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Land Area Transform mapping + Fermat spiral = mining layout

R

R4tt3xx

I want to believe
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
2,175
Location
South Africa
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Freelancer
Avatar Name
Alexis Sky Greenstar
I am sick of hearing people say that mining is all random.. Here is my take on it.

The central core is a fermat spiral that has been distorted via polygonal mapping into various shapes, like land areas and the foma areas for example. It's a real cheap trick that Mindark should remove or if the Entropia players are smart should be abused once the maps have been made.

I lack the math skill to map the land areas but the square map is relatively easy to do and has been constructed. I intend to use such a map when I mine.

https://mediatech.aalto.fi/~jaakko/T111-5310/K2013/JGT-97.pdf
http://thatsmaths.com/2014/06/05/sunflowers-and-fibonacci-models-of-efficiency/
https://www.math.stonybrook.edu/~bishop/papers/fastmap.pdf

Random mining is a simple texture map !!
 
Nah, too complicated.
 
would be interested to know your hit rate when you use this theory in practice :)
 
I'll believe this theory when someone posts a log with over a 100% TT return over 2 years..

There's some built in correction mechanism MA uses to balance returns out to around 90%.
 
Rocket192 said:
There's some built in correction mechanism MA uses to balance returns out to around 90%.
Click to expand...

Mmm yes, I believe the scientific term is, "bad loot" :wise:
 
welcome back

Welcome back, your theories have always made mining interesting. Not that I pretend to understand them completely. Thanks for making thing interesting again been very bored with mining lately, especially the loosing ped part :)
 
Rocket192 said:
I'll believe this theory when someone posts a log with over a 100% TT return over 2 years..

There's some built in correction mechanism MA uses to balance returns out to around 90%.
Click to expand...

Bingo !! The correction system is ......... SKILLS, an alternate reward program or what I call it, hey player "Mindark owes you"
 
Djinn said:
Welcome back, your theories have always made mining interesting. Not that I pretend to understand them completely. Thanks for making thing interesting again been very bored with mining lately, especially the loosing ped part :)
Click to expand...

With this Mindark can fill the loot pool with the exact amount of loot they wish and it's as simple as drawing up a spreadsheet.

I will post an example, once I make one.
 
AtamiKiangola said:
The hit rate must be a fermat spiral I guess :) :) :)
Click to expand...

That is possible, hang on a sec.... The turn angle of the spiral is 137 degrees ie 137/360 of a full cycle. If you reverse engineer the formula and do this 27/100*360. 97.2 degrees... Very interesting.....

The % loot return can be represented by the exponent of the spiral. Take a look at the mining size table and tell me which one stands out !!

Thank you my dear. The best numbers to use as turn angles are irrational. 27/100 fits the bill perfectly. I will adjust the spiral and let you know !!!

Well DONE !!
 
I thing I did notice last night when playing with the sheet is a major increase in the frequency of skillgains. So it got me thinking. Prospecting, surveying, geo and Assessment skills indicate to most people that there are deposits nearby, but if I know that there is a deposit below me, why would I miss ?

Immediately depth came to mind. A quick search on the internet for 3d fermat spirals yielded a cone or a helix. I have decided to go with a helix as it just fits better. A helix has theta = the z axis, ie theta = depth. By altering the turns of the spiral, I can match my depth up to the spiral.

There is a compromise however. I am suspecting that matching the depths up will change the hit % due to the change in angle.
 
If you plot your mining claims in mathlab using all 3 axis, X, Y and Z you'll over time see there's no logical pattern. You'll come up with a pattern like this:

pyplot_3d.jpg

I am not bashing the thread starter for his enthusiasm, I have respect for him. How ever, when it comes to figuring out the mining system in Entropia I think we will fall victim of Apopenia, seeing patterns in where there's no logical pattern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
 
R4tt3xx said:
I thing I did notice last night when playing with the sheet is a major increase in the frequency of skillgains. So it got me thinking. Prospecting, surveying, geo and Assessment skills indicate to most people that there are deposits nearby, but if I know that there is a deposit below me, why would I miss ?

Immediately depth came to mind. A quick search on the internet for 3d fermat spirals yielded a cone or a helix. I have decided to go with a helix as it just fits better. A helix has theta = the z axis, ie theta = depth. By altering the turns of the spiral, I can match my depth up to the spiral.

There is a compromise however. I am suspecting that matching the depths up will change the hit % due to the change in angle.
Click to expand...
Of all your posts I understood them all lol, will try my hand at mining and will use some of what you have shared and hopefully share some interesting results...

How has your TT returns been since trying to scope out this helix?

Another question I wanted to ask is, if it is in the shape of a helix, is there a point the further down you go and if so, would that not mean that the claim would appear close to the centre?
 
I have been looking once again at the math and the helix wont cut it, A conical one is a better fit.

As stated I am looking for a way to incorporate depth into my sheet, in both the helix and conical spiral z axis = theta. Willl be testing in a few hours, see if my hit rate increases.

PS hitrate with a rookie finder is a lot better than a 105, I keep on getting skillgains with the 105.
 
M Rufen Power said:
Of all your posts I understood them all lol, will try my hand at mining and will use some of what you have shared and hopefully share some interesting results...

How has your TT returns been since trying to scope out this helix?

Another question I wanted to ask is, if it is in the shape of a helix, is there a point the further down you go and if so, would that not mean that the claim would appear close to the centre?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the helix idea, its cant be a helix, conical spiral would be better and matches fermat spiral to a t. A depth less than average finder would rotate the one direction, and would reverse greater than average. This I can test :)
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_coordinate_system

"Unique coordinates[edit]
Any spherical coordinate triplet (r, θ, φ) specifies a single point of three-dimensional space. On the other hand, every point has infinitely many equivalent spherical coordinates. One can add or subtract any number of full turns to either angular measure without changing the angles themselves, and therefore without changing the point. It is also convenient, in many contexts, to allow negative radial distances, with the convention that (−r, θ, φ) is equivalent to (r, θ + 180°, φ) for any r, θ, and φ. Moreover, (r, −θ, φ) is equivalent to (r, θ, φ + 180°).

If it is necessary to define a unique set of spherical coordinates for each point, one may restrict their ranges. A common choice is:

r ≥ 0
0° ≤ θ ≤ 180° (π rad)
0° ≤ φ < 360° (2π rad)
However, the azimuth φ is often restricted to the interval (−180°, +180°], or (−π, +π] in radians, instead of [0, 360°). This is the standard convention for geographic longitude.

The range [0°, 180°] for inclination is equivalent to [−90°, +90°] for elevation (latitude).

Even with these restrictions, if θ is zero or 180° (elevation is 90° or −90°) then the azimuth angle is arbitrary; and if r is zero, both azimuth and inclination/elevation are arbitrary. To make the coordinates unique, one can use the convention that in these cases the arbitrary coordinates are zero."

In Calypso's case it would be (θ,r,φ) ((TH)eta,(R)ho(P)h(I))

The mirror world of "To Cover Up" ie Calypso

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_(mythology)

"The etymology of Calypso's name is from καλύπτω (kalyptō), meaning "to cover", "to conceal", "to hide", or "to deceive".[11] According to Etymologicum Magnum her name means καλύπτουσα το διανοούμενον (kalýptousa to dianooúmenon), i.e. "concealing the knowledge", which combined with the Homeric epithet δολόεσσα (dolóessa), meaning subtle or wily, justifies the hermetic character of Calypso and her island. καλύπτω is derived from Proto-Indo-European *ḱel-, making it cognate with the English word Hell."
 
You are looking at the pattern over time, the motion is caused by the planets orbit and rotation. It's called quasi-peirodic motion. A spinning planet, orbiting iys star creates a solid torus of points. We are now entering the domain of attractors and other non-eucledian maths.


e-lite said:
If you plot your mining claims in mathlab using all 3 axis, X, Y and Z you'll over time see there's no logical pattern. You'll come up with a pattern like this:

pyplot_3d.jpg

I am not bashing the thread starter for his enthusiasm, I have respect for him. How ever, when it comes to figuring out the mining system in Entropia I think we will fall victim of Apopenia, seeing patterns in where there's no logical pattern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
Click to expand...
 
R4tt3xx said:
You are looking at the pattern over time, the motion is caused by the planets orbit and rotation. It's called quasi-peirodic motion. A spinning planet, orbiting iys star creates a solid torus of points. We are now entering the domain of attractors and other non-eucledian maths.
Click to expand...

:eyecrazy::scratch2:

Um.

The planet we're "mining" on is fake.

It doesn't exist.

There is no orbit.

There is no rotation or quasi-spinning anything.

So, what. The. Actual. Fuck? :dunno:
 
No it exists as a coordinate set xyzt but those are relative coordinates. The planet caly also has the same set of coordinates.

What I am saying is that we need to start looking off world for how this works.

See the mining nodes as points in 3d space, the space where the actual planet calypso is, not where we are on its surface.

Quazi-whatever it is exists in the real world so saying that it does exist, is a false statement.

JohnCapital said:
:eyecrazy::scratch2:

Um.

The planet we're "mining" on is fake.

It doesn't exist.

There is no orbit.

There is no rotation or quasi-spinning anything.

So, what. The. Actual. Fuck? :dunno:
Click to expand...
 
You like to complicate? just that, lol.
If u use to travel in space coordinates from calypso are always the same.
the loot formula is always same except when u mine at places like Foma, Hell or Underground, and its related to each server, the only variable that MA can change is the % of drop of each material in that server.

Mining nodes in space? forget it!
 
I think what he is trying to say is...

...if you take the quasi-helical spiral coordinate theta. Place it on a quantum rotational matrix with center x(x-y)[SUP]4 [/SUP](of course taking into consideration a simple loss of 1x10[SUP]-34[/SUP]) and evaluate the coordinate values after every 3rd orbital exchange. You should be able to obtain a conical helix or spiral conation field that should predict positive hit rates approximate 137% of average non-predicted rates.

Brick
 
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