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Worst crappy ass dpp sib?

A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec.
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All I need to read.
 
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec.
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atomicstorm said:
All I need to read.
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That's the thing, however, they said 'results' and not 'loot', and they never defined what results means.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
That's the thing, however, they said 'results' and not 'loot', and they never defined what 'results' means.
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Well as far as results go... "In the long run" is a bar that is constantly moved to show that the emperor's new clothes look awesome.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
That's the thing, however, they said 'results' and not 'loot', and they never defined what 'results' means. Likewise, in dev notes 3 they talk about 'efficient hunting' without stating exactly what the benefit of efficient hunting is. It may simple mean you can advance your avatars skills for less ped; due to kill bonus, completing iron missions cheaper etc. Of course, it may mean you will receive more ped from what you input, but they never said that precisely.

For example, in crafting, most crafters say they get the same tt % back, no matter if they are on condition or quantity (longterm). If you are on quantity it will be more 'efficient' and produce 'better crafting results' if your aim is to craft an item - same for killing a mob with higher dpp - but it doesn't return more ped - as a % - from what is inputted.
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I think most times we read into words too much.. and give mindark too much credit for creating a hugely complex mastermind algorithm when it is likely very simple.
 
ermik said:
And i thought it was common knowledge that its dmg done , not tt in.

We have proof, you just have to know where to look.
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Might be a late answer but it's TT in, not dmg. I have never done any test or have any data. But I have kill alot off Eomon Prowlers and they give the one good data. You dont get 50peds globals when you use eco gear, only when you are uneco.

I have never got a 50peds global on them, but I have seen many random-ml35 teams get them.

If you dont die, solo whit max Mod Merc dont give 5xpeds loot, allways under. (Stryker have been on the radar alot, what's where I got it from).


On Eomon stalkers is not that clear but a team whit imkII do get lower value on the globals agains other setups.
 
MilkeN said:
Might be a late answer but it's TT in, not dmg. I have never done any test or have any data. But I have kill alot off Eomon Prowlers and they give the one good data. You dont get 50peds globals when you use eco gear, only when you are uneco.

I have never got a 50peds global on them, but I have seen many random-ml35 teams get them.

If you dont die, solo whit max Mod Merc dont give 5xpeds loot, allways under. (Stryker have been on the radar alot, what's where I got it from).


On Eomon stalkers is not that clear but a team whit imkII do get lower value on the globals agains other setups.
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Is it possible that this is in relation to DPS (ie, regen) rather than DPP?
 
atomicstorm said:
I think most times we read into words too much.. and give mindark too much credit for creating a hugely complex mastermind algorithm when it is likely very simple.
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I agree the system is probably simple, and my hunch is that higher dpp will produce a better TT return rate.
 
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minim said:
Then don't bother. 1000ped up/downs are nothing when using uneco stuff.
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With really small mobs that may be enough to get useful data but yes it's almost impossible to prove these things with our current tools.

AkiranBlade said:
The increase in loot return against cost to kill has already been proven some time ago by Jimmy B when he did his low dmg weapon vs. high regen mob test.
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Regen hp killed shouldn't be considered as the same as normal hp killed though, so that's interesting but not useful for answering the question Whining wants to answer.

sachi.mk2 said:
That's the thing, however, they said 'results' and not 'loot', and they never defined what 'results' means. Likewise, in dev notes 3 they talk about 'efficient hunting' without stating exactly what the benefit of efficient hunting is. It may simple mean you can advance your avatars skills for less ped; due to kill bonus, completing iron missions cheaper etc. Of course, it may mean you will receive more ped from what you input, but they never said that precisely.
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The truth is that the dev notes created more uncertainty than they dispelled. I think that's probably "mission accomplished" for them. Another is described in a post in Longtime's thread.

Anyway, it would be helpful if people would read the thread before posting and stay on topic. Many of the things being claimed/argued or evidences given are not directly related to the OP. We'll never get anywhere if we can't focus on one unknown at a time.
 
I've always said that dpp is a hunting slider. I think MikeN comment shows that and hence why loot cycles are tighter.
 
atomicstorm said:
I've always said that dpp is a hunting slider. I think MikeN comment shows that and hence why loot cycles are tighter.
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I thought that the old 20k Argonaut loots had stopped because of a loot change, but is it possible it's just because people used to have less DPP weapons back then?
 
Scurvy Sityl said:
I thought that the old 20k Argonaut loots had stopped because of a loot change, but is it possible it's just because people used to have less DPP weapons back then?
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Nah, 2.9 was normal back then. The change to loot was announced by MA.
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
I prove you ALL wrong, monkey-ass men! See that list above? I made numero uno on that list, knew how bad it was and went hunting anyway, because I am fucking genious brah.

Gun had enough tt when full for 3 mobs. I shot like 1xx ped of ammo, and 3rd mob globalled for 180 ped.

I am not kidding.

I know this is going to blow your mind!!!!

Deal with THAT now with your little mind-blinders on....I blew you!!!

Ka-rah-TAY!!!!



ps...This is entirely true, and it was some time after I discovered the sleaze...I forgot what mob, but can check tracker. It really happened...I don't know why I was talking like a crazy person again, though...but it's so fun
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I have globaled hunting with a grindhouse sleeze as well.
I havent used more than a coupe of them, and I doubt taco has either. And doubt anyone else is dumb enough to..... So we are talking <20 mobs killed and 2 globals on small mobs because of an uneco setup.

In answer to the opening post, you could get either me or Taco to craft you some sleeze and then do some longer runs with them to see how you average out. (I am sure either of us would give you as many as you wanted for TT)

Edit: Even with that, I am still in the dpp camp for long term sustainability. (loot is based of dmg delt, you spend what you want to deal that dmg)
 
narfi said:
I have globaled hunting with a grindhouse sleeze as well.
I havent used more than a coupe of them, and I doubt taco has either. And doubt anyone else is dumb enough to..... So we are talking <20 mobs killed and 2 globals on small mobs because of an uneco setup.

In answer to the opening post, you could get either me or Taco to craft you some sleeze and then do some longer runs with them to see how you average out. (I am sure either of us would give you as many as you wanted for TT)

Edit: Even with that, I am still in the dpp camp for long term sustainability. (loot is based of dmg delt, you spend what you want to deal that dmg)
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The sleaze would probably be perfect. I can hunt carabooks for a few days with it and then use the barbella with 3.5+ times the damage per pec.

We should be able to come to a quick conclusion as the difference is so big.

I'll let either of you know, or craft a few myself if the bp doesn't cost a fortune.
 
Why craft when they offer it to you for TT? Do you like losing peds? :)
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
The sleaze would probably be perfect. I can hunt carabooks for a few days with it and then use the barbella with 3.5+ times the damage per pec.

We should be able to come to a quick conclusion as the difference is so big.

I'll let either of you know, or craft a few myself if the bp doesn't cost a fortune.
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If you could note each individual loot event value it would be great.

To see if actual loot changes depending on wich gun you use.
 
Why not test it with mindforce?
 
I guess we all have our own theory how loot works... and in mine, I doubt it could be
seen in DPP only.
It's way more complex than that, but that doesn't mean each calculation have to be since
system utilize dynamic coding for this.
So in the end, (very simplified) it's all about number matching, the value a avatar use
vs. the value a target have.
A certain setup will match a certain mob better than another mob, so when comparing
two setups that are very different could end up either with a huge difference in this
number matching game, or they can be very similar... It's all about what values a
avatar gets when he/she equip items and all parameters are combined to a value
to be used in the number matching game. ;)
A mob have this type of value too, so it's the same there, it's based on several
parameters to get a value to match numbers to.
This is what a avatar can "controll", on top of that are the system layer whit all
parts that are included, like peaks in loot boost and so on and so on.
Ofc, this is only my theory thou', on eamong others. :silly2:

PS. You do realize that each interaction with a target is linear when it comes to cost and
build up of loot? Damage, "Miss", "Target evaded attack" and regen are just "tools" to differentiate
amount of times you do a interaction, i.e the amount of times number matching are used? ;)
 
finaly home (was on phone earlier) and realized we were saying sleaze, If you want more dps, then Grindhouse Striptease would be the gun to use.
 
narfi said:
finaly home (was on phone earlier) and realized we were saying sleaze, If you want more dps, then Grindhouse Striptease would be the gun to use.
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Whats dps on Striptease?

I think he planned on using Slease since it could work decently on caraboks ( compared to barbella ) without too much diff in dps and dmg.
 
ermik said:
Whats dps on Striptease?

I think he planned on using Slease since it could work decently on caraboks ( compared to barbella ) without too much diff in dps and dmg.
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Yeah,

Going with sleaze, barbella, FreanD alpha me and mux1. I'm probably going to add two more weapons to see effects of overkill (as in realistic overkill).

Cycling kills will be more important than cycling ped.
 
Arangar said:
Some "before you begin" reading to avoid wasting your time :)

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/bulletin/buzz/2012/6/19/Developer-Notes--3.xml
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That developer-notes can be walid now or was walid when they relased it but we cant be sure it will be tomorrow.

In first years of PE i played a lot with melee wich today is les than 2.2 eco and nobody maxed it ( needed lvl 100) and i did fine, but it was same with imk2 or any other gun where ppl had 3 or les HA, CHA lol.
Today using castorian survival enblade 10 (maxed ofc) we can consider as pedcard fast killer.
Developers talk all arround but they do not answer how come they let us play for years with such weapons and not maxed.
Also they do not answer why MA inplement non eco gear and tools and then tell us how dumb we are to use them.

Any way we can use super DPP or DPS things but if MA change loot or cause that MU change or other factors, enviroment, dificulty, regen, hp ect we wasted time testing, its dinamic lol.
 
ok if better dpp gives better results..

what happens to the "wasted" ped? does it go straight onto MA pedcard or does it get payed out in loots again?

thats another question..
 
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You only need to use the bad eco maxed weapon, long term. The others are unnecessary and can only put doubt in the results.
 
Magnus Mag said:
ok if better dpp gives better results..

what happens to the "wasted" ped? does it go straight onto MA pedcard or does it get payed out in loots again?

thats another question..
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Decay goes to the pp and ammo lost goes to the loot pool. Maybe it is coincidence but I very frequently have runs where I lose the same amount as the decay spent and my tt return is how much ammo I spent.
 
atomicstorm said:
Decay goes to the pp and ammo lost goes to the loot pool. Maybe it is coincidence but I very frequently have runs where I lose the same amount as the decay spent and my tt return is how much ammo I spent.
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Damn , thats why all my melee runs always produce 0% tt return!
 
Dan59 said:
That developer-notes can be walid now or was walid when they relased it but we cant be sure it will be tomorrow.

In first years of PE i played a lot with melee wich today is les than 2.2 eco and nobody maxed it ( needed lvl 100) and i did fine, but it was same with imk2 or any other gun where ppl had 3 or les HA, CHA lol.
Today using castorian survival enblade 10 (maxed ofc) we can consider as pedcard fast killer.
Developers talk all arround but they do not answer how come they let us play for years with such weapons and not maxed.
Also they do not answer why MA inplement non eco gear and tools and then tell us how dumb we are to use them.

Any way we can use super DPP or DPS things but if MA change loot or cause that MU change or other factors, enviroment, dificulty, regen, hp ect we wasted time testing, its dinamic lol.
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If we use same p.o.v as MA does in that dev notes, i.e looking at cost to use something in
long term, one could say that the less eco weapon you use, the higher knowledge you
need for the system, since loss can be high when doing something "wrong".
BTW, Survival Enblabe 10 is still a good weapon imo, even thou' I'm far from maxed... ;)
 
fred5283 said:
Here is that thread I was talking about I think... I swear there was another one too.

http://arkadiaforum.com/threads/ardorjies-crazy-uneconomic-huntinglog-on-halix.8621/
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That's mine (and why is this post ignored?)

A short (I'll try) summary for those who are afraid to click the link and read all the pages. 4x Powerfist and later 1x sword on Halix, Arkadian mob with 30 - 50 HP encountered. Used weapons: Castorian EnKnuckles-A (2,738 dpp); Castorian EnKnuckles-1 (2,032 dpp) ; Mux-1 EnergyGlove (1,345 dpp); Mux-2 EnergyGlove (1,140 dpp); Laconian Sword (2,851 dpp).
Only Laconian and EnKnucles-A maxed.
Results from best to worse: Laconian (91.1%); EnKnucles-A (85.7%); EnKnucles-1 (78.8%); Mux-1 (66.1%); Mux-2 (58.9%).
I've killed over 12k Halixes for this experiment. I costed me a little less then 2400 PED on weapon decay alone and a bit more then 2500 PED on decay for all. I got just about not yet 1800 PED back, that's an average return of 72.5%.
Weapons with lower dpp gives more skill-value per PED.
Probably a weapon with better dpp gives items with more markup.
A weapon with lower dpp gives more and higher globals, but it's only to compensate a bit for the other crap loots.

I now hunt with Khorum Ice Dagger (2,871 dpp) for another experiment, Hadraada this time, and I'm at 96,1% return.

I wish you the best of luck with your experiment. But more then that, I wish you returns that help you get a clear picture of what dpp does.

Ardorj :)
 
Ardorj said:
Results from best to worse: Laconian (91.1%); EnKnucles-A (85.7%); EnKnucles-1 (78.8%); Mux-1 (66.1%); Mux-2 (58.9%).
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Not a good comparison as some are sib (maxed) and some are not (not maxed). So you are mixing dpp and maxed/not maxed.
 
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