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  1. #11
    Elite forgo's Avatar
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    I am a skeptic, and refuse to buy into them.

    Consider the design of bitcoin before the money aspect.

    This is a system that basically converts processing power into money. The designer is completely unknown, its purpose is completely unknown.

    What is known, is that in order to generate a coin, a massive amount of processing power goes into encrypted algorithms that are used to calculate or process something unknown. At this point, as a farmer, you need a hefty investment in equipment (you can no longer mine them with high end PCs in any regularity) that nearly costs as much in electricity in the end of conversion as you get in coins. That is how much is processed, server farms are the only profitable miners....

    This power collectively encroaches, and perhaps at this point surpasses NSA and Google level processing...which if anyone even knows how many server farms they have...it is insane. We are talking the ability to copy and store every detail of an entire population in short order, make assumptions based on that data, and make predictions that are scary accurate.

    This could also be enough for a group to say, hack entire government systems and gain information though sheer processing brute force, enough processing will eventually unlock very thick doors.

    It could even theoretically allow an AI to completely operate and integrate into every aspect of our lives. Look around at some of the greatest minds, and most powerful people today hawking, buffet, gates and more ...the number one fear in the world for many of them is the upcoming real threat of AI.



    Yep, I am a skeptic, and its got some fear basis to it. I fully admit it is hypothetical stuff, but a very real possibility that I cannot for certain rule out. I choose to not support bitcoin, because I cannot rule out that it may be doing bad things, even inadvertently. I hope others at least take some time to consider the warning, technology in today's age is increasingly powerful, even if it turned out to be false.

    Especially if you try and figure out just how much you need to process in order to get one single coin, or wonder what one coin even could possibly be processing.

    I worry convenience and hope for return is doing real harm thru bitcoin and no-one can verify that it isn't.
    Last edited by forgo; 08-10-2015 at 01:10.

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  2. #12
    Marauder
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    Bit coin is like any other fiat currency. There will be the fan boys who love it because it is geeky just as much as there are silver and gold bugs.

    To each their own.

  3. #13
    Dominant
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    @OP:

    People fear what they don't understand. Hell, most haven't even heard of bitcoin yet. Or just plain don't give a shit. Anyway, the masses, aka sheeple, won't be ready for bitcoin until TPTB and mainstream media tell them they are ready for bitcoin.

    Until that time arrives, we early adopters/advocates of bitcoin, aka geeks and fanboys and anyone else who has found utility in using bitcoin, whether as a store of value, a speculative tool, a way of transacting business - legal or illegal, or for some other reason since bitcoin is more than just a currency as you already know, will continue to obtain, spend/use/lose/accumulate and learn as much as we can while the naysayers carry on poo-pooing it.

    To me, these are exciting times, man. #btcFanboi4Lyfe

  4. #14
    Elite WhiningSkeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumsponge View Post
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    So, accepting Bitcoin will drive a whole new crop of players to EU? I thought they already accept Bitcoin through Netteller. What happened to that?
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiningSkeptic View Post
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    Seems like they still do:

    http://www.neteller.com/pp/bitcoin/
    Anyone know if it's accurate?

    If so, Bitcoin deposits can already be done.

  5. #15
    Prowler aVaLON_52's Avatar
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    The neteller version is actually more expensive than using credit card at the moment. It's not because Bitcoin transactions are expensive it's just the fees Neteller and MA charge. Bitcoin transactions fees are actually negligible; next to nothing.

    Apparently the acceptance of Bitcoin brings in more customers and more revenue for TigerDirect. I'm sure the same is true for many other companies as well.

    The nay-sayers argue they are not ready for cryptocurrency. Who said anything about eliminating their sacred fiat? If you don't like Bitcoin don't use it.

  6. #16
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by aVaLON_52 View Post
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    The neteller version is actually more expensive than using credit card at the moment. It's not because Bitcoin transactions are expensive it's just the fees Neteller and MA charge. Bitcoin transactions fees are actually negligible; next to nothing.

    Apparently the acceptance of Bitcoin brings in more customers and more revenue for TigerDirect. I'm sure the same is true for many other companies as well.

    The nay-sayers argue they are not ready for cryptocurrency. Who said anything about eliminating their sacred fiat? If you don't like Bitcoin don't use it.
    This. So much this.

    If MA were to add a bitcoin deposit option, it wouldn't mean all other deposit options would be eliminated and everyone would be forced into solely using bitcoin against their will.

    An added bitcoin option for deposits is just that - an added option for those with bitcoin to use in addition to all the other options currently available.

    A couple of reasons someone with bitcoin would prefer a bitcoin deposit method just off the top of my head:

    (Using a bitcoin processor like Coinbase and NOT via Neteller or converting to fiat via CC or paypal)

    1. Essentially no fees for MA to pass along. eg: deposit $1,000 US in BTC and essentially receive $1,000 US worth of PED or 10,000 PED.
    2. No personal identity info nor any bank/cc info at risk of being exposed and stolen.

    And just to add, preemptively(again), if MA were to use a bitcoin payment processor such as Coinbase, they would not be subject to the price volatility of bitcoin.

  7. #17
    Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimator View Post
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    1. Essentially no fees for MA to pass along. eg: deposit $1,000 US in BTC and essentially receive $1,000 US worth of PED or 10,000 PED.
    2. No personal identity info nor any bank/cc info at risk of being exposed and stolen.

    And just to add, preemptively(again), if MA were to use a bitcoin payment processor such as Coinbase, they would not be subject to the price volatility of bitcoin.
    1). So, why can't you just use Coinbase to convert your own Bitcoins and deposit with cash?

    2). MA and other companies have enough scrutiny from governments over anti-money laundering and anti-terrorism issues as it is. If you are depositing or withdrawing, they will always have your info on file.
    Disgusted since 2006.

  8. #18
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumsponge View Post
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    1). So, why can't you just use Coinbase to convert your own Bitcoins and deposit with cash?

    2). MA and other companies have enough scrutiny from governments over anti-money laundering and anti-terrorism issues as it is. If you are depositing or withdrawing, they will always have your info on file.
    1. Show me the option where one can deposit with cash without having to pay a vig.

    2. I wasn't refering to money-laundering or terrorism. Why do people keep bringing up old anti-bitcoin talking points which have been shot down years ago many times over already? It's much easier to commit and get away with money-laundering and funding terrorism with good old fashioned fiat currency than bitcoin.

    I was refering to identity theft. As you already must know,everytime one pays for anything with their credit card/bank transfer/paypal/etc they give full access to everything about their bank accounts to the merchant - even if just buying a pack of gum with a debit card at the store. This in turn, gives hackers who get past a merchant's security system full access to their bank accounts, passwords, etc.

    With bitcoin, there is no access given to any identifying or cc/bank account info to steal when depositing.


    *EDIT: My statement above about not having to give up any personal identifying or CC/bank account info when using a bitcoin payment processor is wrong. As Rumsponge correctly points out in his reply post below: by law, using a payment processor requires a merchant to collect a customer's identifying and financial info including their CC's and bank account(s).
    Last edited by Optimator; 08-11-2015 at 06:23. Reason: To point out a statement error I made.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimator View Post
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    2. I wasn't refering to money-laundering or terrorism. Why do people keep bringing up old anti-bitcoin talking points which have been shot down years ago many times over already? It's much easier to commit and get away with money-laundering and funding terrorism with good old fashioned fiat currency than bitcoin.
    And you missed the point. Due to the activities that you mentioned, any business that moves money around is required to maintain positively identifying information on the sources of the money. Here in the US, they are typically referred to as "know your customer" laws, but I would be extraordinarily surprised if similar laws do not exist in virtually every one of the industrialized nations.

    If you are going to be putting money into this game or taking it out, MA is going to have requested some sort of information from you that you would not want to fall into the hands of hackers.

    This has nothing to do with bitcoin, it has to do with any form of money movement. If you were to show up in Sweden with a bucket full of $100 bills and hand it to a MA employee personally, they still will most likely ask you for that sort of information.


    As far as the lack of fee, are you saying that Coinbase converts Bitcoin to USD for free?
    Disgusted since 2006.

  10. #20
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumsponge View Post
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    And you missed the point. Due to the activities that you mentioned, any business that moves money around is required to maintain positively identifying information on the sources of the money. Here in the US, they are typically referred to as "know your customer" laws, but I would be extraordinarily surprised if similar laws do not exist in virtually every one of the industrialized nations.

    If you are going to be putting money into this game or taking it out, MA is going to have requested some sort of information from you that you would not want to fall into the hands of hackers.

    This has nothing to do with bitcoin, it has to do with any form of money movement. If you were to show up in Sweden with a bucket full of $100 bills and hand it to a MA employee personally, they still will most likely ask you for that sort of information.
    You are right, Sir. And I stand corrected.

    https://www.coinbase.com/legal/privacy

    So scratch #2 off the list. I was mistakenly thinking from my perspective of paying for goods and services direclty with bitcoin (not using a processor like Coinbase). Paying with bitcoin directly makes up pretty much all of my purchasing experiences using bitcoin. In which case identifying info and cc/bank account info has never been required.

    But yes, you are right. Using a payment processor - whether its fiat currency or bitcoin would require a person to give up their identifying and cc/bank account infos as you clearly explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumsponge View Post
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    As far as the lack of fee, are you saying that Coinbase converts Bitcoin to USD for free?
    The last time I checked previous to today, one of the plans Coinbase offered merchants was their 0% plan: No merchant fee to accept payments and therefore no fees to pass on to the consumer. They made money by their exchange rates: their sell price a few dozen cents higher and their buy price a few dozen cents lower than the price on Bitfinex - the highest volume US-bitcoin exchange. I've never seen their buy/sell rates differ by more than a dollar in either direction.

    I've just checked Coinbase's site just now and it seems they now charge a 1% fee. This fee is waved on the merchant's first $1,000,000 US in merchant processing. So yeah, free until they go over $1 million, then it becomes 1%.

    So again, Sir, I stand corrected (with an asterisk this time, lol).

    Deposit $1,000 US and get 10,000 PED, until MA reaches 1 million US in bitcoin deposits, then the example becomes deposit $1,000 US and get 9,900 PED assuming MA passes along just the 1% fee.

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