Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Achievement: Natural Kill Strike on 66 USD

:laugh: then haw MA maik profit if all maik 66 dolar evry 5 yer? How pay for game? so all kan maik profit with 60 dolar and cash out 10k or more:) So Ma is like a god bank gev mony tow all THX santa Ma :))
 
AlanKromAlan said:
:laugh: then haw MA maik profit if all maik 66 dolar evry 5 yer? How pay for game? so all kan maik profit with 60 dolar and cash out 10k or more:) So Ma is like a god bank gev mony tow all THX santa Ma :))
Click to expand...

Ma profit because the 66USD total player takes money from players like Rick England that don't get the concept. Ofc this isn't for everyone and as stated earlier it can be really booring and it's time consuming but it is not impossible.
 
minim said:
Ma profit because the 66USD total player takes money from players like Rick England that don't get the concept. Ofc this isn't for everyone and as stated earlier it can be really booring and it's time consuming but it is not impossible.
Click to expand...

Hmmm stil dasent bilive? Have ben in game 3 yer son game has kost me about 50 dollar day? MA shod se defrend betwen diposter and fri gamer game nead loot system for the player som losing ped and diposter With out the diposit game dasen work ?
 
AlanKromAlan said:
Hmmm stil dasent bilive? Have ben in game 3 yer son game has kost me about 50 dollar day? MA shod se defrend betwen diposter and fri gamer game nead loot system for the player som losing ped and diposter With out the diposit game dasen work ?
Click to expand...

This is why Una and others can survive :)
 
minim said:
This is why Una and others can survive :)
Click to expand...

Cool then i stop may diposit from tow day and are few more in soc is à big dipositer ? Well se haw game wel going thx for help god tow knaw system working? Gl
 
minim said:
Ma profit because the 66USD total player takes money from players like Rick England that don't get the concept. Ofc this isn't for everyone and as stated earlier it can be really booring and it's time consuming but it is not impossible.
Click to expand...

Don't really know you, but I must say that,....

such ignorance, much wow....


Please read again all of Rick's posts if you have the intention to actually participate in the conversation by joining the debate, not just post what you think you should...

Its stupid of you to think (judge) that people don't understand the concept of markup and that you need to make at least 10% markup on average to break even,...

But - it's even more stupid of you to not understand that for different players the 90% return is reached differently - one gets a hof every 3 months with a TT loot worth a couple of K ped (correction hof - the one which supposedly brings you back to 90% tt return after you loose many K ped receiving 60-80% return.... AND - some players, that (perhaps) have to wait and cycle 3 years to get the "correction hof (maybe 5digit TT loot) to bump you back to 90% return,...

What I think Rick is saying is - we all know that this is how it is suppose to work - but - it doesnt - or - the period one needs to wait to get "the big one" to bump you back to 90% return have gotten longer.


When I started playing, I saw these hofs happen very frequently...then loot changed - SUPPOSEDLY. The returns for ME - for example - stayed the same (I DONT EXPERIENCE SMALLER LOOT RETURN VOLATILITY) - BUT - the game doesn't pay out the HOF which would set me back to 90% return - leaving me at avg. of 70% TT return - thats where things get fucked up!


For me it seems that there are many people who's avatar stayed in the previous "high tt return volatility" system but since the big hofs are now disabled - we can't get the hof to bump us back to 90% return.


This is where the problem lies - maybe it was an error in coding when MA changed the system and it effected certain people for who knows what reason - THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS that most people experience the new loot system (less volatility in TT return) - and there are people, who still have the high TT return volatility but don't get the big TT loot, which could bump the average TT return back to 90%.....
 
Its good to see a lot of you guys have put it together. There loot is close to the same as ours but they get nice HoF's or Items to bump them back up.

If you do just a little history and study on this subject you will see a few things,

Back track some people on forum and match to there trackers

Many of the people here that are saying loot is stable *NOW*, were raging on forum just like us in the past about the loot being bad.

Then Valah they hit a HOF's or ITEM's and then bam they go silent, then do a 180 and praise the loot system.

Like I said from day one, without those HOF's or Item's you would be hitting the depo button or out of game in a short period of time...
 
Always the same answer , your sample is to low , must hunt / craft or mine moore to get even ,

but if ones time is limited or killing 1000 s of mobs to just get 90 % ,it is just plain boring / mindless play .

I used to get along very fine , now its just a tedious task of repetetive play to get some of your peds back , if it wasnt for the cld etc i would loose my shirt off
 
KyrismaStarsong said:
Big grats to the op! I'm still 7 levels away from natural KS so I know how much ped shooting and hunting it takes, depositing since 2009.

I've been reading the debate and I just have one question, for the op or anybody else who has done such things (Manique)(Sidxx). Was there a big 5 digit HoF or uber drop along the way to help you? I ask because it seems to be a difference maker if you can collect 12k+ from the tt or hunt "mark up" in the form of a 30K weapon drop.

It seems like all the people who say it can be done, got the big assist somewhere along the way, if not very early on. The people who doubt don't seem to have ever gotten a nice big MU drop or super loot. This is the piece to the puzzle that a lot of people like Krull or Rick seem to have missed along the way, myself included, and it's not always because we were "out chasing" it, ignoring the concept of mark up along the way.

So, big drop to help, or was it really just the right size stack sold at optimum mark up day in and day out all along the way?

Again big grats, quite an achievement either way.
Click to expand...
Sadly this post is becoming staining and not being so much of an achievement thread anymore.
As for me yes, i did hit HoFs along my panth, but not given away at my first few days, depending on your own loot swings, you hit Hofs more often or not.

I got few friends that are WAY above my lvl and they hardly ever hit a decent hof, and possibly never a 5 digit, and yet they do quite well.

I'd strongly advise for people that just hear stuff of others "Oh avg loot is 90% tt" and stuff of that sort... don't take it for granted... whatever it may be (i will let you find out if you put effort into tracking and figure what is actually returned or not in all diferent professions), you should track your own and sort it out for your own, overall i beleive most players end up having the same having the small fluctuation over a large cycle depending on your profession/skills

A lot i've learnt by reading and scavenging some data here and there and mostly, by own experience, which you should take close notes or experiment, a lot you learn by trial,
Mostly, EU is dynamic, there's a constant change, which you got to embrance, you will need to change for the game, not the other way around, and thats where a lot of players get stuck at times, and where you see the breaking point for some and the return of some others / new ones coming.
 
RickEngland said:
I take exception to your comment.

I have congratulated him, I'm happy for his success, I've stated that many times in this thread.
I simply stating that the thread deserves debate,

Yet since you and minim want to go down the path of attacking me, then your arrogance offends me, and because that my depo just went down 1000%. In fact I move my planned depo on another week. Now it's Feb, keep going and I make it March. Push me to Dec-2016 I dare you.

Rick
Click to expand...

Please. Run out of ped, don't deposit and leave?
 
the_prophet said:
Snip long wall of text.
Click to expand...
I have said this before in my thread, and I will repeat it here. If it's possible to have a bad loot cycle to last nearly 3000 kills on an lv3 mob most likely, this can happen the higher up you go, if not even longer cycles before loot even out, as you have described "the hof to push you back up in returns".

If this is the case for some people where they are always losing lots of ped per hunt the likely culprits are hunting too big for the ped card, so losses from this scenario are severe ped loss long term esp with no mu. Atm I am on 98% TT returned because I now follow certain principles that allow me to stay afloat for longer, it's boring, but at least my pedcard does not disappear after one hunt and usually get the losses back the next run.

Now in regards to what mimim is saying, the principle is straightforward. Have a higher DPP than your rivals, have lower def costs than your rivals, their returns will then go to your loots it is sad but true. I've profited using a minuscule setup who others might laugh at, but one thing I know is my limits, two I hunt where there is markup.

There are currently 2 items in-game for the average hunter that would slash your playing costs by around 5% over someone who does not use this hunting gear. Now 5% over 1K spent is 50ped that is huge savings, so realistically you should be seeing your TT returns going up by that much. I can attest to this as I have been using one of such gears of late and originally I was just under the 95% return mark. Since using the gear, it has reduced my def costs by approximately 2-3%; my returns now have gone up by a similar degree at 98%.

If I were to obtain the second piece of the puzzle, I'm fairly certain my returns will go higher up to 99-100%. You are not fighting the system; you are using the system to fight others out of potential loot, very simple. I hope this addresses some of the other points people have made, which I've identified hunting above your limit, not skill, not gear limit but of course your ped limit.

PS: I never said kill 3000 mobs in one go, I myself kill at best 1k per/day so in the worst case I get 3 days of bad loots or 6 days if half until a return back.
 
Last edited:
Funny how much controversy one success story can create! Makes those few that ppl dared to share publicly stand out even more... ;)

Hate to rub salt into wounds of all the ppl who have lost big recently, but...
M Rufen Power said:
Now in regards to what mimim is saying, the principle is very simple. Have a higher DPP than your rivals, have lower def costs than your rivals, their returns will then go to your loots it is sad but true.
Click to expand...
Think about it. How they call this genre? MMO, right? A multiplayer game.
It's easy to forget this when u're hunting alone. Eventually u might even get an impression u indeed all alone against some impersonal "system".
OK, it seems there's a grain of truth in this. It seems there might be some compensation mechanisms which in short term help to level down too high losses and too high profits - to a degree.

Then again, if u think u're all alone in a single player game u wrong on so many levels... There's no personal lootpool. The game is highly competitive. Or rather, competitive to a lower or higher degree, depending on what exactly u doing, where, and when.
Wanna win? Figure out the best strategy (and tactics) as u go. Using skills and experience (which is costly), using better gear (requires investments), using the gut feeling/intuition (which can let u down anytime without giving any explanations :)).

Now, be honest! Would it really be worth playing if it was any other way? :cool:
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
the_prophet said:
such ignorance, much wow....
Click to expand...

I know. I don't really feel the need to sponfeed the things that have been said earlier in this post. It's not black magic or rocket science so spend some time reading trough it and it won't be a problem to get a rough idea of what's needed. I'm trying hard to stop replying cause it's just a waste of time since if people don't understand it by now in this thread there isn't really a hope anyways ^^

Those that need this elaborated more should start another thread to not bash Una's achievement thread anymore and see if someone has the patience it takes to type the same things fifthy times without getting anywhere close.
 
minim said:
I know. I don't really feel the need to sponfeed the things that have been said earlier in this post. It's not black magic or rocket science so spend some time reading trough it and it won't be a problem to get a rough idea of what's needed. I'm trying hard to stop replying cause it's just a waste of time since if people don't understand it by now in this thread there isn't really a hope anyways ^^

Those that need this elaborated more should start another thread to not bash Una's achievement thread anymore and see if someone has the patience it takes to type the same things fifthy times without getting anywhere close.
Click to expand...

Dear minim

I've always loved your superiority complex, it's endearing at times. The way you wriggle through threads like a snake gently caressing your chosen path, heading for that large plinth to stand tall and proud awash with personal wisdom and enlightenment. You desire to look down upon a sea of poor souls, knelling with respect and admiration, but those poor souls are just not there, it you not I that need a cuddle....and I'll tell you why:

Maybe buying an item you didn't loot and selling it for more ped, makes you reach for that box of tissues. But it's not the holy grail my friend, it's simply a solution or option to use up your entertainment time to raise some peds at the loss to another player.

For me the wonder and excitement would come from looting something cool, to make some MU peds. It's still the same MU game, with the difference of the enjoying the exhilaration of the actual loot.

That minim is a game worthy of entertainment. That is what's missing from the game, the thrill of the find.

So I'll stick to being a dreamer.

now go wash your hands.

Rick x

edit: ps Looted items are generally compensation anyway, so maybe buying them is the least loss.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ZPF
RickEngland said:
Dear minim

I've always loved your superiority complex, it's endearing at times. The way you wriggle through threads like a snake gently caressing your chosen path, heading for that large plinth to stand tall and proud awash with personal wisdom and enlightenment. You desire to look down upon a sea of poor souls, knelling with respect and admiration, but those poor souls are just not there, it you not I that need a cuddle....and I'll tell you why:

Maybe buying an item you didn't loot and selling it for more ped, makes you reach for that box of tissues. But it's not the holy grail my friend, it's simply a solution or option to use up your entertainment time to raise some peds at the loss to another player.

For me the wonder and excitement would come from looting something cool, to make some MU peds. It's still the same MU game, with the difference of the enjoying the exhilaration of the actual loot.

That minim is a game worthy of entertainment. That is what's missing from the game, the thrill of the find.

So I'll stick to being a dreamer.

now go wash your hands.

Rick x
Click to expand...

Good luck. Do you even try?
 
minim said:
Good luck. Do you even try?
Click to expand...

It's a loaded answer but what the hell, I will never stand there doing trading for hours, it's just not for me.
Occasionally I've bought the odd item for resale, made 200 ped on a gun in under an hour once.

Although there's so many aggressive traders at auction these days, you'd have to be very lucky to find something they miss. Not to mention the game actively encourages devaluations in it's attempt to kill trading and force deposits.

I actually own a few spare rings, on the speculative chances at some point MA will reach their target drops and it will end. Others believe the rings will continue to drop forever. My timing sucked of course, but hey-ho.

Held a ton of CLD's at one point for a year.

Hunted for MU of course, gazz of drones for example

Deposited for some compet, so lets see where that goes.

Hunted mega eco with MF for long periods

I've never had a problem with peoples success, and I truly mean that. I have issues with protection of certain markets and item values. If a well known reseller has an item for sale it's worth 100K, if another owns the same item its worth 20K.....that sort of collective bullying annoys me, and I used to see it a lot.

Although minim, I look at it like this, over the years there must have been tens of thousands of items dropped, personally I think the distribution has not always been as fair as it should've been. That said I think those items go to players that are extremely good at finding buyers and have a reputation of selling things. I've given it a lot of thought, it makes sense to MA to follow that position.

Even so; I think looted uber items, are very often compensation for an extremely bad run of luck, way out of what I would personally accept on a hunt.

If I made a mistake it was not mining when I started 10 years ago....I just found it too boring.

No regrets though. Game changes, new opportunities.

Have a nice evening.

Rick
 
Even if I feel that I would gain more from watching paint dry I will elaborate some of what's needed to succeed with not depoing since this obviously is hard to get for some. I will not cover everything and I do not know everything either but if this doesn't give you a clue then I can't help you I'm afraid. I'm going to jump ahead to the time you have gathered some peds and levels but this would most likely take a few years just to give an idea of the patience needed.

The basics is that you have to understand is that you do not sell ANYTHING to the trade terminal in the start and a good while ahead. This is what I mean by other players paying for your playtime since most use markup (enhancers, L guns, crafted amps ++) in their time but this kind of players are very good at balancing their use of markup with their income of markup from looted oils/comps/mined minerals++ and almost spend more time researching than actually grinding. They are also good at the details that others tend to overlook.

If you hunt, run out of peds, but looted a lot of oil and that oil has low markup at the moment then you do not sell it but stack it away in storage and wait for better times. In this time you can sweat, try to do services or whatever but you do not sell something for 102% to get out hunting if you in two weeks can get 106% for it. This has been the case with oils among other things for years that they go up/down in markup related to events/season and so on but it is a lot harder now as Una mentioned. As you gather up components, extractors or anything else interesting you need to do research where it is used and the best thing you can do is to try to find crafters that use it and sell it directly without using auction. If you are looting a lot of resources you cannot find enough buyers for at a decent markup then you are hunting the wrong creatures, mining the wrong place/depth/whatever or crafting the wrong things.

And some are complaining that they go out and loose 50% of their peds in one run and have to deposit again. This is a major error you cannot do if you are playing without depositing. This is hunting way over your budget and then you cannot overcome the bad periods since loot is swinging a lot. You have to hunt a mob where your pedcard can get through the rough periods and this could mean that you at level 70 have to go back to hunting a mob you killed over 50 levels ago if your bankroll is low enough. This is back to the part mentioned above about not TTing loot and possibly you have to wait with selling loot to maximise your returns and this locks even more peds. It is very easy to fall in this trap and empty your card hoping for the "big one".

In the end those I know that track the TT loot in a long period somehow end roughly at the same place and it is higher than most write here on the forum. I've noticed a big difference on how volatile loot is for different players but in the end the average number evens out. Those with volatile loot often hof a lot bigger when they first do hof but they also have long and rough periods in between those hofs. You can to a degree modify this with hunting low cost to kill/click/drop and decide how much you want to "gamble" with increasing this but imo there is a big difference between avatars anyways. It is however important to know that this is not affecting the TT average. These days having a non-volatile loot like my avatar imo is a good thing since shrapnell/ammo is major part of big hofs and I'd rather take many L guns in globals/mini hofs than one big one with pure TT. I also firmly belive that you have to track ALL your expenses/loot in all professions (I even put PK in there when I tracked everything).

"The big one". FORGET IT!!! You don't even consider hunting for this or chasing rare items like UL sib guns and whatever. This is for way later with a much bigger bankroll where you can afford doing stupid things for a while before changing back. You hunt like mentioned above always chasing every amount of markup possible and extracting all of it like mentioned above.

MA like to say that this game is dynamic and it truly is. It is changing all the time and the only way to make it as a non depoer is to try to be as far ahead of the competition at changes as possible. Instead of looking at what is nerfed and whine about it at a update they look for new possibilities and try to catch them before anyone else does. If your favorite markup mob/mineral/item to craft doesn't give you the markup you are looking for after a change then you take a step back and find something else to do instead of forcing your "luck" (that doesn't exists).

The booring part I forgot to mention but patience is really one of the most important things here. There is a challenge itself in managing without depoing but a lot of the things you have to go through is really booring. That has to be ignored at the beginning or at least for a long time or else this is not possible.

There is a lot more to this but I've spent enough time and this should give you an idea of how to do it.

I will give a few examples to profit opportunities that involves playing and not reselling since some seems to have a narrow mind.

1. A few years back big Scipulors was a safe bet on how to profit. They dropped some decent markup L guns, oils, output amps, high mu armor, esis and a high TT imp L gun in the big hofs. I huntet these a lot in team with a friend since they where to high level for me to hunt efficiently in the start for myself but we had big amounts of oils, HL guns, imp LR ++. The HL11 (i think it was) used to sell around 120-130% at that time and we stockpiled at the times markup hit 115% and tried to sell when it was 125% and this could go up/down often but usually it didn't stay down for more than a week or so if I recall correctly. From memory here is some of the common loots and mu HL11 120-130%, imp lr48 120-130%, output amps 400%, rutuba 160-250%, esis 600-1000%, muscle 106-110%. It was impossible to loose money on these. If in doubt check out bait KK with 1.2Mill ped/11k globals, Medea Adel Green with 900k ped/8k globals or haylie duoduo xu 570k/5k globals and ask any of those how many hundred thousand peds they made from these mobs. These did not drop any UL fancy pancy item but they where giving good average markup and you sold the loot to other players that again paid for your playing time.

2. Recently mushrooms was added to caperon and down in the caves on marcimex. If you grinded for these in the start ahead of competition it was possible to make a good amount of peds by selling either mushrooms or the made healkits to other players. Again other players are paying for your playing time making you profit.

3. Caves, looting needed parts for amp upgrades among with decent MU from the other loot and by this you could make some decent profit.

4. Back when Osseo dropped a lot of output amps at 400%, HL20 at 160% and the same for emik X5 L + some good oils it was possible to make decent profit on them. People like styker hunted these a lot and it was not by random ^^ Again a mob that was not known for dropping UL stuff (like chomper for Assassin R150++).

5. warlock. Back when Robot Flare filter had a sick MU Warlocks that only spawned in the crater at that time dropped a lot of it. It was only like 10 mobs in spawn total ranging from level 7 to level 10 so it was hard to grind them but it was rewarding. They dropped flare filters with a crazy high MU, esis, LR59, output amps and so on. As long as the flare filters stayed high (500%+) it was not possible to loose money them since you could get 100-200ped on 1500ped ammo. Flares was used to craft a markup L gun svempa X1 I think.

6. Kamaldons when armor was added to loot. It was raining for weeks and you could profit only with selling armor and TTing the rest of the loot but the rest was decent mu also.

7. Instances at ark when it was possible to buy persesus for the looted coins and sell it for 160% on auction.

8. Eomons during latest migration. Impossible to loose on them with all the gun drops ^^

9. Big bulks in the past for good amounts of Gazz.

10. Drone elites in earlier robot invasion when flares where priced 5-600%+. Goldmine..

You prolly know about stuff like this also and it is always around but most of them are not around for a long time and you have to catch it while it's there and know when to stop ^^ Also make a note that none of the above mentioned chasing a big hof or looting a very rare item just plain markup that could be looted by anyone spending time on it.

This is prolly not enough or enough accurate for you but now I'm finally done with this crap and now I really wont spend more time on this bs.
 
RickEngland said:
I've always loved your superiority complex, it's endearing at times. The way you wriggle through threads like a snake gently caressing your chosen path, heading for that large plinth to stand tall and proud awash with personal wisdom and enlightenment. You desire to look down upon a sea of poor souls, knelling with respect and admiration, but those poor souls are just not there
Click to expand...

Looooooool

You just described so many people on this forum perfectly with that piece of gold

:cool::wtg::lolup::yup:
 
This is not the thread for this but I cant sit by and watch people calling long time knowledgeable players stupid or act if they know nothing about this game, Its because they know about this game they are speaking out.



I would bring attention to an in-depth look at how the system has worked for most doing well and how it works for the ones doing badly.

Unfortunately since it has name's and item's and loot records it will show how clear and undeniably things that separate the winners from the losers.

Also UL item dropping "This ones reallly interesting"

Last but not least Past testimony's from players who were doing bad and a very clear pivot point to when they changed there outlook to loot is stable.

Then to finish it off a huge amount of people saying they weren't getting 90% and the loot was killer. Long time very knowledgeable players.


I will have to publish it on another entropian forum and get the word out. But it was the collection of this data that has brought me to the forum in the first place.

After years spending 1000's or PED and reading and advice from uber's and then doing the EXACT thing as they do and not making even the slightest dent in my loot return. EVEN with SECURE INVESTMENTS.

I started to look at what they were doing, and what I started to find shocked me...

Tho I wanted to deny or say most of it was just circumstantial, No matter how I want to say that I cant deny the stacking facts.


The loot system is no mystery and theres no magic to it, you simply cant be successful if your being setup to fail, But there is good evidence to support that people hunting in Team's and Taming can minimize this and maybe make the game playable.
 
Aside from my last post, you guys should read in detail Minim last post,

That is diffidently the way you should go about your game. BUT take note you need the proper skills for mobs like Big Bulk's if not you must Team on those or any mobs like them.

Robot instances on Caly are good as well since they drop a lot of mat's with MU.

In fact this has inspired me to do one more thing in my search, I will make a post of all the mobs worth hunting in EU. What there desired loot is and the MU.

People should rep Minim, there good info for all to take from that post.
 
KullXP said:
...
Tho I wanted to deny or say most of it was just circumstantial, No matter how I want to say that I cant deny the stacking facts.

...
Click to expand...
Yes, we have a lot of facts about loot and economy.

KullXP said:
...
The loot system is no mystery and theres no magic to it, you simply cant be successful if your being setup to fail
...
Click to expand...
But your conclusion is not a fact, merely your personal interpretation of the facts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top