Good eco?

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What's generally considered good eco?

This boggles my mind a bit. It seems like it varies a lot depending on who you ask. A lot of times I see anything at 2.9x be considered good along with defensive costs around 3%.

So what's your take on this? Any experience from logging returns long term?

I believe we had a thread like this not long ago, but didn't manage to dig it up.
 
Anything arround 2.9 is good, a bit up or a bit down doesnt matter that much since you have to shoot a lot to save pecs in that tiny margin.

Bad eco is compensated to some extent in loot, as does good eco. I have heard many times people using imk2 (~3.28 eco) get less average loot than when using any other regular weapon (~2.9X eco).

The higher the eco the slower you lose, you can grind longer and have more chances to hit a good loot.

The lower the eco the faster you lose, you can grind less but if you hit a nice loot your chances are it will be higher than if you were using a good eco combo.

Resembles Quantity vs. Condition in crafting.

That's what I have observed during the years at least, I could be wrong.
 
I believe there is a loot pool (or whatever quacks like loot pool) per mob, and the break-even eco is different for each mob.

If there wasn't, puny hunters would bleed PED at a much faster rate than they do, as typical bottomline eco on 10 HP mobs is 2.42...2.43 or so.

Hence, you don't need to achieve a certain number, you need to be more efficient than others hunting the same mob.

YMMV, of course.
 
Anything arround 2.9 is good, a bit up or a bit down doesnt matter that much since you have to shoot a lot to save pecs in that tiny margin.

Bad eco is compensated to some extent in loot, as does good eco. I have heard many times people using imk2 (~3.28 eco) get less average loot than when using any other regular weapon (~2.9X eco).

The higher the eco the slower you lose, you can grind longer and have more chances to hit a good loot.

The lower the eco the faster you lose, you can grind less but if you hit a nice loot your chances are it will be higher than if you were using a good eco combo.

Resembles Quantity vs. Condition in crafting.

That's what I have observed during the years at least, I could be wrong.

That's interesting.

If someone can get 90% return with 2.9, then someone with 3.190 should be able to fetch 99%. If not, eco is meaningless.

I'm gonna take my Mux 1 out for a spin and see what happens.

Edit: Return numbers taken from thin air just to show an example.
 
it dont change with who you ask , but when you ask , over the time , to balance the system , because some old weapon was very very eco , lets say imk2 , MA when they create L weapon , made them more and more eco.so , player with imk2 are not so eco compare to other , so MA can tweak the return system,witch make average player get better return , without making those with imk2 win on regular basis.
 
Eco to me is not just damage per pec.

Even if you have an imk2 and don't know what you're doing you can be very un-eco.
 

Maybe this image helps you understand what I mean. In red text is what I dont know for sure.

todays_brain_fart_959370.jpg
 
This is good and bad when u ask me.
I think good eco should be better than the avg player eco and i think avg eco today is around 2.9-3.0

2.8 bad
2.9 avg
3.0+ good
 
Ultimately it comes down to how eco all the other players hunt on average - over time you will need a better and better rate to win and sustain in the competition.
There is no set number that will grant you good eco 'forever' but some may do so for many years.

Xpl0jds numbers seem harder to reach then what others may consider good, but you will do better then others if aiming for them.
It will still depend very much on which mobs you hunt with which weapon, as the damage split on some weapons is different and they may do different actual damage to that specific mob compared to another weapon after calculation against that mobs 'armor class'/'defense'.
 
What do the figures 2.9 etc mean?
 
What do the figures 2.9 etc mean?

Damage per pec.

At 2.9, you deal 29,000 damage in 100 ped, at 3,1 you deal 31,000 damage.

Since hunts often end up 500+ ped spent (I fall around 500 but I'm slow and play less than others) it Makes a huge difference.
 
This is good and bad when u ask me.
I think good eco should be better than the avg player eco and i think avg eco today is around 2.9-3.0

2.8 bad
2.9 avg
3.0+ good
Good or bad is relative, depends on the chosen weapon class also. For BLP you can take 0.1 off all these numbers.

Bad eco is compensated to some extent in loot, as does good eco.
I wouldn't mind if this was true...

For a while I've been meaning to test what the cost really is for a bad eco compared with a good eco weapon, how dramatic is it actually, and also to see if there is a noticeable difference in loot. Planning a test run shooting like 100 of the same mobs each with something like ASI-24 (L) vs. Maddox IV (I am lvl 30 blp pistoleer, so one is maxed the other is non-sib). Will be a couple more weeks till I get to it due to rl, but already made me a Perl script to list the exact difference between two inventory snapshots. If someone would like to try this sooner than I can, you can have it I just post the code here.

As for eco beyond 3.0: This is mostly the realm of rare, uber, very expensive items. Everybody is drooling over these if only for the envy factor, but what people fail to see is the big picture: Tying up many thousands of peds in gear means that you can't invest them otherwise where they would earn interest. This lost interest is called opportunity cost in economics and is a factor in your total cost of playing this game. You'll eventually break even if you really play a lot, but I'd think this is beyond the reach for most average players.
 
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One of the biggest impacts is using a weapon that is maxed or near maxed. What's the point of having a good eco weapon when your wasting peds on missed shots? Also when it comes to armor, eco is meaningless if your dodge/evade skill is low. I use a ghost set with mostly 5b plates and the repair bill isn't bad because my evade is pretty high (lvl 30+).
 
The reason I made this thread is because I've become obsessed with eco recently. I tracked it over 10,000 shots and it turned out to be around 3.185 after deducting enhancer costs. The sample size is small but even if I doubled the enhancer costs it would stay above 3.1.

I am now looking to improve it further in an attempt to reach 95+ % tt return but need to know if I'm wasting my time. Next step is upgrades that will cost about 40,000 ped and hopefully nudge me above 3.200 while reducing my defense costs further (currently around 1%).

While I know CLDs would pay me better, I've sort of made this a challenge. However, if my returns won't change accordingly I'd rather play with the double dps but at a lower eco...
 
Damage per pec.

At 2.9, you deal 29,000 damage in 100 ped, at 3,1 you deal 31,000 damage.

Since hunts often end up 500+ ped spent (I fall around 500 but I'm slow and play less than others) it Makes a huge difference.

You would think it should make a big difference but it doesn't :p smilgs kinda proved it with his imk2 log and then foeripper after that. That difference in Eco on his volume in hunting should have been huge but it wasn't. Feel free to try crap Eco and realize that the return is the same but the swings can be a bit bigger.
 
The reason I made this thread is because I've become obsessed with eco recently.
Noticed across several forums ;)
No, I find it very interesting what you're doing and eager to learn from it. I just think if you're really obsessed with eco, then anything less than the total does not count. I mean, what's the point of saving on one side while giving it up on the other.
 
You would think it should make a big difference but it doesn't :p smilgs kinda proved it with his imk2 log and then foeripper after that. That difference in Eco on his volume in hunting should have been huge but it wasn't. Feel free to try crap Eco and realize that the return is the same but the swings can be a bit bigger.

That would suck quite a bit... :(

Isn't smilgs log very green overall though?
 
That would suck quite a bit... :(

Isn't smilgs log very green overall though?

Not before he changed play style around the modmerc purchase. The old logs with imk2 and foe was mostly red.
 
The reason I made this thread is because I've become obsessed with eco recently. I tracked it over 10,000 shots and it turned out to be around 3.185 after deducting enhancer costs. The sample size is small but even if I doubled the enhancer costs it would stay above 3.1.

I am now looking to improve it further in an attempt to reach 95+ % tt return but need to know if I'm wasting my time. Next step is upgrades that will cost about 40,000 ped and hopefully nudge me above 3.200 while reducing my defense costs further (currently around 1%).

While I know CLDs would pay me better, I've sort of made this a challenge. However, if my returns won't change accordingly I'd rather play with the double dps but at a lower eco...

That is your 'headline' eco, before regen and overkill. Count mobs (easier if you have an iron mission and single maturity spawn), calculate how much actual HP you have destroyed, calculate your 'bottomline' eco - you may be surprised.
 
That is your 'headline' eco, before regen and overkill. Count mobs (easier if you have an iron mission and single maturity spawn), calculate how much actual HP you have destroyed, calculate your 'bottomline' eco - you may be surprised.

Surely, that has an impact which is why I now use a finisher. Overkill is insignificant at this point, and regeneration is very small. I rarely see the healthbar doing even one tick.

Nevertheless, that would apply to all players. Since most players don't seem to share my fetish, it should actually work in my advantage. I'll do some tracking though, sounds like a fun project. :)
 
You would think it should make a big difference but it doesn't :p smilgs kinda proved it with his imk2 log and then foeripper after that. That difference in Eco on his volume in hunting should have been huge but it wasn't. Feel free to try crap Eco and realize that the return is the same but the swings can be a bit bigger.
We were discussing weapons eco the other day with a friend and i believe his assessment was right - diff between good eco and bad eco is about 1%

...
 
You should not neglect the damage/sec factor. Mobs regenerates, more or less, so a weapon which does more damage/sec could be more efficient than weapon with higher damage/pec. You also save fap and decay cost if you kill fast and end the battle as quick as you can. So "eco" is not only about damage/pec.
 
You should not neglect the damage/sec factor. Mobs regenerates, more or less, so a weapon which does more damage/sec could be more efficient than weapon with higher damage/pec. You also save fap and decay cost if you kill fast and end the battle as quick as you can. So "eco" is not only about damage/pec.

That's where the defensive costs come in. The higher they are, the more beating you have taken which in turn means the mobs had time to regen.

While I believe 3% often serves as a guideline I try to keep mine below 1% right now. I only heal between mobs and that's only if I get ninjad ninjad, take on a bigger maturity than I should or get one of those awesome quintuple evades...
 
That's where the defensive costs come in. The higher they are, the more beating you have taken which in turn means the mobs had time to regen.

While I believe 3% often serves as a guideline I try to keep mine below 1% right now. I only heal between mobs and that's only if I get ninjad ninjad, take on a bigger maturity than I should or get one of those awesome quintuple evades...

It not only the defense cost that increase with a "slower" kill, you also need to make more hp damage because of the regeneration. So the damage/sec compared to the total hp of the mob is also important, but of course that mostly matters if you are hunting a big hp mob with fast regeneration of hp.
 
It not only the defense cost that increase with a "slower" kill, you also need to make more hp damage because of the regeneration. So the damage/sec compared to the total hp of the mob is also important, but of course that mostly matters if you are hunting a big hp mob with fast regeneration of hp.

That's what I tried to say ;)

The higher the defensive costs, the higher offensive costs due to regen (unless you tank and just don't care).
 
We were discussing weapons eco the other day with a friend and i believe his assessment was right - diff between good eco and bad eco is about 1%

...

1% sounds high IMO. I think its the same (logical way of programming return). If you think about how you can program return so it's hard to cheat the system the best thing is to set a fixed return compared to your spendings. That way if you find a way to reduce cost of kill (for example trapping) it doesn't really matter cause since your input is low your loot will also be low. I believe there is a hard coded fixed return over average of X spent. This doesn't sound far off when I compare my hunting with imk2/modmk2/modmerc/modml and the more uneco end with jungle stalker/x5/cb26 and so on.
 
Many people claim diffrent Dpp would yeald diffrent ammounts of return.

That is something i refuse too believe and the minute i see any serious proof for that there is no point trying too achieve any thing in here.

As usall volymes are way too low and the parameters for how far loot takes you from baseline is unknown.

Hunt same single mob for 10h per day for atleast 6 months with same setup while tracking every single loot ever gotten.
From that you can work out the parameter for how much loot the avarage mob will give you.
From there its all about maximizing ammount mobs killed for same cost as before.
 
Somewhat off-topic:

I recently tested returns on caperon mature. I had no armor decay on any of the kills.
 
Last edited:
Somewhat off-topic:

I recently tested returns on caperon mature. I had no armor decay on any of the kills. I used a long range SIB maxed rifle with accuracy enhancers and earth shocker. When I did a critical hit I would crit in the region of 300 damage. I wrote down the loot from every caperon, and I categorised the kills when I crit once, twice or three times on the mob.

Normal loots ranged from 80pec to 500pec and the average was around 290pec. I compared the loots when I crit twice or three times, to when I did not crit, and the average loot remained the same at 290pec; even though the cost to kill was far lower when I crit twice or three times. So, loot, in my opinion, is usually based on the hp of the mob killed, not the cost to kill.

However, the difficulty is working out how a multiplied loot is generated: if it is random or related to ped spent etc.

Thank you this was kinda my point i was trying to make i post before you.
The difficulty is also working out what DPP MA are basing their 90% return on.... Matters alot if its 3.1dpp or 2.9
 
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