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To All Gaming Developers (In and out of EU) : Stop giving us Eye Candy!

WhiningSkeptic said:
Your post smells more 1900 than any of mine as you argue that anything outside the normal is bad (even though I know that wasn't your point).

And of course there is a normal. As in normal, as in 68%. Your use of the word normal is more like "morally acceptable" which was not my intent with the word, which I also wrote, which makes me think your misinterpretation was done purposefully.
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Not purposefully, simply missed your post explaining your poor choice of words, thats my bad, im sure you can understand how your argument would sound outdated if one would miss that post. Never the less my apologize.

Besides that i fail to understand how my post would venture in anyway to describe the absence of normalcy as bad, quite the opposite i described it as "the spice of life" or in plainer words, what makes life worth living but i digress.

Cheers
Zweshi
 
melander said:
Not purposefully, simply missed your post explaining your poor choice of words, thats my bad, im sure you can understand how your argument would sound outdated if one would miss that post. Never the less my apologize.

Besides that i fail to understand how my post would venture in anyway to describe the absence of normalcy as bad, quite the opposite i described it as "the spice of life" or in plainer words, what makes life worth living.

Cheers
Zweshi
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Perhaps I should edit the posts, as they do sound (first one in particular) a bit... Yeah.

Well, it would depend on the amount of stretching in argumentation you are willing to do; I had some nice circular logic mad up to show how easy one can take away the truth one wants to, but since there was a misunderstanding, just ignore that. Basically the argument is was going to make was that by forcing everything socially and morally acceptable into your definition of normal, you'd only leave the unacceptable outside it. After that, one could just mix up the "normals" and make it look like you are saying a ton of things you are not, much like Ben did in his long reply to me.
 
As the minority voice here I'd really like to reply to what Skeptic has been saying and elaborate a little on why I think Ben has a point.

Firstly there's barely a day in EU that goes by when I don't get some kind of comment or action from what is clearly a male gamer that could be classed as sexual harassment. This is something that year by year is getting worse in games. I've been gaming well over a decade now and I have definitely noticed an increase in this sort of behaviour. I've also noticed a slight increase irl but only among my generation and younger.

Skeptic, to address you specifically it sorta feels like you're missing the point slightly. It may well not be 'normal' in your opinion for a male to find eye candy and the way women are portrayed in games a turn on or whatever but it's leading to it, and it definitely appears to be encouraging men to treat women as if that's all they are on a much wider basis. In short it really is a problem, and a big one.
 
MarieWoodell said:
As the minority voice here I'd really like to reply to what Skeptic has been saying and elaborate a little on why I think Ben has a point.

Firstly there's barely a day in EU that goes by when I don't get some kind of comment or action from what is clearly a male gamer that could be classed as sexual harassment. This is something that year by year is getting worse in games. I've been gaming well over a decade now and I have definitely noticed an increase in this sort of behaviour. I've also noticed a slight increase irl but only among my generation and younger.

Skeptic, to address you specifically it sorta feels like you're missing the point slightly. It may well not be 'normal' in your opinion for a male to find eye candy and the way women are portrayed in games a turn on or whatever but it's leading to it, and it definitely appears to be encouraging men to treat women as if that's all they are on a much wider basis. In short it really is a problem, and a big one.
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Regarding your first point; That is terrible and I have no reason to doubt you.

Your second point however, I question. As a normal adult you should be able to have proper values. Failure to do so is, as far as I can tell, more and result of poor upbringing, poor morals in culture and religion at large than video games.

Surely, men can (very much like women, reference; any magazine aimed at women) objectify women. However, in have yet to meet and know anyone who lives by such values which is why I have a hard time believing the problem is as large as suggested in any well developed country.

Now, to clarify my point; I'm talking pure sexism here, not equality where the problem is much easier for me to acknowledge as I've seen it first hand.

There probably is a ton of studies made on the topic and I'll be happy to look some up to get a better picture of it.

Ben builds his points on nonsense though, and whether he is right or not, such poor reasoning shouldn't be embellished. Surely, women get proper personas in games and movies where it is needed, this view of his merely puts his lack of general knowledge on display.

So to sum it up; I fail to acknowledge games like EU contributing to people having immoral values regarding women, but I'll happily change my opinion on the matter if some proper science is presented.
 
So.... Ben is insulting both all the programmers in the world and Japan in same thread. :silly2:

To suggest the Japans problem with a low birth-rate is a problem cause by "unsocial" men and odd subcultures is just stupid. First of all, most of the countries in the "rich" world have problems with low birth-rate, both in Asia and Europe and have or would have a declining population if it was not for immigration. Do you know what Japan have very, very little of? Immigration.

Japan have also changed over the years, more women now want to educated them-self and have a working career of their own instead to being home and taking care of the family. So they wait longer before getting married and have children. As some of you also know Japan have had a long time period of economic stagnation, not exactly a good environment for families to create families. These factors means a lower birth-rate and a lower birth-rate with a very low immigration leads to the problem of a declining population.

So Ben can throw the the idea that "unsocial men" is the cause of the population decline in Japan in a trash-bin close to him.
 
billairboy said:
So.... Ben is insulting both all the programmers in the world and Japan in same thread. :silly2:

To suggest the Japans problem with a low birth-rate is a problem cause by "unsocial" men and odd subcultures is just stupid. First of all, most of the countries in the "rich" world have problems with low birth-rate, both in Asia and Europe and have or would have a declining population if it was not for immigration. Do you know what Japan have very, very little of? Immigration.

Japan have also changed over the years, more women now want to educated them-self and have a working career of their own instead to being home and taking care of the family. So they wait longer before getting married and have children. As some of you also know Japan have had a long time period of economic stagnation, not exactly a good environment for families to create families. These factors means a lower birth-rate and a lower birth-rate with a very low immigration leads to the problem of a declining population.

So Ben can throw the the idea that "unsocial men" is the cause of the population decline in Japan in a trash-bin close to him.
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In Japan there is a natinal Penis-day, and when a woman makes art in the shape of a vagina, she gets arrested.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rrest-vagina-selfie-3d-prints-megumi-igarashi
 
BenCoyote said:
Stop giving us Eye Candy!
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eyecandy.jpg
 
I have a confession to make:

Whenever I see Ben post a thread/post I dont read it, cause its always so looooooooooong :ahh:

Sorry :dunce:
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Ben builds his points on nonsense though, and whether he is right or not, such poor reasoning shouldn't be embellished.
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Ben has used a lot of words to try and say something that could probably be said a lot less and picked on Japan as if it's the route of the problem when it's maybe only a part of it. I think he's also missed that it's causing problems in the younger generations, bit his general message is sound. Having women avatars and npcs in games that are only there for eye candy is increasing sexism amongst our younger, more impressionable kids.

Surely, women get proper personas in games and movies where it is needed, this view of his merely puts his lack of general knowledge on display.
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This bit seems to be where you're thinking is wrong. 1, you sound like you're trying to deny it's a problem and that it's happening. This opinion isn't his alone. There was a massive massive section on this exact topic on Rock Paper Shotgun (the massive pc gaming review site) where the guy running it posted how sick he was of women in games being portrayed this way. It is a huge problem in most games and it seems to be getting worse not better. It is most definitely you and not Ben who hasn't done their homework here.

And I won't even address the where it's needed bit ( surely it's always necessary when portraying people to not potray a woman as nothing but a body to be jerked over - every woman is more than that)

So to sum it up; I fail to acknowledge games like EU contributing to people having immoral values regarding women, but I'll happily change my opinion on the matter if some proper science is presented.
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Eu isn't anyway near as much of a problem as other games can be, mostly because it doesn't have many developer made characters. At least on Calypso. Rocktropia is another matter all of its own and honestly is a planet that just makes me feel sick if I'm there for more than a few seconds.

Please go look up Rock Paper Shotgun and the piece they did on this issue and all the blatant sexism happening in our game world, then know that the writer received tens of thousands of death threats from men in the gaming world who think it's fine to treat women that way for having spoken up about it.

EDIT: Here's the article I mentioned. I managed to find it once I wasn't posting from my phone
 
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hail, hail this modern world.

 
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