IMP FAP tier valuation

Crone

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Joshua Crone Craftson
Crone, as you might know, bought an IMP FAP and he chose to buy the cheapest one available disregarding any tiers. The reason for this are, in his opinion the usefulness of the tiers no the IMP FAP.

The costs are very high. As a (bew) healer Crone is interested in 2 things: 1 making hours, 2 heal very cheap.

This is a price check thread so Crone has to be careful as to how to formulate his questions:

How does it help Crone to have higher tiers on an IMP FAP and what is the value of each tier up to tier 5 (Crone believes is the highest atm)? Which sounds like 2 questions, but in fact is only one.

To decide on value it is not the cost to tier, but the valuation of the benefits. Then one can compare the benefit to the cost and decide if it is a good investment.

Thank you for your opinions!
 
Ask yourself the following question:

"Am I stopping at Imp FAP?"

Yes? Then DO tier up.

No? Then DO NOT bother tiering up.


Maybe this is a simplified version, but you get the idea. It's worth tiering up IF you are not planning any upgrades. If you are, I'd advise you to save the money for the upgrade.


Hope it helps!
 
What I understand of your question is: Will tiering up your Improved Fap increase your revenue?

As a service provider, you will be overhealing most of the time with the basic Tier 0 fap. There will be very few occassions where an extra tier will make a difference in the hunters suvival. It will increase your costs as an Improved fapper; thus reducing your net earnings.

A hunter who uses an Improved Fap to self-heal will want the most bang for the buck. They will want to heal up in one click; what you as a service provider can do in two. So the hunter will find a benefit from a higher tiered fap.

Hunters who require more heal can hire a Mod Fapper, or change which maturity of the mob they hunt, or hire an additional small decay fapper, or...
 
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Hunters who require more heal can hire a Mod Fapper, or change which maturity of the mob they hunt, or hire an additional small decay fapper, or...

Or just hire high tiered imp fapper which happened for me so many times when others try to find job with their tier 1 imp faps. :) there just isnt enough mod faps offering work so.

Its everyones own opinion does tier matter or not :)
 
Ask yourself the following question:

"Am I stopping at Imp FAP?"

Yes? Then DO tier up.

No? Then DO NOT bother tiering up.


Maybe this is a simplified version, but you get the idea. It's worth tiering up IF you are not planning any upgrades. If you are, I'd advise you to save the money for the upgrade.


Hope it helps!

Ok... you should know by now I would ask for the numbers... Can you add numbers to your simplified version?
 
So, working numbers;

Improved Fap Tier 1.9 @ 70K vs
Improved Fap Tier 4.2 @ 90K

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=FAP&name=Omegaton_Fast_Aid_Pack_Improved
Improved Fap Tier 1.9 --> upgrade to 4.2 according to entropedia @ MU (3212.22+5315.39+10141.86) = 18669.47
So we can immediately see that the price paid for these faps is close to the MU difference by Tier level. Not counting Tier Salvage % or time value to get the tiering clicks. ( MU on entropedia is often out-of-date; so use caution as a reference point. )

If prices hold steady on the value of Improved Faps, then based on only these two sales, raw tiering costs are fully covered by sales price.

This would answer the question: Can I recover the tiering costs when I sell the fap? It would appear so.

The separate question is: Will the additional tiers 2,3,4 improve your net revenue? I would look to Chiee and ask: out of the hundreds of fap jobs he did with his Tier 4.2 fap, how many of those jobs "required" heal enhancers 2,3,4 as a condition of the work? And how did the additional decay costs & enhancer breakage impact his net return on the job?

There may also be a "marketing" advantage to advertising a fap's tier level. Though my personal experience with the faps I have used over the years will be different; since I seldom advertise my fap's tier levels.
 
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my Imp is Tir 4 - with heal enhancer I can do 144 heal / use.
At Tir 6 it will be 156 / use (nearly Mod FAP level)
At Tir 7 its 162 / use (above Mod FAP level)

So you become competitive to unenhanced Mod FAPs, and can charge ModFAP rate for your enhanced Imp FAP.

Actually I offer my service enhanced at ModFAP rate (60/h), that normally covers the broken enhancers and gives slightly better income.

Why Tir Imp FAP? Because you can :D
 
So, working numbers;

Improved Fap Tier 1.9 @ 70K vs
Improved Fap Tier 4.2 @ 90K

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=FAP&name=Omegaton_Fast_Aid_Pack_Improved
Improved Fap Tier 1.9 --> upgrade to 4.2 according to entropedia @ MU (3212.22+5315.39+10141.86) = 18669.47
So we can immediately see that the price paid for these faps is close to the MU difference by Tier level. Not counting Tier Salvage % or time value to get the tiering clicks. ( MU on entropedia is often out-of-date; so use caution as a reference point. )

If prices hold steady on the value of Improved Faps, then based on only these two sales, raw tiering costs are fully covered by sales price.

This would answer the question: Can I recover the tiering costs when I sell the fap? It would appear so.

The seperate question is: Will the additional tiers 2,3,4 improve your net revenue? I would look to Chiee and ask: out of the hundreds of fap jobs he did with his Tier 4.2 fap, how many of those jobs "required" heal enhancers 2,3,4 as a condition of the work. And how did the additional decay costs & enhancer breakage impact his net return on the job.

There may also be a "marketing" advantage to advertising a fap's tier level. Though my personal experience with the faps I have used over the years will be different; since I seldom advertise my fap's tier levels.

The cost of the tiered FAP should not depend on the cost to tier, but on the additional benefits. So far I did not see any. 18k costs means 180 extra jobs of 100 ped profit. Still not counting the enhancer costs...
 
my Imp is Tir 4 - with heal enhancer I can do 144 heal / use.
At Tir 6 it will be 156 / use (nearly Mod FAP level)
At Tir 7 its 162 / use (above Mod FAP level)

So you become competitive to unenhanced Mod FAPs, and can charge ModFAP rate for your enhanced Imp FAP.

Actually I offer my service enhanced at ModFAP rate (60/h), that normally covers the broken enhancers and gives slightly better income.

Why Tir Imp FAP? Because you can :D

So 60 ped per hour would be 10 ped more profit - enhancer costs. 18k / 10 ped = 1800 hours which is 1 year 5 hours a day every day. Still not counting enhancer costs.

Noone has any numbers that makes sense? So far it seems dumb to pay 18k extra for a tiered imp fap. Unless ofcourse you count the "because you can" reason. That of course can be valid :D

Crone is not convinced at all.
 
over 1500 hours of imp fapping i had 1 customer that needed a tier 2 imp fap minimum.
so basically 99,9% didnt need a higher tier/enhancers when i had an imp fap.

Considering the 10 months when there is no migration there are enough mod fappers around and not a lot of hunters. There was almost always a mod fapper available.

Letting the hunter provide enhancers will make your decay go up with 10% each enhancer slot.
Not sure if they will pay more than 50 ped/hour outside migration when there are other mod/imp fappers out there.

When tiering the fap, it will increase in value. If you decide to sell it in a year or two, you need to find some1 who can actually pay the fap. A higher price makes it harder to find a buyer that pays in peds/cld.
It took me 8 months till I found some1 that paid in pure ped.

Maybe I sold my fap (tier1) too cheap or maybe chiee sold his fap(tier 4) too high. But after 8 months of no offers i thought f*ck it market crashes.

At this point it seems the cost to tier are in the value of the fap, but can you find another person thats willing to pay full tier cost? Thats a risk i never took.

Thats why I never tiered it.
 
So 60 ped per hour would be 10 ped more profit - enhancer costs. 18k / 10 ped = 1800 hours which is 1 year 5 hours a day every day. Still not counting enhancer costs.

Well some people plan long time:

After enhancer break count 6 PED additional / h
18k / 6 = 3000h to cover the costs
I am lazy only 3h / day FAPing
That means 1000 days roughly 3 years to recover the PED from service.
 
As a healer you only need to answer the question: Will I ever be able to recover those addional 18 K with that higher tiered Fap?

Can you make more money per hour with Tier 4? I doubt it
Can you gain more customers with Tier 4? I guess: very seldom maybe

= I would buy the cheap one :)

Well some people plan long time:

After enhancer break count 6 PED additional / h
18k / 6 = 3000h to cover the costs
I am lazy only 3h / day FAPing
That means 1000 days roughly 3 years to recover the PED from service.
If you get the same payment/hour and you fap 3 hours/day anyway you basically only wasted 18 K :p
 
my Imp is Tir 4 - with heal enhancer I can do 144 heal / use.
At Tir 6 it will be 156 / use (nearly Mod FAP level)
At Tir 7 its 162 / use (above Mod FAP level)

So you become competitive to unenhanced Mod FAPs, and can charge ModFAP rate for your enhanced Imp FAP.

Actually I offer my service enhanced at ModFAP rate (60/h), that normally covers the broken enhancers and gives slightly better income.

Why Tir Imp FAP? Because you can :D

If some1 hires you it will be for big mobs which is usually done with a mod fapper.
Lets assume you can keep up with a slower heal rate / min and do eomon or dasp.
doing dasp/ eomon on ubers is nearly 20 ped / hour decay. lets say 17,50 ped / hour to be safe.

17,50 * 0,2 ( 4 enhancers active) = 3,5 ped extra fee.
during that hour you did 800-1000 clicks = 2-4 enhancers breaking ? ( you know better since i barely used enhancers on the imp fap.
each enhancer has 40 pec tt value with a mu of 300% +- ( during migration) = 1,2 ped / enhancer

breaking 0 enhancers result in 6,5 ped / hour more income
breaking 1 result in 5.3 ped more income
breaking 2 result in 4.1 ped more income
breaking 3 result in 2.9 ped more income
breaking 4 result in 1.7 ped more income
etc

note: since you heal higher each click, you might need fewer clicks each hour which result in less fap decay unless you overheal a lot ( thnx dolly)

I dont see the difference in peds, maybe its more in demand when there are no mod fappers outside migration?
 
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only 5% ? then its 3,5 ped +- more decay + possible enhancers break vs 10 ped / hour more turnover
still not much more profit vs the cost to tier.
 
In fact there is more need for speed than extra heals. More often than needing enhancers, you need a little more speed, so it might even be of more benefit to get a source of faster healing (whether that be one of those Thorifoid helmets, or a ring, or whatever).
 
So far it seems the benefits of a tier 4 imp fap are very small compared to a tier 0 imp fap. Which means higher tier faps are not worth anything more than a low tier fap?

Is there anyone that has another opinion and willing to put numbers to it?
 
only 5% ? then its 3,5 ped +- more decay + possible enhancers break vs 10 ped / hour more turnover
still not much more profit vs the cost to tier.

shure, 5 % more heal and 5 % more decay

funny thing is --> if you get the same hourly rate and pay the decay yourself you earn even less money with enhancers (mainly because of overheal)
 
breaking 0 enhancers result in 6,5 ped / hour more income
breaking 1 result in 5.3 ped more income
breaking 2 result in 4.1 ped more income
breaking 3 result in 2.9 ped more income
breaking 4 result in 1.7 ped more income
etc

???
When I get 10 PED more (60 vs 50) using enhancers, why is my income only 6.5 PED more than without enhancers?
10 - 0 = 6.5 ??? I don´t get that.

Correct data:
0 enhancer break = 10 PED more earned (rarly happens in 1 h)
1 enhancer break = 8.8 PED more earned (asuming enhancer is 300%)
2 enhancer break = 7.6 PED more earned
3 enhancer breal = 6.4 PED more earned

And earned means you have that more than just using your tir 0 FAP at 50/h

Come where you all learned math ??? Kindergarden ?

Read my last post, I calculated with 6 PED / h more income with enhanced FAP vs unenhanced one, that means on average 3 enahncer break / hour, in my calculation.
Could be worse and could be better, enhancer break still is random !
 
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???
When I get 10 PED more (60 vs 50) using enhancers, why is my income only 6.5 PED more than without enhancers?
10 - 0 = 6.5 ??? I don´t get that.

Correct data:
0 enhancer break = 10 PED more earned (rarly happens in 1 h)
1 enhancer break = 8.8 PED more earned (asuming enhancer is 300%)
2 enhancer break = 7.6 PED more earned
3 enhancer breal = 6.4 PED more earned

And earned means you have that more than just using your tir 0 FAP at 50/h

BTW 1h constant FAPing is same decay on FAP no matter if enhancers added or not, base repair cost always the same.

Come where you all learned math ??? Kindergarden ?

Read my last post, I calculated with 6 PED / h more income with enhanced FAP vs unenhanced one, that means on average 3 enahncer break / hour, in my calculation.
Could be worse and could be better, enhancer break still is random !


average decay / hour is 17,50 ped with imp fap 5% more decay each slot where an enhancer is.
4 slots used = 4 * 5% = 20%
17,50 ped * 0,2 = 3,5 ped
your turnover might be 10 ped more but the cost also increase since your fap decay goes up (depending on mob ofcourse). Thought i made this clear in my previous post ???

Are you sure you dont have more decay with 4 enhancers active compared healing without using them? This means you have a few overheals and actually have less clicks than normal?

I would say 3,5 ped more fap decay +- and your info about 3 enhancers broken per hour (300% mu atm) is 3,60 ped enhancer cost
3,5+3,6 = 7,1 ped more cost is my estimated number of cost. But if for some reason you have the same decay as without enhancers you get 6,4 ped profit.
 
Come where you all learned math ??? Kindergarden ?

Read my last post, I calculated with 6 PED / h more income with enhanced FAP vs unenhanced one, that means on average 3 enahncer break / hour, in my calculation.

quite funny from the person who missed the "the fap is decaying more part"...no you dont earn 6 Ped more when 3 enhancers break @300 % and 10 ped more/hour
 
As long as we don't know how often enhancers break, we cannot do the math. According to entropiawiki.com the decay on the tool increases with 5% per enhancer, with 4 heal enhancers that means 20% more costs. At 20 ped decay cost that means 4 ped extra costs. So if you can get 10 ped more per hour you will only gain 6 because of the extra repair costs. Still we have the lifespan of the enhancers. Mai also had a hedoc mayhem tier 4, she would burn through 2 enhancer per hour on average and bought them at 1 ped each. If this is relevant that would mean 2 ped enhancer costs and 4 ped more decay. Totals to 6 ped extra costs per hour.

10 ped more income 6 ped more costs is 4 ped more profit. So... at 20k costs for tier 0 to tier 4 divided by 4 ped more income is 5000 hours to make this break even. At 3 hours per night and 5 nights per week, 50 weeks per year (holidays) this will take you close to 6.67 years. If you manage to double the hours, for instance during the weekends it will still take over 3 years.

Crone knows what he needs to know. Tiering the imp fap is ^/&% unless you need the extra heals and don't mind the extra costs. The extra value of a tiered fap is 4 ped x the hours you plan to make with it. For example if you plan to use it 6.67 years 50 weeks a year and 15 hours per week, the value is 20k ped. If you plan to use it for 1 year, 40 weeks per year and 7 hours per week... 1120 ped. Make an educated guess which is more realistic.
 
dont forget that these 5000 hours ( from your example ) only count when you actually find some1 that pays 60 ped / hour for your fully tiered fap. Healing untiered can be done for 50 ped and you didnt have to tier it for that.
 
dont forget that these 5000 hours ( from your example ) only count when you actually find some1 that pays 60 ped / hour for your fully tiered fap. Healing untiered can be done for 50 ped and you didnt have to tier it for that.

And don't forget to include the passive income from clds whioch could have been bought for tiering costs.
 
Or the really cool gun and amp that will go with the fap...

Crone does not even know the return of a CLD... but you can buy about 11 of them for 20k. Nice.
 
over 1500 hours of imp fapping i had 1 customer that needed a tier 2 imp fap minimum.
so basically 99,9% didnt need a higher tier/enhancers when i had an imp fap.

Wow i must be then very lucky when I had way more those jobs and not that much hours :cool:
Or maybe it was because you didnt have enough tiers :ahh:
 
When tiering the fap, it will increase in value. If you decide to sell it in a year or two, you need to find some1 who can actually pay the fap. A higher price makes it harder to find a buyer that pays in peds/cld.
It took me 8 months till I found some1 that paid in pure ped.

Maybe I sold my fap (tier1) too cheap or maybe chiee sold his fap(tier 4) too high. But after 8 months of no offers i thought f*ck it market crashes.

Dont want open our private conversations about those things, but I can say I had 80k peds offer. also valued to 85k with peds + few items. Also one other buyer offered 78k pure peds from my ifap. And obv I didnt accept these offers until i got better.

Everyone haves their opinions how much ifaps shud cost and be sold :)
 
apparently :)
customers never turned me down on a tier 1 fap, besides the one that was demanding tier 2+.
They asked about my tier but in the end they didnt need enhancers and hired me anyways.
A hunter never turned me down saying " i need a tier 4 imp fap, else ill go to chiee :wtg::wtg: "

Everyone haves their opinions how much ifaps shud cost and be sold

ofcourse, its a free market :)
 
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It pays for me, thats all I need to know, and thats all I want to say.

Can´t care less if there was a cheaper one, that Crone bought 2 days befor I bought mine :D
 
Oh, you bought a new one too? Don't you love this tool?
 
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