Question: CLD Price and Payout Drop

Isn't that what we all do on a daily basis with every purchase made anywhere? Markup on any given item in any store anywhere can and does go up or down on an almost daily, or hourly basis at a Manager's whim. Does that keep you from buying gas or groceries? Online, it's even worse... http://www.tesh.com/story/money-and...-vary-depending-on-the-shopper/cc/12/id/26314


CLD revenue and AUD revenue are COMPLETELY different, to setting a store item price.

My god...i will let someone else explain.


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: i can see it now, google dividends....'we don't fancy paying out shareholders dividends this week....soo booo to ya!

ROFL, any company that does what you suggest would be prosecuted by law. And the board would probably be all sent to jail
 
I'm pretty sure they were. CLD holders have received ~1280 ped total, so MA should have gotten ~$250 for the week.

Doubting it raises this question: If you actually suspect this, why the f**k do you play?

Well, people play football at many different levels and continue to do so despite the goings on at the 'upper end'.

I like your question about what MA got this time round - was it the $250?

P.S. language comment: recently I've been seeing more use of words like probably, pretty sure, etc. I do like people being more precise about what they think the probabilities are, but that then begs the question of what 'information' they are using for that.

Even if people argue something by saying that MA have said so, it helps to sort out positions. MA have said there were exploiters - a number of us have expressed the opinion that this is a smokescreen at best and not a factor in the scale of the problem (i.e. the 2nd payout of virtually zero was after they had apparently stopped the exploiters, but reopened the handing in).

But yes, I am considering changing my sport!
 
I'm pretty sure they were. CLD holders have received ~1280 ped total, so MA should have gotten ~$250 for the week.

I doubt that, imo MM was calypso event so UA rewards came from caly/CLD part of revenue and MA got the whole other half
 
I'm pretty sure they were. CLD holders have received ~1280 ped total, so MA should have gotten ~$250 for the week.

Doubting it raises this question:

Actually this is not true since

MA = return/2


CLD = (Return/2 - UA payout)/2
PPC = (Return/2 - UA payout)/2


Or to take some arbitrary figures

Return= 1,000,000
UA bonus: 400,000

MA return = 500,000
CLD = 50,000 --> (1,000,000/2 -400,000) / 2
PPC= 50,000 --> (1,000,000/2 -400,000) / 2

So in this case; a million ped have been taken out of the system; but PPC/CLD added 400.000 in prizes.
Thus; MA makes half a million; and PPC/CLD make 100.000 together.

But it is true that PPC (consisting out of 4 people) will have made a loss after paying the wages.
But as long as in the long run; they maintain operating costs; everything will turn out fine.

Which makes the total value of CLD equal to the operating costs of 4 people; renting a room in MA HQ.
Well, at least, I think it's still 4 people...

Math, Math :wtg:
 
Ok, you two are implying that MA takes its half of Calypso revenue before Calypso team takes control of the remaining. It's possible. But if that's the arrangement, then MA doesn't have to be treated equally to CLD holders. Come to think of it, why MA have to be liable for PP's ill-conceived business decisions?
 
Come to think of it, why MA have to be liable for PP's ill-conceived business decisions?

Seem they are not but they should.
Because they took away almost all "free" developers to work on compet project, leaving one or two dudes in caly team without any help or support backup.
 
Ok, you two are implying that MA takes its half of Calypso revenue before Calypso team takes control of the remaining. It's possible. But if that's the arrangement, then MA doesn't have to be treated equally to CLD holders. Come to think of it, why MA have to be liable for PP's ill-conceived business decisions?

Those two are implying that, yes. However, that is NOT the description I have seen ANYWHERE in posts by MA or pps, where the splitting is always stated at the same level, implying NO difference between MA, pp and CLD owners on when the cut is made.
It is bad enough if the term R-e-v-e-n-u-e is being screwed, which already looks like a proven on almost no official statements.
If MA now take their 'cut' in the way being suggested (really of revenue), while CLD owners don't, then I think we are seeing a new level of more than just deviousness! MA stand to benefit more by allowing players to have UA than CLD holders their rightful levels of payouts.

So, expect a new high level daily mission for 'certain' players, or even everybody?, paid for by the PP and CLD owners. Turnover on Caly improves and MA gets income, but pp and CLDs do not make peds themselves - Caly as MA's bitch, so to speak, and CLD owners as what....?
 
Those two are implying that, yes. However, that is NOT the description I have seen ANYWHERE in posts by MA or pps, where the splitting is always stated at the same level, implying NO difference between MA, pp and CLD owners on when the cut is made.
It is bad enough if the term R-e-v-e-n-u-e is being screwed, which already looks like a proven on almost no official statements.
If MA now take their 'cut' in the way being suggested (really of revenue), while CLD owners don't, then I think we are seeing a new level of more than just deviousness! MA stand to benefit more by allowing players to have UA than CLD holders their rightful levels of payouts.

So, expect a new high level daily mission for 'certain' players, or even everybody?, paid for by the PP and CLD owners. Turnover on Caly improves and MA gets income, but pp and CLDs do not make peds themselves - Caly as MA's bitch, so to speak, and CLD owners as what....?


Not that i have a clue, i can imagine MA do take their cut before prizes are paid out.

That leaves autonomous management to the PP. Giving them the ability to give out what ever prizes and amounts they want, as it wouldnt affect MA.

I don't know if that is the case or not. But if i was MA, that is the way i would want it.

Now if only CLD's were not included. I still think it is barbaric that CLD owners fit the cost of a programming issue.

Prizes offered by a planet partner should come out of PP revenue stream. (not that we know what the revenue stream really is, probably decay + other bits)

Unless i completely miss-understood what you mean?


Rgds

Ace
 
Wait.... what? my understanding has always been that MA takes half of revenue PP the other half THEN CLD holders and PP split from that half, why would MA shoulder a PPs freebie give outs? I think they even said as much multiple times when the deeds where released, im way to lazy to go back and look but im 99% sure they explained it like that in fine detail.

Surely as a parent company you need to be insulated well enough from the market swings of the individual companies you stand above that they dont tank your entire revenue share for a week because of the decision of one of those companies. To do otherwise seems absolutely irresponsible to me.
 
Not that i have a clue, i can imagine MA do take their cut before prizes are paid out.

That leaves autonomous management to the PP. Giving them the ability to give out what ever prizes and amounts they want, as it wouldnt affect MA.

I don't know if that is the case or not. But if i was MA, that is the way i would want it.

Now if only CLD's were not included. I still think it is barbaric that CLD owners fit the cost of a programming issue.

Prizes offered by a planet partner should come out of PP revenue stream. (not that we know what the revenue stream really is, probably decay + other bits)

Unless i completely miss-understood what you mean?


Rgds

Ace
I agree with you, yes. My issue is not with MA taking their cut off pure and unchanged revenue figures, it is what I expect anyway from the term revenue in the first place. The 'problem' is when they use the same expression of gross revenue and decide it is something different for CLD holders.
 
Wait.... what?

It's always been stated as 50%, 25%, 25% as far as I recall, which HAS to be of the SAME thing.
It is true we do not actually know everything that goes INTO gross revenue, but you can't start taking bits OUT in different ways. CLD payout totals should basically be half as high as what MA gets each week; either they got $250 or so this week (not my calculation), or CLD owners should have got more than 2 pecs!
 
if im not wrong is PPC that organized the event and took all the logistic decision in this event.
There is nothing wrong on MA taking the 50% as they do with every else planet partner. And there is nothing wrong of planet calypso revenue affects cld revenue as soon an 50% goes to mindark 20% goes to ppc and 30% goes in clds, i mean in terms of rules.

In the planet partnership is also specified that all mission rewards are to indend to fully withdrawn from the 50% that goes to the planet partner and not to mindark. So this exclude mindark from responsability for the mayhem screwup.

now its obvious we have to make some counts, assuming that cld revenue the 2 weeks of mayhem was around the one the week b4 we whould have an average payout of 4 ped each cld for a total of 240000ped in cld the first week from playes and 4pedx40000 virtual deeds ppc owns so 160000 ped and the second week 120000ped from cld 80000 from ppc.

When planet calypso understood that they had made a too hight loot rate the took off the npc of bonus reward but apparently it was too late as soon the ffa stars was still around and now it happened the week they restored a 3rd time where other 240000 ped was withdrawn from cld and 120000 from ppc

so this event costed around 840000 ped, assuming the losses wont be portait in future cld revenue cuts.

Now as many other cld owner, i dont like this missing money i had but what concerns me more is the cld value loss because of ppc unprofessional behaviour. First they screwed up with loot rate. 2nd they didnt told anything to players before that whould have increased the investor trust in then not making cld drop value so fast. 3rd they still didnt say a word to us after all this happens and letting us guessing. we are talking about 100k dollar losses of wich 60k dollar from players pockets and at least we deserve a word from them.

if they planned to give away revenue to players in this event they should have told before to investors. but they didnt and blamed exploiters at first causing a player versus player behaviour and after they said there was no problem on it.

Another point is that cld should also comes with a vote system never implemented that should allow players to have a word on this sort of matters.

All this unprofessional behaviour caused the main problem wich is the cld drop value, wich can only be fixed is MA, according to the fact that calypso even if it is a planet partnership its the official mindark one, decide to refound player and warn its staff that the same event could be handled without a so big ripercussion on cld investor so on cld value but only on cld revenue.

Also and more important then others is they made sure with this that most of investors that didnt know this could happen now nows that this can really happen wich will result in a permanent loss in cld value unless ma takes money from they're pocket and refound cld investors, or unless ppc gets out with a press release that they scewed up and it wont happen again and claim to have fired the responsable.
 
The real problem with the issue being batted around for the last page is that MA and FPC are essentially the same thing now, so FPC (MA) can decide to hold a high-reward event, which gets paid for out of FPC/CLD returns while not affecting FPC (MA). And they can continue to do that, basically having CLD owners pay the majority of the bribe to bring people out to caly for events and then pocketing half of the increased revenue themselves. If FPC were really a separate organization, with its own need to survive, it wouldn't do that out of self interest.

They need to (1) take some kind of punitive action against the so-called exploiters and (2) make it clear that the above isn't their plan. Otherwise, i see a really rocky future for CLDs. Of course, they will do neither. I am 100% certain they will not do (1) and almost any comment they made to address (2) would not (and could not) be taken at face value, simply because the current arrangement for CLDs and MA/FPC is a conflict of interest.
 
And while were at blaming and shaming, did anyone who expirienced a Error 36 on Cat3 solo and didnt got their Mayhem Star points credited nor the UA reward comming with it in some cases had thier support call awnserd yet ?

I mean its weeks ago this support cases were made
 
... funny how Shoti always whines and speculates and never has any proof.

You cant expect CLD to always give out, as sometimes big hofs, bugs, etc can lead to tt output > tt input. In that case nothing to be shared left.

Right after you gave shoti a blast of shit for saying something without proof, you came up with this theory???
So now MA pays for big hofs from their pocket?
Big hofs and ATHs are payed by other players my friend, some lose so others can win
 
if im not wrong is PPC that organized the event and took all the logistic decision in this event.
There is nothing wrong on MA taking the 50% as they do with every else planet partner. And there is nothing wrong of planet calypso revenue affects cld revenue as soon an 50% goes to mindark 20% goes to ppc and 30% goes in clds, i mean in terms of rules.

In the planet partnership is also specified that all mission rewards are to indend to fully withdrawn from the 50% that goes to the planet partner and not to mindark. So this exclude mindark from responsability for the mayhem screwup.

So MA owns and runs Caly. There is no division in responsibility. The buck stops with the CEO.
 
Shoti is not playing, cause shoti don´t have money.
Shoti don´t have money because shot is not doing well.

Simple as that ;)

... funny how Shoti always whines and speculates and never has any proof.


When I am whining there is always some kind of evidence which bring me to it. Don't tell me that thousnads os CLD holder who not received their money is not good proof enough. When MA refused to pay withdrawals on time got it all printscreened and recorded so serving proofs if neded any time.

Company who is doing well not allowing such thiungs to happen, even if some major screw up took place they have special reserve for dealing with it. MA simply cant afford defending it;s good name thats why CLD owners got nothing.

Also annual reports and lack of audits are clear proofs of their financial struggle.So what other proofs u need ? What happened recenty is clear enough for me. You simply invested so much time and/or money into this game that you refuse to see it.
 
Simple as that ;)




When I am whining there is always some kind of evidence which bring me to it. Don't tell me that thousnads os CLD holder who not received their money is not good proof enough. When MA refused to pay withdrawals on time got it all printscreened and recorded so serving proofs if neded any time.

Company who is doing well not allowing such thiungs to happen, even if some major screw up took place they have special reserve for dealing with it. MA simply cant afford defending it;s good name thats why CLD owners got nothing.

Also annual reports and lack of audits are clear proofs of their financial struggle.So what other proofs u need ? What happened recenty is clear enough for me. You simply invested so much time and/or money into this game that you refuse to see it.

CLD owners get part of planet partner revenue not MAs. If they dont receive money it is something to do with planet partner not doing well and not MA (we all know that planet partner got screwed by some ppl exploiting system, and unbalanced amounts of UA given out for points). Refused to pay withdrawals on time? What time? All i can see it is said that withdrawal are committed in 50 businessdays or sometimes longer period , no specific period set. But please do provide those screenshots.
Last annual report shows MA doing rather very well (compared to previous years) so dont know what you are talking about.

Again you posted post with lots of accusation and again 0 evidence provided. You sure love trolling. Give us screenshots where MA failed to pay out money requested.

And also if it so "Clear enough" for you, why the f--- are you still here? Go play with LEGOs or something you do trust, dont poison the community with your wild theories.
 
Simple as that ;)




When I am whining there is always some kind of evidence which bring me to it. Don't tell me that thousnads os CLD holder who not received their money is not good proof enough. When MA refused to pay withdrawals on time got it all printscreened and recorded so serving proofs if neded any time.

Company who is doing well not allowing such thiungs to happen, even if some major screw up took place they have special reserve for dealing with it. MA simply cant afford defending it;s good name thats why CLD owners got nothing.

Also annual reports and lack of audits are clear proofs of their financial struggle.So what other proofs u need ? What happened recenty is clear enough for me. You simply invested so much time and/or money into this game that you refuse to see it.

You had last global a year ago :D (And you even had 64k loot, with 140k of total loot, lolz)

I am sometimes wondering if people like you have nothing better to do then complaining on forum of game they don't even play at all :p
 
CLD owners get part of planet partner revenue not MAs. If they dont receive money it is something to do with planet partner not doing well and not MA [...]

MA and FPC is same ppl , same office, same company. Spliting into 2 entities is accounting trick alowing various services, cost optimalisation and taking additional 25% out of CLD holders


Refused to pay withdrawals on time? What time? All i can see it is said that withdrawal are committed in 50 businessdays or sometimes longer period , no specific period set. [...]

Heard about improvement lately in this matter. Still what I experienced was 3 months of waiting at amounts 100 K peds +


Last annual report shows MA doing rather very well (compared to previous years) so dont know what you are talking about.[...]

Yup, thats one annual. Even dead cat bounce.


And also if it so "Clear enough" for you, why the f--- are you still here? Go play with LEGOs or something you do trust, dont poison the community with your wild theories.

Luckily is not you who deceide what I can or can't write here. It's clear for me so just want share that with other players who might not be so experienced in economy like me. Just don't read if u can;t stand someone pointing out that MA/FPC financials are far from being ok.


You had last global a year ago :D (And you even had 64k loot, with 140k of total loot, lolz)

I am sometimes wondering if people like you have nothing better to do then complaining on forum of game they don't even play at all :p

I have over 1 200 000 ped recorded globals, hof's and ATH's on tracker out of close 4 100 000 ped loot total i tracked. Hunting u mentioning wasn't my main activity. Have lot of cool stuff to do, rather than beeing robbed by greedy,stupid busines and gaming amateurs. Thats why play so rarily lately and posting even less :p
 
Last annual report shows MA doing rather very well (compared to previous years) so dont know what you are talking about.

You call loosing around 5,6 Msek "doing rather well", I don't want to know what a company "doing bad" look like. :silly2:
 
It's interesting reading through the posts in this thread. Indicating that a large amount of money is still to be made from Entropia. It's always the way that, aside from luck, you make money from other players not the house. I'm not referring to the shunned practice of tricking (scamming) other players directly, in civilised society we view easy attacks as unsporting - as with a lightsaber the acceptance of a supposed handicap makes for a sporting and hence fair/legitimate method to win. We make our money by indirectly feeding of those with less insight, knowledge, inability to commit, all-or-nothing types, fickle investors, conspiracy types, manipulators caught in their own game, the list of defective personality attributes is nearly endless.

I don't mean to suggest that anyone in particular or even generally that people are 'suckers' or ped wallets waiting to be farmed by the hawkish few. There are many people, some of which I've been fortunate enough to call friends, who whilst have many endearing qualities, keeping/making ped isn't one. We all know a guy who bought a set of armor or weapon and expected that to be the single magic key, then selling it a couple of weeks later to fund another ill-conceived idea. We looked on, advised them, but ultimately made money of them either directly or more likely indirectly. By appreciating that a level of removal, distancing one from a specific transaction isn't relevant when considering the whole set - those who profit Vs. those who don't. Everyone who profits is making money from those who don't, just in a socially acceptable - pressing a button on a ICMB launcher miles from the battlefield - kind of way.

Entropia has quite a well developed gamer base, many (far smarter than me) people with the ability to analyse the universe and strategize appropriately. For every venture in Entropia (of course life in general!) and to whatever level I've become involved, two ideas have always been ultimately important.
1.How does this relate (which is the lowest common denominator of 'does this map to real-life', 'do people expect this', etc.)
2.Can I control myself (the lowest common denominator of 'will I be committed', 'can I control emotion', 'will I remain objective regardless of goal')

There are so many posts on the forum littered with a healthy dollop of insight and some that are basically correct. The single biggest problem seems to be the inability to separate emotion and money. You should never make financial decisions based upon a reactionary mental state - anger, shock, depression, joy (like investing too much when you get the big bonus). The parallels drawn to the real world are helpful for understanding the virtual investment potential of CLD. Whilst there's much said that is simply incorrect, for those that have a reasonable level of education and the time to read both the small print and selectively consider the communities analysis, the truth isn't hard to uncover.

CLD's are a good investment for those that can afford to have the funds locked up and are aware of the inherent risks. Managing your involvement is a must, participation in any investment is about risk management, if you don't actively manage your CLD holding and can't truthfully answer the question 'do I have the right number of CLD's at the moment' then either you have too many or too few. Both of these lead to upset, either fear of loss or disappointment of missing out. The degree to which you fail to manage, causes shock reaction that causes much more damage than a managed risk. Either buying into a bubble or selling off at a loss.

Mastery of self can be achieved through acceptance of truths that don't benefit our position. Our mind constantly seeks to validate it's perception of the world and while that's not harmful of itself, it tends to mean too much effort is put into supporting our position/argument. Stop-evaluate-continue 'being wrong' gets people so worked up, when the concern should be proactively remaining wrong!

So if like me you know the worth of the investment you've made, go outside and enjoy some sunshine or log-in and shoot the mobs. If you don't, give it some serious thought, either buy some cheaper CLD's whilst the reactionary price drives them into a mini-dip or make your improve your relaxation by reducing risk - sell some.

One other thought - does money go into the CLD pot when people repair the decay from using universal ammo that they can't pull out of the system?
 
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