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Question: claim after nrf in same spot?

I've always relied on a "server loot pool" theory." And this has held up very well for me over the years when it comes to getting more of resource X than resource Y even if the LBML maps show a 3/2 ration of Y to X.

Basically, for example, let's say that there is 15k of gazz in the entire shinook server at its maximum (and that MA lowered these amount across all of calypso in the recent past)

The lower the supply goes from the 15k, the less likely you are to find it. I've noticed this more so when the markup of gazz falls, supply is up, and the % distribution of it in shinook goes down from 9.5% to 7%.

When crafters craft with the resources they're put back into the server loot pool.. Much like gun loots really, or esi.

There are some resources with an infinite cap though (belk, blau, cald, lyst, oil, etc...)
 
Rocket192 said:
I've always relied on a "server loot pool" theory." And this has held up very well for me over the years when it comes to getting more of resource X than resource Y even if the LBML maps show a 3/2 ration of Y to X.

Basically, for example, let's say that there is 15k of gazz in the entire shinook server at its maximum (and that MA lowered these amount across all of calypso in the recent past)

The lower the supply goes from the 15k, the less likely you are to find it. I've noticed this more so when the markup of gazz falls, supply is up, and the % distribution of it in shinook goes down from 9.5% to 7%.

When crafters craft with the resources they're put back into the server loot pool.. Much like gun loots really, or esi.

There are some resources with an infinite cap though (belk, blau, cald, lyst, oil, etc...)
Click to expand...

I used to think like this, ish, but not anymore. Take redulite, last year i hoarded the stuff, having thousands and thousands of peds of it. Drop rate never changed. That wasn't including people like NZR who hoards shit loads. Auk bought all it for months and months, back in the day. Then there is Max and Koter that hoard it as well. I have never notice a slump in drop rate for it.

I think for ores and enmatters, MA set a % chance of finding a particular ore on each drop. I don't think they care how much is in circulation.

Of course i have absolutely no proof of this. But my spreadsheets are proof enough for me.

You must have noticed the same with shinook. Getting roughly the same percentage of each ore over 1k drops?


Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
I used to think like this, ish, but not anymore. Take redulite, last year i hoarded the stuff, having thousands and thousands of peds of it. Drop rate never changed. That wasn't including people like NZR who hoards shit loads. Auk bought all it for months and months, back in the day. Then there is Max and Koter that hoard it as well. I have never notice a slump in drop rate for it.

I think for ores and enmatters, MA set a % chance of finding a particular ore on each drop. I don't think they care how much is in circulation.

Of course i have absolutely no proof of this. But my spreadsheets are proof enough for me.

You must have noticed the same with shinook. Getting roughly the same percentage of each ore over 1k drops?


Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

There are days in Shinook where I just find absolutely no gazz, and then there are days where I hit it like crazy. Same revival zones, same finder tool.

It's possible that Redulite doesn't follow this logic and just has a really really low flat drop % rate. Personally this is what I believe. Almost every time I hit Redulite or Zanderium etc the claim appears right next to my avatar, which leads to me believe these are randomly generated by MA and have nothing to do with "regeneration".
 
ZPF said:
There are days in Shinook where I just find absolutely no gazz, and then there are days where I hit it like crazy. Same revival zones, same finder tool.

It's possible that Redulite doesn't follow this logic and just has a really really low flat drop % rate. Personally this is what I believe. Almost every time I hit Redulite or Zanderium etc the claim appears right next to my avatar, which leads to me believe these are randomly generated by MA and have nothing to do with "regeneration".
Click to expand...

Fair point, redu and zand could be set up differently. That doesnt account for getting the same rough % of the others though.


Rgds

Ace
 
Rare ores might be set up differently.. And I suppose there are two possibilities.. It's either a timing thing where you'll hit gazz a lot at one point and then not at all for hours, or it's a server pool situation.

Either way my data would suggest there's either some coincidence to ore % mined up and crafting of said ore... Or I'm just really lucky and happen to time it perfectly 19/20 times.
 
Rocket192 said:
Rare ores might be set up differently.. And I suppose there are two possibilities.. It's either a timing thing where you'll hit gazz a lot at one point and then not at all for hours, or it's a server pool situation.

Either way my data would suggest there's either some coincidence to ore % mined up and crafting of said ore... Or I'm just really lucky and happen to time it perfectly 19/20 times.
Click to expand...

Then your data and mine are saying two completely different things. I get a regular ish % of tt spent of each ore.


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: ignoring out lyers (big hits), I know, within 5%/10% what percentages i will have of each ore.
 
Rocket192 said:
It's either a timing thing where you'll hit gazz a lot at one point and then not at all for hours, or it's a server pool situation.
Click to expand...

Yup it's one or the other. Ace's point about finding the same amount of gazz over a long period doesn't necessarily dispute or confirm either of these theories. Distribution inevitably starts to look consistent after a large amount of drops.
 
Just to add to Falagor's latest comment before mine.

I used to mine RT quite frequently and I tested out something while I was there.

I would mainly mine with 2 finder the TT and an F-105.

While using the TT finder if I got several NRF's in a row, I would change to an F-105. In most cases it broke the NRF streak because usually using the same finder over the same area produced more NRF's for some reason and I will explain this below in a little more detail.

I would continue using the F-105 till a streak of NRF's broke out again (say 3-7) and then I would switch back to the TT finder.

What I am trying to say is this, I used to think that if I had a much deeper finder to the TT finder that the probe would burrow through the ground the entire way to the point where it has found a claim.

I found this not to be the case! If I look at alternative rock, the minimum depth is 5M, the average depth is 606M and maximum depth is 1452M.

So I could drop with TT finder find a claim at 5M, switch to F-105 find a claim at 600M and switch again to another higher Finder and find a claim at 1500M all on the same spot potentially.

I think of Finders as rocket launchers, I could fire with TT finder and the probe ie rocket would fall even just 5M away to find a claim. I could then at the same spot drop with F-105 and find the same ore past the first find etc.

Either way I have 1495M to work with and for every 1M there could be a potential claim, depending on where the probes lands ie depth and whether or not the probe found something there at it's destination.

So you could potentially find 1495 claims all from the same position, of course every drop would have to land at a different depth/coordinates, which is impossible to achieve. If we could have absolute control over this function/ability maybe mining would be more fun or more risky?

Many times I would drop with F-105 find NRF switch to TT finder and get a claim higher up whether at the same spot or close to the drop origin. Of course this defies any sort of logic or reasoning hence why I thought a much deeper finder was working its way through all the points in depth/coordinates to find a claim but this does not appear to be the case.

So in some way I am supporting that claims are not in the ground but randomly generated because if they were in the ground the logic above would stand true but it is clearly not.

This would also explain why if using the TT finder for a prolonged period of time in a certain area would also produce more NRF streaks, because the TT finder is only finding points between 5 - 204 this range would quickly dry up over time, combined with resources being re-spawned.

So dropping a probe it lands at say 100M, if the second probe landed at the same location and the first was an NRF most likely the second drop would be as well unless the second probe hit a different depth all together or server re-spawns resource in time before probe hit destination.

Some food for thought to ponder over.
 
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Ace Flyster said:
I think for ores and enmatters, MA set a % chance of finding a particular ore on each drop. I don't think they care how much is in circulation.
Click to expand...

They changed the "this week there will be no duru on caly, visit NI if you want some"?

Haven't been ingame for a long time.

Ontopic, this was never the case before, the refresh time (either changing server or new avatar in same place) used to be considerable. If they changed to this new system, i would guess the number of players increased dramatically over the last year?
 
Ace Flyster said:
Then your data and mine are saying two completely different things. I get a regular ish % of tt spent of each ore.


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: ignoring out lyers (big hits), I know, within 5%/10% what percentages i will have of each ore.
Click to expand...

I track % of claims, not % of TT so the second problem isn't an issue..

How we mine could be a variation. I don't carpet bomb.. Rather I bomb on the nodes on my LBML maps where I have found the resources previously. Could just be that there are subsections of zones with more % of an ore compared to others, but either way I think if you carpet bomb you will hit the % averages per server on the LBML maps online.

And to build on Falagor's post:

It's fairly common and tested true that when you mine the finder will bring up the first claim on the vector "i.e. closest to you and closest to the finder's specified depth"

I think it would be possible to bomb with rookie finder, hit 150m lyst, then bomb with f-105 and hit a 590m lyst, and lastly a dsec and hit a 970m lyst. Assuming all of those claims are present, and you happen to hit the roughly 1/4 chance of getting a claim all 3 times over.
 
Rocket192 said:
I track % of claims, not % of TT so the second problem isn't an issue..

How we mine could be a variation. I don't carpet bomb.. Rather I bomb on the nodes on my LBML maps where I have found the resources previously. Could just be that there are subsections of zones with more % of an ore compared to others, but either way I think if you carpet bomb you will hit the % averages per server on the LBML maps online.

And to build on Falagor's post:

It's fairly common and tested true that when you mine the finder will bring up the first claim on the vector "i.e. closest to you and closest to the finder's specified depth"

I think it would be possible to bomb with rookie finder, hit 150m lyst, then bomb with f-105 and hit a 590m lyst, and lastly a dsec and hit a 970m lyst. Assuming all of those claims are present, and you happen to hit the roughly 1/4 chance of getting a claim all 3 times over.
Click to expand...
Thank you for simplifying my long wall of text lol +rep.
 
Claim after NRF confirmed .... If you change your facing or move slightly it does happen ....
 
R4tt3xx said:
Claim after NRF confirmed .... If you change your facing or move slightly it does happen ....
Click to expand...

Could be attributed to a lot of things...

The real question is, are you seeing the same hit rate from this than you are when dropping randomly and not overlapping search radius?
 
The radius of the probe means nothing, mine as if the radius is 1.

Also from yesterday, I no longer mine randomly.

I ran a vein from treasure island riverside all the way north to the mobs and back again, the only time I missed was when the server recalculated the spawns.

ZPF said:
Could be attributed to a lot of things...

The real question is, are you seeing the same hit rate from this than you are when dropping randomly and not overlapping search radius?
Click to expand...
 
R4tt3xx said:
I ran a vein from treasure island riverside all the way north to the mobs and back again, the only time I missed was when the server recalculated the spawns.
Click to expand...
That is quite an achievement, got a picture of this? :)
 
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I will do another run tonight..

QUOTE=M Rufen Power;3430692]That is quite an achievement, got a picture of this? :)[/QUOTE]
 
I am thinking along the lines if a hybird model.

Some deposits are located on a grid, the grid is periodicity wiped, recalculated and redistributed every x amount of time.

The second spawn mechanic comes from the tool itself and is there simply to create noise.

There are 2 more that I cant really express non mathematically at the moment.

Regarding my returns, the variation in loot seems to be disappearing.
 
Finally, I can say that this happened to me last night, a mis-click resulted in obtaining a claim with out moving..

I still personally think that that the resource grid is erased, recalculated, then reapplied to the game.
 
R4tt3xx said:
Finally, I can say that this happened to me last night, a mis-click resulted in obtaining a claim with out moving..

I still personally think that that the resource grid is erased, recalculated, then reapplied to the game.
Click to expand...
A claim after an NRF is not unlikely to occur. Regardless of how the system may handle this loot distribution, how are your findings overall on tt returns?
 
One day is good, the next day is bad. I have a very simplified mining sheet running at the moment using a 4 day cycle, I have already confirmed that today is day 3 and is using day 3's pattern (which is a highly modified number spiral). I will put a post up when I have cycled through 4 days worth of predictions.

The system is not static and can change from one system to another as soon as a high deposit has been found. It's almost like the resources are waiting there to be found, as soon as it is, the system removes all the claims, recalculates and redistributes the loot. I just wish it could do this in real time, I hate missing with a probe where I know something should exist.

Sizes are mostly 3, 4 and 5, just like everyone else. I have ideas on how the higher end loots may work, but I want to nail down the basics first.


M Rufen Power said:
A claim after an NRF is not unlikely to occur. Regardless of how the system may handle this loot distribution, how are your findings overall on tt returns?
Click to expand...
 
I take it that you have seen the small clusters then. I have mined them up at the treasure island and pvp tps.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the fields grow and shrink..



QUOTE=M Rufen Power;3431468]I love this statement, could not have said it better myself +rep.[/QUOTE]
 
No idea but a couple days ago I was mining for both ore and en matter on caly. Click drop found enmatter right next to me so not moving I meant click on extractor and i clicked to drop another bomb accident found Ore. LIKE WHAT did I despawn Enmatter to spawn Ore or somehow at that exact point an ore spawn, otherwise why didn't my first drop find that ore.
 
Autobot said:
No idea but a couple days ago I was mining for both ore and en matter on caly. Click drop found enmatter right next to me so not moving I meant click on extractor and i clicked to drop another bomb accident found Ore. LIKE WHAT did I despawn Enmatter to spawn Ore or somehow at that exact point an ore spawn, otherwise why didn't my first drop find that ore.
Click to expand...
Because the first drop your probe though can go as far as your finder in depth, hit the wrong 1M square which it then hit on the second drop. Like the comment above every drop has a radius of 1M per claim.

Or alternatively the server spawned the resource right after your first drop. When you dropped found the first claim server refreshed the ground and resource distribution as R4tt3xx above exclaimed.
 
M Rufen Power said:
Because the first drop your probe though can go as far as your finder in depth, hit the wrong 1M square which it then hit on the second drop. Like the comment above every drop has a radius of 1M per claim.

Or alternatively the server spawned the resource right after your first drop. When you dropped found the first claim server refreshed the ground and resource distribution as R4tt3xx above exclaimed.
Click to expand...

Imagine a fractal, ie an image of inifite size that no matter how much you zoom, it always looks the same. In order to trigger the event that generates a claim you have to stand at the right location within your mining radius.

I seem to have identified 4 of these locations that cycle thru and seem to change as soon as a global is found.

First is edge which exists right in the blind spot of your diameter grid ie the corner.

Second is the middle.

Third is a bit hard to explain, its the last spot that can be found if the mining diameter were a spiral.

Forth is the average of all 3 with the coordinates of the avatar.

There is a pattern but its obfescated by the same pattern at both a smaller and larger scale which growth seems to be related to the amount of time an avatar spends online.

If Mindark does use the avatars total time online as the current size of the array / circle, its going to be extremely difficult to find.
 
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