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ZPF Mining Log

Prologue: I'm bored... Wtb migration

Run#4

TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 568.94 PED
TT return: 741.92 PED
Cost(with MU, Drill decay): 582.19 PED
Return after MU: 869.30 PED
Avg MU: 117.17%
Misc Fees (auction, refiner, fuel): 11.00 PED

Comments: I guess all the TT return complaints were NONSENSE. I'm happy to be back in the green. Even though my profit margin was only ~3%. Would likely be double that if the economy wasn't so weak right now. Things will pick up once migration hits, for sure.

For now I can just relax with some more unamped research and lose tons of PED selling my tiny stacks to resellers :dunce:

Anyone know a spot for DUNKEL? :eyecrazy:

-------------------------------------------------------

As of 5/22/2016

Planetside Mining

TT input: 1965.02
TT output: 1791.98 (91.19%)
Total input: 1997.40
Total output: 2066.80 (103.47%)
Avg MU: 115.33%
 
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ZPF said:

Comments:I guess all the TT return complaints were NONSENSE.
Click to expand...


112383.25 PED cycled
87579.73 Total return

Overall 77.92952242 % return


They sure were.
 
zeusrocktropian said:
112383.25 PED cycled
87579.73 Total return

Overall 77.92952242 % return
Click to expand...

Are these numbers TT only? No MU?

Untaxed areas mostly?

Are your returns > 90% in crafting or hunting?
 
ZPF said:
Are these numbers TT only? No MU?

Untaxed areas mostly?

Are your returns > 90% in crafting or hunting?
Click to expand...


To sum it up, mostly untaxed (except for that 10-20% with 2.5% tax). Returns are crap in hunting and crafting (tho I haven't crafted much).

What I've posted are the mining TT returns last 3-4 months, no MU included for the level 5 amps I've mostly used.

For example last run was like: 4506 TT spent, 2357.82 TT returned, 52.32623169 %
1502 drops which about 100 were in HELL.
 
zeusrocktropian said:
To sum it up, mostly untaxed (except for that 10-20% with 2.5% tax). Returns are crap in hunting and crafting (tho I haven't crafted much).

What I've posted are the mining TT returns last 3-4 months, no MU included for the level 5 amps I've mostly used.

For example last run was like: 4506 TT spent, 2357.82 TT returned, 52.32623169 %
1502 drops which about 100 were in HELL.
Click to expand...

The only explanation I can think of is if 20-30% of your total mining was in HELL, and your returns there were especially horrible (40-50% total), then your planetside-only returns are more likely closer to 90%.

When you're cycling big amps indoors eventually you reach a point where you need a tower to break even. My estimation is it could take anywhere from 5k to 25k drops for stable results indoors.

Unfortunately we don't have many people posting their long-term indoor mining logs (I wonder why :rolleyes:) so we can't really confirm it.
 
ZPF said:
The only explanation I can think of is if 20-30% of your total mining was in HELL, and your returns there were especially horrible (40-50% total), then your planetside-only returns are more likely closer to 90%.

When you're cycling big amps indoors eventually you reach a point where you need a tower to break even. My estimation is it could take anywhere from 5k to 25k drops for stable results indoors.

Unfortunately we don't have many people posting their long-term indoor mining logs (I wonder why :rolleyes:) so we can't really confirm it.
Click to expand...

It's just low returns anywhere I go, returns in Hell overall weren't 40-50%, were more like the returns on planet.
 
zeusrocktropian said:
It's just low returns anywhere I go, returns in Hell overall weren't 40-50%, were more like the returns on planet.
Click to expand...

What you're experiencing is definitely not normal m8... Even all my mining disciples mining unamped are able to achieve ~85-90% with a few hundred drops.

I wish I knew what to tell you. Maybe try a support case...

Apparently it worked for this guy...

crazyshadow said:
Considering you are not mining over same area and you are not overlapping drops, 300 double NRF is clearly IMPOSSIBLE, something is wrong with your avatar. Ive been mining indoors for years now and my highest double drop NRF is 104. Its common to get to 60, but very rare to reach the 100s.

The best solution for your friend is to open a support ticket.

Ive already seen a similar situation and it was a BUG. I remember a guy at Monria(same indoors system as FOMA) with over 200 NRF drops. He filled a support ticket and MA investigated and they found out it was something bugged or file corrupt in client.

He got reimbursed by MA and a reinstall fixed the issue.

It was about 2 years ago, it is documented into the bug section of Monria forum but they deleted the screenshot post of the support ticket.

Horror true story. Every game is not bugfree I guess... I just hope there aren't to many bugs on the opposite which could advantage players... :scratch2:
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel any better, even with 90% returns the profits in mining are laughable nowadays. I'm lucky to see 5% profit on 118-120% average MU after considering amp markup, auction fees, warp fees, etc...

On 4k cycled with level 5s (10-15 hours of mining) that's 200 PED in profit. And that's the best case scenario...
 
Markups still lousy

Prologue: Think it's time to hibernate till migration.

Run#5

TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 1689.20 PED
TT return: 1804.09 PED
Cost(with MU, Drill decay): 1725.67 PED
Return after MU: 1906 PED
Avg MU: 105.65%
Misc Fees (auction, refiner, fuel): 17.00 PED

Comments: Run #5 is a combination of 3 runs across a few days. I am getting way too lazy with the log to post separate runs all the time. The first two sessions ended with about -72% TT return. Third run (about 15 drops in) was the HOF. Average MU ended up terrible. Don't expect any more updates for a while. There is not much worth mining right now. Except for Pyrite :dunce: At least TT return was extra-friendly for once. Could 95%+ be the actual figure?

-------------------------------------------------------

As of 5/22/2016

Planetside Mining

TT input: 3654.22
TT output: 3596.07 (98.41%)
Total input: 3723.07
Total output: 3972.80 (106.70%)
Avg MU: 110.47%
Misc Fees: ~30 PED
 
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UNAMPED - The adventure begins!

UNAMPED - The Adventure Begins!

Well, I'm still in hibernation mode as markups are all over the place and auctions are moving too slow for me to enjoy amped mining. So I decided to start a little project.

This is the perfect time to test this theory as my last cycle period ended at ~95% TT return.

Hypothesis: It is possible to sustain a mining career in this game with a small bankroll and not be completely miserable.

Experiment: Mining unamped on a total budget of 500 PED ($50 USD, the average cost for a new console videogame) for Probes. Tracking all costs/fees meticulously. Only using low level equipment. Will attempt to stream runs on Twitch occasionally. No hunting or crafting mixed in.

Tools: Finder F-105 Tier 0.9, eMine FS(L) Tier 0 @ 105% MU

Stipulations:

A) Minimal to zero MU input

B) Maximize MU output

C) Learn from mistakes

D) Build large enough stacks to auction so markup is not lost via dumping goods on re-sellers

E) Calculate markup on sale, track all fees/costs

F) Calypso only; Warp fees/frozen economies are not feasible on this bankroll

G) Have FUN and try not to give up in less than a week :cool:
 
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Unamped Mining: Skill Tracking

Starting Skills:

Geology: 4474.65
Ground Assessment: 3738.30
Mineral Sense: 2763.16
Prospecting: 5029.08
Surveying: 4009.70
Intelligence: 55.40
Perception: 2336.33
Serendipity: 2513.28
 
Unamped Mining - RUN # 1

Run#1

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 132.44 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 0.06 PED
Drill Decay: 0.27 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.13 PED
Total Cost: 132.90 PED

Skill Boosts:
48% for 10 minutes

Return:
68.80 PED Durulium Stone
18.04 PED Belkar Stone
10.00 PED Kanerium Ore
12.25 PED Gazzurdite Stone

Approximate Average Markup: 111.83%

Multipliers: None

TT return: 109.09 PED (82.37%)

Markup Added: N/A

Total Profit/Loss: -23.81 PED

Comments: Markup seems to be bleak out in Shinook at the moment. Managed to build a decent stack of durulium at least.

Conjecture: The mining event @ OLA59 has brought an influx of heavily amped miners to Shinook, causing a depletion of rare resources such as Gazzurdite and Kanerium; while also driving down the price of Belkar to 102%. Shinook may not worth an extended grind during event periods, unless your goal is to break even and/or knock some points off your Belkar Mining Raid mission; or win the event, of course. Slight profit is still possible.
 
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ZPF said:
UNAMPED - The Adventure Begins!

Well, I'm still in hibernation mode as markups are all over the place and auctions are moving too slow for me to enjoy amped mining. So I decided to start a little project.

This is the perfect time to test this theory as my last cycle period ended at ~95% TT return.

Hypothesis: It is possible to sustain a mining career in this game with a small bankroll and not be completely miserable.

Experiment: Mining unamped on a total budget of 500 PED ($50 USD, the average cost for a new console videogame) for Probes. Tracking all costs/fees meticulously. Only using low level equipment. Will attempt to stream runs on Twitch occasionally.

Tools: Finder F-105 Tier 0.9, eMine FS(L) Tier 0 @ 105% MU

Stipulations:

A) Minimal to zero MU input

B) Maximize MU output

C) Learn from mistakes

D) Build large enough stacks to auction so markup is not lost via dumping goods on re-sellers

E) Calculate markup on sale, track all fees/costs

F) Calypso only; Warp fees/frozen economies are not feasible on this bankroll

G) Have FUN and try not to give up in less than a week :cool:
Click to expand...

ZPF, best of luck on your continuing mining endeavors as we had very briefly spoken about this subject area the other day. Glad you're mixing it up and/or trying other things. On sticking with only planet Calypso mining, hmm, hope this pans out like you said, and also tax free areas helps to. Anyways, here is a screen shot of my un-amped run the other day for those interested, and as you can see TT wise it may look like a loss, but however MU is king to bring in the plus :). (didn't mean to steal or jump your thread @ OP).

Explore and mine on!

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=6990&attachmentid=34682

Kind regards,
Vi
 
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Unamped Mining - RUN # 2

Run#2

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 274.75 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 0.24 PED
Drill Decay: 0.76 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.26 PED
Total Cost: 276.01 PED

Skill Boosts:
67% for 6 min
16% for 5 min
Tip: Drilling is the easiest way to hit a boost. Drill as you go, then stop drilling when you hit a boost and start dropping.

Return:
22.40 Durulium Stone
12.00 Belkar Stone
22.89 Lysterium Stone
7.50 Kanerium Ore
18.75 Gazzurdite Stone
5.85 Niksarium Stone
9.00 Gold Stone
14.56 Copper Stone
13.75 Dianum Ore
12.60 Ignisium Stone
19.60 Erdorium Stone
1.90 Alferix Stone
1.20 Azzurdite Stone
45.12 Narcanisum Stone
38.25 Cumbriz Stone
13.90 Zinc Stone
1.18 Melchi Water
1.40 Garcen Grease

Approximate Average Markup: 111.30%

Multipliers: IX Ample (1), VIII Medium (2)

TT return: 261.85 PED (95.30%)

Markup Added: N/A

Profit/Loss: -14.16 PED

Total Profit/Loss: -37.97 PED

Comments: This was a longer run. Almost fell asleep. First 86 drops were on Pempredo Island @ 2.25% Tax. No multipliers were hit on Pempredo. Hit a II Tiny Lyst though... :cool:

My strategy was simple. I hit Pempredo because I know it has Durulium, and I wanted to add to my Shinook stack so I can auction it. It also has Lysterium and I am working on my Stage 3 Lyst mission.

Niksarium is holding a steady ~112% MU so all the more reason to hit Pemp. I ended up hitting some Gold and Ignisium there as well. I didn't go in expecting much markup as Pempredo has an active event.

The next step was to try to bring up my other stacks to auction-worthiness. I hit a few spots, namely spots with Gazz, Kanerium, Gold, and Ignisium. Ended up hitting a lot of trash, but that was expected (Calypso!).

Keep in mind I'm not hitting any "amazing" "secret" spots. These are just average areas with lots of trash MU and some good stuff mixed in. You don't need secrets to sustain yourself as a miner. Just a strategy.

At this point we have dropped exactly 400 PED in probes. Nothing is sold yet. 100 PED in probes left.

Conjecture: After a run with zero multipliers, you can bet your next run is going to have a few. ~200-300 drops with 0 multipliers is possible. Don't let it discourage you.

Loot from Run#1-2
aTKJiB5.png
 
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Good luck on the unamped log. I have recently sold my unlimited Level 2 and have converted my log to unamped mining myself.

Will definitely be watching your log as you progress and see how it compares to mine in the long term.

On a side note do you run Little Big Mining Log (LBML)? If so maybe you could also add a running hit-rate tally to see the drops vs claims ratio?
 
Seregi said:
Good luck on the unamped log. I have recently sold my unlimited Level 2 and have converted my log to unamped mining myself.

Will definitely be watching your log as you progress and see how it compares to mine in the long term.

On a side note do you run Little Big Mining Log (LBML)? If so maybe you could also add a running hit-rate tally to see the drops vs claims ratio?
Click to expand...

IMHO it's not an especially interesting statistic but I will try to remember to include it. Good luck with your log as well!
 
hello,
Gl with your plan, i'll follow it.

It is very interesting because any new miner should start following this way.

Cheers
 
Unamped Mining - RUN # 3 - Video

Run#3

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 85.96 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 0.10 PED
Drill Decay: 0.29 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.04 PED
Total Cost: 86.39 PED

Video: [video]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5xgtd9hJyVoS2syOW9Wb3NmSU0[/video]

Return:
0.60 Typonolic Steam
3.42 Lytairian Dust
17.00 Gazzurdite Stone
11.70 Cumbriz Stone
1.00 Erionite Stone
4.50 Dianthus Liquid
5.80 Blausariam Stone
86.00 Garcen Grease

Approximate Average Markup: 108.80%

Multipliers: XIV Great (1)

TT return: 130.02 PED (151.25%)

Profit/Loss: +43.63 PED

Markup Added: +4.71

Total Profit/Loss: +10.37 PED

Total Fruit/Stones/Dung: 17 Bombardo, 42 Brukite

Comments: A few reasons I chose this spot. Wanted to build my Cumbriz stack, and get my daily Cumbriz mining mission done. Also wanted to build my Gazz stack. This area also has Dianthus and Typonolic so I searched Enmatter as well. And worst case, if I hit Blaus, at least I'm knocking a few points into that mission. Hit a Garcen global and now I have a nice size Garcen stack to auction as well. That puts us above 100% TT return within our first three Runs.

The 4.71 markup added was from a sale to a reseller. 49.01 TT from an earlier run sold for 53.72 PED. Still have lots more to sell.

Why did I sell to a reseller?

1) Getting low on probes, need liquidity
2) Not confident on if/when I will have auctionable stacks of these specific minerals
3) Price on these goods seem volatile and may be headed for a downswing
4) Auction fees are too high to risk

Unamped mining seems easy to sustain on a low budget so far. TT returns might be lucky? Will have to wait and see how the next few runs go. Liquidity is becoming a problem. Need to make more sales soon.

Conjecture: 500 PED is enough to bankroll a decent mining career. But I suspect 1000 PED is more suitable for Caly, as most of the servers have diverse resource mixes and you will end up with a lot of small stacks that you can't auction. For maximum profit, 500 PED is not ideal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Seregi, forgot to track hit rate unfortunately. But I suppose a video is better :)

@Antrace, hope you get something out of it. Feel free to post questions.
 
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funny how you get that high tt returns... when i mine unamped i usually get a hitraze of 31-38% depending on how good the run goes and that ends in a tt return of 85% max but more likely is something around 77%. so either you are quite lucky considering the size of the deposits you hit or the sample size is just far too low...
 
Me Really Never said:
funny how you get that high tt returns... when i mine unamped i usually get a hitraze of 31-38% depending on how good the run goes and that ends in a tt return of 85% max but more likely is something around 77%. so either you are quite lucky considering the size of the deposits you hit or the sample size is just far too low...
Click to expand...

I plan to cycle this same 500 PED at least 4 to 8 times (assuming I don't give up from the sheer boredom) to give people an idea of what the long term results look like.

I've had 50-70% returns on unamped runs plenty of times. I've endured extended hitrates as low as 20-25%. We'll see some of that sooner or later. Risk of ruin is still there on a small bankroll like this, with enough bad luck. But I believe that's where MU comes into play.

FYI: If I hadn't hit that Garcen global on Run#3, return would have been ~50% :broke:
 
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Amped cycle

Prologue: Had to take a break from unamped mining as prices are finally starting to swing up. I will maybe consider picking up the project after migration if time allows.

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 5562.08 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 1.89 PED
Drill Decay: 13.31 PED
Fuel Cost: 4.30 PED
Amplifier MU: 101.60 PED
Refiner: 3.00 PED
Total Cost: 5686.18 PED

Auction Fees: 63.55 PED

TT return: 5094.82 PED (91.60%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): +1007.17

Total Profit/Loss: +415.81 PED

Comments: Burned 22 amps on this cycle. For the first 16 amps I was floating at about 60-65% TT return. The next 5 amps slowly crept me back up to 80%. And on the final amp hit a small HOF. It was a painful weekend :yup:

The markup added here includes markup on the remaining loot from the last few unamped runs. Rushed a lot of the sales and explored some new areas. Results were not that great unfortunately.

In other news, I sold off my adjusted drill to make an offer on something I wanted. Then I changed my mind. So I'm in the market for a new adjusted drill :dunce:
 
Quick unamped run

Prologue: Didn't have much time for mining today. Decided to drop a few probes unamped and see if I could pick up the rest of the PED I was owed!

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 346.19 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 6.60 PED
Drill Decay: 1.29 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.42 PED
Amplifier MU: N/A
Refiner: 0.29 PED
Total Cost: 354.79 PED

Auction Fees: 10.82

TT return: 778.25 PED (224.80%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): +140.01

Profit/Loss: +563.47

Comments: Figured I would still be on an upswing since the last run didn't go so well. I was right :cool:

Decided to end the run early since things were getting ugly after the HOF.
 
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Prologue: Just a quick unamped run using some shrapnel I got from killing longtooth (so.. much... shrapnel :eyecrazy:). Was expecting a horrible TT return but I guess I'll pay for this later :laugh:

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes+Finder Decay): 365.94 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 6.97 PED
Drill Decay: 3.16 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.28 PED
Amplifier MU: N/A
Refiner: 0.17 PED
Total Cost: 376.52 PED

Average Markup: 119.44%

Auction Fees: 7.29 PED

TT return: 589.58 PED (161.11%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): +107.36

Profit/Loss: +320.42

Comments: Thinking about starting a hunting log once I max out my sword. But it's hard to tear away from mining as markups are so great right now (compared to pre-migration). Also managed to grab a new adjusted drill so I can actually mine now :yay:
 
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I'm getting crappy returns whenever I'm using universal ammo for mining. Not sure what to think of it.
 
Haruto Rat said:
I'm getting crappy returns whenever I'm using universal ammo for mining. Not sure what to think of it.
Click to expand...

My first ~60 drops in that last run I hit 2 claims (all planetside). I was starting to think uni ammo is cursed!

I rarely use uni ammo, but so far haven't noticed any difference. Will be using it more often now if I decide to take this hunting log seriously.
 
Prologue: Had over 500 PED in shrapnel to burn from Cyrene hunting, ended up being a lousy run, but that was expected. Saved by markup.

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes/Uni Ammo+Finder Decay): 591.10 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 11.25 PED
Drill Decay: 1.72 PED
Fuel Cost: 0.53 PED
Amplifier MU: N/A
Refiner: 0.27 PED
Total Cost: 604.87 PED

Average Markup: 128.63%

Auction Fees: 12.01 PED

TT return: 524.57 PED (88.74%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): 139.73 PED

Profit/Loss: +59.43 PED

Comments: Trying to save up enough profit to not feel bad about doing something stupid (like my 60k Kerb iron mission)... sigh. Only hit one small multiplier on this run. No globals.
 
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To Hell and Back

Prologue: Zzz

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes/Uni Ammo+Finder Decay): 7462.53 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 15.80 PED
Drill Decay: 37.35 PED
Amplifier MU: 326.25
Refiner: 31.92 PED
Total Cost: 7873.85 PED

Misc Costs:
Caly to RT: 3.08 PED
Sleip: 0.56 PED
Warp: 14.00 PED

Approximate Average Markup: ~116%

Auction Fees: 90.85 PED

TT return: 7281.92 PED (97.58%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): +1360.19

Profit/Loss: +768.26

Comments: Meh, I started this run out thinking I would go for a tower. Slowly but surely I changed my mind. Kinda lost interest in mining for the time being. Thinking I will stick mostly to hunting till migration is over. MU ended up being trash because of all the Blaus. D-Class MU really hurts! :laugh:

nJKg156.jpg
 
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Prologue: Lousy cycle. About 1800 drops, level 3/5 amps, no decent multipliers.

Cost:
TT Cost (Probes/Uni Ammo+Finder Decay): 3219.35 PED
Markup cost on Finder: 16.02 PED
Drill Decay: 7.42 PED
Fuel Cost: 1.80 PED
Amplifier MU: 67.10 PED
Refiner: 1.54 PED
Total Cost: 3313.23 PED

Auction Fees: 44.29 PED

TT return: 2737.61 PED (85%)

Markup Added (After Auction Fees): +675.04

Profit/Loss: +99.42 PED
 
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