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Possible way MA makes their money from decay.

Ace Flyster

Ace Flyster

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Joined
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Avatar Name
Dave Ace Flyster
I was just thinking about this, and thought i would throw this out to the community.

First off:

Assumption 1) MA make their money from decay.

They have stated this, and i personally believe it, so my theory is based off this. (I really don't want to hear the crap about, MA make money from deposits- withdrawals - , sh*t, that is NOT their business model.)

So: MA get their money from decay. I have always assumed it worked something like, you decay 100ped, you get back 90ped, MA take 10ped.

Wouldn't it be far simpler and easier to programme, that they make their cut at the point of decay.

For example, i have sword that decays 10ped per click, while dealing damage. What if MA took their money per click.

For example, i click the sword, it decays 10 ped, MA take 1 ped, loot pool gets 9 ped.

That way, MA NEVER would have to worry about getting their cut. And all money in the loot pool, would be exactly that, loot for the players.


This would work for every thing that decays in game. Crafting, hunting, mining

What do you think?

-this is disregarding auction etc.


Rgds

Ace
 
I think your assumption is correct,but is there more ways MA can get your ped,lets say when mob evades,do you think that too goes in da pocket?When you tier the weapon you pay that too? to who to MA?the fuel for vehicles?and the planet entry fee and maybe there is some more stuff idk.But that is very interseting question :yup:
 
The way I see it, it should rightly be interpreted in a straightforward manner.

First, we have the "Loot Pool".


LOOT POOL


​
This "Loot Pool" governs all the flow of the PEDs that do not "belong" to any single avatar. PEDs spent enters the pool and PEDs awarded gets removed from it as loot.

(Its probably more complex than that, but let's just keep it simple, okay?)

So in this case, decay is then simply a "mechanism" that's being put in place for MA to siphon or withdraw PEDs out of the system, the "Loot Pool".

(Think of it as like when we initiate a "withdrawal" and MA deducts it from our PED cards accordingly. But much "faster" of course.)

Then when you use weapons, armors and tools, the "decay" portion goes to MA while the "ammunition" portion (weapon cells, blp packs, probes, welding wire, etc) gets recycled into the "Loot Pool".

When crafting, my guess is that a portion of the TT value of the bp's cost per click is removed as "decay" while the rest goes back into the "Loot Pool". Same goes for other consumables like enhancers and pills and other whatnots that does not have a clear "decay" and their TT values appear to be too large to be treated fully as "decay".

As for the "less than 100%" TT return?

That, in my opinion, is just MA's method of retaining PEDs within the system (the "Loot Pool") and to make us deposit more often.

It is in no way related to the "decaying mechanism", for as far as I can tell or guess.
 
sawachika said:
The way I see it, it should rightly be interpreted in a straightforward manner.

First, we have the "Loot Pool".


LOOT POOL


​
This "Loot Pool" governs all the flow of the PEDs that do not "belong" to any single avatar. PEDs spent enters the pool and PEDs awarded gets removed from it as loot.

(Its probably more complex than that, but let's just keep it simple, okay?)

So in this case, decay is then simply a "mechanism" that's being put in place for MA to siphon or withdraw PEDs out of the system, the "Loot Pool".

(Think of it as like when we initiate a "withdrawal" and MA deducts it from our PED cards accordingly. But much "faster" of course.)

Then when you use weapons, armors and tools, the "decay" portion goes to MA while the "ammunition" portion (weapon cells, blp packs, probes, welding wire, etc) gets recycled into the "Loot Pool".

When crafting, my guess is that a portion of the TT value of the bp's cost per click is removed as "decay" while the rest goes back into the "Loot Pool". Same goes for other consumables like enhancers and pills and other whatnots that does not have a clear "decay" and their TT values appear to be too large to be treated fully as "decay".

As for the "less than 100%" TT return?

That, in my opinion, is just MA's method of retaining PEDs within the system (the "Loot Pool") and to make us deposit more often.

It is in no way related to the "decaying mechanism", for as far as I can tell or guess.
Click to expand...


Your first part is exactly how i use to think it worked.

As for the bolded part. Will have to agree to disagree, i believe decay includes ammo, far more simple. And would take care of swords vs guns. Decay on click is a far simpler way of coding it. That would account for all crafting, ie tt of materials on click, swords, guns, ammo, finder, amps... all of it. No point in seperating any of it out.

Of which i have no proof.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i was just thinking, that from a business point of view. I would rather take my money from the click, rather than the loot pool.
 
delta force said:
I think your assumption is correct,but is there more ways MA can get your ped,lets say when mob evades,do you think that too goes in da pocket?When you tier the weapon you pay that too? to who to MA?the fuel for vehicles?and the planet entry fee and maybe there is some more stuff idk.But that is very interseting question :yup:
Click to expand...

Mob evades - Think the weapon, armor and tool decay covers that part.

Tiering - I think a portion of the TT is kept as "decay", a portion of it is returned as loot for the tierer and a portion is funneled into the loot pool.

Fuel for vehicles - Most probably treated as ammo? While damage suffered would be removed as decay from its TT value.

Planet Entry Fee - Probably goes to the Planet Partner? And MA takes a cut from there?
 
Ace Flyster said:
Your first part is exactly how i use to think it worked.

As for the bolded part. Will have to agree to disagree, i believe decay includes ammo, far more simple. And would take care of swords vs guns. Decay on click is a far simpler way of coding it. That would account for all crafting, ie tt of materials on click, swords, guns, ammo, finder, amps... all of it. No point in seperating any of it out.

Of which i have no proof.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i was just thinking, that from a business point of view. I would rather take my money from the click, rather than the loot pool.
Click to expand...

What your thinking...is what I am thinking too. MA takes it from the click on the get go. (The decayed part never makes it back into the Loot Pool.)

As for the separation (of decay and ammo)....well...its just a hypothesis on my part. For if MA takes everything from the click (all of its TT value), then there would be nothing left to go into the "loot pool" (to fill it up or at least sustain it for loot payouts right?).
 
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sawachika said:
What your thinking...is what I am thinking too. MA takes it from the click on the get go.

As for the separation part (of decay and ammo)....well...its just a hypothesis on my part. For if MA takes everything from the click (all of the TT value), then there would be nothing left to go into the "loot pool" (to fill it up or at least sustain it for loot payouts right?).
Click to expand...


This is how i think of it. Click spent 10 ped tt, MA take 1 ped, the rest goes to loot pool.....easy. (I am not saying it works like this, but guessing.)

No need to separate out anything.

Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
This is how i think of it. Click spent 10 ped tt, MA take 1 ped, the rest goes to loot pool.....easy. (I am not saying it works like this, but guessing.)

No need to separate out anything.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

Hmmm...perhaps you may be right and I was just taking MA's words literally when they said they take their cut from the "decay". :laugh:

(And by that, I was referring to the "decay" value that we can see from each and every single usable item, weapon, armor and tool found in the game...as shown on entropedia.)

Example:
Herman Ark-0 (L)
Decay:
0.050 PEC
Ammo:
240
Cost:
2.450 PEC

Decay taken by MA, rest filtered back into loot pool.
 
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sawachika said:
Hmmm...perhaps you may be right and I was just taking MA's words literally when they said they take their cut from the "decay". :laugh:
Click to expand...


Well, I am probably wrong. But it does seem a simpler way of doing it.

Still though, does MA take their cut from the click or the loot pool?

Rgds

Ace
 
Really ace... 90%.... you are smarter then that......
 
I wonder...

I read your post and thought about the sword decay, I always treat melee decay as ammo really, if that makes sense, so was about to say what about the ammo, then saw that you are classing both of them as the same.

The reason I wonder is the hunting I do there is no decay*, only ammo spent. And the loot is generally down right awful. If your theory is true, I wonder if the lack of decay in this sector is influencing the returns. The trouble with that theory is that it would presume that there is a separate loot pool for different areas of the universe. This is shown not to be the case though as planetside actions do have an overall effect.

It's a very good place to test theories, as there are several factors easily controllable - I am surprised someone much cleverererer than me hasnt utilised that niche and put it to the test ;)


*there can be indirect decay created but it involves other avatars, a different profession and different tool, could be postponed indefinitely and not required whilst hunting - so really muddies the water.
 
Ok, I'll do it even if you don't like it. :D
No their income isn't from decay, but from the effect decay (and other ingame value reduction features) have.
A little hint for your way to find out how EU works... you do know that MindArks patent are public? ;)
 
MA can make money from bigger space...

Hmmm...MA and EP make money ...all the game is moneyeater :wtg:

Anything u do in EU cost money ...except pure sweating :yup:

But if MA want to gain more money need to expand and create more space with Solar systems and more ships with more Modules /Devices for ships more ships (keep Quad as now and create a new model with slot for Warp drive and anything more new want to introduce and cost 500/1000 peds and fix the radars, new middle size ships for start and few of them as crafted so new ways to create companies and many many more...) and this can help MS /Privateer owners to get their moneys back for now , interplanetary trading need to have real meaning and so many more simspace players to come ingame and invest ...many of my friends tell me for this "if MA create a real space this game get crowded when introduce it" ... :wise:

Space: the final frontier... :wise:
Cheers...:yay:
Faceof is Dynamic...:cool:
 
In a way your kind of right I think and so is Joat with effect of decay.

example: you deposit 100ped (forget about the %transaction fee), you put that all into a sword and it decays to 3% so 97PED you spend in decay while hunting. First 3% is locked in MA coffers for that item until it is tt'ed so they have that to play with at all times until it is taken out of the system. 3% on every items is alot of profit when talking how many items are in game so alot of money locked into items MA may or may not ever have to pay back. Now forget about that 3% and focus on that 97 ped only, they I believe take 9.7 ped out of the initial decay as it goes for themselves and the rest goes into the POOL so to say. Now you have a chance to make that all back by getting some of others pool contributions or you get less back because your paying for others pool extractions.

So their model is set to lock peds into the system for longer periods of time as well as syphoning off on initial decays.

How the model works to only track x amount of peds that you deposit so the system doesn't eventually just drain dry when deposits are low I am not sure about how they do this but it must be tracked on a per player base on how much goes back in.

Players that never depo are just playing with other players deposits to fund MA by them making profit off the pool in times when depositors are loosing money to the pool.

Or anyways that's how I envision it working which kind of builds on OP and Joat's statements.
 
in my humble opinion, decay is ANY action that devaluates some avatar's items, including ammo and ped. that could be anything from hunting/mining/crafting over auction fees, tier upgrades and many more.

mindark stated that they don't take all decay, but a part of it, and nowhere it states that this part is a fixed percentage or something like that.

if you think about the business operation point of view, it is quite clear that mindark has monthly expenses to run this kind of service. so please tell me, how does this relate to the decay theory? if people would play (or deposit) less for some time, or if on the other side in a given time withdrawals are much higher than deposits, i'm pretty sure you will notice a change in loot/returns, because mindark can't just stop paying their bills. the only thing they can do is try to increase deposits, and guess what, that's what they actually do!

so in the end, i'm pretty sure their business model is directly related to monthly deposits and withdrawals, keeping in mind their expenses and the profit they would like to see.

just my :twocents:
 
does using fuel in ships, warp, ME etc count as decay or do that all go to MA?
 
Joat said:
... you do know that MindArks patent are public? ;)
Click to expand...

no, I didnt. And its quite a surprise for me. Thx for this info and do you have a link for this?
 
bigdaddy trim said:
does using fuel in ships, warp, ME etc count as decay or do that all go to MA?
Click to expand...

As posted by myself and others, we don't really have a clue what MA mean when they say 'decay'.

My version, decay caused by click. So this would not include armour, fap, extractor etc, as these are not caused by the player clicking.

As others have said, ammo might not be included, the old sword argument.

Vehicles were added very late in the game. And they could have decided at the time, should these peds go to the loot pool or to us directly. We have no way of knowing, unless MA state specifically.


Anyway, we could argue for hours about what MA do and don't include in decay.

I was just wondering if they take their money from the loot pool, or before hand, I.E on the click.


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i seemed to have repeated myself from earlier posts, apologies
 
Alainax said:
The reason I wonder is the hunting I do there is no decay*, only ammo spent. And the loot is generally down right awful. If your theory is true, I wonder if the lack of decay in this sector is influencing the returns. The trouble with that theory is that it would presume that there is a separate loot pool for different areas of the universe. This is shown not to be the case though as planetside actions do have an overall effect.

It's a very good place to test theories, as there are several factors easily controllable - I am surprised someone much cleverererer than me hasnt utilised that niche and put it to the test ;)
Click to expand...


Ahh loot theories, as inexplicable as decay theories. I highly doubt if bad loot was a result of this. Presuming you were eco enough, (just to remove that argument before it starts.) Just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from their point of view.

*Here is a weapon, that will always give bad loot cause we didn't get our decay thingys right* but again, who knows from MA lol

Rgds

Ace
 
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Off topic but.... they have a patent on that?

. The unique feature of the invention is a financial system in which users (A) of the system can use real money (P) to purchase virtual things or services which only exist in electronic or virtual form, or which can be stored digitally and can be utilized in a non-physical world/universe, i.e. a virtual world/universe. The converse of what is described above is also true, namely that users (A) can sell virtual things or services (K), which only exist in electronic or virtual form, or which can be stored digitally and can be utilized in a non-physical world/universe (D) in return for a consideration in real money (P).

Patent on EU, or patent on the ability to use real money to buy virtual things, and vice versa?
 
Anna Chrona said:
answering my own question, here is a link to the patent:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...OC&locale=en_EP&CC=WO&NR=0207035A1&KC=A1&ND=2

I have read through it, nothing new there, very vague and nothing about loot systems either.
Click to expand...

I guess you used the figure (the one with complete system) when you read the description?
It's easier to follow e.g cashflow RL -> VW -> RL, ingame features and so on when you change
all letters to text of what they represent in the figure.
 
There is no need to theorize about this, MA makes their money from everything. They decide how much they need to turn the profit they want and then allow the rest to be part of the system. Bottom line is, 'money in' will always be vastly greater than 'money out'. Don't think for a second they don't have it all figured out, down to the very last pec, to maximize their profit and screw 90% of the playerbase.
 
Raine said:
There is no need to theorize about this, MA makes their money from everything. They decide how much they need to turn the profit they want and then allow the rest to be part of the system. Bottom line is, 'money in' will always be vastly greater than 'money out'. Don't think for a second they don't have it all figured out, down to the very last pec, to maximize their profit and screw 90% of the playerbase.
Click to expand...

very true!

Everyone is complicate this so much.

MAs business model
You buy ped (made their money)
you loss your ped
you buy more peds (made even more money)

so, everyone who says MA makes their profit from ingame activity are deadwrong.

They control the game so you loss your ped as fast as needed to still hold u ingame and deposit more.

in what way? anyway!

one great example is crafting, a regular craftingrun with no hof/global u will never get a 100% tt-return.
There u have it. U lost peds
 
Count Joe said:
very true!

Everyone is complicate this so much.

MAs business model
You buy ped (made their money)
you loss your ped
you buy more peds (made even more money)

so, everyone who says MA makes their profit from ingame activity are deadwrong.

They control the game so you loss your ped as fast as needed to still hold u ingame and deposit more.

in what way? anyway!

one great example is crafting, a regular craftingrun with no hof/global u will never get a 100% tt-return.
There u have it. U lost peds
Click to expand...

I would say that they make profit from what the effect of ingame activies have. ;)
(Same same but different :D ;))

When it comes to bad or good cycles.... well, EU is a skillbased game:
Your ingame skills controll parts of your "luck", while your RL skills will show if your timing is right. :silly2:
 
doubt it, had more then 1 run where i lost more then all my decay.. imo they just take what they want..
everything else they tell you is a nice story to keep you here
 
Joat said:
I would say that they make profit from what the effect of ingame activies have. ;)
(Same same but different :D ;))

When it comes to bad or good cycles.... well, EU is a skillbased game:
Your ingame skills controll parts of your "luck", while your RL skills will show if your timing is right. :silly2:
Click to expand...

no its not the same thing.

Its like buying a giftcard - the company made their profit right away and now they wait for u to spend it.
 
Count Joe said:
no its not the same thing.

Its like buying a giftcard - the company made their profit right away and now they wait for u to spend it.
Click to expand...

A lot of vouchers never get spent, they spend their life in a drawer or wallet and go past their expiry date.

Shops love gift vouchers for this reason.
 
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