Call for disciplinary action on the part of all UA cheaters during this years Merry Mayhem.

Not one of the finest moments over the years of Merry Mayhem i have to say, and even though has not affected me i can understand cld owners not being happy (didn't participate in MM except kill few mobs and heal, don't own cld's).

Mindark have said in statement they will investigate all cases where loophole/exploit was used and take appropriate action. Is in MA's court what they do, how they seperate honest error from farming loophole.


Just wait and see consequences i guess, but in past MA have been roasted for not taking action on forums, guess will be the same if they do :laugh:.

Wait and see what happens before poking the can of worms.

all the best Dibbler
 
Im just thinking.. if this exploit caused the leak of a week of CLD payout, AND some.. This must be a huge leak! Did anyone calc how many peds got lost every hour between the start of the event and the stop of bonus?
 
I don't care much about the missed payout, because it's just one week so it's not much money, but I so tired of players with bad moral that take every chance to exploit the system.

If it's obvious they have done an exploit, warn them, take their profit and fine them an additional 100 PED and put a temporary ban for a month. If they do a second serious obvious exploit, just ban the evil-doers for good. Other exploits that are not obvious or less serious should have kind of smaller warning and/or fine, because some "exploits" can be misunderstandings or done in good-faith. And be harder on the use of multiple avatars, that is also an benefit players should not have.
 
Im just thinking.. if this exploit caused the leak of a week of CLD payout, AND some.. This must be a huge leak! Did anyone calc how many peds got lost every hour between the start of the event and the stop of bonus?

Hmm, I don't have CLD but I imagine you can compare to avg income to see the loss? Then multiply by all deeds to see total?
 
And here i am thinking you were asking for disciplinary actions against some employees of FPC/MA for screwing up the event and not communicating with the playerbase and CLD owners.

I still believe a MA screw-up is way more likely then any so called exploiters. They had a week and a half to do something about the 'exploiters', and judging by the CLD income, they didn't.
 
ma is like a child you have to tell them every time what to doo and not they have no comense

like do it oopp sorry a mistake happen was not my fault the other guy did it
 
For me the interesting take-away is some insight into the CLD revenue mechanism.

I already knew that the PP pays for mission and event rewards at TT value and this affects their net revenue.

I thought I knew that CLD owners collectively received 25% (MA get 50%, PP get other 25%) of Calypso activity based revenue.

Now, based on the MA statement, it appears that mission and event reward costs are deducted from the non-MA portion of the Caly activity revenue before it is further split into PP and CLD allocations.

So CLD owners are paying for 50% of all Caly mission and event rewards.

Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that but perhaps something to keep in mind if you looking for implementation of more missions, or if you are one of the folks who commonly argues against participating in the events for whatever reason.
 
For me the interesting take-away is some insight into the CLD revenue mechanism.

I already knew that the PP pays for mission and event rewards at TT value and this affects their net revenue.

I thought I knew that CLD owners collectively received 25% (MA get 50%, PP get other 25%) of Calypso activity based revenue.

Now, based on the MA statement, it appears that mission and event reward costs are deducted from the non-MA portion of the Caly activity revenue before it is further split into PP and CLD allocations.

So CLD owners are paying for 50% of all Caly mission and event rewards.

Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that but perhaps something to keep in mind if you looking for implementation of more missions, or if you are one of the folks who commonly argues against participating in the events for whatever reason.

That would make sense. It is a Planetary event, not a Universal event.

What I don't get is, given that-

1) CLDs represent a share of the revenue from a business that is completely run other people,
2) CLD owners are given essentially no information about who makes the decisions and what their plans are,

why so many people are butt-hurt and freaked out the first time their payouts take a hit. The truly amazing thing is that it hasn't happened many times before now.

I am curious, however, just how much money they ended up losing to this screwup? If someone could take the normal CLD payout for MM, multiply it by the total number of CLDs, and then double that, we would know the least amount of money that disappeared last month. Of course, it could be more as CLD owners are not actually charged for losses.
 
For me the interesting take-away is some insight into the CLD revenue mechanism.

I already knew that the PP pays for mission and event rewards at TT value and this affects their net revenue.

I thought I knew that CLD owners collectively received 25% (MA get 50%, PP get other 25%) of Calypso activity based revenue.

Now, based on the MA statement, it appears that mission and event reward costs are deducted from the non-MA portion of the Caly activity revenue before it is further split into PP and CLD allocations.

So CLD owners are paying for 50% of all Caly mission and event rewards.

Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that but perhaps something to keep in mind if you looking for implementation of more missions, or if you are one of the folks who commonly argues against participating in the events for whatever reason.

It makes sense when you think about it. If a planet partner is hosting an event, they need to have the funds to pay for it. Naturally these funds would come from their own wallet, that is, unless they find some kind of loophole that allows them to siphon money away from other planet partners. Then they should exploit... ah... I mean take advantage of that while maintaining complete innocence.
 
Im just thinking.. if this exploit caused the leak of a week of CLD payout, AND some.. This must be a huge leak! Did anyone calc how many peds got lost every hour between the start of the event and the stop of bonus?
Well considering that this week payout was around 4.5 PED per deed. You only have to extrapolate 4.5 x 60k = 270K. However since most events at the start have the most activity than towards the ending of it, it is safe to say it could have been 5.5 per deed therefore total is guess/approx 330K ped lost.
 
Since my last post, I found out that CLD payout wasnt zero, it just wasnt executed, so there is a chance that its not so bad as I was thinking in prev post.
 
Well considering that this week payout was around 4.5 PED per deed. You only have to extrapolate 4.5 x 60k = 270K. However since most events at the start have the most activity than towards the ending of it, it is safe to say it could have been 5.5 per deed therefore total is guess/approx 330K ped lost.

Times 2 to also account for Calypso's share. So around $60k?
 
Since my last post, I found out that CLD payout wasnt zero, it just wasnt executed, so there is a chance that its not so bad as I was thinking in prev post.

ROI was between 3 and 4 PED per deed for the weeks leading up to Mayhem, with it erring more towards 3. Mayhem is typically accompanied by a boost in revenue, not a decrease.

10/19/2015 2033.00831.534.1015.59%21.30%Big Ass Bots
10/26/2015 2043.32834.854.0917.26%21.28%Big Ass Bots
11/2/2015 2054.00838.844.0920.78%21.28%Few days Halloween Mayhem
11/9/2015 2064.84843.694.1025.19%21.30%Week of Halloween Mayhem
11/16/2015 2073.45847.134.0917.92%21.28%
11/23/2015 2083.45850.584.0917.93%21.26%
11/30/2015 2093.15853.734.0816.37%21.24%
12/7/2015 2103.44857.174.0817.86%21.23%Robots!!!!!!
12/14/2015 2113.37860.534.0817.52%21.21%Robots!!!!!!
12/21/2015 2122.15862.694.0711.19%21.16%
12/28/2015 2130.00862.694.050.00%21.06%Merry Mayhem 2015
1/4/2016 2144.64867.324.0524.11%21.08%Merry Mayhem 2015
During the first week of this years Mayhem revenue dipped closer to 2. This was explained by MA as due to the exploit.

During the second week of Mayhem there was no payout.

During the third week of Mayhem the payout was 4.64. Now if we account for the previous week, this means that the mean payout for these two weeks is 2.32. This is the same as the payout during the exploit.

Which means it's not as bad as we think. It's worse. If we use the assumption that the payout for the missing week was rolled into the next week, we are looking at net losses being carried over time.

That does not sound too good, does it?
 
...................................
 
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The new Mayhem rules (specifically the removal of the categories) may have discouraged many to not participate this year.

Just my speculation about the 2.15 Ped payout.

When the results are announced, and further official information regarding the exploit & sanctions imposed on some players - it may shed additional light on the missed payout.

Maybe.... but it seems strange that a rule change would result in revenue dropping almost 1/3 of regular non event payouts, too. That number has been relatively consistent.
 
Maybe.... but it seems strange that a rule change would result in revenue dropping almost 1/3 of regular non event payouts, too. That number has been relatively consistent.

But still possible, at least as part of it.

basicly everyone in the old S1 S2 S3, T1 T2 T3 lost all reason to participate in the competition, and these players may have been looking forward to MM and now may feel cheated and therefor rather spend time with their families during the Christmas holidays.

For most the bonuses was the only thing that was of interest, without them the revenue might have been even smaller.

This is a messed up event, taking the best event and making it into a version of all the others and combining that with to much stars in loot (considering the bonuses).

And the abuse should be made clear, now alot of people think that buying stars and turning in for bonus is abuse, it cant be since its part of the rules 1. you can buy points 2. you can turn in points and get bonus prices 3. In FFA there is no minimum time needed to participate. (all anounced by PC/MA). It could however be called an exploit, you are using this word without care for its meaning. If you profit you exploit something (your luck, your very economic gear, your knowledge etc etc)

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/exploit

Not that it really concerns me, i had looted 16k FFA points myself (turned in 10k sold 6k) before they shut it down and I dont own any CLD´s either
 
I suspect a complete screw up rather than any actual cheating like many others have implied

Magyar, while I appreciate your enthusiasm for the game, you really should listen more closely to what older avi's such as xen are trying to say here. They have seen all sorts of screwups and ma double speak before. And quoting ma's posts is not helping your cause in this situation
 
I suspect a complete screw up rather than any actual cheating like many others have implied

Magyar, while I appreciate your enthusiasm for the game, you really should listen more closely to what older avi's such as xen are trying to say here. They have seen all sorts of screwups and ma double speak before. And quoting ma's posts is not helping your cause in this situation

When I am dealing with these experiences MA provides us, I always remember Aridash's signature line that reads, "consider a cockup before a conspiracy" :laugh:
 
This whole "problem" revolves around, not a "exploit", but a complete lack of personal ethics.

My 4 yr old son, as we were walking through a mall in California, saw a $100 dollar bill laying on the floor.

"Daddy - look what someone dropped! Who dropped it? We need to give it back to them."

That is personal integrity. Wasn't his and wanted the actual owner to have it. We told security to have anyone who claimed they lost money to contact me (I gave her my card) and we would return the money.

That $100 bill stayed thumbtacked to our bulletin board for over a year before I finally gave it to my son, who still claimed it wasn't his.

This lack of personal integrity is what plagues this game. Everything from the piece of crap scammers, to the market manipulators to the traders that try to corner the market, to those willing to take advantage od a system that failed to "dot each i and cross each t" (MA called it an "exploit").

Look about you: are any of these lurking in your vicinity? And you might as well look inside you: are you one?

"Ye shall know them by their deeds." and you can.

These are the destroyers of, not only this game, but your life and the lives around you.

Just saying.....
 
This whole "problem" revolves around, not a "exploit", but a complete lack of personal ethics.

My 4 yr old son, as we were walking through a mall in California, saw a $100 dollar bill laying on the floor.

"Daddy - look what someone dropped! Who dropped it? We need to give it back to them."

That is personal integrity. Wasn't his and wanted the actual owner to have it. We told security to have anyone who claimed they lost money to contact me (I gave her my card) and we would return the money.

That $100 bill stayed thumbtacked to our bulletin board for over a year before I finally gave it to my son, who still claimed it wasn't his.

This lack of personal integrity is what plagues this game. Everything from the piece of crap scammers, to the market manipulators to the traders that try to corner the market, to those willing to take advantage od a system that failed to "dot each i and cross each t" (MA called it an "exploit").

Look about you: are any of these lurking in your vicinity? And you might as well look inside you: are you one?

"Ye shall know them by their deeds." and you can.

These are the destroyers of, not only this game, but your life and the lives around you.

Just saying.....

Oh, so that's what happened to the $100 bill I dropped in that California mall I was at years ago.

:rolleyes:
 
"Ye shall know them by their deeds."

Ironically, the 'deeds' are possibly the best thing MA has done for us (and they only did it becasue their favoured option fell through...).

As for this mess, we have plenty to go on from our side, and very little said by MA.
We know that the bonuses (or star drops, however you wish to look at it) were far too good on average, with players getting 2 opportunities for 2500 peds of UA for about 1500 to 2000 tt ped loss each. That is therefore at least 1000 peds of free ammo per player in the MM. Additionally, players who got past their 10k stars in FFA could continue and share profits from stars by selling them to others for them to hand them in....

Given that we have had missions such as the bones for an extra agility point which have tradeable bones too, I see absolutely NOTHING wrong or exploitational about signing up to MM to get the bonuses, no matter how many hour you spend actually doing MM. You don't have to get points yourself, just like the 10k bones.

The FACT that star drops were so imbalanced, means that this alone was a MAJOR screw up by MA. Whether or not there was actually any exploiting remains to be seen, but I personally doubt that it was anything close to as big as MA/Caly's handout by their own errors.

I still also want to know more about the knock-on effect for CLDs. Who actually has been made to take what percentages of the cost of the screw up? Shareholders do have a right to know the rules applying to them, you know, and to look at the audited reports of how the company has been run. As this is a RCE, investments are convertable back into real cash if people so choose.....
 
12/21/2015 2122.15862.694.0711.19%21.16%
12/28/2015 2130.00862.694.050.00%21.06%Merry Mayhem 2015

So lets be generous, and say cld owners should have gotten 4.5 ped/deed for those two weeks. That is 9 ped total. Minus the 2.15 they did get means there is a missing 6.85 ped/deed. Times the 60k deeds and double to account for what caly lost gives us ~822k ped missing or "exploited"

The rewards were 2.5k ped in total, so that means there were about 329 people/alts that "exploited."

That is a tiny number of people.
 
I felt like replying anyway ... but I'm probably stabbing in the dark...

1) revenue loss is part of risk every one who owns a deed has to take
2) ma has no fault if the lowered or no payout due to the system having no profit
3) ma could be the cause for the existence of the exploits
4) no body except a few guesses knew what or how the exploit is done
5) fingers shouldn't be point any one, not yet,
6) exploiters probably did not know it was an exploit
7) I have a few ideas from hearing and from guessing how it might have been done probably not good to say it out here
8) trading of ffa was intended feature
9) giving out UA was probably also an intended feature
10) allowing non-participating users to turn in ffa without hunting may have been a leak, this may or may not hurt economy, but the stars are after all after a hunt and rewarded as loot, basically think of it as a hired hunter.
11) allowing participants to turn in more than they can hunt may have been intended (I know I bought and added to my score)
12) punishment should be given to repeat offenders who knew what the exploits were whom continue to abused it
13) punishment would be unfair for offenders who have no clue what the exploit is, even if they did it unknowingly
14) even if I had participated in the abuse without knowledge of it even being an abused I would be pissed to be punished, revert what was given to me, as a form of punishment, I gladly accept that since I had no clue.
15) the best solution is not to ban unintended abuse as this will definitely hurt the player base and income.
16) the best solution is not exactly punishment either as faults were not fully the player's decision, as in they may not know they did the exploit.
17) the best solution is to revert the bonuses given to those "so called exploiters" so that the actions they intentionally did or unintentionally did to harm the cld payouts is corrected.
18) if a said exploit is not officially discussed, and information officially and specifically, and/or prominently advised or shown and users warned not to do it, then blame or punishment too harshed, such as being banned for life cannot be given. I feel it is unfair because no one knew it is an exploit.
19) example: if I knew that purposely kiting a monster is an exploit and I am doing it constantly after being warned, then yes that is a bannable punishment.
20) if I did what every one was doing, exchanging ffa and selling it or using other peoples ffa to fill my score pool, and it turns out to be THE exploit. then I cannot be punished, because it is only logical what a tradable ffa stars are used for. at best I will gladly accept a revert in the bonus and scores, and my inadvertent losses ( since its not due to my fault or knowledge)
21) that's why it is very important to communicate or put up signs clearly and visibly to condemn an exploit if one is found. that way, if anybody knew it was an exploit and still continue to abused it then they should be banned or harshly punished. in these case, all were ma's words, no specific instructions what not to do. hence if someone still did it, it cannot constitute a bannable offense unless those who did have already been warned officially , like an in-game message etc

I find that the phrase "actions that provide unfair beneficial gains over others is an exploit" to be too vague... it just like saying, oh so you found out how the auctions work and you abuse it to make money, you should be banned... DUH !? isn't that how trading works ? maybe be a bad example here,

what I mean is how "unfair advantage" is classed as ?
so I manage to hunt eco and profit every time, does that mean I am exploiting already ? I know the mob cant reach me I know I can kill it from far away without it ever hitting me, so I gain an unfair advantaged over others who cannot out run it, does that mean I exploited ?

or so you found out that running around a mob so that it cannot outrun you is an exploit, like those unreachable crap that keeps going on intentionally or not, or those proteron who are so bloody slow, sometimes I dun even know if I did an exploit, because as a hunter, you are to avoid damage and to try to stay alive rather the blindly tanking everything, of course intentionally getting the mob stucked between a tree could class as a known exploit so they turn them unreachable... but being able to out run a mob like with hermectic ring, to a point where the mob can never reach you, should not be classed as an exploit. I know it isn't I think, still not sure I mostly just let the mob hit me nowadays :( stupid hunting is best, atleast u know u decay and ma cannot call it an exploit...

there was an article that said if a mob cannot reach you it is an exploit... now I feel sad I must always let the mob hit me :(

and the sewers in rocktropia IS exploiting me... suddenly a bunch of zombies spawn and they rush to you and they becomes unreachable and all u do is take damage and wait will it becomes reachable again .. this is the reverse of exploiting I supposed but ma is always right :(

kiting a mob between two players is an exploit ? I thot it was just smart hunting, tbh I did that a few times and people start pointing fingers .. so now I hunt alone .. its better that way, because group hunts are VERY VERY borderline to exploiting a mob :( I invest a lot In this game I dun want to be banned for no reason, so if kiting
wasn't an exploit. I feel extremely exploited.

because of what appears to be smart hunting seemed to border on exploits .. a lot of ideas to succeed in hunting cannot be used bcos it appears to be an exploit as it seemed to give an advantage over others..

that's means to say if u can accomplish something that others cannot, it is an exploit and you cannot do it or risk being banned, also means you must always lose, you cannot win, if u win, u are exploiting the system,

ps: my points are given in the most neutral way I could think of. no pointing fingers at anyone or myself.

crafting is the best, there is no way to intentionally or unintentionally to abuse to click a construct button and gain advantaged over others.. and even if there is, I cannot be blamed bcos there is ONLY one button to click... unless that button is an exploit :(
 
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I felt like replying anyway ... but I'm probably stabbing in the dark...

1) revenue loss is part of risk every one who owns a deed has to take
2) ma has no fault if the lowered or no payout due to the system having no profit
3) ma could be the cause for the existence of the exploits
4) no body except a few guesses knew what or how the exploit is done
5) fingers shouldn't be point any one, not yet,
6) exploiters probably did not know it was an exploit
7) I have a few ideas from hearing and from guessing how it might have been done probably not good to say it out here
8) trading of ffa was intended feature
9) giving out UA was probably also an intended feature
10) allowing non-participating users to turn in ffa without hunting may have been a leak, this may or may not hurt economy, but the stars are after all after a hunt and rewarded as loot, basically think of it as a hired hunter.
11) allowing participants to turn in more than they can hunt may have been intended (I know I bought and added to my score)
12) punishment should be given to repeat offenders who knew what the exploits were whom continue to abused it
13) punishment would be unfair for offenders who have no clue what the exploit is, even if they did it unknowingly
14) even if I had participated in the abuse without knowledge of it even being an abused I would be pissed to be punished, revert what was given to me, as a form of punishment, I gladly accept that since I had no clue.
15) the best solution is not to ban unintended abuse as this will definitely hurt the player base and income.
16) the best solution is not exactly punishment either as faults were not fully the player's decision, as in they may not know they did the exploit.
17) the best solution is to revert the bonuses given to those "so called exploiters" so that the actions they intentionally did or unintentionally did to harm the cld payouts is corrected.
18) if a said exploit is not officially discussed, and information officially and specifically, and/or prominently advised or shown and users warned not to do it, then blame or punishment too harshed, such as being banned for life cannot be given. I feel it is unfair because no one knew it is an exploit.
19) example: if I knew that purposely kiting a monster is an exploit and I am doing it constantly after being warned, then yes that is a bannable punishment.
20) if I did what every one was doing, exchanging ffa and selling it or using other peoples ffa to fill my score pool, and it turns out to be THE exploit. then I cannot be punished, because it is only logical what a tradable ffa stars are used for. at best I will gladly accept a revert in the bonus and scores, and my inadvertent losses ( since its not due to my fault or knowledge)
21) that's why it is very important to communicate or put up signs clearly and visibly to condemn an exploit if one is found. that way, if anybody knew it was an exploit and still continue to abused it then they should be banned or harshly punished. in these case, all were ma's words, no specific instructions what not to do. hence if someone still did it, it cannot constitute a bannable offense unless those who did have already been warned officially , like an in-game message etc

I find that the phrase "actions that provide unfair beneficial gains over others is an exploit" to be too vague... it just like saying, oh so you found out how the auctions work and you abuse it to make money, you should be banned... DUH !? isn't that how trading works ? maybe be a bad example here,

what I mean is how "unfair advantage" is classed as ?
so I manage to hunt eco and profit every time, does that mean I am exploiting already ? I know the mob cant reach me I know I can kill it from far away without it ever hitting me, so I gain an unfair advantaged over others who cannot out run it, does that mean I exploited ?

or so you found out that running around a mob so that it cannot outrun you is an exploit, like those unreachable crap that keeps going on intentionally or not, or those proteron who are so bloody slow, sometimes I dun even know if I did an exploit, because as a hunter, you are to avoid damage and to try to stay alive rather the blindly tanking everything, of course intentionally getting the mob stucked between a tree could class as a known exploit so they turn them unreachable... but being able to out run a mob like with hermectic ring, to a point where the mob can never reach you, should not be classed as an exploit. I know it isn't I think, still not sure I mostly just let the mob hit me nowadays :( stupid hunting is best, atleast u know u decay and ma cannot call it an exploit...

there was an article that said if a mob cannot reach you it is an exploit... now I feel sad I must always let the mob hit me :(

and the sewers in rocktropia IS exploiting me... suddenly a bunch of zombies spawn and they rush to you and they becomes unreachable and all u do is take damage and wait will it becomes reachable again .. this is the reverse of exploiting I supposed but ma is always right :(

kiting a mob between two players is an exploit ? I thot it was just smart hunting, tbh I did that a few times and people start pointing fingers .. so now I hunt alone .. its better that way, because group hunts are VERY VERY borderline to exploiting a mob :( I invest a lot In this game I dun want to be banned for no reason, so if kiting
wasn't an exploit. I feel extremely exploited.

because of what appears to be smart hunting seemed to border on exploits .. a lot of ideas to succeed in hunting cannot be used bcos it appears to be an exploit as it seemed to give an advantage over others..

that's means to say if u can accomplish something that others cannot, it is an exploit and you cannot do it or risk being banned, also means you must always lose, you cannot win, if u win, u are exploiting the system,

ps: my points are given in the most neutral way I could think of. no pointing fingers at anyone or myself.

crafting is the best, there is no way to intentionally or unintentionally to abuse to click a construct button and gain advantaged over others.. and even if there is, I cannot be blamed bcos there is ONLY one button to click... unless that button is an exploit :(

i think most of the issues stem from a potion of the EU community jumping to baseless accusation, or making up tinfoil hat theories. if your unsure, ask support
 
crafting is the best, there is no way to intentionally or unintentionally to abuse to click a construct button and gain advantaged over others.. and even if there is, I cannot be blamed bcos there is ONLY one button to click... unless that button is an exploit :(

Didn't you just get a crafting ATH? That must have been an exploit! :eyecrazy:
 
I too agree this needs an exemplary punishment.

Given the massive impact on CLD and the statements from MA at some point it must have been obvious to these people that what they were doing was wrong. But they decided to keep on doing it until it was obvious for MA too.

Flawed design, bad planning, you can call all the excuses you want. In the end its a groupd of people abusing the system and that's entirely their own fault and their own massive greed.

I would perma ban them, not joking at all.
 
I know, non of you aint got no time for reading; but still, check this book out first
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(novel)

MA mentions exploiters, before investigating anything (while anyone could see they made in error in prize distribution).
Reaction of some players is to put at stake and burn those imaginary "exploiters".
I just wished people should do some more critical thinking instead of being gullible like that.

Is it so weird to think that 300 players that didn't want to do the same crappy snow white blinding and ultimately boring instance, just bought the stars with a little discount.
I would've prolly bought them at 24pec a piece and saved 100ped if I needed ammo.
 
MA mentions exploiters, before investigating anything (while anyone could see they made in error in prize distribution).
Reaction of some players is to put at stake and burn those imaginary "exploiters".
I just wished people should do some more critical thinking instead of being gullible like that.

Criticial thinking is being done. Obviously there was a loophole present. That enough people used it or it was used often enough to significantly impact others finances tells me that there's a significant portion of people who have a problem with ethics, and who at the very least, cannot be trusted.

So tell me why it makes sense to debate terminology and interpretation of events with a community that is already suspect to begin with.

Why would I trust a liar to tell me the truth?
 
So basically, when some players found an exploit, MindArk decided to impact CLDs owners that have nothing to do with it !

How unfair it is, It is not like CLDs owners were responsible !

So it is Mindark fault but it is CLDs owners who were impacted.

Let be realistic now : when a new exploit is found, CLDs owners will pay the bill ?? it has been done once, why not carrying ??

Like this MindArk is contributing to a massive decrease of the "virtual" value of the CLDs.

And when CLDs are down, they will buy them back ?????

Clever Mindark, :censored: LAME MindArk !
 
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of course CLD's are affected, we get a share of Caly's profits, no profits, no payouts
 
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