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Question: How Ring's buffs work?

Teiwaz Storm

Teiwaz Storm

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Teiwaz Storm Ing
I saw/heard few times people stating that Ring's buffs increase Evader profession level, for example let's consider

Athenic Ring Modified

athemod.jpg


Dmatrix said:
So an avatar with Lvl 50 evader acts as if it has Lvl 58 evader, same for dodger etc. Not bad at all i suppose, if this is indeed correct. :D Good luck with sale.
Click to expand...

Does it really increase Evader level by 1.16 factor?

Item description on MA's website states "Increased Evade, Dodge and Jamming Chance".
I doubt that increasing Evader level by 16% would result in linear increase of evading chance by 16% (ofcourse I might understand evading wrongly).
Therefore if taking MA's description, it would not mean increasing Evader level profession but rather % chance to evade that results from avatar's Evader level and mob level.

Do I think in a right direction?
 
Fact is no one knows. The most logical is that it increases evader level by 16%. We know that evade has dimenishing returns so you can take that for whatever it's worth.

Until mindark publishes a character sheet when you look at the inventory screen, we will have to do extensive testing to determine benefits and hope that it is correct.
 
atomicstorm said:
The most logical is that it increases evader level by 16%.
Click to expand...

As I said in OP, I doubt that % increase of level results in same % increased chance to evade.
Therefore I will wait for someone who understands better than me how evading works.

Doer maybe?
 
hunt same thing for 15 minutes. both with and without ring. my guess is you will be hit 16% less times with ring

"increase ... evade chance"
 
Could be a number of things:

  • % effective increase to Evader etc professions
  • % effective increase to Evade etc skills, therefore a smaller % effect on the professions
  • Absolute % increase to chance to evade, i.e. a mob that never misses would instead miss you 16% of the time, in the case of this ring
  • Relative % increase to chance to evade, which would mean a mob that never misses would still never miss

Should be quite easy to rule out one or more of these by testing against a mob that never misses with your normal un-ringed skill levels.
 
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Oleg said:
Could be a number of things:

  • % effective increase to Evader etc professions
  • % effective increase to Evade etc skills, therefore a smaller % effect on the professions
  • Absolute % increase to chance to evade, i.e. a mob that never misses would instead miss you 16% of the time, in the case of this ring
  • Relative % increase to chance to evade, which would mean a mob never misses would still never miss
Click to expand...

Or a % modifier to some coefficient in a formula that we do not know.

(Remember auction fee reduction - oh well, that formula we sort of know; but then, we still do not really know, for example, how "skill boost" % works)
 
Haruto Rat said:
Or a % modifier to some coefficient in a formula that we do not know.
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I'm struggling to see how that could work in a way that would make sense of the item description, but I know MA too well to expect everything to make sense :D
 
Dont forget that for PVE (mobs, robots) we are caped.
You can have 100 lvls more than mob but mob will still hit you.
So ring can help a lot if you are close to mob lvl but after that it dont have any effect.
 
Oleg said:
Could be a number of things:

  • % effective increase to Evader etc professions
  • % effective increase to Evade etc skills, therefore a smaller % effect on the professions
  • Absolute % increase to chance to evade, i.e. a mob that never misses would instead miss you 16% of the time, in the case of this ring
  • Relative % increase to chance to evade, which would mean a mob that never misses would still never miss

Should be quite easy to rule out one or more of these by testing against a mob that never misses with your normal un-ringed skill levels.
Click to expand...

Bumping to suggest someone with the ring do a few tests as Oleg describes. His list seems pretty complete.

Here's some background on evade/evader to give context to Oleg's list.
 
Hey Tei, I think it's pretty easy to find out :) Take a Chip that increases acceleration and take a Walk around. You will always be the Same % faster than without the Ring. So in my opinion the % are fixed.

greetz
 
Premutos said:
Hey Tei, I think it's pretty easy to find out :) Take a Chip that increases acceleration and take a Walk around. You will always be the Same % faster than without the Ring. So in my opinion the % are fixed.

greetz
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Hey Premu,

Acceleration and other rings buffs are pretty self explaining.
I created this topic wondering about Athenic ring - yes, title could be more specific ;)
 
im level 46.5 evader, i used the athenic adjusted that has 8% evade.

i saw no discernible difference when i had the ring on or not, my decay bill was pretty much the same. and the mobs hit pretty much the same. i did notice the decrease in crit size from creature to player though.

either my evader is far to low to see an effect or the buff is not turned on/bugged doesnt work.
 
I believe this raises the skill level itself by the %, which then modifies the profession a bit.
I have the augmented 20%.

So at 5k evade, I should be an effective 6k evade. and the profession adjusts accordingly.
My 42 Evader is probably bumped to an effective 48ish or something.

This does not mean that you get hit 20% less, and it does not reflect that theory. I get hit less, but only about as much as the jump in profession would give me, which is still pretty noticeable with the 20% ring.

That being said, I believe that this also makes the skill gains slow down to the inflated diminishing return rates of that later profession level.
 
is says EVADE not EVADER so it increase your skill by x% and not your level of evader in that manner. :dunce:
 
sidxx said:
im level 46.5 evader, i used the athenic adjusted that has 8% evade.

i saw no discernible difference when i had the ring on or not, my decay bill was pretty much the same. and the mobs hit pretty much the same. i did notice the decrease in crit size from creature to player though.

either my evader is far to low to see an effect or the buff is not turned on/bugged doesnt work.
Click to expand...

I believe its % of evader because of this

Some mobs you "max out" the evade chance at certain lvl and others only start missing you at certain lvls
Take example of Atrox, misses a lot without having the most colossal evade.
Or take example of Hogglo, barelly or will never miss you under lvl 30 evader (unless its changed).

You might've tested on a mob that even 8% wouldnt help.
When i tested i did feel the diference, got hit far less on mobs that would miss me very few times (i used the 16% one when i did the test).
 
If MA offered for sale a ring, that had the potential to enable you to loot a mob at 50% of it's HP, would you want it?

There're such rings in game. Taming rings, add a fairly common "rare" pet that gives 15% bonus on taming skills as well, and you've probably got a combination that will beat any weapon in game. (not to mention the skill values, if that's your thing).

Get one of the best taming rings on the market, and it should be a walk in the park, even with L whips.

The community don't see it though, dumping their taming rings like they're junk. I was going to keep my mouth shut until I got a perfected, but hey I'm happy.

For taming it's not about percentages of skill, it's about the likelihood of taming a creature at first attempt, then second attempt etc at the lowest mob HP possible.

Now..roll on two years and tamable big mobs, imagine taming them at 50% HP.

Don't forget you get loot taming, just like hunting. But with hunting you've got to take out all the HP, beat that with a mod merc :p

Happy hunting

Rick
 
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RickEngland said:
If MA offered for sale a ring, that had the potential to enable you to loot a mob at 50% of it's HP, would you want it?

There're such rings in game. Taming rings, add a fairly common "rare" pet that gives 15% bonus on taming skills as well, and you've probably got a combination that will beat any weapon in game. (not to mention the skill values, if that's your thing).

Get one of the best taming rings on the market, and it should be a walk in the park, even with L whips.

The community don't see it though, dumping their taming rings like they're junk. I was going to keep my mouth shut until I got a perfected, but hey I'm happy.

For taming it's not about percentages of skill, it's about the likelihood of taming a creature at first attempt, then second attempt etc at the lowest mob HP possible.

Now..roll on two years and tamable big mobs, imagine taming them at 50% HP.

Don't forget you get loot taming, just like hunting. But with hunting you've got to take out all the HP, beat that with a mod merc :p

Happy hunting

Rick
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The loot is proportional to DAMAGE done to mob during taming procedure - so the ring just increases number of sucesfull tamed mobs per hour - thats it.

If you need to deal ~80% damage and then sucesfuly tame - you get 80% of normal loot (on average). If you need only 50% then you get only 50% loot - simple is that.

Easy to test and verify by yourself ;).

You also get skills on failed tame attempt so skills per hour are probably about the same with and without ring too.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Some Doer skills are needed here :yay:
 
Falagor said:
The loot is proportional to DAMAGE done to mob during taming procedure - so the ring just increases number of sucesfull tamed mobs per hour - thats it.

If you need to deal ~80% damage and then sucesfuly tame - you get 80% of normal loot (on average). If you need only 50% then you get only 50% loot - simple is that.

Easy to test and verify by yourself ;).

You also get skills on failed tame attempt so skills per hour are probably about the same with and without ring too.

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

Well that would be the most obvious and logical way anyone with a brain would assess it, although you don't have access to the actual loot programming do you? Not to mention loot is dynamic.

For instance successful tames could have a direct impact on globals, we don't know. Speed to tame could also have some consequences. I'm sure the rings have a lot more use than simply more tames per hour.

Put it this way, there's always been much discussion on compensation of peds spent "to a limit" but we don't know what that limit is. Now if the ring takes you under the limit or on the border of that limit, there's potential for better returns.

I liked the Mod taming ring, the Augmented I like even more.

But hey; I've always liked to believe.

Regards

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
(...)

But hey; I've always liked to believe.

Regards

Rick
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Of course nothign wrong with that ;).

Sadly i have some sort of proof:
try taming combibo young with dominax viper (or the (L) garter).

If you bring the spirit down and respect up AND let the bibo regen to full hp - then tame it - you will get wierd message saying something that the creature loot can't be distributed (i don't remember it exactly). But of course you sitll get the pet (and no loot at all - and not even a message about no looter).

So this is obvious mechanics that amount of hp remanin takes huge part in looting mechanics (and if you somehow manage to loot creature with 100% hp you get no loot and wierd message).

PS: this happened to me accidently actually when i wanted to tame one (just one to have each of the commons in storage) - then i got curious and repeated it few more times and got same result.

@edit:
sorry for going offtopic a bit - i have no inupt on the evasive ring since i use hermetic on my left ;).
Nice Hermetic + bunny buff = 100% evasion no matter what your evader level is ;) (*).

(*) aplies only to hunting slow mobs that you can outrun...

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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