The reason withdrawals take so long

ChrisHo

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In this post I will explain why withdrawals take so long. The information in this post comes from Mindarks annual financial report which you can find latest one from the link below:

http://www.mindark.com/investor-relations/financial-reports/documents/ANNUAL_REPORT_MindArk_2014.pdf

The reason withdrawals take +3 months is because MindArk doesn't actually have a cash reserve of any sort.



The image above was taken from page 5 of the report. It states that at the end of 2014 they only had 1.9M SEK (0.2M USD) in their account.

When you request a withdrawal, basically Mindark has to wait for the equivalent amount of money to be deposited in game before they can commit your withdrawal. Thats after all other costs (employee, ...) have been paid.
Although technically it would make sense to consider the following the revenue of the company:

Net Revenue = (Consumed ingame Peds) - (withdrawals) [This is NOT how MA calculates revenue]

however mindark calculates its revenue differently:


Basically revenue for mindark is:

Net Revenue = (Deposits) - (Withdrawals)

By the end of 2014 there was a total of worth of 97M SEK (10.67M USD) unconsumed PEDS ingame. If all deposts stop, (Without taking into account employee and other costs) and assuming withdrawal requests remain the same, Mindark will run out of money in only 34 days.
 
It states that at the end of 2014 they only had 1.9M SEK (0.2M USD) in their account.

Always a bit sad when people show that they don't really understand read financial statements correctly.

Net cash flow is not the same thing as cash & bank balances.
In very simple terms, net cash flow is how much more money they have coming in than they have going out.

To see how much they have as 'cash & bank balances', go to the balance sheet on page 10, where it shows it as 3 735 021 SEK - nearly double the 2 052 301 SEK they had at the same time in the previous year - and about double the annual net cash flow.
 
Always a bit sad when people show that they don't really understand read financial statements correctly.

Net cash flow is not the same thing as cash & bank balances.
In very simple terms, net cash flow is how much more money they have coming in than they have going out.

To see how much they have as 'cash & bank balances', go to the balance sheet on page 10, where it shows it as 3 735 021 SEK - nearly double the 2 052 301 SEK they had at the same time in the previous year - and about double the annual net cash flow.

Lol you took the new account with 1 post bait nicely there.
 
Yeah, this thread can be closed... ^^ Please do your homework before posting stuff like this. :wise:
 
yes, they will cover their cost before making withdraws.

I believe that the 3 months+ time is on purpose because they know that players have a threshold on withdrawing peds. If it took 1 months you might withdraw 1000 ped, if it takes 3 months you prolly spend it instead.
 
I see this thread (and others that kind) as trying to destroy EU... Total new account telling everyone that MA dont have cash... I think thread should be deleted.
 
I see this thread (and others that kind) as trying to destroy EU... Total new account telling everyone that MA dont have cash... I think thread should be deleted.

Gee - and people complain that the forum staff restrict 'freedom of speech' :D

IMHO, MindArk have nothing to hide - they publish their financial reports online for anyone to see.
While I guess there might be some privately owned companies in Australia that do that, there are none that spring to mind.

Better, I think, to point out the fallacies in the statements of people like the threadstarter (and there'll always be some).

For example:
Name any business that wouldnt 'run out of money' pretty quickly, if income stopped coming in, and expenses continued to be paid at the same rate.
I mean .. seriously ??

And this bit is a bit laughable too:
Although technically it would make sense to consider the following the revenue of the company:

Net Revenue = (Consumed ingame Peds) - (withdrawals) [This is NOT how MA calculates revenue]

Net Revenue = [Consumed ingame Peds] perhaps .. but to then subtract withdrawals from that??
Just... :laugh:
 
So, simple question - how much money do they have to cover withdrawals?

Serica?

By the end of 2014 there was a total of worth of 97M SEK (10.67M USD) unconsumed PEDS ingame. If all deposts stop, (Without taking into account employee and other costs) and assuming withdrawal requests remain the same, Mindark will run out of money in only 34 days.

I find this statement to be very disturbing
 
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So, simple question - how much money do they have to cover withdrawals?

this isnt a simple question when a business is involved usually those havnt 100 % own equity, so they need to borrow money from others and MA found a cheap way (0 % interests) to borrow it from their own customers
 
So, simple question - how much money do they have to cover withdrawals?

Serica?



I find this statement to be very disturbing

This is simple deposits - (ma expenses, pps, deed holders,etc+ withdrawals+contingency fund for low periods) Anything left after this kick out in loot pool.

Withdrawals can be very easily and discreetly controlled by simply not kicking out ubers hofs etc to players. You can bet this is controlled with an iron first. If you already have the ped on your ped card they have already accounted for it as a potential withdrawal.

Theirs a reason summer time always sucks loot wise for most is because it last majour time gaining funds for all the winter withdrawals before Christmas and theirs less deposits in general as people are outside getting sun tan whatever.

Ma is a business afterall and most likely operates as a bank would on trends.
 
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Even if the numbers was a bit off, they had 3,7MSEK in cash, I think the theory behind the OP thinking is correct, it's pretty much the same thinking I have had for a long time. If MA had more cash they would probably be able to pay the withdrawals faster.
 
Its this kind of news like bad food in senior care or insufficient hygiene in health care facilities. Everyone knows , everyone complain if its mentioned but at the end of the day its buissnes as usual and nothing really change or happen.
 
Yes Serica, how much money do they have?

Im confident MA would go belly up if too many withdrew alot at the same time.

or

Atleast withdrawals would take 2 years to process ;)
 
Even if the numbers was a bit off, they had 3,7MSEK in cash, I think the theory behind the OP thinking is correct, it's pretty much the same thinking I have had for a long time. If MA had more cash they would probably be able to pay the withdrawals faster.

ofcourse, even banks cant handle ppl emtying their accounts at the same time.
 
OFF F-:censored:-ING TOPIC




as other have said...

just about every banking institution on earth would also tank if deposits stopped and withdrawals continued.
Are you suggesting we go back to putting our cash under our beds?
If so you first and where do you live?


Congrats you win my dumbest post of the day award....

dumbarse.jpg


So, simple question - how much money do they have to cover withdrawals?

Serica?



I find this statement to be very disturbing

How the :censored: is Serica supposed to know that,you realise she doesn't work for MA.

You got a close second for the award.
 
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as other have said...

just about every banking institution on earth would also tank if deposits stopped and withdrawals continued.
Are you suggesting we go back to putting our cash under our beds?
If so you first and where do you live?
Are you saying that all the banks are a Ponzi scheme?

A good bank should definitely be able to pay all the money to it's customers, even if none is depositing money, I agree, not all at once, because most of the money are invested but if you give them enough time they should be able to transforms everything in cash, pay the customers and also have a small profit.
 
So, simple question - how much money do they have to cover withdrawals?

Serica?
...

Yes Serica, how much money do they have?

...


Was it hard to read or something?

...

To see how much they have as 'cash & bank balances', go to the balance sheet on page 10, where it shows it as 3 735 021 SEK - nearly double the 2 052 301 SEK they had at the same time in the previous year - and about double the annual net cash flow.

Tried to fix that for you.
 
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OFF F-:censored:-ING TOPIC



Are you saying that all the banks are a Ponzi scheme?

A good bank should definitely be able to pay all the money to it's customers, even if none is depositing money, I agree, not all at once, because most of the money are invested but if you give them enough time they should be able to transforms everything in cash, pay the customers and also have a small profit.


If you honestly believe that then I'm sorry the award has already been given out today.
Try again tomorrow.
 
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I think its good that there is some delay, not that I will be withdrawing, but when accounts get hacked at least there is time to sort it.
 
Are you saying that all the banks are a Ponzi scheme?

A good bank should definitely be able to pay all the money to it's customers, even if none is depositing money, I agree, not all at once, because most of the money are invested but if you give them enough time they should be able to transforms everything in cash, pay the customers and also have a small profit.


Don't know where you get ponzi scheme from????

But banks work like this.....as they have done since they were invented.

Customer A deposits £100, bank promises 1% rate
Bank lends that £100 to Customer B for mortgage, gets 2% back from customer B

Bank makes 1% (2% - 1%) on £100

Bank doesn't have the money if Customer A wants to make a 100% withdrawal.

This is how ALL banks work, if you don't like it, put your money somewhere else. I think Jod suggested under your bed??

This is of course over simplified, there are country/state guarantees. For some they guarantee up to £100k for example, but anything above that you are not guaranteed to get back if the world goes to sh*t.

If you think banks are ponzi schemes i suggest you look up conspiracy theories, sounds like you would be right at home.


Rgds

Ace
 
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Mindark is NOT a bank or financial institution in any way.

Mindark is a company that sells PEDs and running a platform where the gamingmoney can be spent.

Mindark are in not way obligated to have funds equal, or in any way, the amount of ped ingame.
 
As stated previously in the thread:

The 3 month wait for withdrawal is bound by rules because of money laundring etc.
Even if they had billions of dollars in the bank, the 3 month rule would still apply since they need time to check all logs for where that money came from and who it's going to.
 
Don't know where you get ponzi scheme from????

But banks work like this.....as they have done since they were invented.

Customer A deposits £100, bank promises 1% rate
Bank lends that £100 to Customer B for mortgage, gets 2% back from customer B

Bank makes 1% (2% - 1%) on £100

Bank doesn't have the money if Customer A wants to make a 100% withdrawal.

This is how ALL banks work, if you don't like it, put your money somewhere else. I think Jod suggested under your bed??

This is of course over simplified, there are country/state guarantees. For some they guarantee up to £100k for example, but anything above that you are not guaranteed to get back if the world goes to sh*t.

If you think banks are ponzi schemes i suggest you look up conspiracy theories, sounds like you would be right at home.


Rgds

Ace

Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Then read what the other guy said.

Then read what I said.

Then read what you said.

In the end you'll see that:
- You said exactly what I said, following your example if you give enough time the bank will give you back the 100k you deposited, bank will make 1% profit, bank doesn't need more deposits from other people to pay you!


Of course banks invest in more complicated things and lose sometimes, that's why most of the countries have laws that enforce a bank to have a minimum reserve( reported on deposits people make at that bank) that is keep by National Bank. This reserve is used if shit hits the fan.

Always open to more insults, when people start insulting is a clear sign they are out of valid arguments.
 
Customer A deposits £100, bank promises 1% rate
Bank lends that £100 to Customer B for mortgage, gets 2% back from customer B

No, bank gets a 100 punds depo, promises 1% rate.

Then banks lend out 1000 punds to customer B for mortgage.

Yes, they can lend out more than they have.
 
As stated previously in the thread:

The 3 month wait for withdrawal is bound by rules because of money laundring etc.
Even if they had billions of dollars in the bank, the 3 month rule would still apply since they need time to check all logs for where that money came from and who it's going to.

where has this information come from?

I have read the information about money laundring and Mindark arent coverd by that.
 
OFF F-:censored:-ING TOPIC




ok fair enough,it was insulting.

I just dont have the patience today and the thread in general tipped me over.


I'm not out of arguments,I'm out of patience.

As ermik said they lend out way more than they have in cash reserve so unless they can call that loan in they will not have the cash required to pay all the customers.

You qualified it by saying not all at once but then it would come down to a receivership/bankruptcy situation and you would be the last in line to get any cash if there was any to be had and the rest would be written off.


Banks work on promises not cash.


EDIT:
What it comes down to and what I was saying in the beginning is if there was a run on your bank the bank would most likely fold and you wouldn't get the money that is owed to you.
Banks also borrow a lot from other institutions and if they get a sniff of a run or that the bank is in any sort of trouble they call in their loans and you get nothing because you would be put last in line.
 
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No, bank gets a 100 punds depo, promises 1% rate.

Then banks lend out 1000 punds to customer B for mortgage.

Yes, they can lend out more than they have.

I think banks borrow the mortgage amount themselves from a central bank and sells it on to the customer while making money on greater interest over time.
 
No, bank gets a 100 punds depo, promises 1% rate.

Then banks lend out 1000 punds to customer B for mortgage.

Yes, they can lend out more than they have.


Agreed, I guess you missed my "This is of course over simplified" bit.


Rgds

Ace
 
Are you saying that all the banks are a Ponzi scheme?

A good bank should definitely be able to pay all the money to it's customers, even if none is depositing money, I agree, not all at once, because most of the money are invested but if you give them enough time they should be able to transforms everything in cash, pay the customers and also have a small profit.

It seems you have never heard of Fractional-reserve banking and it's law!
 
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