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What do you make of this...... (Mobtrain)

San said:
I thought, in pvp it is explicitly NOT harassment to attack and disrupt other players, since that is the whole idea. A mob train is an effective weapon. Did MA actually say at one point they don't like it? Then what stops them from securing the rig with turrets.
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It is, just a few noobs who found the new rig that may be afking are pissed off that they can't get free oil without working for it.
 
It's all about style.

A well done one-timer under most scenarios is funny as hell.

But do it more than once, or to harass, and you are lame.

End of story.

That's the rule, and that's how it shall be.
 
I fail to see how that's any different from shooting, or shooting the same person more than once. Simply a choice of weapon, what you do with it has the same effect. It happens all the time, any player who is stronger than another one will assert power and territory until he had enough or yet a stronger one arrives. Mob train is about the only way to get back at them if you haven't the sheer muscle. So someone doesn't always get to dominate at will and complains about "noobs not wanting to work for it"? Er, no comment.

This discussion must have been had a hundred times at nauseam. I'm just trying to find that bit where MA actually really said no to it and can't locate it. Have they or have they not? I'm not interested in what anyone thinks it should be from their lofty vantage point. From the horse's mouth is all that counts.
 
San said:
I fail to see how that's any different from shooting, or shooting the same person more than once. Simply a choice of weapon, what you do with it has the same effect. It happens all the time, any player who is stronger than another one will assert power and territory until he had enough or yet a stronger one arrives. Mob train is about the only way to get back at them if you haven't the sheer muscle. So someone doesn't always get to dominate at will and complains about "noobs not wanting to work for it"? Er, no comment.

This discussion must have been had a hundred times at nauseam. I'm just trying to find that bit where MA actually really said no to it and can't locate it. Have they or have they not? I'm not interested in what anyone thinks it should be from their lofty vantage point. From the horse's mouth is all that counts.
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make a support case, ask them this...

"Am I allowed to run mob trains on the people at the rig as often as I like?"

post results here, go ahead and clear it up for everybody! :yup:

EDIT: in fact, I have done just that already years ago, here are my results...

2011-10-28 06:53 You wrote:

I was under the impression that using a vehicle to create a Mob Train and swarm other players is a violation of the EULA/ToU...

If it is a violation, please point out to me which category it falls under! I am unclear which part of these agreements prohibits the use of Mob Trains!

thanks!
2011-10-29 20:18 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your inquiry. Using vehicles to run mobs into participants is considered to be harassment, and deliberately ruining the Entropia Universe experience for other participants is against the Terms of Use §8.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support
2011-10-29 20:28 You wrote:

does that count in PvP areas, such as at the Oil Rig?...

Please clarify, is it a violation of the EULA/ToU only outside of PvP, or is it always a violation no matter where/when anyone runs mob trains on other players?

thanks again!
2011-10-30 15:12 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your inquiry. Mob training against an avatar intentionally and consistently can be considered as harassment.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support
 
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Once upon a time one avatar could shoot and kill another avatar in the shop can when they were standing at auction and then run outside and revival kill them over and over until they logged out and cried on the forums and everyone lived happily ever after, until they changed it to carebear, then the griefers cried on the forum and everybody else lived happily ever after :laugh:
 
Thanks for the clarification, Tycoon.
 
Asking support is like asking ......... Well..... Yeah.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-the-mob-trains!!!/page2&highlight=Mob+trains

I think Kim said something a long the lines of "Simply put, if it happens in a pvp area I couldn't care less." and if I remember correctly, support also said something along these lines once or twice before.

That's the real issue with support, you will get a different answer from almost everyone of them. I'm not saying they are bad, but they need to get everyone on the same page. Cohesive support would help with some of these threads. :yup:

Edit it was in the same thread that Kim said that, even after all the support tickets presented. I don't know, it's been here from the beginning, I think it will be here for a lot longer. :scratch2:
 
Nothing wrong there, just a mob train and it is PvP. Its not a safe area with turrents so stop whining!
 
Nor Alien said:
...
I think Kim said something a long the lines of "Simply put, if it happens in a pvp area I couldn't care less." and if I remember correctly, support also said something along these lines once or twice before.

...
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That was in 2011, only shortly after Kim took on the Calypso dev role.

In 2013, he said:
Kim|Calypso said:
... everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development.

...
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So, it would seem his position shifted somewhat in that time, to the extent that he was considering introduction of some preventative measures.
 
Serica said:
That was in 2011, only shortly after Kim took on the Calypso dev role.

In 2013, he said:


So, it would seem his position shifted somewhat in that time, to the extent that he was considering introduction of some preventative measures.
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Yeah I thought as much, but couldn't find anything afterwards.

Still I think after this amount of time, this issue isn't high on there list. Maybe more of these threads, it may become more important. :scratch2:
 
Nor Alien said:
Yeah I thought as much, but couldn't find anything afterwards.

Still I think after this amount of time, this issue isn't high on there list. Maybe more of these threads, it may become more important. :scratch2:
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We can't forget that MA does mob trains all the time at twin peaks. Kind of sucks that they don't do it in pvp..but well kind of shows where they do stand here.
 
"Originally Posted by Kim|Calypso
... everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. "

It would seem to me that this statement was meant in out-of-pvp context. Otherwise it would sound like just another opinion wrapped in a generalization from the standard toolbox of logical fallacies used to win arguments, which feels a bit unworthy of the source it came from. I gather that a hard rule still cannot be derived from previous quotes of MindArk employees, only a trend or caution leaning against the method.

But the logic remains questionable because it can always be seen from different sides. For a player with more skill points, stronger guns and armour (all of which simply translates into more money invested) it is also "too easy" to take out inferior ones at will and for as long as he wants prevent them from doing whatever they wanted to do. They can do it again and again and nobody tells them it is wrong. This part of the game is designed that way and disallowing anyone coming up with a creative solution for their relative weakness is hard to argue for, i.m.o.
 
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OZtwo said:
We can't forget that MA does mob trains all the time at twin peaks. Kind of sucks that they don't do it in pvp..but well kind of shows where they do stand here.
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Yeah that's why I'm not all in when support says one thing yet the opposite is prevalent. Plus support isn't cohesive so I read support posts as a guide line, but not the law.
 
San said:
But the logic remains questionable because it can always be seen from different sides. For a player with more skill points, stronger guns and armour (all of which simply translates into more money invested) it is also "too easy" to take out inferior ones at will and for as long as he wants prevent them from doing whatever they wanted to do. They can do it again and again and nobody tells them it is wrong. This part of the game is designed that way and disallowing anyone coming up with a creative solution for their relative weakness is hard to argue for, i.m.o.
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the people with the money that you speak of have invested!...
not just money, but time and effort as well...

to say the some noob who started yesterday, who sold a little sweat, or stood in line at noob rig for a couple days, or depo'd $10 and bought a vehicle to mob train the REAL rig with all day everyday, should be on equal grounds is fair or creative is just stupid! :wise:

Why would you play Entropia with this mindset?! you want a measly few drops of oil?! really?!

That's not at all what Entropia is about... that's just lame! play something else!

Short-time cheapskates harrassing the long-term investors to make pocket-change is a freakin' disgrace! Who would support that?! If you do, I guess you don't have any sense of respect!
 
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AkiranBlade said:
If it wasn't part of the experience, MA would've done something about it by now. Fact of the matter is, a well orchestrated mob train is just one of the funniest activities within entropia... o0oo00o0o0o0o00o0oo000ooooo
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Oooh Yeah - the days of trying to get a spider or 3 past the turrets into the old Port Atlantis square LOL
 
safara said:
Oooh Yeah - the days of trying to get a spider or 3 past the turrets into the old Port Atlantis square LOL
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Or on the streets of Hadeshiem :)
 
Mac said:
Or on the streets of Hadeshiem :)
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In VU-9 Port Atlantis, there were no turrets on the South side, so it was possible to get mobs pretty far taking them in from the South, then along the quays, past the mall and that way.

For hadesheim, there was one (at least) opening, where there was a bigger distance between the turrets (from the South). Bringing in spiders was a bit more of a sport, because at that time not even ubers would be unharmed by them (stalkers) and of course there were no vehicles. I Think it took a great deal of decoys to get the spiders out of spider crater (over the wall created by the hill chain), around the outpost that was just North of the crater (as it had turrets) and then the rest of the road towards Hadesheim.

As for Twin Peaks, I Think there was a small opening, in the west where you could sneak in one or two mobs between.
 
Xen said:
It's pvp.

It's not an exploit.

No whining.
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Agreed
I find the select target way more gamebreaking, but MA seems to think othewise :rolleyes:
 
safara said:
Ahh the days. This is how you do it :)

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A thing of beauty. :cool:

As a noob in 2005 some of my most entertaining moments were due to mob trains.
 
safara said:
Oooh Yeah - the days of trying to get a spider or 3 past the turrets into the old Port Atlantis square LOL
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I never attempted that, but I certainly got one to Camp Pheonix, that place was such fun for mob trains! Draged a spider or two to the old rig myself back in the day, but was a massive fail because the cKs camping it just nailed them lol.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
...
With that said everybody hates mob trains and it is too easy to kill people by training mobs with vehicles. The way I would want to address this is by setting a "max follow range" parameter on the mobs and after running after someone for that distance from their spawn point they simply run back. It wouldnt completely eliminate the risk of someone pulling mob(s) to you but it would make it harder and you couldnt collect as many mobs. I don't know how hard it is to implement something like this but I will suggest it to MindArk platform development. ...
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I have to completely disagree with this. I enjoy mob trains. If someone does me with one, I chuckle it off most of the time. Sometimes, there is malicious intent on it, for instance, if someone pulls mobs to a mining claim on purpose, or repeatedly targets a group of individuals. In some circumstances, you have to just accept them, for instance, at Crystal Palace, where it is common place to see someone running a heap of mobs back to the turret at the end of their hunt, but this tends to be an education thing, because it is far simpler to hit unequip all on your shortcutted armour set and take a death taxi.

Anyhow, I was going to suggest the very same fix as Kim mentions here, but at the end of the day, this kinda really has to be the lowest of the low priorities. At the end of the day, if they fix this, they lose out on the decay that is incurred from where people mob train.
 
Before vehicles it was all balanced vs skill and gear. Some guy dragging a big spider into that old sweat camp near PA was terrible fun, and one of the reasons i stayed with the game.
Those days a bigger cornundacauda behind the camp was a dangerous mob, but spiders... made me realize what can be achieved here, and i thought, damn that‘s who i want to be someday.

Mobtrains using vehicles is lame thou, proves u are a pitiful noob with no honour.
 
Perhaps the simple fix is to prevent mobs from attacking vehicles then.
 
AkiranBlade said:
Perhaps the simple fix is to prevent mobs from attacking vehicles then.
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Regretfully, it's not that simple. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Vehicles were never properly balanced cuz it's extremely difficult, too many different situations and possibilities...

Perhaps for the vehicle mobtrains Kim's idea about limiting the distance a mob can travel from it's original spawn could work. But then only for vehicles, for avatars on foot it should remain as it is.
 
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