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MA really screwed up [Weapons buffed to > 100 attacks/min]

Grave Digger said:
Maybe thats the way how MA compensate the MM user for the to much used Enhancers they used over all the years.
Fact is, we have no real advantage in regular hunting, we blow just more ammo in same time, Eco of this Gun stays at same (i realy hope :eyecrazy: )

Now that is for the terminator almost impossible to win a event coz of high collaterals, ppl looking for new Victims when they lose in events
Look at MA not at the ModMerc user!!!
Click to expand...

The advantage can take place in Merry Mayhem Solo event or any event. ModMerc users (any weapon that can be buffed to surpass 100 attack/min) can potentially receive extra 34% DPS which almost rivals Terminator. This was obviously an unintended miscalculated feature from the developers. It is ridiculous to say that the extra DPS does not help the user to get points in this event. Did everyone suddenly have DPS amnesia? This is not a user end fault but you must understand that there needs to be action from MA. This also is also cannot be deemed not exploitable. I understand that there is no eco advantage but there is DPS advantage none the less. Terminator breaks no rules. Lending out the Terminator during previous Mayhem events technically break no rules.

Please do not claim that this extra DPS acts as a compensation for previous high enhancer breakage.

The only thing we can look at a ModMerc users is that if they noticed this bug, they should have filed a support case.

Joda:
To say that there is no real advantage is an understatement. 950k damage/hour is insane as to it should only be in the 700k-750k for a T10 MM.

Everyone:
It is your duty to report such exploitable bugs even if it is unintentionally.

I don't expect anyone to incriminate themselves and say they knowing used it. Hard to prove but it also cannot be ignored.
 
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gwit said:
Lorfat, you are so missing the point and you know you are. Its easy - MA has given an unfair advantage. If this was against you, you would be pissed not looking at the wood when the trees are all around you.

to quote TACO

"It does 21% more dps than it should with a normal 30% reload buff! wtf"
Click to expand...

Didn't I say the same thing?
 
Can anyone actually confirm this is all true? I will when I am home from Disney :)
 
Lorfat said:
The issue with the 100+ attacks needed to be solved, agreed.
The users of MM (and other weapons suffering from the same problem) should have been compensated (somehow) for the fact that they were not able to use the weapon to its full ability, during the previous event.... snip..
Click to expand...

:confused: Why? Compensated for what? That the gun did not what was never promised?

Things change - i can´t amp my Opalo with CDF4 Amp.. or do i get a compensation for that now?
The MM should have never been "fixed" - they were not broken... If there is a cap at 100 reload, so be it!
 
Bear said:
:confused: Why? Compensated for what? That the gun did not what was never promised?

Things change - i can´t amp my Opalo with CDF4 Amp.. or do i get a compensation for that now?
The MM should have never been "fixed" - they were not broken... If there is a cap at 100 reload, so be it!
Click to expand...
Really? Was there any communication that there was an intentional cap of 100 attacks?
If that cap was intentional and communicated from the start, then I agree with you.
 
Bear said:
:confused: Why? Compensated for what? That the gun did not what was never promised?

Things change - i can´t amp my Opalo with CDF4 Amp.. or do i get a compensation for that now?
The MM should have never been "fixed" - they were not broken... If there is a cap at 100 reload, so be it!
Click to expand...

Where's my compensation for all the times pirates shot me down using the speed bug?

Lorfat said:
Really? Was there any communication that there was an intentional cap of 100 attacks?
If that cap was intentional and communicated from the start, then I agree with you.
Click to expand...

What makes one bug more deserving of compensation than any of the other hundreds of bugs?
 
ZPF said:
What makes one bug more deserving of compensation than any of the other hundreds of bugs?
Click to expand...
Nothing, as long as it costs you incorrectly, you should be compensated! Now, if MA compensates or not... that's another story!
 
practically
i was doing ~650k dmg/hour in halloween mayhem with the 100 spm bug and using buffs most of the time
meaning I was limited to 16% reload buff
now with the fix I am able to do max 24% reload increase (mod ares + neuro a)
which averages in 730k dmg/hour
730/650 ~ 112%
thus i think this thread is pulled from ass like the one on some guns getting more dps by using buffs was
p.s. on merry mayhem spiders i have to fap way less than on the zombies from halloween mayhem
 
girtsn said:
now with the fix I am able to do max 24% reload increase (mod ares + neuro a)
which averages in 730k dmg/hour
Click to expand...

Apparently Joda did 950k dmg/hour (see below). What's the % reload on that?



mg Joda VVV said:
Hello dear forum,
after talk with taco yesterday, i have managed to do test using bl1950 t8 + rage 50 and mod merc +hca204 t10 in ffa5

after 1 hour of shooting with same stats i got results :

bl1950 - 910k damage
mmt10 - 950k damage

like we talked with grave, seems problem is that i do less dps with Bl1950 is gun range that could effect me while tagging mob.

don't see really big advantage , just super big enhancer break with mod merc.

//mg Joda VVV VVV
Click to expand...
 
he probably did not fap at all, used 30% reload, did not shoot the boss less time to switch etc. improvements
i did the same not too stressed way of shooting in both of the events.
i know the best scores were next to 1M dmg/hour already last event when the modmerc was screwed
Lorfat said:
Apparently Joda did 950k dmg/hour (see below). What's the % reload on that?
Click to expand...
 
girtsn said:
he probably did not fap at all, used 30% reload, did not shoot the boss less time to switch etc. improvements
i did the same not too stressed way of shooting in both of the events.
i know the best scores were next to 1M dmg/hour already last event when the modmerc was screwed
Click to expand...

No matter how hard I try to do the maths, I cannot conceive how it is possible for a MM to do so much dmg/hr... I definitely must be doing something wrong.. :laugh:
 
girtsn said:
he probably did not fap at all, used 30% reload, did not shoot the boss less time to switch etc. improvements
i did the same not too stressed way of shooting in both of the events.
i know the best scores were next to 1M dmg/hour already last event when the modmerc was screwed
Click to expand...

You need more evade.
 
Lorfat said:
No matter how hard I try to do the maths, I cannot conceive how it is possible for a MM to do so much dmg/hr... I definitely must be doing something wrong.. :laugh:
Click to expand...

girtsn said:
he probably did not fap at all, used 30% reload, did not shoot the boss less time to switch etc. improvements
i did the same not too stressed way of shooting in both of the events.
i know the best scores were next to 1M dmg/hour already last event when the modmerc was screwed
Click to expand...

He did shot nonstop without fapping in FFA5

This Thread was made to discuss the 100+ Bug and it ended again in a thread about Mayhem Event (what else)

I bet everyone of u when heared the modmerc was negative bugged during the Halloween event were realy realy realy happy and was laughing their ass of.
Now its exactly diffrent way and this ppl who were laughing b4, start crying now.
But hell who know's if its a feature or a bug? I guess tons of supports sended already and we will know asap.
 
mg Joda VVV said:
Hello dear forum,
after talk with taco yesterday, i have managed to do test using bl1950 t8 + rage 50 and mod merc +hca204 t10 in ffa5

after 1 hour of shooting with same stats i got results :

bl1950 - 910k damage
mmt10 - 950k damage

like we talked with grave, seems problem is that i do less dps with Bl1950 is gun range that could effect me while tagging mob.

don't see really big advantage , just super big enhancer break with mod merc.

//mg Joda VVV VVV
Click to expand...

Pure MM t10 with H204 have 115.37 damage (according to Entropedia, I guess that takes into account unbuffed CHA) and 86 a/m.
That gives 115.37 * 86 / 60 = 165.3636667 dps

Assuming no 100 AS limit and max AS buff of 30% (107.9 a/m on MM), dps would be:
115.37 * 86 *1.3 / 60 = 214.9727667 dps
Meaning that during 1h instance of non stop shooting t10 MM would deal 773901.96 damage.
Assuming that during first 30 seconds there are no mobs (not done MM this year yet as on holidays, but it was like that in last HM instances), non stop shooting of 59.5 minutes would result in 767452.78 damage dealt (767k)

Ofcourse this calculation does not take into account any extra Crit chance and Crit damage as we do not know any details about Joda's buffs.
However there is big discrepancy between theoretical 767k dmg vs 950k measured and I'm not sure if crit would cover difference.

This is simplified number crunching, but it indicates that indeed extra damage dealt (compensating lower attack speed, capped at 100) is not applied correctly and even after taking into account extra crit dmg there would be an advantage for MM (and other fast weapons) users.


Again this is a quick approximation and proper tests should be done.
 
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girtsn said:
practically
i was doing ~650k dmg/hour in halloween mayhem with the 100 spm bug and using buffs most of the time
meaning I was limited to 16% reload buff
now with the fix I am able to do max 24% reload increase (mod ares + neuro a)
which averages in 730k dmg/hour
730/650 ~ 112%
thus i think this thread is pulled from ass like the one on some guns getting more dps by using buffs was
p.s. on merry mayhem spiders i have to fap way less than on the zombies from halloween mayhem
Click to expand...

So you are comparing diff mobs with diff hunters skills and such, you show an 8% reload increase and ignore the higher 12% higher dps you got. That is 4% magical increase?

Now test it properly, and you will see it is over 20% when used right.


And you still call BS?

BTW the other thread was right, I just couldn't explain why it was happening without breaking MA's rules.

You guys can hate me all you want. But turning a blind eye to shit you know is happening is just gross.
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
Pure MM t10 with H204 have 115.37 damage (according to Entropedia, I guess that takes into account unbuffed CHA) and 86 a/m.
That gives 115.37 * 86 / 60 = 165.3636667 dps

Assuming no 100 AS limit and max AS buff of 30% (107.9 a/m on MM), dps would be:
115.37 * 86 *1.3 / 60 = 214.9727667 dps
Meaning that during 1h instance of non stop shooting t10 MM would deal 773901.96 damage.
Assuming that during first 30 seconds there are no mobs (not done MM this year yet as on holidays, but it was like that in last HM instances), non stop shooting of 59.5 minutes would result in 767452.78 damage dealt (767k)

Ofcourse this calculation does not take into account any extra Crit chance and Crit damage as we do not know any details about Joda's buffs.
However there is big discrepancy between theoretical 767k dmg vs 950k measured and I'm not sure if crit would cover difference.

This is simplified number crunching, but it indicates that indeed extra damage dealt (compensating lower attack speed, capped at 100) is not applied correctly and even after taking into account extra crit dmg there would be an advantage for MM (and other fast weapons) users.


Again this is a quick approximation and proper tests should be done.
Click to expand...


The difference is over 30% and not just 20%. crit chance and crit dmg increase with all available buffs and item effects can only cover roughly 10% increase assuming you own all the fancy gears and using all types of crit buffs.

The modmerc can easily break 1million dmg/hour if VVV had hunted without needing to fap.
 
As said there is no magic I have to fap way less in this event as of the dmg types of supremacy vs these mobs. And losing dps on calling the mobs from far. Just saying my numbers don't support your claims. And so far there was no completely valid test indeed (modmerc 30% buff no fapping measured avg dmg on a hour or more vs same without buffs)
so far, 2 people have done a field test, joda and me. and neither of them support the claim of this thread
Sunsout Gunsout said:
So you are comparing diff mobs with diff hunters skills and such, you show an 8% reload increase and ignore the higher 12% higher dps you got. That is 4% magical increase?
Click to expand...
 
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Lorfat said:
Really? Was there any communication that there was an intentional cap of 100 attacks?
If that cap was intentional and communicated from the start, then I agree with you.
Click to expand...

No, and there were no comunication that anything can above 100 uses/min either.

But again:
It was possible to amp any gun as much as you like - there was no penalty.
MA: New update, new stuff & no more unlimited amping!
...
.... years later, new stuff, reload buffs...
ModMerc (very old gun) can not be buffed above 100 attacts/min...

Now why is there a fix needed? It was never intended to go over 100 - else MA would not have needed such a quirky "fix".
There is only one reason: High turnover and high MU with ModMerc. Its a nice present from MA. Thats it.

IF that is not the reason, i really want compenstation for the skill cap VU, the skill gain nerfs, the gun nerfs..... yeh MA "fix" that stuff too :silly2:
 
Interesting times

I never ever thought I'd see the day when anyone would complain MA gives too much damages. Thank all of you for being so vigilant and watching out for the EU. You are all true heroes, and should hop off the nearest cliff, because all true heroes aren't living.

Except for maybe Vlad.... Putin, not the impaler one, uhoh I messed that up.......
 
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after quite some reverse engineering based on data in this thread and measurements of my own, seems close approximation of the formula for calculating ammo consumption (and also max dmg) increase is (though based on only 3 measurements):
x = ammo consumption increase when reaching 99+ uses, e.g. 1.3156 or 131.56%
b = reload increase buffs / 100, e.g. 0.24
precondition - must reach 99+ reloads per minute, otherwise x = 1
x=1/(1-b)

quote from thread was 3071 ammo went to 3941 with 22% buffs, x = 3941 / 3071 = 1.2833
calculation x = 1 / (1 - 0.22) = 1.2821

quote from thread was 1500 ammo went to 2142 with 30% buffs, x = 2142 / 1500 = 1.4280
calculation x = 1 / (1 - 0.3) = 1.4286

my own measurement 3374 ammo went to 4439 with 24% buffs, x = 4439 / 3374 = 1.3156
calculation x = 1 / (1 - 0.24) = 1.3158
Click to expand...
some other observations:
  • on modmerc up until at least 14% buffs, ammo consumption remains static (as unbuffed)
  • max dmg increase observed in field with 24% buff was proportional to ammo increase, 218.4 / 166 = 1.3157
could it be the reload speed increase is cancelled as soon as 99+ is reached? that is what would make some sense. if someone could test this would be appreciated, had no time today besides this project.
 
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Two days and a miniVU/patch later...

...and this topic seems to have died completely after girtsns last post.

Nothing in the official notes (were there even any?) regarding the repair of this problem, nor anything confirming or debunking the analysis as above by girtsn. From MA such an incommunicado doesn't surprise me, but from the PCF community...

Is it safe to say that everything was correct after all? That we for a while there we convinced that a massive #$%^-up had been made but that it turns out to be not the case...

Or - alternatively - is the issue still there but has everyone simply stopped caring or just been totally into MM/Xmas/holiday period/whatever? And meanwhile MA is just being their usual communicative selves?

As much as I'd like to contribute, I cannot test anything or say anything meaningful for lack of gear (and probably skills as well), but I am certainly interested in the discussion around and outcome of this!
 
IvoL said:
...and this topic seems to have died completely after girtsns last post.

Nothing in the official notes (were there even any?) regarding the repair of this problem, nor anything confirming or debunking the analysis as above by girtsn. From MA such an incommunicado doesn't surprise me, but from the PCF community...

Is it safe to say that everything was correct after all? That we for a while there we convinced that a massive #$%^-up had been made but that it turns out to be not the case...

Or - alternatively - is the issue still there but has everyone simply stopped caring or just been totally into MM/Xmas/holiday period/whatever? And meanwhile MA is just being their usual communicative selves?

As much as I'd like to contribute, I cannot test anything or say anything meaningful for lack of gear (and probably skills as well), but I am certainly interested in the discussion around and outcome of this!
Click to expand...

The issue is still there...busy with holidays.

TY girts for taking some time to do more tests

I still have not received a response from MA either.

I am sure they are busy too.

Trust me though, this issue will not die down :)

And to all MA players, even the ones that hate me...Have a wonderful and safe Holiday, and may you and your loved ones enjoy the time you spend together! Merry X-mas! :swoon:
 
jak said:
Short test with my Imp SEB 7 just to help a little. (100 Attacks/Min.)

Imp Seb7 + Melee Amp IV (5 damage enhancer slots filled)
I buffed to 20% reload (imp ares + Neurostim-X)
New decay = over 29.1 pecs per use. Old Decay = 23.344
new damage = low 29.7 - high 103.7 tracker average (I'm not maxed) 63.98 (500+ uses)
Old damage = low 22.5 - high 63.0 (Entropedia info) avarage 48.16

Just from "feel" of using weapon the DPS goes up a lot, and cost to use goes up as well. It feels like it is costing more to use (Less eco) but that could just be from overkill as it does more damage.

So, this weapon is definitely NOT more eco or getting more damage than cost. If anything it is costing MORE now as MA stretches out the damage range beyond the use cost making it less eco. :(:mad:
Click to expand...

Here is a sample of imbalance that was overlooked.

New Damage 103.7 (max) from Old Damage 63.0 (Max)
That's 64.6% more with just 20% faster reload. We all know IMP SEB7 has 100 attack/min. Safe to say that you automatically gain 64.6% no matter what faster reload % as long as the base attack speed surpasses 100 attacks/min. I don't see IMP SEB7 correcting itself with lowered attack speed, so this 64.6% is static.

ModMerc also gains 64.6% more DPS from its original but only needs 17% faster reload to break 100/min.

Can someone double check this out?
 
Piron PBP-17 (L)

Base:

85 attacks per minute

25.0 max damage

+

Ares ring (L) 4% reload
Thori helm 5% reload
Neuro-A pill 14% reload

total +23% reload

=

104.55 attacks per minute

test:

99/100 attacks per minute effective

max damage 32.4 (+29.6%)
min damage 16.3

---

104.55 apm @ 25 dam = 43.56 max dps (what it should be)

100 apm @ 32.4 dam = 54 max dps (what it is)

~24% more dmg/sec than there should be.
---

This appears to be a massive fuckup.
 
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Xen said:
Piron PBP-17 (L)

Base:

85 attacks per minute

25.0 max damage

+

Ares ring (L) 4% reload
Thori helm 5% reload
Neuro-A pill 14% reload

total +23% reload

=

104.55 attacks per minute

test:

99/100 attacks per minute effective

max damage 32.4 (+29.6%)

---

104.55 apm @ 25 dam = 43.56 max dps (what it should be)

100 apm @ 32.4 dam = 54 max dps (what it is)

24% more dmg/sec than there should be.
---

This appears to be a massive fuckup.
Click to expand...


No worries, im sure they are on to it and it will be fixes ASAP (MM 2017) :silly2:

Cheers
 
silas said:
No worries, im sure they are on to it and it will be fixes ASAP (MM 2017) :silly2:

Cheers
Click to expand...

Merry Mod Merc Mayhem guys!!!
 
pcf.jpg
 
Got a reply to my support case by Ulf, the usual "we will forward blah blah".
 
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