Call for disciplinary action on the part of all UA cheaters during this years Merry Mayhem.

Criticial thinking is being done. Obviously there was a loophole present. That enough people used it or it was used often enough to significantly impact others finances tells me that there's a significant portion of people who have a problem with ethics, and who at the very least, cannot be trusted.

So tell me why it makes sense to debate terminology and interpretation of events with a community that is already suspect to begin with.

Why would I trust a liar to tell me the truth?

Wow right over your <removed> head...

MA made up the lie about exploiters so you blame the imaginary exploiters and not MA. It's done all the time by governments to idiotic sheep like you who believe it.

Go read the wiki link he posted...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(novel)

MA doesn't want to to blame them so they are making imaginary enemies for you to blame, and you're falling right for it like the sheep they know you are.
 
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So basically, when some players found an exploit, MindArk decided to impact CLDs owners that have nothing to do with it !

How unfair it is, It is not like CLDs owners were responsible !

So it is Mindark fault but it is CLDs owners who were impacted.

To be fair, the Calypso planets share of the revenue is split 50/50 between the planet-owner (MA) and the CLD owners, so MA takes half the cost of the exploit, the CLD owners the second half.
 
How unfair it is, It is not like CLDs owners were responsible !

Of course they are. Do you not understand how company shares work?

CLD owners are of course not the cause but they are still responsible for paying for the mistakes of the company they have quasi-ownership of, though their liability is limited to the dividends payed out to them.

This is stock ownership 101. The company you have stock in messes up, your dividends get cut and/or your stock price falls.
 
ALL YOU WILL GET:

<removed> let me say this:

Case 1:

It will be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for MA to catch anyone that used old alt or friends accounts and traded them points to cash in. A normal IP has no more than 2-3 users generally, but even if someones "x-girlfriend" logged in and got the bonus it will be impossible for MA to prove it wasn't the x-girlfriend.

Most of the players would have only used 1-3 accounts they would have access too. MA won't be able to do anything in these situations...UNLESS a player have 5-10-15-20 alts ALREADY created on that IP AND was trading points to all of them...and not just 1 or 2...once it reaches that level, and they were all getting traded points, it will be easy to determine their guilt.

But these people will be very rare...there just weren't enough stars to go around for 10k points to every one of an auction sellers alt list. And if it was only 1-2 alts on an IP, MA can't prove it wasn't other family members or friends.

So there is a major dilemna here, and very little will be able to be recovered in this case.


Case 2:

Those people that A) made a new account on their IP AFTER event had started AND B) Traded that account MM stars...it can be presumed these people are guilty as hell. How many of these there were, we do not know. If a person only did it once or twice, MA probably will even ignore that, or at worst get a soft temp ban.

That leaves those that made 3-5-10 or more accounts AFTER the event started, AND traded them points. If they stopped when MA announced this was a no-no, it will likely be a tougher temp ban. Little recourse will be available to CLD holders here because of this too.

However, anyone who CONTINUED to make alts AFTER MA released the statement AND traded them points, these people are guilty without a doubt, and should have their accounts wiped. This will ONLY be less than a dozen of the hard-core scammers, and there will not be shit on those accounts anyways.

In any event, the amount they can try to get back in Case 2 is peanuts compared to what they will never get back in Case 1.

So in conclusion, you CLD holders will NEVER get shit back, and if you do, it will be very small.

It is simply impossible for MA to accurately accuse players of exploiting, because if the x-gf really does exist, even ONE :censored: time, then they will :censored: themselves by losing the trust of ALL the other depositors (once the shit hits the forum-fan). And the ones they WILL be able to catch won't amount to pennies on the dollar.

So in the end CLD owners will have to suck it up and realize it was just a mistake by MA, and their little virtual pieces of paper don't give them any rights and certainly never guaranteed them payouts in situations like these.

AT BEST, MA is figuring out a way to pay the remaining bonuses without affecting the CLD's too much when they do, thereby pacifying the CLD holders a little bit. It is all anyone can hope for. Loot sucked balls for 7 days now...maybe that IS what is happening :)
 
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Criticial thinking is being done. Obviously there was a loophole present. That enough people used it or it was used often enough to significantly impact others finances tells me that there's a significant portion of people who have a problem with ethics, and who at the very least, cannot be trusted.

So tell me why it makes sense to debate terminology and interpretation of events with a community that is already suspect to begin with.

Why would I trust a liar to tell me the truth?

To give an example "weapons of mass destruction"; afterwards there doesn't seem to be any of those, but a whole country is ravished by it. This is just one example. Lets just wipe it of as a debate of terminology afterwards.
Open your eyes. MA/PC have fucked up, CLD holders lost a tiny bit. It's not the end of the world nor Entropia.
And true point, a significant portion of the player-base can be trusted as much as gamblers can; go figure...
 
So in the end CLD owners will have to suck it up and realize it was just a mistake by MA, and their little virtual pieces of paper don't give them any rights and certainly never guaranteed them payouts in situations like these.

Couldn't agree more!


And to the OP
I own CLDs too, and I know that they pay a share of the profits... if there are no profits because of someones "less than wise" decisions, then CLD will not payout.
Be happy that you dont have to pay them, in times when there is a loss!
If you didnt make 20 ped with your CLD, MA lost a shit ton of Ped and they are not happy either, but you live and learn


And by the way, IF there was any exploit, and someone took UA when they shouldn't... Remember ALL TRADES ARE FINAL
 
Couldn't agree more!


And to the OP
I own CLDs too, and I know that they pay a share of the profits... if there are no profits because of someones "less than wise" decisions, then CLD will not payout.
Be happy that you dont have to pay them, in times when there is a loss!
If you didnt make 20 ped with your CLD, MA lost a shit ton of Ped and they are not happy either, but you live and learn


And by the way, IF there was any exploit, and someone took UA when they shouldn't... Remember ALL TRADES ARE FINAL

funny shit! :lolup:
 
Case 1:

It will be nearly IMPOSSIBLE for MA to catch anyone that used old alt or friends accounts and traded them points to cash in. A normal IP has no more than 2-3 users generally, but even if someones "x-girlfriend" logged in and got the bonus it will be impossible for MA to prove it wasn't the x-girlfriend.

MA doesn't have to prove it wasn't the ex-girlfriend, they can lock the account and ask for identification to prove you are the owner of the account to unlock. If your ex provides her info you are good, if not, then the account is locked.
 
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every body has been saying that ma made cld owners pay for the exploiters gain.. but,

ma probably did not "force" the cld owners to pay for the exploiters gain, I believe this is automatically done as part of the revenue system, when caly makes money or lose money , the cld payouts are subject to changed, if the payout was 2 ped, that means profits sustain a huge hit but still a gain, only when it goes into negative, then there is a loss.. or no payouts..

so these people who keep saying ma made cld owners pay for exploiter's gain is NOT ACCURATE at all. its part of the system. quit blaming MA, I will assume its entirely automated and when a dip in revenue occurs, a red flag appears to notify there is something wrong with the revenue system and thus ma will begin to investigate where the funds went to..

where as, the system has a loop hole and allowed for exploits, this is design flaw, I will agree with you if ma is to be blame. but lets face it, ma history, we know shit happens, we just need to wait for them to fix the shit.

as for players who exploit, I agree with a few of you guys, you cannot blame some of the exploiters either, becos allowed ffa stars trading means anyone can buy and submit for ua bonus, to what extend this cause revenue to drop we don't know. in fact from logical understanding, it shouldn't affect at all unless the rewards is better then the cost to get them, since ffa stars is only dropped from mobs and u have to kill them, think of it as hired guns.

medics can get a bonus without having to hunt, but you cannot say they are exploiters...

a few mentions of new accounts , still I find this amusing, UA is not tradable, so the user still has to spend it, if new accts were made for this purpose, those accounts still have to be subjected to cycling the ua... we know how tedious that process can be.

I'm pretty sure there is some other method of exploits other then new acct creation?


btw I bought most of my ffa ... and in solo ... it took me 29 hours to gather 10 k... I suck I know
but I'm mid range already... that's means if the scenario of exploit is that of traded FFAs to new users or other users solely for ua bonus, it has to come from ubers who are able to gather 10 k stars in significantly less time.. that means to say.. only ubers are capable of doing this exploits... then again would they risk their accounts doing so ? hence, I would presume its unintentional either..


then if u think about it, if u found a smart way to earn ped / bonus .. and no one said it is an exploit at the very beginning, can you call it an exploit ? honestly, would you say,

"oh dear this exchange rate is too good, I should not partake it bcos it might be an exploit ?" ,

"oh dear, ma is giving me too much ua for my work, I must not accept it I better report it ?"

WHO DA FUQ in the right mind does that ? if every one is making ped then everyone is exploiting in such a scenario ? it either players vs system/ma or player vs player in terms of economic flow...

all in all , the exploit has to be a fault in the system that allowed some players, again, intentionally or not, knowledgeable or not (it really hard to define nowadays), to overly take advantage of a bonus situation.

the problem as I mentioned previously is communication, when such a fault is discovered it must be sufficiently revealed and / suspended, and then rectify, thus there would be no chance for a person to say I didn't know about it and continued to do it .. ma never discuss these things efficiently and left it all to guess work.. then players who did or did not partake starts pointing fingers at each other.. SRSLY WTF ?
 
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MA doesn't have to prove it wasn't the ex-girlfriend, they can lock the account and ask for identification to prove you are the owner of the account to unlock. If your ex provides her info you are good, if not, then the account is locked.

Yes but I would guess that 70-80% of all IP's have more than one account log in at it. Hell, the only way this game grows is from word of mouth and letting our friends and family try it out...yes most of those are valid accounts, but MA going after EVERY one that got points and requesting proof seems WAY to far out of line with how lax they typically are. I do hope they do it though.
 
Yes but I would guess that 70-80% of all IP's have more than one account log in at it. Hell, the only way this game grows is from word of mouth and letting our friends and family try it out...yes most of those are valid accounts, but MA going after EVERY one that got points and requesting proof seems WAY to far out of line with how lax they typically are. I do hope they do it though.

I'm not expecting them to do anything when there are two accounts but there was a situation in the past with the newbie area where people made 10+ account to get free stuff and trade it. MA locked those accounts and I expect they will do the same with people that made many, many alts. I agree with Oxide that because it's UA it won't be quite as bad, but since oyu can mine with UA now it doesn't matter too much if you're a level 1 player.
 
Magyar...

Actually its your logic that is flawed.

I am entitled to a share of planet partner revenue. That revenue was noted by the parent company to have been reduced due to an exploit by players.

An exploit is the act of knowingly using a flaw in the system towards one's own advantage.

This exploit was paid for out of Planet Partner revenue.

So logically it goes like this

If revenue from planet partner pays CLD revenue
and CLD revenue was reduced due to exploit
and an exploit is defined as knowingly using a flaw in the system towards ones own advantage
and exploits that affect the economic well being of the universe are against the EULA
and such actions against the EULA are bannable offenses
and CLD investors are players
then any reduction of planet partner revenue that affects CLD equals something another player pays for thus having effect on the financial well being of the universe, and in this instance this was done through using a flaw in the system, which ultimately makes it not a valid financial transaction, not a trade, and therefore a punishable offense according to the EULA

Anything else?

...you must realize you are arguing with people with financial interest in other planets...potentially interested in negative outcomes on Calypso...so muting your expectation of what to expect from some of the commenters on here is reasonable...exploiters should be punished...and that money should be returned in as reasonable a fashion to CLD holders which have an expectation based on invested funds of a return of money that was interrupted due to cheating behavior...an exploit by definition is against TOU...and thus is cheating...cheating is punishable in a manner reasonably within what Magyar has suggested. Period. The rest sound like MA or exploiter apologists and that begs a different question.

Brick
 
...you must realize you are arguing with people with financial interest in other planets...potentially interested in negative outcomes on Calypso...so muting your expectation of what to expect from some of the commenters on here is reasonable...exploiters should be punished...and that money should be returned in as reasonable a fashion to CLD holders which have an expectation based on invested funds of a return of money that was interrupted due to cheating behavior...an exploit by definition is against TOU...and thus is cheating...cheating is punishable in a manner reasonably within what Magyar has suggested. Period. The rest sound like MA or exploiter apologists and that begs a different question.

Brick

I think u think too much, I own aud and clds .... and I'm sure a lot of people are the same ... why would anyone want to condem a single planet ? it doesn't make sense.
 
IMO the call for action should be made to the management in charge of the very design of the event.

It is unprofessional and quite offensive to have them blanket slam the customer base as cheating the very system they gave the players.

It sounds nice to see that they are going to investigate, but um what will they investigate?

The "exploit" is nothing more than the ability for every avatar, active or not, to get discounted ammo.

This "Exploit" is still ongoing as people buy discounted points but the millions.

This Exploit has alot more to do with MA's lack of EULA enforcement (single account), and a very disruptive event design, than anything else.

Good luck with them ever turning this FFA back on.

I cannot possibly see how they will not lose a massive amount of cash the moment they do, as hundreds more redeem 2.5k ammo all at once (purchased at dirt cheap rates over last few weeks). This is the biggest problem with the design....it isn't fixed unless its off.
 
It is unprofessional and quite offensive to have them blanket slam the customer base as cheating the very system they gave the players.
...
I cannot possibly see how they will not lose a massive amount of cash the moment they do, as hundreds more redeem 2.5k ammo all at once (purchased at dirt cheap rates over last few weeks). This is the biggest problem with the design....it isn't fixed unless its off.

Yes to 1st part!
On the 2nd part, it has already been hinted at that maybe only directly looted stars by each player will be eligable for the ammo bonus and that traded stars will only count as part of the event score.
IF this happens, AND without MA having actually stated this many many days ago, it will be the biggest screwing of players I have seen in a long time by MA.

On the other hand, how innocent are players still buying stars on the market in the hope that they can be used to get the bonus ammo? Well, I can imagine that a lot of them who don't read forums much will be - and they would be MIGHTILY pissed off if isn't allowed. Take the case of someone who is most of the way, but won't finish FFA at 10k points, and buys stars on the market in good faith at a rate that should reward both seller and buyer. THEN they are informed that this was 'never an intended use of stars', so sorry, no final bonus. I am an owner of some CLDs, so it would appear that I am 'involved' in this..... but I would say that this would be a massive MA fail, not a customer/player fail.

It's not only about mistakes being made, but about how a company tries to find a solution AND avoid further pissing reasonable people off. Cyrene found a solution with its mission armour reward, for example, and sometimes there have been goodwill gestures elsewhere too.
As this post is very much about the future..... that future can still be decided... let's hope ;)
 
Thanks for your constructive input. ^^

Ffa bonuses are back on. They addressed whatever they felt they needed to address, if there was much at all in terms of cheating. Just speculation, as always.

Carry on.
 
Not the exploiters fault. MA fucked up. All it is.
 
So, anyone still think after this weeks payout that there's not a problem?

MA: Punish the cheaters. It is wrong to force those who did not cheat to subsidize those who did.
 
So, anyone still think after this weeks payout that there were exploiters and it wasn't just MA being bad at math? :lolup:


I managed to purchase ~5k points for 0.15 to 0.20 ped a point very easily this last week. I know I was not anywhere near the only one to do so.
 
Can those who exempted themselves from partaking in Merry Mayhem 2015 at all (be it Solo or FFA) be given an "exemplary award"?

Why?

They couldn't be arsed enough to take advantage of this UA fiasco, of course. :lolup:
 
Didnt read all yet but to all that complain about MA taking
MA isnt taking anything
this should motivate people to report exploits and exploiters as i see this as a start of punishment for people that abuse the system
 
Didnt read all yet but to all that complain about MA taking
MA isnt taking anything
this should motivate people to report exploits and exploiters as i see this as a start of punishment for people that abuse the system

Unfortunately its not. It would be punishment if only they were punished. However people who didnt abuse the system were also punished, so basically the non abusers paid for the abusers to get their prizes.

I didnt even log on for Merry Mayhem. I had my own real life obligations this holiday season and EU was not on my radar. Yet I've now had to pay 3 separate times for the actions of people like <removed> Svena above who boldly admits to screwing others over. How many more times will I cut a check so that this <replaced: player> can strut around unpunished by MindArk for basically stealing from other players?
 
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Unfortunately its not. It would be punishment if only they were punished. However people who didnt abuse the system were also punished, so basically the non abusers paid for the abusers to get their prizes.

Sounds like our income tax system :laugh:
 
(...)
I didnt even log on for Merry Mayhem. I had my own real life obligations this holiday season and EU was not on my radar. Yet I've now had to pay 3 separate times for the actions of people like <removed> Svena above who boldly admits to screwing others over. How many more times will I cut a check so that this <replaced: player> can strut around unpunished by MindArk for basically stealing from other players?

Huh? :scratch2:

Where Svena said he abused the system in any way? Am i missing something here?
Buying points from others just to turn in 10k points is/was in NO way against rules.

Only creating alternative avatars and handing them poitns to turn in for extra uni amo is.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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Huh? :scratch2:

Where Svena said he abused the system in any way? Am i missing something here?
Buying points from others just to turn in 10k points is/was in NO way against rules.

Only creating alternative avatars and handing them poitns to turn in for extra uni amo is.

Falagor
:bandit:

I dont know the mechanics of what went on with this cheat and the finer points of it. There may be some sort of dividing line between buying the stars and simply trading them in, but I'm not sure I see it completely, since at the end of the game you're still buying what is most likely an illegally obtained item knowing full well that such an item was obtained through use of an exploit. It seems very clear that this person knew about this, and chose to ignore it. That's a problem, since its basically money laundering. If they did not, and I'm reading too much into it, I apologize.

I was told this exploit existed early on, and made my choice to continue to prioritize my real life stuff rather than get involved with this cheat on any level. I had the time, but did not have the inclination. Word did spread very fast. I was told on Facebook that it existed. I'm sure I am not a special snowflake, in that regard.
 
Can those who exempted themselves from partaking in Merry Mayhem 2015 at all (be it Solo or FFA) be given an "exemplary award"?

Why?

They couldn't be arsed enough to take advantage of this UA fiasco, of course. :lolup:

I almost fit the bill there, except I wouldn't choose the word arsed. But I did wonder if payouts were going to take another massive hit after people started handing in again.
I wasn't on Caly - and I guess I stuck to my principles in not returning. That is not, however, a criticism of anyone else: just my personal decision of annoyance!

Can we get back to something OVER 3 peds average a week please MA, or have we still got the rewards to 'pay for'?
 
I dont know the mechanics of what went on with this cheat and the finer points of it. There may be some sort of dividing line between buying the stars and simply trading them in, but I'm not sure I see it completely, since at the end of the game you're still buying what is most likely an illegally obtained item knowing full well that such an item was obtained through use of an exploit. It seems very clear that this person knew about this, and chose to ignore it. That's a problem, since its basically money laundering. If they did not, and I'm reading too much into it, I apologize.

I was told this exploit existed early on, and made my choice to continue to prioritize my real life stuff rather than get involved with this cheat on any level. I had the time, but did not have the inclination. Word did spread very fast. I was told on Facebook that it existed. I'm sure I am not a special snowflake, in that regard.

Well thats the problem:
only ones who "could" (and should) get punished are those who created alternative avatars for additional turn ins.

There is no other exploit happening.

MA did crapy job with calulating the drop rate of FFA stars versus the rewards they give - THIS is the main reason why CLD payouts were down. The drop rate was fixed after a week or two but there could nothing be done with those FFA stars that alrady droped.
I mean if suddenly one dev accidenlty puts 1000 mod faps in lootpool and there will be 1000 lucky people huning at that moment and get them all - there is nothing that can be done anymore. Items will stay ingame and influence markup on existing mod faps a lot already.

They stated that some exploit happened but its not true entirely. Sure - there most likely were people creating extra accounts but even if we had 100% honest community the CLD payouts would be still down a lot.

So if you are looking someone to blame for low CLD payouts i would say do this:
- 90% blame MA for stupidity and lack of math skills
- 10% blame alt account creators
- 0% blame any other player who looted or bought any FFA poitns and turned them in for uni amo.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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