Question: Justified? You decide!

Alainax said:

Everyone is missing the main point here...

No matter which player is right or wrong.. what did that poor wee Sapphire ever do to deserve to be killed

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So so true here! But then again just think of that poor thing living out a life with a pirate? Is life worth hell?

btw this post should move to taming.. taming a pet is not a space issue...

Xane said:

Your are right we do love shooting and sometimes taunting in space (...) So your MS operator talks some shit in chat to NVE and NVE replies with lasers(why would you expect anything less?) ultimately leading to a delayed flight

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Let's make this straight: If you "talk shit" it's a part of what you love doing in space; but if a mothership pilot does it, it's your full right to delay a flight because of it?

Xane said:

By the action of the MS owner we would also assume they're not in a hurry and have all day(that's what they say most of the time when engaging us).

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Well, the trips I've been on and that was delayed was on scheduled runs, and the schedule is posted on the website of the service. If you delay a ship that is stated on a schedule, I think it's fairly safe to assume you will delay a ship with passengers.

aia said:

Let's make this straight: If you "talk shit" it's a part of what you love doing in space; but if a mothership pilot does it, it's your full right to delay a flight because of it?

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I can not talk about recently delayed flights cause Normandie just hasnt been delayed for close to two years now, however a good advise for any pilot of any ship out there is to never ever 'talk' in space channel or local channel to a pirate. By talking you make things personal while piracy isnt a personal thing but a matter of 'business'.
If you get attacked you deal with it silently and mercilessly - if you engage in conversation then because you want to make it personal for whatever purpose.

Back in 2012-2013 when pirates still dared to attack the Normandie their purpose of attack wasnt to loot something but to delay flights often and long enough to make it inconvenient - their approach back then was to message various mothership owners with the offer to pay ransom so ships could fly past without being attacked.
However to my knowledge no shipowner ever payed ransom - their method to 'control' space failed.
However often enough they were successfull looting passengers traveling with other motherships which funded their continued campaign of delaying flights.
Over time most ships grew stronger and it became more expensive for pirates to continue with blowing up other ships to loot the rare passengers who happened to not log out in time and attacks stopped on the high si ships first and later also on some medium si ships (60-80k).

Attacking ships to have an impact on their service seems to me much the same as killing a rare pet and then asking the 'pirate' in question to pay for a tamed one.
Split morale if its done in space but felt unfairly treated planetside.

In regards to Xane i have to say that he is one of very few pirates in space who already went for a fair fight back before motherships got their rear gun turret and that he shoots more then he talks which is 'refreshing' in the 'beta' pvp that we have in space.
However to think that you can expect from people who dont know you to treat you fairly and to ignore a soc tag which has a reputation for harassing other players consisting of
- 'shit' talking
- delaying
- exploiting 'speed', 'range' (attacking from a range that motherships could not retaliate fire) and 'repairs' (many might remember stagger 'dodging' death repairing his quad after being shot and reentering to continue to delay a flight)
- utilizing alt-accounts for purpose of placing 'spies' around spacestations/planetside as well as increasing amount of gunners on pirate mothership dreadnought in the past
- infiltrating mothership/privateer crews or purchasing info from within as well as heading out with other passengers on an atmosphere stop as a 'passenger' to then attempt attacking and looting them right on departure

is in my opinion abit much to ask for.
However aside from the exploiting part none of the above is offboard as its open lootable pvp and attackers as well as defenders will make use of all tools and methods they can.
Anyone running a professional service in such an environment should be fully aware what to expect and to deal with and what to 'ignore' to stay 'professional'.

Things certainly will get alot more 'heated' in lootable space pvp when stackable logged out transport gets removed and the reputation of a soc however it is in space will likely carry on planetside even more.

John B Knight said:

I can not talk about recently delayed flights cause Normandie just hasnt been delayed for close to two years now

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To put it straight out: It was the EFA flights that was delayed, mainly at Rocktropia, but occasionally at Calypso.

I used the flights to have some sightseeing; optimally, I would have 20 minutes of hunting at Nextisland, but pretty much all the times I just wasted 2 hours in space, because pirates delayed the trip so much that the stop at NI was cut down and so was it at other planets. Also, as the schedule was wrecked, I didn't have 100% knowledge anymore of how long I would be able to stay on the planet. Unfortunately, at that time, the mothership pilots didn't always give timely information about when summon was about to come (so I could end my hunt just in time to go to storage and put loots there before getting pulled up). Naturally, once a ship has been delayed more than say 10 minutes, this would apply.

The reason I used EFA a lot at the time was the theoretically schedule, visiting all planets and giving around 20 minutes stay on surface. Well, apparently unless the ship was delayed.

Now this kind of roundtrip is harder to do. If I want to visit a planet and come back same day, I have to fly on my own, using quad, one way or the other. I try to use mothership services, but often the schedule simply doesn't work, unless it's a "one way trip" and the reason I go is not to be on another planet because of an event and I want to be there when it starts.

As for Xane, I dont' have any bad experience from in space, or at least I can't remember it.

But again, the society do carry a reputation, and as far as I know, there has been no public statement about those in it who have used less orthodox methods to gain advantages in space, so indirectly supporting those who did.

As a member of the general community, I also note that pirates took place on the "defender's" side, when there was a general effort to see if it was possible, if everyone worked together, to claim a land area.

John B Knight said:

...good advise for any pilot of any ship out there is to never ever 'talk' in space channel or local channel to a pirate. By talking you make things personal while piracy isnt a personal thing but a matter of 'business'.

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This is good advise I hardly ever talk in space chat but am always watching and being amused by the chatter up there .

back on topic.

Xane, even though I dont place you in the same "class" as some of the other members of your soc ,this is Karma for you . The EU player base is very reputation biased.

wrong or un justified , possibly.
The same thing happens in other games too for hunter pets.
the fix ( which will never be applied) make the rares only spawn in lootable PVP.

SoReal said:

The same thing happens in other games too for hunter pets.
the fix ( which will never be applied) make the rares only spawn in lootable PVP.

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As I wrote in another post, the problem Xane got, is a simular problem that occasionally happens in PVP; that a hunter is tanking a mob (ie Leviathan), and someone comes by, kills the hunter, finishes the mob and claims the loot. As I think this is bad (killing someone to take their mob), I also think that what happened to Xane is bad.

Maybe different causes though. For someone who kills a hunter and takes the mob it can be economic; and someone killing Xane's pet it could be someone who is frustrated over pirates in space and sees the opportunity to get back. Theoretically, it could have been someone losing 500 ped to pirates, and now sees the chance to even if not get the peds back, get the feeling that they at least cost "the pirates" 500 ped.

Now to see the next level on it, I wonder how long it will happen until someone who is taming one of the rare hogglos will be shot in the back and the hogglo taken over. And then, possibly, the one who was killed returns to the hogglo and takes revenge.

As for people killing mobs about to be tamed, it's been around as long as there has been pets, even back in VU9 at stable outside port atlantis. Often beginners who just got their first opalo who was a bit too triggerhappy.

John B Knight said:

If you get attacked you deal with it silently and mercilessly ...

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It's always a pleasure to see a real professional at work. Respect!

On topic, the poll clearly shows what we already know: majority of EU playerbase (just like with any other MMO) doesn't really care much about the finesses of ethics. Keep it simple, judge by the (soc) label, problem solved.
Better take it as "rules of the game" and adapt.

Xane said:

Your are right we do love shooting and sometimes taunting in space....and we can take it we also chose to immediately dish it right back out. So your MS operator talks some shit in chat to NVE and NVE replies with lasers(why would you expect anything less?) ultimately leading to a delayed flight and you don't place all the blame on the MS operator? It's really NVE's fault for allowing themselves to be called out?

You do know that we don't have access to the guest list and have no idea who is or isn't on board. By the action of the MS owner we would also assume they're not in a hurry and have all day(that's what they say most of the time when engaging us).

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but you said this above:
"In regards to the MS warp delay thing, yeah that is something that we do sometimes(me included) but it is always because of something the MS Owner/Pilot is doing to us. "
I took that to mean you intentionally did things to delay the warp. Shooting a ship after they are talking smack to you is one thing, but doing things to just delay the warp - well you don't need to know who is on board - at that point it's on you. You choose how you respond to their actions. This is nearly the same as the situation posed in the OP. It's a thin line - but so similar I feel it can't be argued that one situation is right and the other is wrong.
I'm sure you know the difference between shooting a MS and shooting them just to delay their warp.

i don't have any personal issues with any NVE members, but i think you can't expect anything else as a member of a very well known pirate soc, which fucked around with nearly everyone who ever was flying in space.

if you don't want to be treated this way, i suggest you find some other soc to join - problem solved!

personally i think its nearly a wonder that harassment like this isn't happening more often to NVE

just my

DavinFelth said:

but you said this above:
"In regards to the MS warp delay thing, yeah that is something that we do sometimes(me included) but it is always because of something the MS Owner/Pilot is doing to us. "
I took that to mean you intentionally did things to delay the warp. Shooting a ship after they are talking smack to you is one thing, but doing things to just delay the warp - well you don't need to know who is on board - at that point it's on you. You choose how you respond to their actions. This is nearly the same as the situation posed in the OP. It's a thin line - but so similar I feel it can't be argued that one situation is right and the other is wrong.
I'm sure you know the difference between shooting a MS and shooting them just to delay their warp.

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To DavinFelth and aia:

Yes I have to admit that when we chose to attack a MS for whatever reason profit or grief, in addition to the direct negative impact it has on the Pilot/Owner there is also a negative impact on the passengers which have nothing to do with the conflict most of the time. I guess you could consider them collateral damage. Still I think it's pretty obvious there is a big difference between attacking a MS you have a problem with and Killing a rare pet of someone you don't know because they are friends with someone you don't like.

Let me also point out that fact the Northern Stray Titan didn't kill my pet because someone else killed his pet. He killed my pet because someone from my soc beat his girlfriend in a taming race. This isn't Karma. This is caca.

Xane said:

Let me also point out that fact the Northern Stray Titan didn't kill my pet because someone else killed his pet. He killed my pet because someone from my soc beat his girlfriend in a taming race. This isn't Karma. This is caca.

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"A taming Race" could also be looked at as Mob Stealing. I guess it's all in the way you look at it.

Sionkiewicz said:

"A taming Race" could also be looked at as Mob Stealing. I guess it's all in the way you look at it.

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I wasn't there(kinda my whole point) so I can't say whether it was mob stealing or tame racing, the two are not synonymous, there is a difference. In either case why kill the pet, no one killed his??? I figured out why he really did it btw but I was hoping one of the clever people here would have keyed in on it and commented....

Xane said:

You can call it stealing if you want.....not very accurate but that's fine. Whatever you want to call it there's no denying what the motivation is for doing it. Whereas if there was no possibility of me gaining anything and only you losing something and I still chose to kill you then that would in fact make me an ass wipe. But that's not what going on here.

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Just let this end now. Yes MA really needs to fix this so we no longer can do this and it is not fair but....

For you it was all justified and all should do it again. Here you are always backing MA's ways as the right way when it comes to pirates and all..yet you cry here with MA's ways and rules say it's not fair.

Sionkiewicz said:

Did not vote in poll.. consider it useless in this situation..

If you associate with a (crowd, group, gang, click, etc..) publicly then you represent that group (be it good or bad). It really doesn't matter if your society doesn't work that way. That is the way society works. People view you by the company you keep.

Now.. Would I have done the same in that situation? Probably not.. might have made some snide remark or something but I wouldn't have killed the mob out from under the guy.

But then again, I kinda care about how my actions are viewed and the company I keep.

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Well said my sentiments exactly

Just Saying

There was a pig and a drunk laying in the gutter.

Someone walked by and said "you can judge someone by the company they keep"

Upon hearing this the pig got up and walked away

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OZtwo said:

Just let this end now. Yes MA really needs to fix this so we no longer can do this and it is not fair but....

For you it was all justified and all should do it again. Here you are always backing MA's ways as the right way when it comes to pirates and all..yet you cry here with MA's ways and rules say it's not fair.

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That's it in a nutshell.

And I do know that hitting a MS and killing a tameable mob is different.. but I don't agree it's a BIG difference. Both instances people are getting F-ed with and don't like it. One avatar doing something to another that they don't want. Pirate logic I encounter is that it is allowed in the game system - so do it. Nothing personal. Well think about that twice after you have encountered something doing something to you that you didn't like.

Do on to others....

Xane said:

I wasn't there(kinda my whole point) so I can't say whether it was mob stealing or tame racing, the two are not synonymous, there is a difference.

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Xane said:

In either case why kill the pet, no one killed his??? I figured out why he really did it btw but I was hoping one of the clever people here would have keyed in on it and commented....

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I think almost everyone here knows why he killed it.. The part you don't seem to get is no one sees a problem with it based on the company you keep (your Soc). You very well may be a good guy and honest in how you conduct yourself but I would look at you with that moniker over your head and think "He's an asshole".


And I think we all know what your Soc is famous for...

Xane said:

Let me also point out that fact the Northern Stray Titan didn't kill my pet because someone else killed his pet. He killed my pet because someone from my soc beat his girlfriend in a taming race. This isn't Karma. This is caca.

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Ah, that was interesting.

Do you know who initially started taming that other mob? Was it your socmate or the girlfriend?

Just entered space, a little trip to RT!
Pirate shot me down, just leaving save zone (no loot), and gues what Soc.

LOL

Alainax said:

Everyone is missing the main point here...

No matter which player is right or wrong.. what did that poor wee Sapphire ever do to deserve to be killed

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it was stubborn and refused to be tamed on first attempt

DavinFelth said:

That's it in a nutshell.

And I do know that hitting a MS and killing a tameable mob is different.. but I don't agree it's a BIG difference. Both instances people are getting F-ed with and don't like it. One avatar doing something to another that they don't want. Pirate logic I encounter is that it is allowed in the game system - so do it. Nothing personal. Well think about that twice after you have encountered something doing something to you that you didn't like.

Do on to others....

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I'm going to try and end this thread with a reply to you because I think your post has the sentiments of most here.

DavinFelth said:

And I do know that hitting a MS and killing a tameable mob is different.. but I don't agree it's a BIG difference.

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You say it's not a big difference but I say it's a huge difference! To say that the two are almost the same because in both cases someone didn't like what happened to them means you are purposely overlooking the consequences of the two. Which is in most cases what makes one more worse than the other.

DavinFelth said:

Pirate logic I encounter is that it is allowed in the game system - so do it. Nothing personal. Well think about that twice after you have encountered something doing something to you that you didn't like.

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YES! It is not personal. Pirates are nothing more than PVP'ers for profit. Everyone who enters into space agrees to the terms by entering. It's basically a competition/battle where some win and some lose. If you get shot down you lose, if you make it to your destination unharmed you win. There is no issue of morality or right and wrong here. No one is forced to enter space and certainly no has to enter space in a personal ship now days. So pirates are in fact "doing unto others..." because I would expect that if someone thought I was carrying loot, as is most of the time , they would attack me and I welcome it.

***WHINE ALERT***
I did not deserve what happened to me. To those that say I did because of my associations I say your are in fact the ones not following the golden rule. You are following what I will call the bronze rule.

Bronze Rule:
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"*

*As long as you are in favour of the person otherwise do unto them as you believe they deserve.

MODERATORS:
Please move this thread over to the taming section as it is clearly more about taming than space and it will get more exposure

Xane said:

YES! It is not personal. Pirates are nothing more than PVP'ers for profit.

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At least we are getting somewhere here and why MA really needs to look at this and fix it all.

For new players remember:

Profit in this game means: withdraw the money. Unlike other game where this would just be a fun shoot and steal and nothing big will come of it...here they are hoping to take your money and withdraw it as fast as they can. And why lootable PvP just can not be allowed in a RCE base game.

Xane said:

I'm sorry but reasons why PVP should'nt be allowed in an RCE is because people withdraw money? Or people take others money and withdraw? Isn't that why most of us play...to withdraw some day? Where do you think any of the profits you end up with come from, the ped tree?

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Thank you. Exactly my point.

In RL I work for my money and I really do not want a robber to stick a gun in my face and say 'give me all your money'

In a RCE Game I deposit my money and really do not want it stolen by others.

See there is a law for this and what's odd is as of yet there is no law for it in a RCE base game due to the simple fact that there are no other RCE based games to have it have really any issue as of yet. So many simply do not understand this and it's just crazy and sad so many will debate over this.

But it's also useless debating this to a professional pirate because he would, in RL, justify taking my money by saying 'you didn't have to be here for me to take the money?'

Maybe one day you will see it..but then again..we don't know what you really do in RL?

OZtwo said:

At least we are getting somewhere here and why MA really needs to look at this and fix it all.

For new players remember:

Profit in this game means: withdraw the money. Unlike other game where this would just be a fun shoot and steal and nothing big will come of it...here they are hoping to take your money and withdraw it as fast as they can. And why lootable PvP just can not be allowed in a RCE base game.

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I'm sorry but reasons why PVP should'nt be allowed in an RCE is because people withdraw money? Or people take others money and withdraw? Isn't that why most of us play...to withdraw some day? Where do you think any of the profits you end up with come from, the ped tree?

Xane said:

I did not deserve what happened to me.

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Doesn't the same apply for people who fly in space without loot? (Just a parallel - I do not say it was justified to kill a mob that someone was taming.)

Xane said:

I'm sorry but reasons why PVP should'nt be allowed in an RCE is because people withdraw money? Or people take others money and withdraw?

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One reason to be careful about pvp, is that there are some people who are griefers; who would do things like repeated killing or camp revivals just because they get the "spark" of knowing that they are annoying other people. I remember a post here somewhere, about a pirate that his greatest joy was when he had killed someone, and that he enjoyed putting their loot in the trade terminal at the same time as he saw the shot down repair his ship and assuming the shot down person see his killer stand by trade terminal.

The other reason is exploits (abuse) for personal gain, and this perticularily applies to a RCE where all profits can be withdrawn into IRL money. The one I personally have come across has been the speeders. The speeders have all belonged to same society, I can add. Another thing, that (for us players) of course is hard to prove, is alt accounts. Let's say a pirate who loots other players with one account, and with another account runs a mothership service. Or (maybe) simply have one avatar in space and another avatar in pvp3 (not unreasonable - you don't need ubergear or 300 HP in space). I don't think all pirates are alt, but I do have a thought in the back in my head that there are a few who are, and use alts to keep their "space" and "planet" lives apart.

I should say I respect you in that way (obvisouly you're not an alt).

Xane said:

Isn't that why most of us play...to withdraw some day? Where do you think any of the profits you end up with come from, the ped tree?

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I play to have fun, to sum it up. The hope of withdrawing I pretty much I never had. Being realistic, in a zero sum game, regardless how do you it, not all players can withdraw. I've one of those who keep depositing to keep playing... and when I spend my PEDs, I try to support those who also are in it for fun rather than sheer profit to withdraw. I would rather see the money I deposit in the game go to development, rather than being instantly withdrawn by someone whos only "reputation is PED earning" and will withdraw any PED coming onto PED card.

I'f I'm in a hurry from planet A to planet B, I don't think it's a fun way to spend my IRL time by getting stuck at space station revival, repairing (when I know I'm aobut to be late for an event because of it) and having to spend time flying out again. Or sit in a mothership or privateer because warp has been aborted several times in a row.

The intent of space is pretty cool, with the epic space battles and all that. The problem is, again, the layout with campable revivals, and that there are pirates who won't think twice about using unorthodox methods in battle just to get PEDs to withdraw. In one space battle, I heard of one of the pirates stepping out of his quad and start to repair it... Things that are McCormick style can be cool if it's done out-of-battle, but if it's done in the front of a mothership crew it looks rather provocative. There is a mindset "we are pirates, we are outlaws we don't need to follow the rules", but if you think a step further, do pirates who break obvious game mechanics to get profit expect to use the other side of the game mechanics to withdraw the PEDs they have gotten?

A business idea like, acquiring a privateer, grind it down to minimal SI, and use it to summon hundreds of people who probably didn't know what space was about and in some cases just clicked box by accident - - shooting down with minimal SI and leaving beginners stranded at space station, is that what developers indended when they had the vision about "epic space battles"? Or is it a way of showing, "we don't care what other say as long as we get PEDs"?

aia said:

Doesn't the same apply for people who fly in space without loot? (Just a parallel - I do not say it was justified to kill a mob that someone was taming.)

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No it doesn't apply, I used the word "deserve" in the context of punishment. People choosing to fly through a pvp zone(carrying or empty) assume and agree to the risk involved. If they get popped it's simply them losing a battle not a punishment. Some would say if you get looted in space you deserve it for being stupid but really the reward was just worth the risk for them that's all.

aia said:

One reason to be careful about pvp, is that there are some people who are griefers; who would do things like repeated killing or camp revivals just because they get the "spark" of knowing that they are annoying other people. I remember a post here somewhere, about a pirate that his greatest joy was when he had killed someone, and that he enjoyed putting their loot in the trade terminal at the same time as he saw the shot down repair his ship and assuming the shot down person see his killer stand by trade terminal.

The other reason is exploits (abuse) for personal gain, and this perticularily applies to a RCE where all profits can be withdrawn into IRL money. The one I personally have come across has been the speeders. The speeders have all belonged to same society, I can add. Another thing, that (for us players) of course is hard to prove, is alt accounts. Let's say a pirate who loots other players with one account, and with another account runs a mothership service. Or (maybe) simply have one avatar in space and another avatar in pvp3 (not unreasonable - you don't need ubergear or 300 HP in space). I don't think all pirates are alt, but I do have a thought in the back in my head that there are a few who are, and use alts to keep their "space" and "planet" lives apart.

I should say I respect you in that way (obvisouly you're not an alt).

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There will always be an exploit or bug that give individuals an advantage in any type of game and is unavoidable. These people should be reported and dealt with accordingly and the exploit patched. This is just a matter of the game moving forward with progress or development as you said. I assume you know I was the pirate that said he likes selling his targets loot in the space station? Yes It's still true...I like to compete and win and be rewarded. And when they start yelling about it makes the experience more fun because I know they agreed to the risk and are pissed they lost, their tears still fuel my quad.

aia said:

I play to have fun, to sum it up. The hope of withdrawing I pretty much I never had. Being realistic, in a zero sum game, regardless how do you it, not all players can withdraw. I've one of those who keep depositing to keep playing... and when I spend my PEDs, I try to support those who also are in it for fun rather than sheer profit to withdraw. I would rather see the money I deposit in the game go to development, rather than being instantly withdrawn by someone whos only "reputation is PED earning" and will withdraw any PED coming onto PED card.

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I don't think pirate withdraw rate is any higher than other profession.

aia said:

I'f I'm in a hurry from planet A to planet B, I don't think it's a fun way to spend my IRL time by getting stuck at space station revival, repairing (when I know I'm aobut to be late for an event because of it) and having to spend time flying out again. Or sit in a mothership or privateer because warp has been aborted several times in a row.

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I would say to you: Knowing that you have to potential to be shot down and delayed should be factored in when deciding when to leave for a time based event.

aia said:

The intent of space is pretty cool, with the epic space battles and all that. The problem is, again, the layout with campable revivals, and that there are pirates who won't think twice about using unorthodox methods in battle just to get PEDs to withdraw. In one space battle, I heard of one of the pirates stepping out of his quad and start to repair it... Things that are McCormick style can be cool if it's done out-of-battle, but if it's done in the front of a mothership crew it looks rather provocative. There is a mindset "we are pirates, we are outlaws we don't need to follow the rules", but if you think a step further, do pirates who break obvious game mechanics to get profit expect to use the other side of the game mechanics to withdraw the PEDs they have gotten?

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I can't speak for the actions of everyone, sometimes an individual is just in the wrong.

Here is a solution.
Lock the mob to the first person to damage it then once no further damage after a minute it's unlocked and ready for another avatar to attempt to tame.

In regards to the harassment (which it is) no it isn't justified. Unfortunately there is a lot of that in space and people tend to hold grudges. I personally don't give two shits what society you are in. If you try to delay a warp when I am on board I will gladly shoot your ass down and its exactly what all properly crewed MS's should do. If you go into pvp lootable space in a quad/sleipnir expect to be shot down, and if you have loot that's your own damn fault.

pontfirebird73 said:

If you go into pvp lootable space in a quad/sleipnir expect to be shot down, and if you have loot that's your own damn fault.

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If I don't lock my bike when I go shopping for groceries and I return and my bike is gone, it's my fault too?

If a girl wears a short skirt and she gets !!!!!, it's her fault?

No matter how you turn it or twist it, the items are yours. You payed for it. That the system caters for online theft, doesn't mean the thief is not a thief. The thief is a thief and there's no way in Hell I will ever see it differently. I welcome all your negreps.

Spawn said:

If I don't lock my bike when I go shopping for groceries and I return and my bike is gone, it's my fault too?

If a girl wears a short skirt and she gets !!!!!, it's her fault?

No matter how you turn it or twist it, the items are yours. You payed for it. That the system caters for online theft, doesn't mean the thief is not a thief. The thief is a thief and there's no way in Hell I will ever see it differently. I welcome all your negreps.

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Permission has been granted to any individual who wants to shoot others in PVP LOOTABLE SPACE. MA makes the laws in this digital world and if the law says you can kill and loot people than its legal. Now, I'm not saying that makes it right but there are warnings when you enter space about it and there are precautions you can take to avoid/ minimize problems in space (taking a MS warp for example). The same way that there are precautions IRL to prevent your bike being stolen or being sexually assaulted.

TLDR; Space abuser got rekt on land? Too bad, u had it coming. No sympathy and 110% justified just cause u are pirate.

Mindark = God
they create the universe.
God doesn't make rules, people do.

There is a warning before you enter space.

There's also warnings near trains to beware of pickpockets. That doesn't make it legal for pickpockets to steal.