ZPF Mining Log

ZPF

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Zelos 'Playboy' Fargen
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2019 Log Starts HERE: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?279100-ZPF-Mining-Log&p=3685206&viewfull=1#post3685206

This is more of a personal journal than anything. I've never made a significant effort to keep a detailed track of long-term returns, hopefully this will change things. Will do my best not to get lazy :yup:

Stipulations

  1. Not going by any specific rhyme or rhythm. Anywhere from 50 to 1000+ drops per run. I will track TT returns, average MU, overall returns, etc. Finder/Excavator costs will be included.
  2. "Advanced Mining" (FOMA/Hell/Etc.) will not be tracked any differently than standard mining.
  3. Taxed areas will ~mostly~ be avoided unless they contain a high concentration of high MU resources.

Please feel free to post any questions, comments, insults, jokes etc!

And with that said, let the fun begin!

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Run#1

Probes: 66 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 3.99 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.45 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.32 PED

Total misc costs: 4.76 PED

TT return: 60.51 PED

Breakdown:

Hydrogen Steam: 1.54 PED
Lyst: 2.62 PED
Oil: 2.98 PED
Nexus: 2.23 PED
Hebredite: 16.00 PED
Gazz: 3.50 PED
Magerian: 1.75 PED
Sweetstuff: 1.71 PED
Gold: 1.00 PED
Energized: 3.90 PED
Narc: 5.44 PED
Ospra: 2.76 PED
Wenrex: 3.40 PED
Kaz: 11.68 PED

Note: Don't expect a detailed resource breakdown every time. Just occasionally, for the sake of transparency.

TT return: 91.68%

Return after MU: 69.31 PED

Profit Margin: 5% or 3.31 PED

Profit after misc costs: -1.45 PED

Comments: As expected, my usual spots have not regenerated yet. Decided to take a risk and hit them early. Adjusted my drop pattern a bit to compensate but ended up doing poorly. Was saved by an ample Hebredite. I didn't document my previous run, which was roughly 99% TT return with a decent amount of Wenrex. Unsurprisingly this run did not go as well. Next one might be even worse if I don't find better spots.
 
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Good luck on your log, subbed. :)
 
Good luck on your log, subbed. :)

Thank you :)

Run#2

Probes: 150 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 9.08 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.79 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.30 PED

Total misc costs: 10.17 PED

TT return: 125.55 PED

Breakdown:
Devils Tail 0.47 PED
Gazz 1 PED
Frakite 3 PED
Langotz 4.5 PED
Gold 16 PED
Megan 6.48 PED
Energized 3 PED

Note: To reduce clutter I have only included the resources over 120% MU, the remaining resources were between 101%-118%, mostly falling in the 101%-105% range

TT return: 83.7%

Return after MU: 157.67 PED

Profit Margin: 5.1% or 7.67 PED

Profit after misc costs: -2.5 PED

Comments: Decided to map out some new areas. As expected, TT returns were closer to 80%. However I swapped areas quite often, and only lingered in areas where I was hitting high MU (140%+) multiple times. Hit Gold and Langotz several times (could this be the fabled "gold spot"?), however the area had a poor hit rate and many low MU resources mixed in so I will most likely not be returning.
 
Run#3

Probes: 142 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 8.57 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.44 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.32 PED

Total misc costs: 9.33 PED

TT return: 90.27 PED

Breakdown:
Langotz 5.4 PED
Crude Oil 1.32 PED
Azur Pearls 0.96 PED
Lyta 3.80 PED
Kaz 2.64 PED
Cordul 2 PED
Binary 1.5 PED
Duru 8.8 PED
Gold 12 PED
Wenrex 5.61 PED
Sweetstuff 1.84 PED
Lyst 5.64 PED
Arekite 3.3 PED
Cald 7.99 PED
Magerian 1 PED
Edres 2.86 PED
Niksarium 9.75 PED
Gazz 2.25 PED
Energized 3.30 PED
Acid Root 1.6 PED
Cave 1.17 PED
Gorbek 1.2 PED
Adomsite 3 PED
Hydrogen 1.34 PED

TT return: 63.57%

Return after MU: 119.56 PED

Profit Margin: -15.80% or -22.44 PED

Profit after misc costs: -31.77 PED

Comments: Tried some high MU mining again. It seems that areas with ultra-high MU resources such as gold have a more volatile hit rate. I explored some new areas which ended up giving me poor hit rates as well. I usually expect 80% returns when "exploring", so this run was quite disappointing. I returned to some old spots at the end out of desperation, the hit rates were average. Still haven't found a "great" spot yet here on Arkadia. But some areas have been more reliable than others.

Hopefully things will get better in the longer term.

Total Stats for Run#1-#3

Total Probes Cost: 358 PED
Total TT return: 78.72%
Total Profit/Loss (Ignoring Misc Costs): -11.46 PED
Total Profit/Loss:: -35.72 PED
 
Subscribing and thanks for sharing. GL out there.

Cheerz,
Vi
 
Subscribing and thanks for sharing. GL out there.

Cheerz,
Vi

Thanks!

Run#4

Probes: 144.50 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 8.756 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.89 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.20 PED

Total misc costs: 9.846 PED

TT return: 125.55 PED

Breakdown:
Lyst 12.49 PED
Cobalt 15.60 PED
Pel 5 PED
Melch 2.8 PED
Hyroden 6.46 PED
Typo 6.9 PED
Nexus 2.29 PED
Ospra 4.54 PED
Growth 3.29 PED
Sweetstuff 7.92 PED
Energized 1.20 PED
Veda 5.40 PED
Lotium 2.40
Wenrex 2.21
Azz 2.40
Kaz 2.84
Magerian 1.25
Hebredite 2.25
Terrudite 8.80
Cave 4.68
Igni 21.00

TT return: 84.26%

Return after MU: 143.67 PED

Profit Margin: -0.57% or -0.83 PED

Profit after misc costs: -10.676 PED

Comments: Decided to hit a totally new spot. Found a nice little pocket. Managed to hit a decent amount of ignisium with an average hit rate. This is just confirming my theory. There are zones with ores such as gold with offer volatile hit rates, zones with mid-MU ores such as ignisium which offer standard-decent hit rates, and of course when I'm getting terrific hit rates - zinc and lyst. In the end you come out around even either way. Still haven't found a nice consistently profitable area. Cut off from my ignisum spot at the end and tried to find some Wenrex (and mostly failed). Got a little greedy with my drops which reduced my overall hit rate.

Looks like we're still in the red... Oh well. More to come!
 
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Run#5

Probes: 191.25 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 11.49 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.71 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.20 PED

Total misc costs: 12.40 PED

TT return: 155.55 PED

Breakdown:
Growth 11.75 PED
Adom 7.2 PED
Zinc 12 PED
Mager 3 PED
Azur 3.84 PED
Hebred 14.75 PED
Acid 3.52 PED
Star 3.28 PED
Devil 6.11 PED
Bodai 5.00 PED
Banite 12 PED
Maganite 5.25 PED
Frakite 1.20 PED
Erdor 6.80 PED
Alf 9.50 PED
Ares 9.10 PED
Lyst 8.77 PED
Vorn 7.6 PED
Wenrex 3.23 PED
Dianthus 1.80 PED
Alice 1.60 PED
Gazz 18.25 PED

TT return: 81.33%

Return after MU: 186.37 PED

Profit Margin: -2.55% or -4.88 PED

Profit after misc costs: -17.28 PED

Comments: First 7 double drops were NRFs (Note to self: Don't mine near the edge of server zones). Ditched that area and explored some new ones. Found some maganite! That's new. Was hoping for some Dianthus, instead hit Ares Head (likely due to overdepthing). Found a nice little Gazz pocket towards the end so I bought a few more probes and mined it out. Would have been a considerably worse run if not for that Gazz.

TT returns don't seem to be improving just yet.
 
You often change servers in a single session, this conclusion I made, based on the composition of resources. Looking for best return? Finder is Terramaser 4-5?
 
You often change servers in a single session, this conclusion I made, based on the composition of resources. Looking for best return? Finder is Terramaser 4-5?

You are correct. I will usually change servers after a few dozen drops unless the combination of hit rate and resource distribution seems profitable.

Terra 5. Surprised you figured it out! The decay is killing me :laugh:
 
You are correct. I will usually change servers after a few dozen drops unless the combination of hit rate and resource distribution seems profitable.

Terra 5. Surprised you figured it out! The decay is killing me :laugh:

Level 2 Finder Amplifier (light is cheaper) will help you smooth out the affect of decay ;)
 
Level 2 Finder Amplifier (light is cheaper) will help you smooth out the affect of decay ;)

This has been on my mind. As long as the average markup on my finds is higher than amp ~MU+10%, profit will increase and smooth out cost of decay, as you said. With level 2 @ 106%, this means I will need at least 116% average MU.

If I can find Level 2s at a cheap price I will definitely try it.

Thanks for the tip :wtg:
 
With level 2 @ 106%, this means I will need at least 116% average MU.

Your current average MU will remain the same in the configuration with Level 2 Amp.
Only claims will be a little bigger
 
Your current average MU will remain the same in the configuration with Level 2 Amp.
Only claims will be a little bigger

Since I'm exploring many new areas, even with Terra 5 my main concern is that my average MU might be too low. But so far it has been pretty good (mainly because of server-hopping). But if I can find the amps at low MU then the risk is pretty low :cool:
 
With a lvl 2 amp at 106% double dropping (140 or so drops) only requires you to get a markup of 113.8% to break even after extractor decay. I'm fairly convinced finder decay is returned in loot. Extractor decay is not.

Also just a tip, try not to change servers so much, you'll get a better TT return. The miners that get the most stable returns often grind the same server over and over. Each server is on its own timer for "hot spots" where decent hofs are possible. By changing servers so often you could just have the bad luck of never getting on one during those periods.
Just a few of my theories though. GL!
 
With a lvl 2 amp at 106% double dropping (140 or so drops) only requires you to get a markup of 113.8% to break even after extractor decay. I'm fairly convinced finder decay is returned in loot. Extractor decay is not.

Also just a tip, try not to change servers so much, you'll get a better TT return. The miners that get the most stable returns often grind the same server over and over. Each server is on its own timer for "hot spots" where decent hofs are possible. By changing servers so often you could just have the bad luck of never getting on one during those periods.
Just a few of my theories though. GL!

Thanks for your thoughts. Server stomping has never paid off for me unfortunately. Maybe I haven't hit one hard enough, dunno.

I sincerely hope finder decay is not returned in loot because in that case my TT returns are wayyyyyy worse than they appear :laugh:

Unfortunately we have no way of knowing for sure aside from some guesswork based on numbers. It might make for an interesting test with an extremely high decay finder.

Personally I haven't noticed much difference in claim sizes between low decay finders and Terra 5. But I haven't been tracking these things with much effort.
 
I sincerely hope finder decay is not returned in loot because in that case my TT returns are wayyyyyy worse than they appear :laugh:
Finder decay is returned in the loot. But excavator decay and refiner decay - not. This fact is confirmed by many miners.
 
Finder decay is returned in the loot. But excavator decay and refiner decay - not. This fact is confirmed by many miners.


I wouldn't call it fact, but I strongly believe this as well.

Good luck with the log, always fun to read other people's mining experiences.

Rgds

Ace
 
Finder decay is returned in the loot. But excavator decay and refiner decay - not. This fact is confirmed by many miners.

Interesting... in that case high decay low MU finders like Terra5 are very good... Just waiting for my TT returns to prove this to me :scratch2:
 
Run#6

Probes: 155.50 PED
Amp: Level 2 (Light): 50 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 9.306 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.90 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.24 PED

Total misc costs: 10.446 PED

TT return: 137.90 PED

Breakdown:
Lyta 3.61 PED
Florican 7.83 PED
Erionite 6.80 PED
Gorbek 7.2 PED
Yulerium 8.50 PED
Belkar 3.40 PED
Telfium 8.12 PED
Typo 4.95 PED
Cumbriz 10.20 PED
Frig 2.52 PED
Wenrex 3.23 PED
Kaz 11.60 PED
Ospra 18.84 PED
Oil 6.83 PED
Vorn 5.8 PED
Binary 3.75 PED
Azur 3.84 PED
Nexus 3.22 PED
Star 10.24 PED
Xelo 4.68 PED

TT return: 67.10%
TT return (including Finder decay): 64.2%

Return after MU: 149.51 PED

Profit Margin (including amp MU @ 106%):-28.29% or -58.99 PED

Profit after misc costs: -69.436 PED

Comments: First amped run of the log. The first half of this run was unamped. Went pretty well. Hit some telfium and typonolic. My hopes were high. Then I slapped on the amp and tried some new zones. Not only was my hit rate absolutely terrible, but (as I feared) I was unable to find anything with a decent MU. Just kaz, more kaz, and lots of ospra along with lots of garbage like Gorbek that doesn't sell. Haven't done any hunting or crafting since I started the log, so these returns are unlikely related to my "personal loot pool" for those that subscribe to that theory. These are just straight mining returns.

Bright side: Finally finished Stage 1 Mining Point Challenge for Crude Oil! :yup:
 
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What are you including in Misc. costs? I can only think of vehicle repair, and I doubt you need that much for a run.

If those are costs of clearing out mobs, does it include any return from loot?
 
What are you including in Misc. costs? I can only think of vehicle repair, and I doubt you need that much for a run.

If those are costs of clearing out mobs, does it include any return from loot?

Misc costs are listed at the top. Finder Decay + Drill Decay + Fuel Cost.

About 90% of it is Finder Decay (which is supposedly returned to you in loot).

I don't touch any mobs during these runs. Don't bring any armor, weapons or ammo with me at all. This is 100% pure mining.
 
With a lvl 2 amp at 106% double dropping (140 or so drops) only requires you to get a markup of 113.8% to break even after extractor decay. I'm fairly convinced finder decay is returned in loot. Extractor decay is not.

Also just a tip, try not to change servers so much, you'll get a better TT return. The miners that get the most stable returns often grind the same server over and over. Each server is on its own timer for "hot spots" where decent hofs are possible. By changing servers so often you could just have the bad luck of never getting on one during those periods.
Just a few of my theories though. GL!

I agree with this quote above along with what has been observed by the finder decay info from Ace, Gewitter, and Rocket.

Some days I feel like amping up (planet-side only) and try a few amped drops, but end up not doing well. While other times I get that same feeling again to amp up, but instead learn to ignore this feeling as I've been hitting or doing well all along while unamped planet-side so far or atm; even though I want to slap an amp on. A hard part for me at times is having to better observe, control, and know when to equip amp or not. Also, think it's all part of trial and error (experiences), keeping track of locations and timing, and understanding consistency along with the equipment you're using (Limited or UL finders for example as I use both in my line-ups atm; even includes using enhrs or not).

Off-topic note: Recently I've noticed while mining planet-side that I'd get my line-patterns, but also been getting a lot of close bunched in "clusters" or cluster patterns that are really close to my avatar. I'll input a picture shortly. So, the question is have you noticed this as of recently to? (I know Rocket and a few other miners have experienced and/or noticed this as well - think there is a thread on it).

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This was taken on Caly yesterday unamped using my (L) finder as I kept dropping in the close proximity of the area to even dbl dropping right next to a claim as it kept coming up with hits (I had about 10 claims as the other 3 claims were off to the SW of my radar of which my picture doesn't do it justice - sry, had to edit the coordz/location as its another one of my go-to spots for high MUs on Caly).

Here is another one from today:
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I agree with this quote above along with what has been observed by the finder decay info from Ace, Gewitter, and Rocket.

Some days I feel like amping up (planet-side only) and try a few amped drops, but end up not doing well. While other times I get that same feeling again to amp up, but instead learn to ignore this feeling as I've been hitting or doing well all along while unamped planet-side so far or atm; even though I want to slap an amp on. A hard part for me at times is having to better observe, control, and know when to equip amp or not. Also, think it's all part of trial and error (experiences), keeping track of locations and timing, and understanding consistency along with the equipment you're using (Limited or UL finders for example as I use both in my line-ups atm; even includes using enhrs or not).

Off-topic note: Recently I've noticed while mining planet-side that I'd get my line-patterns, but also been getting a lot of close bunched in "clusters" or cluster patterns that are really close to my avatar. I'll input a picture shortly. So, the question is have you noticed this as of recently to? (I know Rocket and a few other miners have experienced and/or noticed this as well - think there is a thread on it).

I don't presume that the amp had too much to do with my terrible returns here. After all it was only a level 2 Light. I do wish I had waited and amped in an area I had confidence in, though.

In terms of patterns, I've probably seen deposits line up in just about every letter of the alphabet. Haven't noticed any significant consistency yet, but clusters are very common.
 
Kaz 11.60 PED
Ospra 18.84 PED
Oil 6.83 PED
Vorn 5.8 PED
Binary 3.75 PED
Azur 3.84 PED
Nexus 3.22 PED
Star 10.24 PED
Xelo 4.68 PED

Place between Phyton and Mamba might be bad for your equipment :)
 
Place between Phyton and Mamba might be bad for your equipment :)

Show-off!

I hit duru and megan in that server, but this time all Kaz/Ospra :(
 
Show-off!

I hit duru and megan in that server, but this time all Kaz/Ospra :(

Nope :laugh: There is just low overall MU: Narc, Megan (currently under 120-122) and Duru
 
Nope :laugh: There is just low overall MU: Narc, Megan (currently under 120-122) and Duru

Yep you're right. Should have done my research. Never going back there :yay:
 
Run#7

Probes: 144 PED
Finder Decay after MU: 8.712 PED
UL Excavator Decay: 0.75 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.14 PED

Total misc costs: 9.602 PED

TT return: 98.63 PED

Breakdown:
Energized 7.5
Crude 10.66
Mager 5.00
Hebred 6.75
Edres 0.65
Cald 5.95
Langotz 4.50
Lyta 4.75
Gold 6.00
Niks 16.90
Sweetstuff 4.05
Lyst 13.44
Cave 12.48

TT return: 68.49%
TT return (including Finder decay): 64.92%

Return after MU: 115.84 PED

Profit Margin :-19.55% or -28.16 PED

Profit after misc costs: -37.762 PED

Comments: Unamped. First half of the run was @ 8 Coins. Hit plenty of oil, cave sap and lyst, zero Wenrex. Second half was at Khorum Coast. As usual, lousy hit rate with some gold and langotz, mostly Niksarium. TT returns continue to sink. Will be leaving Arkadia soon. Hopefully things get better @ Caly! I'd love to go to RT but trying to get things sold there is aggravating to say the least.
 
Misc costs are listed at the top. Finder Decay + Drill Decay + Fuel Cost.

About 90% of it is Finder Decay (which is supposedly returned to you in loot).

That reminds me that some people believe finder decay affects your claim size. I personally don't buy that and track my costs the same way you do as decay also needs to pay for finder radius, which one would assume affects hit rate, and the added decay that comes with depth. I've been a bit of testing, but have never been able to detect a difference with any statistical test yet.
 
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