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No more magical safe zones!

Xane

Xane

Old Alpha
Banned
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Jan 11, 2012
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717
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USA
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Nebula Virus Elite
Avatar Name
Kane Xane Crossing
I'm tired of these unexplained magic safe zones around the space stations that stop you from doing damage when firing at other ships.

The way I would like it to work:

Have npc ships patrolling around the station areas and when someone fires on another ship that triggers the npc's to engage the aggressive ship. If you have a certain negative karma rating you are automatically targeted by theses npc's. Make these npc's lootable too.
 
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Xane said:
I'm tired of these unexplained magic safe zones around the space stations that stop you from doing damage when firing at other ships.

The way I would like it to work:

Have npc ships patrolling around the station areas and when someone fires on another ship that triggers the npc's to engage the aggressive ship. If you have a certain negative karma rating you are automatically targeted by theses npc's. Make these npc's lootable too.
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And how will you leave the SS when spawned? (after entering Space from dirtside or being shot down or CTD, etc)

If half-dead and burning is ok... :scratch2:
 
Svena said:
Hes just butthurt that him and his soc lost their exploitative edge in space. Ignore the forum troll and move on.
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That's really an uneducated thing to say.
 
Fifth said:
And how will you leave the SS when spawned? (after entering Space from dirtside or being shot down or CTD, etc)

If half-dead and burning is ok... :scratch2:
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You would leave and enter exactly as you do now there just wouldn't be a safe zone.
 
NPCs attacking would create a cheaper way to do some skilling in space... :)
 
Xane said:
Have npc ships patrolling around the station areas ... [snip] If you have a certain negative karma rating you are automatically targeted by theses npc's. ...
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So u're spawning at the SS, your Karma reads "Outcast" and all the NPC ships start firing at you at once.
Suppose ur captain lvl is high and aim very good, so u manage to take out a few before u go down. Respawn inside SS, wait for the ship to return to inv, spawn it, repair it, take off again. By that time those NPC ships have all respawned.
They have to respawn fast, otherwise it's too easy to kill them all off and rule the whole area around SS - no safe zone, no NPC ships.

So far we talk about single pirate Vs. SS. We haven't even considered team tactics. 2-3 pirate ships working as a team. Some provide distraction, drag the NPC ships away while others kill off all the green ships right at the SS.

Don't get me wrong, i think u have something there with this idea but knowing MA's expertise with mob/NPC AI this system would be impossible to balance fairly for both sides (travelers/pirates) i'm afraid...

Which is sad actually, cuz I would love more fun in this game, Space included.
 
Fifth said:
So u're spawning at the SS, your Karma reads "Outcast" and all the NPC ships start firing at you at once.
Suppose ur captain lvl is high and aim very good, so u manage to take out a few before u go down. Respawn inside SS, wait for the ship to return to inv, spawn it, repair it, take off again. By that time those NPC ships have all respawned.
They have to respawn fast, otherwise it's too easy to kill them all off and rule the whole area around SS - no safe zone, no NPC ships.

So far we talk about single pirate Vs. SS. We haven't even considered team tactics. 2-3 pirate ships working as a team. Some provide distraction, drag the NPC ships away while others kill off all the green ships right at the SS.

Don't get me wrong, i think u have something there with this idea but knowing MA's expertise with mob/NPC AI this system would be impossible to balance fairly for both sides (travelers/pirates) i'm afraid...

Which is sad actually, cuz I would love more fun in this game, Space included.
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So add to this idea that when you get killed by an npc you re spawn at the pirate base and now you must rethink do you want to risk an engagement....

and I don't think it would be too hard to balance, if a ship is damaged in what used to be the safe zone the ship that dealt the damage would become the npc's target for a period of time. OFC the system could be manipulated with teams of pirates but what system can't be manipulated with groups working together? Also with the idea that you would spawn far away from anywhere else if killed makes the fight not without risk.
 
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I have a better idea. Reduce space pvp zone to TG areas only, so thieves stop bothering others.
 
About 'no safe zones': that is bad idea. It will allow pirates to shoot immediately and kill ships in the red zone more quickly. I do not think it's right. As for described NPC's - in space is enough mobs - go and have fun.
 
i have better idea

remove safezone like u want, but also remove lootable too:wise:
 
Xane said:
So add to this idea that when you get killed by an npc you re spawn at the pirate base and now you must rethink do you want to risk an engagement....
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OK, that would solve leaving the SS problem nicely.
The balancing act against unknown number of pirate ships by the congenially stupid AI of the NPC ships still remains. Suppose we (peaceful travelers) accept the risk of the SS being overrun by the overwhelming pirate force. Suppose the balance point is fine tuned to be able to whitstand 3 attackers. If there's more, there will be civil causalties. Would be OK by me.
One can easily imagine the shitstorm if MA would really implement something like this thou... Too many crybabies here, way too many for a really fun game. :cool:
 
And naturally persons shot down by the NPC towers (not ships) would need to be looted and their loot distributed to other means somehow. to avoid pirates rushing in, killing one ship, getting shot down by npc and respawning inside and tt'ing loot.

:)

Edit: I am sure it would never work in reality... too many loopholes. But funny idea
 
sbi said:
And naturally persons shot down by the NPC towers (not ships) would need to be looted and their loot distributed to other means somehow. to avoid pirates rushing in, killing one ship, getting shot down by npc and respawning inside and tt'ing loot.

:)

Edit: I am sure it would never work in reality... too many loopholes. But funny idea
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That might seem like a loophole to you but it's really not. Imagine you are a pirate and someone spawns, you rush in and kill the target before the npc's kill you. Your target is empty as is 90% of everyone you kill and your spawned in pirate base. You make the long trip back to caly. how many times do you think you would try that tactic before changing your strategy?
 
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Depending on the PC's performance, it may take over a minute for the environment to load up after leaving a planet/SS, during which the player don't even see what's happening around his avatar/ship and could be killed 10 times over if there were no safe zones. Can't see how it's fair.
 
TBH I have never understood why all ships spawn in space at the honeypot SS safe zone, it is illogical for 2 reasons. Firstly pirates know exactly where to camp to catch the unwary..2nd if we can enter atmo over a broad area, we should also be able to leave atmo over the same area.

Quads / sleips leaving planet should be able to choose their spawn point within a band around the planet, some parts of which (near SS) could be safe zones the rest pvp. The band could be right across the leading face of the planet for upto say .5 AU from planet and at an elevation of +/-500 (don't shoot me over the figures I am kinda thinking aloud here, you think they are too large/small then go ahead and suggest alternatives.)

But

Like when you tp to a mob spawn the first 20 secs you are in a safe bubble and have time for things to render properly and orient yourself before you can get shot at.

This way you give player choice.. safe zone camped by pirates, or take a chance that the pos you choose to spawn at is clear.

Maybe the NPC option could be worked in too, but patrolling the whole area. I do have my doubts about this however, as not only is the karma system broken (pirates could reset Karma to fair and never get shot) but also if it reacts to someone starting a pvp fight then they could get shot down by the NPC when they are a traveller just taking pre-emptive strike against known pirate. Interesting thought though.
 
Svarog said:
Depending on the PC's performance, it may take over a minute for the environment to load up after leaving a planet/SS, during which the player don't even see what's happening around his avatar/ship and could be killed 10 times over if there were no safe zones. Can't see how it's fair.
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Your not seeing the big picture....your just looking at one potential out come. Pirates would not be sitting in the spawn zone waiting to kill new spawns because the cost would be too high for non looters. If a pirate was killed by an npc and had to fly back from pirate base imagine all those that would now be safe to fly during that time.
 
Granny Rowan said:
Like when you tp to a mob spawn the first 20 secs you are in a safe bubble and have time for things to render properly and orient yourself before you can get shot at.

This way you give player choice.. safe zone camped by pirates, or take a chance that the pos you choose to spawn at is clear.
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My problem with this is the same I have with the current safe zones. There is no in game explanation for this magical safety bubble you are in and why it goes away after 20 seconds. Is it a shield? why can't you have it on all the time? Things like unexplained safe zones are a constant reminder that you are playing a game and not a role.
 
Xane said:
There is no in game explanation for this magical safety bubble...
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Well, there's your problem. It's not a magical bubble, it's a sci-fi bubble. In a game.

I failed to review the documents fully explaining the teleporters, but hey, I just run with it. :)
 
Svarog said:
Depending on the PC's performance, it may take over a minute for the environment to load up after leaving a planet/SS, during which the player don't even see what's happening around his avatar/ship and could be killed 10 times over if there were no safe zones. Can't see how it's fair.
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That's a fair point. The actual experience of every player is important. For someone who will be spawning into warzone and is killed without even seeing what killed him... that would be unacceptable.

There's a way around it, spawn the incoming ships inside SS. By the time you fly out the system should make sure the surrounding area has fully loaded. Might be too much for MA to code maybe, but definitely doable from purely technical viewpoint.
 
Xane said:
If a pirate was killed by an npc and had to fly back from pirate base imagine all those that would now be safe to fly during that time.
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There would be enormous number of pirate-wannabes preying on helpless spawners. Zero needed skills for shooting an immobile blind target - every landlubbing asshole who barely can fly his sleipnir planetside would create an alt for that. In fact, there might be no work left for real pirates :)
 
Svarog said:
There would be enormous number of pirate-wannabes preying on helpless spawners. Zero needed skills for shooting an immobile blind target - every landlubbing asshole who barely can fly his sleipnir planetside would create an alt for that. In fact, there might be no work left for real pirates :)
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I think enough ideas have been suggested in this thread alone that could prevent that.
 
last time I entered space from caly I was spawned in PVP lootable. before I was even loaded in fully I was killed by <removed>

I found it to be total bullshit
 
So Xane is already blocked again? o_O Wth happened this time?
 
The problem is a lazy fat ass programmer. As long someone pay his/her bills, that's why we almost have no lag or bugs and have inovations on game every week.
 
So your problem isn't with the safe zones, it's simply that you don't understand 25th century technology.
 
Xane said:
Imagine you are a pirate and someone spawns, you rush in and kill the target before the npc's kill you. Your target is empty as is 90% of everyone you kill and your spawned in pirate base. You make the long trip back to caly. how many times do you think you would try that tactic before changing your strategy?
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Right, pretty soon u have to figure out a way to avoid getting shot down by the NPC ships. Two ways to do that:
1) gather more pirates and try to distract NPC ships, or
2) avoid entering the danger zone, keep lurking around it.

First option won't work very long. The amount of players with loot stays the same, it's always about 10% of all travelers. If there's too many pirates competing for this loot soon the weaker ones will "starve to death" and leave (the same general logic as with the demography of predators and herbivores in the nature).

Second option in fact re-creates the same safety bubble but with one important difference - with the new "bubble" the pirates can't follow you directly through the center of the bubble, they have to take a long way around. It's possible to slip away from SS unnoticed with our current system. With the new proposed system, it would be much easier to shake off the camping pirate and get away from SS safely. Not even considering the "pirateless gaps" that will occur each time they manage to get killed by the patrol ships... Heh, looks like replacing the safe zone with NPC ships would make life for pirates much harder than it is now. U sure u even want this? ;)
 
Xane said:
My problem with this is the same I have with the current safe zones. There is no in game explanation for this magical safety bubble you are in and why it goes away after 20 seconds. Is it a shield? why can't you have it on all the time? Things like unexplained safe zones are a constant reminder that you are playing a game and not a role.
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If you are looking for an explanation... then first tell me why fish loot wool?
What they should do is get rid of the same spots where everyone enters space so people don't camp them. I don't know how a SS being a safe zone is unexplained or confusing to you. You want total anarchy up in space with no safe zones? Then no one would ever go and ... ah man I just won't say anything more because I just want to say negative things about pirates...
 
Murkalael said:
The problem is a lazy fat ass programmer. As long someone pay his/her bills, that's why we almost have no lag or bugs and have inovations on game every week.
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ahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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