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Entropia Revival Project: "Why is loot So Bad?

FauconIoji

FauconIoji

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Faucon Ioji VanAlkel
"Why has loot been so bad?"
I think this is the most asked question in Entropia right now. Why has loot been down so much?

Well, the Entropia Revival took some time to examine that. I don't think this is the answer. In fact, I think it's only a small part of the answer.

But, hey. Every little bit helps, right?

As always, give me your thoughts on the latest blog entry.

Good Luck Out There,
-Faucon
 
It sounds like one of those topics a DJ Radio host may pose before hosting his weekly show.....




"Why is loot so bad?"


:dj:


(Before you think I'm being mean, I like Faucon, good DJ )
 
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Mega said:
It sounds like one of those topics a DJ Radio host may pose before hosting his weekly show.....




"Why is loot so bad?"


:dj:


(Before you think I'm being mean, I like Faucon, good DJ )
Click to expand...

:lolup:

LOL. That was good. Well chosen clip.
 
Strange... Why isn't my loot bad?


Can it be because I don't constantly bitch about issues that don't exist?
 
Yeah my loot seems fine... then again I don't hunt, but I've been at a TT profit for a few weeks now at over 15k cycled. I'm just staying to see a downturn now
 
Bad loot ?!?! Where ? when ? how ?
 
my loot isn't great atm, but this always seems to happen while im on caly, i get like 85-90%ish return on caly, 90-95% off caly, so i think its just caly that doesn't like me
 
The Jetman said:
my loot isn't great atm, but this always seems to happen while im on caly, i get like 85-90%ish return on caly, 90-95% off caly, so i think its just caly that doesn't like me
Click to expand...

Confirmed. Caly is a piece of :wtg::bomb::censored::censored:

Let's not turn this into another "Loot is terrible!!!" ....... "No, my loot is good therefore my conclusion using this astounding sample size of 1 disproves your statement!!" thread.
 
If you copy and paste your latest blog entry here.. then we have something to talk about, if not, then this thread is merely an attempt to gather clicks/attention for your blog.

There must be some rule in here about advertising other blogs/forums..
 
Spawn said:
If you copy and paste your latest blog entry here.. then we have something to talk about, if not, then this thread is merely an attempt to gather clicks/attention for your blog.

There must be some rule in here about advertising other blogs/forums..
Click to expand...

don't worry, not much intresting in it.. do quests is the main subject..

I did quests, more then once I completed a quest as first, more then once, I failed to break even on that quest..
If you really wonna make a blog like that, atleast have some descent turnover numbers to backup your statement :laugh:
 
Tested a week on small daikiba just before halloween.
With those tiny, tiny runs - 50 ped ammo at a time and cycle the looted ammo until a101 (on opalo sga) broke - loss was exactly 400 ped. The loot was not sellable with a markup other than wool. Nothing was in big enough amounts to be sellable at auction without dipping below TT value or overshooting the MU by way too much, given auction fees.

No idea how many runs I'd have to do to eventually be skint but it wouldn't be that long. This was a week of intense play and it's not looking good. You'd think the loot would average out over time with the huge amount of mobs killed but it doesn't. Small losses and they're a constant. I can't even imagine how that would have felt if I was in the habit of doing long runs with big guns, most loot seems to be MU 103-105% with extractors entirely unsellable.
 
Meg said:
Tested a week on small daikiba just before halloween.
With those tiny, tiny runs - 50 ped ammo at a time and cycle the looted ammo until a101 (on opalo sga) broke - loss was exactly 400 ped. The loot was not sellable with a markup other than wool. Nothing was in big enough amounts to be sellable at auction without dipping below TT value or overshooting the MU by way too much, given auction fees.

No idea how many runs I'd have to do to eventually be skint but it wouldn't be that long. This was a week of intense play and it's not looking good. You'd think the loot would average out over time with the huge amount of mobs killed but it doesn't. Small losses and they're a constant. I can't even imagine how that would have felt if I was in the habit of doing long runs with big guns, most loot seems to be MU 103-105% with extractors entirely unsellable.
Click to expand...

in b4 someone accuses you of one of the following

1) not cycled enough

2) hunted wrong mob, low mu! you should hunt one of the many high mu mobs (lol)

3) you're a liar / you aren't properly tracking your returns

:lolup::lolup::lolup:
 
ZPF said:
in b4 someone accuses you of one of the following

1) not cycled enough

2) hunted wrong mob, low mu! you should hunt one of the many high mu mobs (lol)

3) you're a liar / you aren't properly tracking your returns

:lolup::lolup::lolup:
Click to expand...

I don't track my returns super well, they would be entirely correct :) Just had x number of ped at start and went home with x number of ped after doing one mind-numbingly dull grind. I figured using opalo sga with a101 in adjusted pixie would allow me to skip all that irritating business with L markups and the other usual suspects. I did hunt the only mob I could think of that would allow me to do that many kills with very tiny potential loss (and very tiny potential gain). I was surprised to find it was so relatively much, all in all - but as you say that others will say: it's not actually tracked to note just how much PED ammo was cycled so we can't see a % value and thus the reported loss is useless.
We can define it like this, perhaps - I had no more than 900 ped free and then I did amany many many many many many small runs on the same mob and after selling loot I have 500 ped left. That is after selling with whatever small MU I was able to squeeze out. I bullied a trader into buying collected extractors at low markup.

Oh and I never tell the truth and that's the truth!
 
Meg said:
I don't track my returns super well, they would be entirely correct :) Just had x number of ped at start and went home with x number of ped after doing one mind-numbingly dull grind. I figured using opalo sga with a101 in adjusted pixie would allow me to skip all that irritating business with L markups and the other usual suspects. I did hunt the only mob I could think of that would allow me to do that many kills with very tiny potential loss (and very tiny potential gain). I was surprised to find it was so relatively much, all in all - but as you say that others will say: it's not actually tracked to note just how much PED ammo was cycled so we can't see a % value and thus the reported loss is useless.
We can define it like this, perhaps - I had no more than 900 ped free and then I did amany many many many many many small runs on the same mob and after selling loot I have 500 ped left. That is after selling with whatever small MU I was able to squeeze out. I bullied a trader into buying collected extractors at low markup.

Oh and I never tell the truth and that's the truth!
Click to expand...

To illustrate why you (and probably most of people who cry that they get 50% returns) calculate it wrong:

Start with 100 PED - go hunt - come back and have 90 PED (90%)
90 PED - hunt - 81 PED (90%)
81 PED - hunt - 73 PED
etc etc
after few cycles like that 50 PED left...
run to forum and cry: "shit I only get 50% return!!!"

To know real return over longer period you need to know sum of PED spend and sum of PED looted.
And it had been proved by many people that it is oscillating around 90%.

Now you can check it yourself (like I did when I was non believer) or join growing army of ignorant trolls who claim otherwise but don't have real logs to prove it.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
To illustrate why you (and probably most of people who cry that they get 50% returns) calculate it wrong:

Start with 100 PED - go hunt - come back and have 90 PED (90%)
90 PED - hunt - 81 PED (90%)
81 PED - hunt - 73 PED
etc etc
after few cycles like that 50 PED left...
run to forum and cry: "shit I only get 50% return!!!"

To know real return over longer period you need to know sum of PED spend and sum of PED looted.
And it had been proved by many people that it is oscillating around 90%.

Now you can check it yourself (like I did when I was non believer) or join growing army of ignorant trolls who claim otherwise but don't have real logs to prove it.
Click to expand...

What about the hunts when I go out with 400 ped and come back with 250? or Go mining with 100 peds and come back with 75? Then next I'll just get 500 back from my 250? I dont' disagree with the idea of 90% but I do not believe 90% is a constant or a "give-in" for everyone. Why can't I look at what you say and see it as I started with 100 and when I stopped I had 73? I am working to track my activities better in the near future - all I know is that I deposit x amount and at the end of the month I have almost nothing. I guess from a point of view you could say that I got 90% each time until 90% was 90% of 10 peds, but my point of view is that I put $100 in and ended with $10 in a month (roughly speaking)
 
Meg said:
Tested a week on small daikiba just before halloween.
cycle the looted ammo until a101 (on opalo sga) broke

Unless you meant otherwise, I think that is your problem right there. Looted ammo equals TT loot. Using it cuts into TT return from a hunt.
Click to expand...
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
To illustrate why you (and probably most of people who cry that they get 50% returns) calculate it wrong:

Start with 100 PED - go hunt - come back and have 90 PED (90%)
90 PED - hunt - 81 PED (90%)
81 PED - hunt - 73 PED
etc etc
after few cycles like that 50 PED left...
run to forum and cry: "shit I only get 50% return!!!"

To know real return over longer period you need to know sum of PED spend and sum of PED looted.
And it had been proved by many people that it is oscillating around 90%.

Now you can check it yourself (like I did when I was non believer) or join growing army of ignorant trolls who claim otherwise but don't have real logs to prove it.
Click to expand...

that why they say you need a big bank role too get 90 to 95 % just think you cylcle 1 000 000 ped during the year it cost you 100k to 50k for one year playing thats from 500 to 1000 dollar a month and they say 90 and up percent is great
 
Luke Redmond said:
Looted ammo equals TT loot. Using it cuts into TT return from a hunt.
Click to expand...


I have a problem tracking loot here. I hunt with weapon cells and when I loot more weapon cells it puts them in the same pile as the ones I'm shooting. How do I get a good count of the cells I loot?

Please don't tell me to count every loot window or how many shots with which gun. I just know that's not going to happen.
 
DavinFelth said:
What about the hunts when I go out with 400 ped and come back with 250? or Go mining with 100 peds and come back with 75? Then next I'll just get 500 back from my 250? I dont' disagree with the idea of 90% but I do not believe 90% is a constant or a "give-in" for everyone. Why can't I look at what you say and see it as I started with 100 and when I stopped I had 73? I am working to track my activities better in the near future - all I know is that I deposit x amount and at the end of the month I have almost nothing. I guess from a point of view you could say that I got 90% each time until 90% was 90% of 10 peds, but my point of view is that I put $100 in and ended with $10 in a month (roughly speaking)
Click to expand...

Yes 90% is definitely not constant but rather tendency over longer period of time, or rather over certain PED cycled.
This time/PED cycled depend on what kind of mob you hunt (i.e. different for small Atrox hunter and different for big Dasps), but for most of us (i.e. medium players) I would estimate it somewhere around 50k PED (maybe less) cycled or so to get close to that 90% (either side of it).

If you start with 100 PED and you hunt smart - hunting right mob for size of your bankroll (not going to kill one huge mob with it and hope for HoF) - you would need to do a number of hunts to end up with 10 PED.
Lets assume 90% tt return (in reality they will oscillate but will average to that magic 90%).
Quick simulation in excel shows us that 21 hunts would be needed to end up with 11 PED:
Code: 
tt spend   tt returned
100	90
90	81
81	72.9
72.9	65.61
65.61	59.049
59.049	53.1441
53.1441	47.82969
47.82969	43.046721
43.046721	38.7420489
38.7420489	34.86784401
34.86784401	31.38105961
31.38105961	28.24295365
28.24295365	25.41865828
25.41865828	22.87679245
22.87679245	20.58911321
20.58911321	18.53020189
18.53020189	16.6771817
16.6771817	15.00946353
15.00946353	13.50851718
13.50851718	12.15766546
12.15766546	10.94189891

Now, what most whining people think would be - "I have 11% tt return this month! This game sux!"

In reality if you sum spending and returns and calculate real return it is:
PED spend: 890.5810109
PED returned: 801.5229098
tt return: 90%

That is completely different picture of exactly the same situation.
 
Greybeard said:
I have a problem tracking loot here. I hunt with weapon cells and when I loot more weapon cells it puts them in the same pile as the ones I'm shooting. How do I get a good count of the cells I loot?

Please don't tell me to count every loot window or how many shots with which gun. I just know that's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

If you hunt solo the most accurate method is to calculate ammo spend via decay on weapon or amp (taking into account enhancers on weapon).

I used to do hunts with decaying full amp, and I knew how much ammo I spend that way on entire hunt.

If you hunt in team you have all loot in log file, just need to parse it.
 
1 word "Entropy"
 
Greybeard said:
I have a problem tracking loot here. I hunt with weapon cells and when I loot more weapon cells it puts them in the same pile as the ones I'm shooting. How do I get a good count of the cells I loot?

Please don't tell me to count every loot window or how many shots with which gun. I just know that's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Use only universal ammo.
 
Luke Redmond said:
Meg said:
Tested a week on small daikiba just before halloween.
cycle the looted ammo until a101 (on opalo sga) broke
Click to expand...

Unless you meant otherwise, I think that is your problem right there. Looted ammo equals TT loot. Using it cuts into TT return from a hunt.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're trying to say.

It's not about how big or many runs I did, it's about at the end of the week with burning very small amounts of ammo for a very long time, I'm out of a lot of ped, comparatively. It doesn't matter if I cycled 5000 ped with my opalo sga or if I went through 20000. It was a week of very long sessions and I'm down by a little less than half of the ped I started with. Same mob, no diversions, very reasonable gear vs mob, no noticeable armor decay cost.

I wonder if it's the a101 that makes this a loss to that extent? I know it's supposed to make it all more eco but I'm open for new ideas.

Ridiculous really, it's such small mobs and long time. Imagine a beginner who has none of the evede, no amp, no pixie perhaps and just the starter pack cool-looking-but-not-so-good armor and some L weapon with slower reload and a bad first aid pack eating into his economy. That gamer would easily be out by twice my small loss. He'd start at 1k ped and...oh wait. A beginner? He'd start at 100 ped and be out of ammo and ped within a day.

I have some small skills and some eco gear, which is why I wanted to try this. It doesn't work. My eco gear did nothing - or the loot is just dreadful to a previously unheard of extent.

If you buy the eco gear, it does nothing. Don't bother trying to invest in gear, invest in land deeds seems to be the message here.

EDIT I mean I got a week of game out of that cash, it's just a feeling that it wasn't worth it. Where is the fun in that? I'd gain more by standing still chatting fr a week. I didn't even hunt some fun mob, just small stuff with small potential for loot bot also small potential for loss.
 
Last edited:
EU uses a dynamic system at it's core, question is which one ?

Does anyone have any ideas of ones that we can attempt to get a match for ?
 
I was wondering for couple months the same.
Also I posted about in this forum too.
My runs are very small those days actually, so despite my results I kept my patience to see how long it will be.
One day I saw things get better and better and some globals made my faith to be return :)
What I figure out?
Loot still works as sine waves!
But somehow and in some cases (mine too) those sine waves are extended more than usual (more PED needed to be recycled).
The result remain the same and it's around 80-90% returns.
 
Sorry I never got to respond to any of this... I'm an exec for a retail chain out here in the real world... and black friday is approaching. :grumble:

I think I should point out that the goal here wasn't to perform a scientific study, but rather to point out an observation, as most of my blog posts are. They're for the everyday entropian, of which there are more of than most of us on PCF realize sometimes, I think.

That being said...

Spawn said:
If you copy and paste your latest blog entry here.. then we have something to talk about, if not, then this thread is merely an attempt to gather clicks/attention for your blog.

There must be some rule in here about advertising other blogs/forums..
Click to expand...

Well, as you can see, my blog is ad-free, so you're point here is... well.

I don't copy and paste it because I like to give people the opportunity to read the rest of the blog. Also helps avoid the "LOL DID NOT READ TL;DR" crap. Furthermore, I get logged out of PCF after five minutes and formatting is a pain. I don't make a dime off of that blog. Never have, never will.

R4tt3xx said:
1 word "Entropy"
Click to expand...

Yeah basically.

Billy Jean Ruby said:
I was wondering for couple months the same.
Also I posted about in this forum too.
My runs are very small those days actually, so despite my results I kept my patience to see how long it will be.
One day I saw things get better and better and some globals made my faith to be return :)
What I figure out?
Loot still works as sine waves!
But somehow and in some cases (mine too) those sine waves are extended more than usual (more PED needed to be recycled).
The result remain the same and it's around 80-90% returns.
Click to expand...


I would be inclined to agree... but I'm just not sure that's true. I wonder if someone should do a long study and correlate it with other factors, such as the launch and end of MA ad campaigns. That would be something that hasn't previously been beaten into the ground and might provide some new insight.
 
Meg said:
I understand what you're trying to say.

It's not about how big or many runs I did, it's about at the end of the week with burning very small amounts of ammo for a very long time, I'm out of a lot of ped, comparatively. It doesn't matter if I cycled 5000 ped with my opalo sga or if I went through 20000. It was a week of very long sessions and I'm down by a little less than half of the ped I started with. Same mob, no diversions, very reasonable gear vs mob, no noticeable armor decay cost.

I wonder if it's the a101 that makes this a loss to that extent? I know it's supposed to make it all more eco but I'm open for new ideas.

Ridiculous really, it's such small mobs and long time. Imagine a beginner who has none of the evede, no amp, no pixie perhaps and just the starter pack cool-looking-but-not-so-good armor and some L weapon with slower reload and a bad first aid pack eating into his economy. That gamer would easily be out by twice my small loss. He'd start at 1k ped and...oh wait. A beginner? He'd start at 100 ped and be out of ammo and ped within a day.

I have some small skills and some eco gear, which is why I wanted to try this. It doesn't work. My eco gear did nothing - or the loot is just dreadful to a previously unheard of extent.

If you buy the eco gear, it does nothing. Don't bother trying to invest in gear, invest in land deeds seems to be the message here.

EDIT I mean I got a week of game out of that cash, it's just a feeling that it wasn't worth it. Where is the fun in that? I'd gain more by standing still chatting fr a week. I didn't even hunt some fun mob, just small stuff with small potential for loot bot also small potential for loss.
Click to expand...


Oh Hey!

I have exactly the same problem, I can lose 500 peds in a night without a problem.
 
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LucidTerror said:
Oh Hey!

I have exactly the same problem, I can lose 500 peds in a night without a problem.
Click to expand...

Read Teiwaz posts in this thread and you ll get answer for that problem. I can lose 500ped in minutes if i want, but i dont go telling everyone that i lost 500peds in minutes because i refused to adapt to the current system. For me crafting 50ped per click bp 200clicks= 10k ped spent and probably 1k lost (it can take just few minutes to do so) BUT if i get 1k loss i will find a way to turn the items i crafted to profit, as this 10% loss should always be taken into consideration before spending money. Think first, click later.

The main question of this thread is phrased incorrectly, right would be" Is the loot bad?" or "What am i doing wrong?"

And yes it is also not a "General Economy discussion" here, but more like advertisement to some blog that wants to share information that it doesnt have.
 
whiteknut said:
Read Teiwaz posts in this thread and you ll get answer for that problem. I can lose 500ped in minutes if i want, but i dont go telling everyone that i lost 500peds in minutes because i refused to adapt to the current system. For me crafting 50ped per click bp 200clicks= 10k ped spent and probably 1k lost (it can take just few minutes to do so) BUT if i get 1k loss i will find a way to turn the items i crafted to profit, as this 10% loss should always be taken into consideration before spending money. Think first, click later.

The main question of this thread is phrased incorrectly, right would be" Is the loot bad?" or "What am i doing wrong?"

And yes it is also not a "General Economy discussion" here, but more like advertisement to some blog that wants to share information that it doesnt have.
Click to expand...

Again, blog is ad-free, so not much point in advertising. I do a lot on world to help new players and blogs like this one, and all the others I've written, are not a scientific evaluation. They are part of a greater purpose, which is to help those players who can't afford to cycle 500ped understand why their pockets drain so fast, and to help them get a grasp on the economy from a more broad, generalized perspective that isn't laser focused on runs and cycling.

Anyone with experience can run a PED cycle. Anyone without it or the funds to learn is stuck wondering why the economy is harsh. This blog aims to help clarify that and provide a new thing to consider, which really is "How do MindArk's actions affect our loot?"
 
If you want to help new players, the best thing you can do is to stop inflicting your ill-informed, badly-researched drivel on them.

You've been here for 5+ years and you're still arguing about the price of sweat. I think that says it all.
 
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