ToS Space Migration 2015

Actually John, several people talked about the sparse mob spawns at the TG's, so much so I toured several in my quad to check if the apparent low spawn at Ark was simply an effect of the number of vessels skilling there. My observations led me to believe, falsely it seems, that MA had reduced the spawn rates. Something I did query with them.

As for Qster's response to Leigh... what an arrogance... do you even know Leigh, do you know if he hunts his dries or turrets them ?

Oh and btw MA have long since confirmed turreting in space is no more an exploit than it is on planet, it is a designed game feature, to enable player choice.

Many ships/pilots other than TOS regularly kill their mobs..
Players will however make their choices based on personal preference, state of their ped card and even time until they need to be elsewhere in RL

Leigh was upset that he spent game time trying to skill, and this was inhibited by the actions of others. An effect that I am sure was unintended, as I have no doubt it was assumed the mobs would respawn at point of origin once killed.
That he was annoyed is not unreasonable accusing him of exploit is totally unreasonable not to mention likely to break the rules of this forum

Next time perhaps a discussion rather than instant accusations would be better for everyone

Very good, i rather prefer an educated dialogue over accusations that are made on assumptions.
I think its quite understandable how Qster reacted on Leigh based on Leigh's first post on this forum which was aregueably not the 'best' way to step into public.
You may be happy to hear that after our initial testing on how to accomplish the migration during which ark training grounds were effected from the 9th till 15th of september to various degrees we have reduced the impact in the second week to about 2-3 hours of impact on the 21st of september.
However talking internally about a timeframe during which ark tg was effected is a rather localized impression compared to the size of this universal migration - there were many other space la's available during the other days as well and as you point out mindark offers 'choice' to players not just in regards to how to skill but also in regards to 'where' to skill and all players are free to move to 'better' skilling grounds if 'dynamics' within the universe effect their old ones.
 
Actually John, several people talked about the sparse mob spawns at the TG's, so much so I toured several in my quad to check if the apparent low spawn at Ark was simply an effect of the number of vessels skilling there. My observations led me to believe, falsely it seems, that MA had reduced the spawn rates. Something I did query with them.

As for Qster's response to Leigh... what an arrogance... do you even know Leigh, do you know if he hunts his dries or turrets them ?

Oh and btw MA have long since confirmed turreting in space is no more an exploit than it is on planet, it is a designed game feature, to enable player choice.

Many ships/pilots other than TOS regularly kill their mobs..
Players will however make their choices based on personal preference, state of their ped card and even time until they need to be elsewhere in RL

Leigh was upset that he spent game time trying to skill, and this was inhibited by the actions of others. An effect that I am sure was unintended, as I have no doubt it was assumed the mobs would respawn at point of origin once killed.
That he was annoyed is not unreasonable accusing him of exploit is totally unreasonable not to mention likely to break the rules of this forum

Next time perhaps a discussion rather than instant accusations would be better for everyone



I apologize then, these were not accusations so much as observations. I've seen every MS that offers any kind of repair skilling, turret the mobs at one point or another (ToS excluded from that as I have never seen or turreted any mobs. Even though MA allows this practice it doesn't exactly mean that it is the right thing to do. It my opinion that if you don't have the peds to shoot mobs in space then you shouldn't be skilling there anyway.
 
Very good, i rather prefer an educated dialogue over accusations that are made on assumptions.
I think its quite understandable how Qster reacted on Leigh based on Leigh's first post on this forum which was aregueably not the 'best' way to step into public.
You may be happy to hear that after our initial testing on how to accomplish the migration during which ark training grounds were effected from the 9th till 15th of september to various degrees we have reduced the impact in the second week to about 2-3 hours of impact on the 21st of september.
However talking internally about a timeframe during which ark tg was effected is a rather localized impression compared to the size of this universal migration - there were many other space la's available during the other days as well and as you point out mindark offers 'choice' to players not just in regards to how to skill but also in regards to 'where' to skill and all players are free to move to 'better' skilling grounds if 'dynamics' within the universe effect their old ones.

Agreed we were all at liberty to use other TG, however since you had not advised others of your 'experiment', we were not aware of the cause, or your timetable, without which we would literally have been flying blind trying to find the TG that actually had a good spawn on that day.
Even given that knowledge we would have incurred additional expense moving the ship every hour or two in order to continue providing our service as advertised (we clearly state as do other services that we can be found at Arkadia). That we choose to operate this way and your service operates differently is neither right nor wrong, just different.
So while I actually applaud any effort to experiment with space, to try and enliven a section of the game that in my opinion is woefully under-developed. Can I suggest that future experiments are perhaps discussed in forum or in-game such that others have a heads up in advance and can plan for their own business accordingly, and avoid inadvertently interfering and spoiling the test itself. It would also avoid speculation, accusations and people making assumptions of malicious intent etc. We all love space, lets work together to build a future.

TY Qster for the apology, but I was surprised by your comment saying people who cannot afford to Hunt in space should not skill there. When I first entered EU space as a repair skiller I had very little investment in game. Yet the welcome I received and the encouragement from others brought me to where I am today.
Further to this, very few of us have the luxury of a permanently loaded Ped card, even now mine certainly has good days and bad.
Space should not be elitist (you can only come here if rich) that would be a sure recipe for it to die further. WE need to welcome any and all players into space, we need to show MA the potential for player interest or nothing will change or develop and we may as well all pack up and go home.
 
I can understand the frustration if mobs were not where they were expected to be. However, I am sure you can appreciate mass disclosure on such a move would not have been feasible.

The point I think we are missing -is this should not have been possible.It would never be possible on planet. As you are well aware ToS Normandie hunts in mid space, avoiding training grounds. This is of course our choice, but imagine if we all had to pick over the same scraps at training grounds.

There is a serious issue in space - We have many mighty strong ships with crew, and too few mobs. It saddens me to see some of the strongest ships, circling training grounds trying not to bump into each other - fighting for scraps. Whilst often picking up baby mobs and drowning them for skills.This, although I am sure not a bannable exploit, is another way of bypassing all the wonders that is space. This is of course entirely their own choice, but I just have this feeling that it could and should be so much more. If we want space to be a bigger and better place, we need to actually utilise is it. To hunt, to play, to do business - to thrive.

Of course this wasn't as altruistic as I portray above, we need bigger and denser mobs too. Ma has a system that encourages ships and crew to become stronger, yet doesn't provide us with the mobs to kill. Like having supremacy and the terminator in a planet where there are only sparse young Argonauts.

This was a stunt, with the only ambition of raising a point. We all need denser and stronger mobs in space. If it was a fruitless endeavour (as I can assure you the loot was!) then it will be a crying shame. If however, MA take a look and think just for a second that maybe there should be more for them to fire their peds at in space - then it has been an accomplishment that will be to the benefit of us all.
 
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Just as long as they dont put them in the main paths that most people use when travelling between planets.

Because that is what space is for about 97% of us that dont own Motherships and Privateers - a 45 minute TV show / or read a book.

And that is before the genius idea of making all of space lootable PVP (about as popular as herpes from most polling that I've seen.)


I was nodding as I read Mega's post about keeping the Mobs out of the main point to point flight paths, and the TV Show / Book thingy, however I think its important to remember that without Lootable Space there is no profit in interplanetary trade which would affect Miners/Traders and also no business for Scheduled or VIP warp, so potentially huge loss for warp capable ship owners on their investment.

IMHO the idea of a NON-PVP hunting ground with its own storage and a safe SS would allow us to hunt space mobs, safe from having the Loot Pirated and also provide an additional opportunity for Warp Transport of hunters and their loot for warp ship owners.


Thanks for reading :)


Dirk
 
I was nodding as I read Mega's post about keeping the Mobs out of the main point to point flight paths, and the TV Show / Book thingy, however I think its important to remember that without Lootable Space there is no profit in interplanetary trade which would affect Miners/Traders and also no business for Scheduled or VIP warp, so potentially huge loss for warp capable ship owners on their investment.

IMHO the idea of a NON-PVP hunting ground with its own storage and a safe SS would allow us to hunt space mobs, safe from having the Loot Pirated and also provide an additional opportunity for Warp Transport of hunters and their loot for warp ship owners.


Thanks for reading :)


Dirk

Planets have vast areas of non-pvp - space was made lootable pvp as a base decision for its initial design with all the spaceships in it - there is no point for mindark to overthrow their base concept for space and there is enough possibilties for non-pvp hunting planetside. Space is lootable pvp and that is good the way it is, it just needs more content and bugfixes.
As pointed out before, if there were enough mobs to keep people busy and if there were some bossmobs to score some ath's on im sure we would see alot more continuous hunting ongoing in space then as its now.
Check entropialife tracker results on space globals - then compare the total of scored space globals to the number of space globals scored by 'Titans of Space Starfleet' - its an eye-opener...
We clearly display that we could score a grand deal of globals/hofs daily if the mob density/maturity would be available for it - and so could everyone else if people got inspired to go out there and search out some strong space mobs for rare 'space loot' - this would require of course that mindark finally starts adding some loot to spacemobs that is exclusive to them and not handed out 10times more planetside like it was done for galactica mission.
 
<Snip> space was made lootable pvp as a base decision for its initial design with all the spaceships in it <Snip> Space is lootable pvp and that is good the way it is, it just needs more content and bugfixes.

Agree 100%

As pointed out before, if there were enough mobs to keep people busy and if there were some bossmobs to score some ath's on im sure we would see alot more continuous hunting ongoing in space then as its now.

I also agree with this. I'd be the first to Queue up and pay for some hardcore Space hunting every so often as a treat.

Check entropialife tracker results on space globals - then compare the total of scored space globals to the number of space globals scored by 'Titans of Space Starfleet' - its an eye-opener...
We clearly display that we could score a grand deal of globals/hofs daily if the mob density/maturity would be available for it .


and I suspect that the vast majority of this hunting activity was done using a MS/Privateer with Multiple Guns and lots of SI..... so very unlikely that what most players would consider a large investment of PED in Ammo for a 2 hour hunt will be lost to Pirates


I have no problem with your Vision for the future John and I applaud your work for the Space Community but my point is that it should not be only for MS owners & crew to benefit from hunting in Space. It should also be possible for a Quad owner to Space hunt and gain some special skills without the risk that he will loose a lot of PED to a Pirate, hence my suggestion of a separate and isolated Non-PVP Zone that has its own storage. The only way to extract the loot would be to TT it (Eeekk!) or hire a Warp Flight on a ship with substantial SI and a few extra Gunners.


Just my two PEC :)


Dirk
 
and I suspect that the vast majority of this hunting activity was done using a MS/Privateer with Multiple Guns and lots of SI..... so very unlikely that what most players would consider a large investment of PED in Ammo for a 2 hour hunt will be lost to Pirates

See thats where i think people have the wrong perception - its actually alot cheaper for the gunner to hunt big mobs in space then it would be planetside - because the gunner just uses the equippment available and doesnt have to buy highend armor/weaponry.
I think the main reason why mindark has sofar delayed bringing dense mob spawns to space is because they know they would enable lots of players to hunt with highend equippment without players having to purchase it.
Hunting on a mothership in space is like renting top equippment planetside without having to provide collateral and thats why mindark at some point will have to separate planetside and space lootpool, because if they increase mob density and maturity in space they cant balance spaceship gun turrets against planetside hunting weaponry and they shouldnt need to. Separate lootpools would work perfectly fine.
 
I apologize for the out burst in my previous comment. I was a little upset cause of my time I lost trying to get skills. I work a lot and have little time during the week to do things in this game I enjoy. Just next time u plan on doing some like this. Plz at least inform other ship owner of what is going so ppl don't waste time trying to do something they cant.
 
Planets have vast areas of non-pvp - space was made lootable pvp as a base decision for its initial design with all the spaceships in it - there is no point for mindark to overthrow their base concept for space and there is enough possibilties for non-pvp hunting planetside. Space is lootable pvp and that is good the way it is, it just needs more content and bugfixes.
As pointed out before, if there were enough mobs to keep people busy and if there were some bossmobs to score some ath's on im sure we would see alot more continuous hunting ongoing in space then as its now.
Check entropialife tracker results on space globals - then compare the total of scored space globals to the number of space globals scored by 'Titans of Space Starfleet' - its an eye-opener...
We clearly display that we could score a grand deal of globals/hofs daily if the mob density/maturity would be available for it - and so could everyone else if people got inspired to go out there and search out some strong space mobs for rare 'space loot' - this would require of course that mindark finally starts adding some loot to spacemobs that is exclusive to them and not handed out 10times more planetside like it was done for galactica mission.

Calypso: All of Amethera outside of Land Areas is PVP. In addition there is PVP 1,2,3 & 4. Very barely used areas.

Space was designed as lootable space, and for most of us, we dont particularly enjoy it. That's why its pretty empty. The fact you see anyone in it, is because the playerbase has no choice if they wish to go to other planets.

You watch -If MA ever implement a corner of space that is non lootable (bonus if bad karma people not able to enter) with an asteroid with a storage terminal, auction terminal, trade terminal and repair terminal.

Then you'll see space be a bit more popular. Stick Hermit's in there :)

As it is, space is something that most endure, avoid or use a log off exploit to transfer stackables. If that's your idea of success then we differ.
 
As it is, space is something that most endure, avoid or use a log off exploit to transfer stackables. If that's your idea of success then we differ.

Agreed that we differ - check SC at some point - its still in development and will be a pvp universe - but it already has 980k players supporting its development with 89 million dollars - try again telling me that pvp is something people dont want ;)
 
agreed that we differ - check sc at some point - its still in development and will be a pvp universe - but it already has 980k players supporting its development with 89 million dollars - try again telling me that pvp is something people dont want ;)

Lootable PVP is something 95% of Entropians dont like.
 
Lootable PVP is something 95% of Entropians dont like.

Please stop derailing this thread mega and making up numbers without having proof.
Writing in big letters doesnt make it any more true either.

Whichever the percentage of entropians is that prefers a fluffy universe - they already have it - mindark needs to aim to widen their customerbase instead of making more of the same.
Privateer and Mothership concepts were layed out and sold as team/raid pvp equippment - for this to actually happen 4 years after people payed for it we need content in space that its worth fighting for and with each other.
 
Please stop derailing this thread mega and making up numbers without having proof.
Writing in big letters doesnt make it any more true either.

Whichever the percentage of entropians is that prefers a fluffy universe - they already have it - mindark needs to aim to widen their customerbase instead of making more of the same.
Privateer and Mothership concepts were layed out and sold as team/raid pvp equippment - for this to actually happen 4 years after people payed for it we need content in space that its worth fighting for and with each other.

Proof? I made it big letters so there was no doubt in what is a universally accepted fact in this game.

The fact that any new player that doesn't choose Calypso will sooner or later have to traverse lootable PVP doesnt widen the customerbase it's actually collapsed it.

Back when everyone arrived at Port Atlantis which was a very vibrant busy area with a dedicated "New Arrival Zone" even with their own guides to ask for advice was the time when Entropia "was working for new players."



You want to talk about space games? I really wouldn't bother John. I was shooting Thargoids before you were born.
 
Proof? I made it big letters so there was no doubt in what is a universally accepted fact in this game.

Im not sure with how many players you have personally spoken, but i have transported close to 2000 unique avatars since 2011, have had close to 1000 of them as crew for awhile - and i have spoken with the majority about space. My statistical data of those who actually moved through space at some point looks quite different from the numbers you make up.
There is a great deal of players who would love to be able to join in for some serious teambased pvp action 'if' the content was there and supporting it - kinda like an exciting alternative to planetside grinding.
 
Im not sure with how many players you have personally spoken, but i have transported close to 2000 unique avatars since 2011, have had close to 1000 of them as crew for awhile - and i have spoken with the majority about space. My statistical data of those who actually moved through space at some point looks quite different from the numbers you make up.
There is a great deal of players who would love to be able to join in for some serious teambased pvp action 'if' the content was there and supporting it - kinda like an exciting alternative to planetside grinding.

500 people a year. Oh well, I'm obviously wrong then.

Except I'm not.

I know exactly how busy Calypso has been 2006-2015 <removed>

As those who read the majority of my posts know, I'm usually optimistic. I know what we have isn't working, and despite the fact we are arguing about side issues I still want Entropia to succeed and be better than it is.

So I propose:

Titans of Space
Age of Enlightenment
Nebula Virus
[Other Space Societies]

stay in 75% of lootable space and kick shit out of each other

25% is non lootable with a mob, an asteroid and a fully kitted out set of terminals for everyone else.

In case I get a reply (or you JBK) saying "you dont know shit" I spent a year in Eve Online and thats 500% more PVP than this game will ever be.
 
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Aye, lets get back on topic :)

as i edited my second post to the thread to contain some additional info here a short self-quote:

Something to think about:

Close to 80% of all lifeforms in space were migrated and then killed by one mothership making use of 3-6 gunner seats during one evening of hunting.
The gunner seats were limited to 3-6 because even with 80% of the universes creatures in place there were not enough targets in gunning & looting range in any one moment to actually keep 11 gunners busy, which is the number of gun turrets that can be utilized on a mothership with armament device III.

Dear Mindark, considering that one mothership can theoretically take on the entirety of all space creatures, what are the other ships supposed to do meanwhile ?

We really hope development is going to plan and the promised pve content will be implemented soon - ToS Starfleet is looking forward to engage on a thousand dropships at once or to take down the first 'Space Hussk' - because we could if there was one !

And maybe we can look forward to a space migration 2016 which doesnt need engineers from ToS to make it happen ;)

We are eagerly preparing for the future and hope you will match our speed :D
 
<removed>

With a phase shift, you can see I want space to work. I'm not greedy - Enlightenment, Titans, Nebula etc get 75% which are still the space route journeys.

Mindark have had their experiment, its mostly a failure. I understand exactly why they did what they did, but in copying another space game, they missed out (or ddn't get around to implementing) that the other game has space police and turrets on space stations for the bad guys.

But anyway apart from that, If I worked at MA, I'd say "hey, shall we try a corner of non lootable space, and see if people like it?"

Wont affect space transit, because its in the corner, and if they are bright (which MA employees are) they'll make it an Iron Mission, and if there is a Space mob that is currently missing they could say "Hermits return"

Couldn't make it up could you? ;)
 
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8-55.jpg

Just a few screen shots from the migration.
 
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Here are a few of the pics of the "dropshits", I know people like these mobs and the images in the video were a bit unclear. In reality they are a very very sparse mob. Getting more than 2 together is blooming hard work. These guys took a bit of effort - and I must confess, not by me. I blooming hate them with a passion! :D Slow ass mobs who hate to agro.... who let robots in space... *gumble grumble*


Ark Royal also features here :) She is often forgotten in the lime light of Normandie, but always working hard in the back ground, bless her :)


h_an_ds.jpg

ds_ark.jpg



***
 
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<removed>

Thread topic: Great, well done on shooting a load of stuff up and owning a Mothership. :thumbup:
 
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Just for the hell of it <removed> I raised a support case.

In the future, if you see a little corner of Space that is for us and not for the psychopaths, or see a Hermit again...

Well, as I typically say, it is worth raising support cases, you never know, you may get a nice surprise. :tongue3:
 
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What I would like is a few Hussk lvl size mobs (L 5k+) that will require several shooters in a team.
 
If you think space is working well as intended then that's what we will have from now until forever.

If you think a mothership dragging a whole lot of mobs into an area in order to hunt it (in lootable PVP) and that's good gameplay then that's what we will be discussing next year.

Unfortunately this thread isn't about improvements and will just be edited anyway. Go shoot some shit Tos / AoE!!!
 
I think it should be like it is on planet.

There are areas very dense with mobs, where people go hunt - and areas with very few or no mobs at all.

I don't however think space should be bypassed, being no more than a 40 min void/book read/tv watch. It should be interactive and immersive for everyone. Even if that is just dodging a few little mobs on the way, like you would do if you were tp running back in the old days. And if one doesn't want to pay attention and dodge mobs, there is always warp ships :)

I think it should be like it is on planet.

You said it - on planet mobs trains are mostly not allowed.

I don't however think space should be bypassed..

Now days nobody is running trough hordes of various mobs, passing many different LA's just to get on destination LA.
That we did in old PE and getting to preferred hunting/mining ground took hour or more, but now we use TP, chip or vehicle. Yes in old time we didn't have motherships to jump to area with particular mob but still we used terrain, sea and other methods to get there safe or faster - we still had a choice to kill every shity mob on path or to take safe trip around or to swim etc. We had choice and planet side we still have choice.

And if one doesn't want to pay attention and dodge mobs, there is always warp ships

To not having choice and safe way in space except if we pay mothership look like sort of extortion.
And is not like on planet as you say it should be.

I don't however think space should be bypassed, being no more than a 40 min void/book read/tv watch. It should be interactive and immersive for everyone

Yes we have a problem - Space is used mostly to travel from one planet to another and that mean Space is not used at all.
Nothing to do there if you don't want to have pirate pker on your back all the time.
Sorry I cant enjoy to explore and hunt in space with possibility that someone is waiting to kill me and loot me.



Agreed that we differ - check SC at some point - its still in development and will be a pvp universe - but it already has 980k players supporting its development with 89 million dollars - try again telling me that pvp is something people don't want ;)

Doing some numbers is not so productive and can deviate in wrong conclusion.
But yes we can count players.
We counted them in few RC-unit events where MA did PVP event and gave rewards just for small group of players.
Players on Calypso voted with their PedCards too and you can walk trough all Amathera LA's and see result - all are turned pvp off.
I can understand concerns that partially putting pvp off - might be a problem as your business is based on loot able space, presence of pirates and inability of MA and planet partners to balance economy with import/export taxes and fees.
But that is just partial problem because we miss space content, more space areas and places, more things to do, more to add in space.

I'm not pker or pirate, mostly hunter and apart that enough curious to try every other profession or new thing to do - but that do not mean that i burn less peds in EU as pker or pirate do - hmm i burn probably a lot more.
I don't see reason that space is only for pirates and mothership owners to enjoy as gameplay ground.
Space should be for all but we need more content, more things in space.

I fully support Mega proposing that space should have some addition, corner, for everyone taste or play style.

Just as long as they dont put them in the main paths that most people use when travelling between planets.

Because that is what space is for about 97% of us that dont own Motherships and Privateers - a 45 minute TV show / or read a book.

And that is before the genius idea of making all of space lootable PVP (about as popular as herpes from most polling that I've seen.)

If anything, I'd request a NON lootable space zone with Mobs in, and see if that worked. The issue is getting it home safe though - that needs some working out. Maybe an asteroid there with a storage terminal on it. Turrets on the asteroid, pirates get shot down on approaching.

Look John its an idea and we need more than that.
I would like to have space iron missions or exploring missions, space mining maybe etc.
But with pkers on my ass i will newer go do it.

Look recent Mission Galactica - most of mission is done planet side or worse auction side lol.
Its boring that way, one do not have nothing to do in space except visiting space station and howling mine.
More content should be added and mission glued to that new content in space.

How about content for masive participation?
Like Land Grab space zone with non loot able area witch periodically turn loot able to permit societies to fight for it and claim it.
Maybe floating space town to trade space resources and craft items witch are not craft able on planets due to gravity.
Maybe small asteroids non pvp for mining special space resources etc.
More content mean also more needs for mothership services regardless of players profile and playing style.
Im sure that you with your experience can provide a lot better ideas just don't forget to give everyone something to do.
 
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