What is your Definition of PVP in Space?

How do you define Space PVP?

  • Shooting at ships but with no intent to actually distroying them.

    Votes: 11 35.5%
  • Shooting at ships with the intent to destroy but not loot.

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Shooting at ships with the intent to destroy and loot them.

    Votes: 25 80.6%
  • Defending yourself in space with one of the above options.

    Votes: 17 54.8%

  • Total voters
    31
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Sionkiewicz

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Brendan Slick Gould
I'm curious as to what people would consider/define normal Space PVP and where it crosses the line to Harrasment. The is multiple Choice so choose all that you feel apply.

Edit: These are repeated actions.. not just one or two times.
 
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The poll is flawed :)

To cross the line into harassment, the action has to be repetitive.

"It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive."

Doing any of the above once, twice or several times is not harassment, however there is a line which can be crossed.

The question would be where is the line, and is it subjective or open to interpretation.

If I called you a name, I am just mean. But if repeatedly called you a name with the intent to upset you, over and over, I would be harassing you, but each of us might set a different bar for when it changes to harassment.

For the benefit of those not involved, is this related to recent pirates banning for warp harassment, hence the question of what is considered harassment or not?
 
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One option missing IMO: "Should not exits" - check!
 
Another missing option:

Why should I care about the petty actions of scumbags
 
The poll is flawed :)

To cross the line into harassment, the action has to be repetitive.

"It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive."

Doing any of the above once, twice or several times is not harassment, however there is a line which can be crossed.

If I called you a name, I am just mean. But if repeatedly called you a name with the intent to upset you, over and over, I would be harassing you.

For the benefit of those planet side, this may be related to recent pirates banning for warp harassment, hence the question of what is considered harassment or not. Just a guess ;)

Though I do agree with you I think if I told someone at work that they had a nice ass once I would be brought up on sexual harrasment charges.. :laugh:

I will update my original post to let people know that I am speaking of repetative actions..
 
Though I do agree with you I think if I told someone at work that they had a nice ass once I would be brought up on sexual harrasment charges.. :laugh:

I will update my original post to let people know that I am speaking of repetative actions..

Depends on the person! he/she might be flattered! ;) :laugh:
 
Normal space (or any other) PVP is when all parties attend willingly with intention of PVP. As it is, it's like a dispute between street gangs about what kind of affray is to consider "honourable", while normal citizens are only interested in getting to other districts of the town alive.
 
Action is always repetitive.
First time you get shooted by pirate #1,
Second time by pirate #2,
Third time by pirate #3 and so on.
You got shooted each time.
Do pirates take agenda who will do it to you next time or not in order to not being shooted by same pirate all time is not so important.
Also we dont know motive - do pirate do it for fun or for own earning or they are paid by motherships who offer "safe" transport.
Space as is now is imposed and forced PVP harashment with possible extorsion elements - ie or you pay transport service or you pay anyway by being shooted and loosing a lot of time and maybe by being looted too.
 
You forgot this option and is the main reason we have pirates:

The thrill to loot others for their real money and not be legally bound for doing it.
 
Normal space (or any other) PVP is when all parties attend willingly with intention of PVP. As it is, it's like a dispute between street gangs about what kind of affray is to consider "honourable", while normal citizens are only interested in getting to other districts of the town alive.

I understand what you are saying but it's not a subject I'm looking to debate in this thread. I'm more interested in how people define Space PVP vs Plain Harrasment.

The morality of how some use Space PV is a much bigger discussion for another day. :tongue2:
 
Action is always repetitive.
First time you get shooted by pirate #1,
Second time by pirate #2,
Third time by pirate #3 and so on.
You got shooted each time.
Do pirates take agenda who will do it to you next time or not in order to not being shooted by same pirate all time is not so important.
Also we dont know motive - do pirate do it for fun or for own earning or they are paid by motherships who offer "safe" transport.
Space as is now is imposed and forced PVP harashment with possible extorsion elements - ie or you pay transport service or you pay anyway by being shooted and loosing a lot of time and maybe by being looted too.

I understand what you are saying but it's not a subject I'm looking to debate in this thread. I'm more interested in how people define Space PVP vs Plain Harrasment.
 
I understand what you are saying but it's not a subject I'm looking to debate in this thread. I'm more interested in how people define Space PVP vs Plain Harrasment.

I thinked that was enought clear.
We dont have sofisticated pvp systems in EU as in other games where one have to accept duel to enable oponent to do damage and to be damaged in fight.
Shooting on possible prey - interplanetar travelers with or without any intention is still shoting on them.
 
space pvp = being in space

harrasment = when you feel harrased
 
None of the above....

PVP is generally thought of as 2 or more players fighting each other. Like at the oil rigs, BOTH persons usually have armour and weapons and a chance to damage each other.

THIS IS NO SO IN SPACE...Most the time in space it is not the definition of PVP, as most the time only ONE of the player has weapons capable of damage. The other is a defenseless target and cannot even damage the attacker.

I don't even consider this PVP, as most the time the defenseless target does not have the resources to equip their ship with guns (You won't find many of these in auction) and have no option but to just get destroyed.

There are those in space whose only joy seems to be 'ganking' every defenseless ship they see, multiple times and don't see to care if it costs them or not. I personally had my Quad destroyed 3 times in a row, even though the pirate could plainly see it was damaged and I obviously had no lootable cargo (because it was already taken the first time). And before anyone chimes in NO I did not 'mouth off' at them.

I consider it extremely unfair for Mindark to consider this 'fair', when it is not in any way shape or form 'fair'.
All they are going to do is have people give up going to space and other planets will suffer because of this, due to people not coming to (and spending money) at them. Not a lot of people are going to spend 30 Ped a trip on mothership and have to wait for one for that privilege.

IMHO PVP in space should be only between ARMED ships. Unarmed Defenseless ship should have immunity to everything but NPC space monsters.

---
 
Pirates - What pirates - I fly between Caly Cyrene and Ark regularly and I cant remember the last time i saw a pirate. I never carry stackables in space and generally take off point at the next SS and go watch TV or eat dinner for 20 - 40 minutes.

There seemed to be a lot more pirate activity when I started playing in 2011 - but a lot of the old names don't seem to be playing atm. I think MA make it clear space is PVP. Harrassment is when a pirate repeatedly destroys the same ship knowing it has no loot. However if you abuse the pirates in chat for shooting you then you have to expect a response.

I hope the next VU brings some updated space content, I used to enjoy it quite a lot but it is just boring now.

Incidentally it was a friend and I who organised the "Love a Pirate" day last year which had a good turn out of players and we had a laugh - only trouble was the pirates didn't show.
 
Poll Options*

There is a missing option I would consider.

I would consider that being destroyed continuously after finding out there is/was loot and has nothing. That is just disturbing player from continuing on with their game play,and I find that is by definition "harassment." :wise:
 
space pvp = being in space

harrasment = when you feel harrased

I feelt harashed when MA removed interplanetar TP's.
I feel harashed because MA made space pvp.
Mostly i feel harashed that someone else can have fun without paying.
If someone neds to shoot me - he can do it in ring as long as he pay for each kill but when someone shoot in space on me for free i feel harashed.

so space pvp = being in space = to be a free toy for bad boys = harashment

If we could have things like land grabs in space then all shoting would get some meaning ..
 
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versus = defines pvp
killing = defines pk

Thus to pvp you DONT have to "kill" to be pvp/ing in or out of pvp zones. So called "harassment" in my view is also form of PVP = end of.
 
Quick question....do you loot ammo in space like in normal pvp? If that's the case I can see how people would get harassed. You know where the next "mob" is in this case so you kill it over and over again hoping for a multiplier. Regardless...all the more reason to use a mothership.
 
I agree with Bonnie that this "Poll" is flawed and for much the same reasons.

I am not a PVPer at heart. Most likely because I am pretty bloody hopeless at that sort of thing and I really don't have the "MindSet" for being a "Pirate". In a recent discussion with some friends we covere what we thought was the difference between "Pirates in Space" and "Brigands in a PVP4 Zone'. The end result was simply the Title given to each incividual.

The simple facts are that a "Pirate in Space" wanders around looking for some hapless victim that they can steal hard earned goods from. A "Brigand in PVP4" wanders around looking for some hapless victim that they can steal hard earned goods from. Yes, I agree that two different skill sets are used. In PVP4 you use skills, armor and weapons that have to be earned one way or another. In Space you do not need a great deal of "Physical Skill" on your Avatar. The end results are still the same. You pay to go to PVP4 - Toxic Shot. You pay to go to Space-Flight Fare, Space Thruster Planet Entry Fees. They both cost to go to.

Yes, you have the option to go around and not into a PVP4 Xone, but you also have the option (Under current conditions) to travel safely through Space on one of the many larger Warp Ships with either high SI or Logged out for the journey. In both circumstances you have the option to avoid PVP Interactions. Going into Space and taking a "Risk" is a personal choice. Going into PVP4 Zones and taking a risk is a personal option.

Because of what I choose to do in "Space" means I choose to partake in Lootable PVP. It is therefore my respnsibility to take the required precautions to protect my goods with whatever means MindArk have currently made available to me. As it is also for everyone else.
 
Wikipedia said:
Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing. Sexual harassment refers to persistent and unwanted sexual advances, typically in the workplace, where the consequences of refusing are potentially very disadvantageous to the victim.

This is a quick google search of the word harassment.

So let's not mix piracy, with harassment, because frankly they're totally different things, that MAY be connected through player action.

:mad:And in my unbiased opinion... Some people need to start thinking a bit more about how the game is set up and realize that it's not about you, it's about everyone. The game doesn't revolve around YOUR needs, it revolves around everyone's needs. Or at least it should.:mad:

Ok, had to let some steam out :) Sorry about that!

Sionkiewicz said:
I understand what you are saying but it's not a subject I'm looking to debate in this thread. I'm more interested in how people define Space PVP vs Plain Harrasment.

Ill answer this with someone else's writting:

slither said:
space pvp = being in space

harrasment = when you feel harrased

I don't understand how people are throwing in a concept on top of a game mechanic, and comparing them. Then again, I do to some extent.

So here:
PVPer A shoots at PVPer B (yes, the guy flying from planet to planet is a PVPer, you accepted the warning, get over it). PVPer B is destroyed. PVPer A takes the spoils.
This is not harassment. Now:
PVPer A decides to "have fun" and keep stopping PVPer B from escaping through non fatal means (like the warp interruption example), this can be considered harassment. However, this is a grey area of sorts, so it's always case by case. It's a game mechanic. Yes, it is. Can you use it? Yes, you can. Can you abuse it? No, you can't. Are some people abusing? Yes, they are.
If PVPer A wants to kill you over and over and over, even if you don't have loot. This is not harassment. This is PVP. It's repetitive, but intended.

With this thread, I am by no means trying to defend piracy or pirate intentions mind you, but I do like PVP, and you guys make it sound so negative like it's almost a crime to do it in this game... Almost no player does PVP any justice, even those who practice it... So please, when trying to defend something, try not to make it sound so negative.

P.S.: That poll... What's it for? :(
 
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Litle off topic but still.
My country got new law against PK ing tourism.
PK ing tourists will be guilty more than before new law also for things done out of our country, persecuted and inprisoned.
Does not matter taht anyone know about PVP lootable zone (like Siria ect ) and all accept that rules.
Just fact that citisen of my country got there or just tryed (lured) to go there to shoot ect will be enought to claim him not just as possible murder but as a terorist.
Thats big difference with MA because MA condone and encourages similar actions...
 
Litle off topic but still.
My country got new law against PK ing tourism.
PK ing tourists will be guilty more than before new law also for things done out of our country, persecuted and inprisoned.
Does not matter taht anyone know about PVP lootable zone (like Siria ect ) and all accept that rules.
Just fact that citisen of my country got there or just tryed (lured) to go there to shoot ect will be enought to claim him not just as possible murder but as a terorist.
Thats big difference with MA because MA condone and encourages similar actions...

The fact that you compare a real world warzone where people get slaughtered because some fictional pedophile rapists says so, with the lootable pvp zones in game is just plain horrible.
 
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P.S.: That poll... What's it for? :(

Just to be clear, I didn't start this to complain about Pie-rats.. To be honest, Space would be kinda boring without them out there and I can even respect some of them in how they conduct themselves while conducting their "Business".

As I was hoping for, the poll shows that there are varied definitions of Space PVP and it seems that no one person's version is exactly the same.

BUT, The definition of harrasment seems to be universal in being "behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive" (such as your example of someone in a Quad repeatedly shooting a warp ship just to break thier warp and delay them). One other characteristic of this definition is it is from the "victim's" view, not the perpetrator's..

So, now let me drag a little RL perspective into this.. :wise:

You are at work and someone repeatedly comes over to you desk daily and makes comments about your fashion choices. You ask them to stay out of it but they just continue on..

To you, this can be considered harrasment. To the co-worker, they may not view it in that way and even think they are helping you. But from a Management perspective, your view on this is more important and the co-worker will probably get the talking to and be told to stop this behavior (or suffer the conciquences). Management's job is to make a conducive environment where they can get the most work out of you and if you are running around upsetting that mix they must step in and solve that issue.​

So with us all getting ready for the new Space VU, I thought it may be good to start a discussion where people can express thier views on this subject and hopefully gain some perspective of where "the lines are drawn" on this.

Thank you (oh, and please continue the discussion)..
 
Just to be clear, I didn't start this to complain about Pie-rats.. To be honest, Space would be kinda boring without them out there and I can even respect some of them in how they conduct themselves while conducting their "Business".

As I was hoping for, the poll shows that there are varied definitions of Space PVP and it seems that no one person's version is exactly the same.

BUT, The definition of harrasment seems to be universal in being "behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive" (such as your example of someone in a Quad repeatedly shooting a warp ship just to break thier warp and delay them). One other characteristic of this definition is it is from the "victim's" view, not the perpetrator's..

So, now let me drag a little RL perspective into this.. :wise:

You are at work and someone repeatedly comes over to you desk daily and makes comments about your fashion choices. You ask them to stay out of it but they just continue on..

To you, this can be considered harrasment. To the co-worker, they may not view it in that way and even think they are helping you. But from a Management perspective, your view on this is more important and the co-worker will probably get the talking to and be told to stop this behavior (or suffer the conciquences). Management's job is to make a conducive environment where they can get the most work out of you and if you are running around upsetting that mix they must step in and solve that issue.​

So with us all getting ready for the new Space VU, I thought it may be good to start a discussion where people can express thier views on this subject and hopefully gain some perspective of where "the lines are drawn" on this.

Thank you (oh, and please continue the discussion)..

Your example is giving me reason, its relative. however you forgot to mention that the management is unbiased towards the specific situation, and since im also unbiased about the example, i too see it as harassment, and im sure that so do you. And THAT is harassment.

Now if you change the example a bit, and say that the coworker is constantly talking down the other one for his bad work ethics or whatever reason. Management will not see it as harassment, because it is a fact that the slacker is what he is.

It's a bit hard to explain to full detail, but what i mean is. It's not biased, and you are not doing it justice AT ALL by putting both those terms together.
 
Your example is giving me reason, its relative. however you forgot to mention that the management is unbiased towards the specific situation, and since im also unbiased about the example, i too see it as harassment, and im sure that so do you. And THAT is harassment.

Now if you change the example a bit, and say that the coworker is constantly talking down the other one for his bad work ethics or whatever reason. Management will not see it as harassment, because it is a fact that the slacker is what he is.

It's a bit hard to explain to full detail, but what i mean is. It's not biased, and you are not doing it justice AT ALL by putting both those terms together.

Unless the Co-Worker is charged with supervision, it's harrasment. HR would have to do something about it to remain un-biased. But they should also be doing something about the first person's bad work ethic also to maintain the working environment.

MA will need to remain unbiased in the situation but in a way you are right.. The workers who contribute the most to the work environment (and with MA that would mead deposits) do have a bigger say in how it is administered.
 
The harassment is this,

Person leaves space station with no loot. Pirate kills them. Person revives, repairs tries to leave station again. Pirate kills them again. Rinse and repeat. That's harassment.

My only issue with PvP in space is that when you have pirates on your ass and you make it to a station, they can still kill you. In Baseball the equivalent would be getting tagged out after you stepped on home plate and sat down on the bench. The cool down time is BS.
 
I understand what you are saying but it's not a subject I'm looking to debate in this thread. I'm more interested in how people define Space PVP vs Plain Harrasment.

Look to the public channels in game - there is plain harassment all the time. Especially in Space channels.

I would vote for "Space is PVP - so be smart about it" choice if there was one.

I don't think stopping a warp should be considered harassment, only because space is PVP. If anything, MA should change the code so it will not stop a warp unless the ship is more than 50% damaged or something.

If you get pirates banned for stopping a warp and interfering with your game play, that is interfering with their game play. It turns into a vicious circle of support cases.
 
Look to the public channels in game - there is plain harassment all the time. Especially in Space channels.

I would vote for "Space is PVP - so be smart about it" choice if there was one.

I don't think stopping a warp should be considered harassment, only because space is PVP. If anything, MA should change the code so it will not stop a warp unless the ship is more than 50% damaged or something.

Bringing a Mothership to 50% with just a quad would be achievment in itself.. :headbang:

but I think the example given by Starkiller is more of the One shot to stop warp and then back off and wait for the warp cycle to start while staying out of range of the guns. Basically, the aim is to stop the ship from getting where it was going.

If you get pirates banned for stopping a warp and interfering with your game play, that is interfering with their game play. It turns into a vicious circle of support cases.

MA would be the one to determine if the actions are a violation of the TOS and if so do the banning.. not sure anyone else could be found at fault for it.. :wise:
 
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