Gross Revenue

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There is a very important mistake on this page of the calypso website http://www.planetcalypso.com/opportunities/

It states that CLD holders are entitled to a % of the gross revenue.

Gross revenue means BEFORE paying prizes (since this is a marketing expense).

In case MA deducted the prize money from the payout; which actually would artificially deflate the gross revenue; this would have to accounted for as two separate operations to determine the gross revenue.

Which means that either the website is wrong; or PPC committed fraud; legally speaking.
But wait, there is more. Since PWC approved this; someone should contact them for explanation.
Someone speaking Swedish?




There are a total of 60,000 Calypso Land Deeds. Fifty percent of the gross Planet Partner revenue from Planet Calypso is divided evenly among all CLDs. Thus, one CLD entitles its holder to 1/60000 of the weekly payout.

Audited revenue numbers, January - June 2012:

Revenue sharing for Planet Calypso were as shown in this table for January - June 2012. Gross revenue numbers were audited by PwC (PriceWaterhouseCoopers), Göteborg, Sweden, in August 2012.
 
The planet partner revenue is what the planet receives from MA. The deduction has been made prior to this.
 
It's not fraud when you make up the rules yourself for pixels and stuff you own on your own server, in an unregulated industry.

If they decided tomorrow that there will never be any cld payment ever again, it'd still not be fraud... It'd piss a lot of people off, who likely would do something about it (probably trying to claim contract breech for a non-existent contract), but it wouldn't be fraud.

The term 'gross revenue' is whatever they define it to be, not what you define it to be.

They have the word 'holder' on the website and the deeds currently. Previously it was 'owner.' They changed that so if they want to change how things work after they are already in the hands of the community, it's nothing new. It is frustrating, but it's nothing new.
entropia_2011-11-21_02-06-11.jpg

deeds12.13.2011_-_no_owners.jpg


The event deduction prior to figuring out the 'gross revenue' is probably nothing new. It happened in the past, only nobody ever took notice as it didn't have as big of an impact as what happened recently. If it is new, there's nothing you can do about it since the pixels and peds are on their server, not yours.
 
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Please do not mistake Mindark and Planet partner.

Mindark is the one who gets our money.
Revenue for Planet partner is paid by MA. And this revenue is split (not MAs revenue)
 
Well let's have a think about that, what actually is MA's definition of Gross revenue?

Usually it means total sales, so what is a "sale" to MA?

Maybe it's decay, a list of micro payments the PP receives. It wouldn't be ammo spent, because the number would be too large, especially as loot is paid out as a cost.

Then it starts to become complicated, because my understanding is a PP owns a player, and therefore earns a percentage of that players micro payments wherever they go. So in essence a Caly player contributes to both Ark Deeds and CLD's when hunting in the Ark Underground (it can get complicated).

Maybe the actual definition should be "Tax Gross Revenue"

Now as many people will know certain things can be stated as tax deductible, and since MA are the Gods of their own "Internal Tax System", they could introduce any tax deductible rule they see fit.

I'm sure it happens already for many activities. What if hunting in any instances is actually owned by MA and not the PP. We just don't know.

However all the arguments aside, the total CLD return is extremely good, and I think you would struggle to win any argument in any court, that the tax paid was not less than "reasonable". Since any court are looking for fairness on both sides.

What if the uni ammo is simply a loan, because any weapon decay burning that ammo away will return to "tax" revenue. It would seem to me that ammo or loot is not part of the micro payment system.

So let's assume that we established that revenue means tax revenue (based on micro payments).
Then the main check of an auditor would be to ensure the amount of tax MA stated was distributed to players, actually was distributed.

Now a really good auditor may request a list of what is included in the tax revenue and check it, by selecting a few micro payment items from "MA's list".....BUT....it is still MA's list, NOT total sales but total tax.

So if MA told the auditor we made a tax deduction against tax revenue, I believe they would be free to do so. Especially as they gave away nothing as it was zero ped rated ammo. That raises another question though, what did they deduct, if the ammo is worth nothing...LOL (laughs).

Hope helps, or least stirs more debate.

Rick

ps: Even though MA might be playing such games, it's unlikely it will effect investors appetites for more deeds. Because the revenue is extremely good.
 
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It is pp revenue, not MA revenue.

PP revenue isn't determined until all costs are pulled out via MA's rules.

PP made nothing, so CLD holders got nothing.

Sounds fine to me.

And it def sounds like someone named after a spice company is feeding you stuff to post from another forum.

I am all for exposing bullshit...but some people try too hard and see bullshit where there is none.
 
I just wish MA could be more professional and transparent to what they do. But nope, they just do whatever they want. Best shown in Support Cases where they take months to answer a ticket and immediately close it after replying with no definite solution. Leaving you hopeless by creating yet another Support Case and by the time it is really fixed, it will be irrelevant.

In the meantime, I'm just waiting for Taco. :popcorn:

Edit: Oh, he's 2 minutes ahead of me. :3
 
IRL an announcement like that promoting investment would probably be considered as a prospectus and could most likely have legal implications if falsely worded or not adhered to.

However, promoting investment in what are effectively 'in game' bonds may be difficult to elevate legally to the point where a lawyer or court would consider them. The CLD are not tradeable outside the game.

This is really an in game market which is only regulated by MA themselves (the promoter and the regulator).

If someone loses big they may commit the resources to employ a legal team and take the thing to court, but I doubt it will happen.

IMHO cld holders are at the mercy of MA (change of wording, calculation of payout, etc).
Disclaimer: IANAL but maybe there is one in game who would have an opinion.
And of course financial regulations vary from country to country.

PS. not that I think MA is being dishonest, but the actual contract has never been really clear.
 
It is pp revenue, not MA revenue.

PP revenue isn't determined until all costs are pulled out via MA's rules.

PP made nothing, so CLD holders got nothing.

Sounds fine to me.

And it def sounds like someone named after a spice company is feeding you stuff to post from another forum.

I am all for exposing bullshit...but some people try too hard and see bullshit where there is none.

First time over very long period i agree 100% with you!
 
It is pp revenue, not MA revenue.

PP revenue isn't determined until all costs are pulled out via MA's rules.

PP made nothing, so CLD holders got nothing.

Sounds fine to me.

And it def sounds like someone named after a spice company is feeding you stuff to post from another forum.

I am all for exposing bullshit...but some people try too hard and see bullshit where there is none.

Owner of Calypso is MA.
Planet partner is MA.
Platform provider is MA.
MA pulled all "free" developers to work on compet project leaving just one or two dudes on Caly without any other help or support so they should be partially guilty for Caly.

In same amount of non existing bullshit one could see conflict of interests - MA: lets make an event and make cld owners pay for it, repeat, latter when CLD price fall enough we buy them back.
 
Owner of Calypso is MA.
Planet partner is MA.
Platform provider is MA.
MA pulled all "free" developers to work on compet project leaving just one or two dudes on Caly without any other help or support so they should be partially guilty for Caly.

In same amount of non existing bullshit one could see conflict of interests - MA: lets make an event and make cld owners pay for it, repeat, latter when CLD price fall enough we buy them back.

Coca Cola company buys Ice cream stall - gives it one employee and takes all the profit - now sells 50% of the stall to deed owners, stall gets robbed (exploited event case), should Coca cola play deed owners ?
Sure you can say Coca cola should have added some extra security etc etc, but thats something that deeds owners should consider before buying shares in ice cream stall.

Coca cola revenue =/= ice cream stall revenue (Specially if Coca Cola is selling coupons which can be used to buy ice cream, and only pays ice cream stall owners part that is left after costs (Coca cola is providing goods also).

Planet partner got exploited = deed owners suffer
 
Planet partner got exploited = deed owners suffer

Handing out massive amount of free ammo is not exploit but bad (or intentional) decision of company witch is owned and controlled by MA.
 
Handing out massive amount of free ammo is not exploit but bad (or intentional) decision of company witch is owned and controlled by MA.

If half of that free ammo is paid by CLD owners who were not asked it might be much more affordable :laugh:
 
I personally have no stake in CLD atm. But, from where I stand I see the same thing, MA used funds improperly.

The fault I don't think was intentional, but the design of the event, and the ensuing chaos for MM was 100% preventable. The event design is 80% the issue, alts are the other 20%. Both of these are 100% in the control of MA, not the PP.



If staff make such completely idiotic decisions, I will not support the mechanism. So no CLD for me.

If I did have a sizable amount,(I dont have any, so I really could care less, except for the principle of the decision) I would have sought legal action for sure. Mainly so that MA/Players could have a clear definition of what they can or cannot do in the situation. Ultimately I think a court could only answer this definitively, until then, MA is making risks in their decision making that I personally wouldn't go near.

I doubt the EULA would hold up in court anyhow, since they never enforce it. Lots of precedence set already, in our favor.


Its akin to a parent company coming in and raiding the coffers of a separate sub company just because they want to throw a party.

And this poor event design raided every cent out of the CLD revenue.
 
Ungratefull crybabies, they have taken so good care of your invest that value is up 60-90% and the base invested peds are allready back and they deliver money every week still and one week something was a bit worse (maybe the players got payed too well not giving you their whole ped ards at once) and then its crying........


Greeed makes me disgusted, chase of money is ok but filthy greed is dirty and ugly
 
Ungratefull crybabies, they have taken so good care of your invest that value is up 60-90% and the base invested peds are allready back and they deliver money every week still and one week something was a bit worse (maybe the players got payed too well not giving you their whole ped ards at once) and then its crying........


Greeed makes me disgusted, chase of money is ok but filthy greed is dirty and ugly

This whole game oozes greed and deception. I've never experienced so many people that are willing to trade honesty and integrity for just a few pennies at the drop of a hat. EU breeds greediness as a means to an end, and a defense mechanism for that matter. It's a poison environment that MA approves of and fosters and it's one of the reasons I'm selling out. It makes me sick just thinking about what it's done to me (and my pocketbook) over the years

No wonder I've never recommended this game to anyone I know in real life, MA is as greedy as any of the worst. Changing things around however they want, whenever they see fit, with no mind to professionalism or fairness. It's nothing but a big ass cheat with you on the top, so don't get on your high horse and start talking about ungratefulness or people being upset.
 
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No wonder I've never recommended this game to anyone I know in real life

Now there was me thinking I could use :lolup: as my signature, then I looked at yours:
Most things wrong in life start by forgetting what's right.

Simply a great post. Maybe it is fitting that a topic with a title so purely economic (gross revenue) should have such a good post inside it. It could be considered off-topic, but it sure is very relevant in my opinion! Thanks!

Edit PS: I forgot to put it here that I've also found great people here with a great deal of integrity, which offers a much better flip side to the coin!
 
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This whole game oozes greed and deception. I've never experienced so many people that are willing to trade honesty and integrity for just a few pennies at the drop of a hat. EU breeds greediness as a means to an end, and a defense mechanism for that matter. It's a poison environment that MA approves of and fosters and it's one of the reasons I'm selling out. It makes me sick just thinking about what it's done to me (and my pocketbook) over the years

No wonder I've never recommended this game to anyone I know in real life, MA is as greedy as any of the worst. Changing things around however they want, whenever they see fit, with no mind to professionalism or fairness. It's nothing but a big ass cheat with you on the top, so don't get on your high horse and start talking about ungratefulness or people being upset.

actually its the other way around for me,im always surprised by the honesty and integrity of so many players..in those 11 years ive played and loaned out stuff worth thousands of dollars i have never been scammed

to think you loan thousands of dollars to players you have no reallife info on and only trust them cause of their actions ingame,and if they want to do foul play you wont have any ground to regain those dollars...i'd say the level of playerhonesty is very large here
 
This whole game oozes greed and deception. I've never experienced so many people that are willing to trade honesty and integrity for just a few pennies at the drop of a hat. EU breeds greediness as a means to an end, and a defense mechanism for that matter. It's a poison environment that MA approves of and fosters and it's one of the reasons I'm selling out. It makes me sick just thinking about what it's done to me (and my pocketbook) over the years

No wonder I've never recommended this game to anyone I know in real life, MA is as greedy as any of the worst. Changing things around however they want, whenever they see fit, with no mind to professionalism or fairness. It's nothing but a big ass cheat with you on the top, so don't get on your high horse and start talking about ungratefulness or people being upset.

blah blah blah blah whine whine whine whine *flips table*.. that is all I hear from you. The only poison environment comes from people like you that has to bash everything. If you are THAT jaded, sell out and go away. Don't ruin the experience for others. Mindark didn't do anything to your pocket book. You did it, you never bothered to adapt, and now you are jaded that you feel the need to take everyone down as the door hits your ass on the way out. Just plain selfish.
 
This is more about a principle than anything !!
CLD buyers were owners now holders, even tought this game wouldnt exist whitout them,
remember the 6million dollars that were needed when the SEE deal failed ?
sure its not a big deal this few weeks, but surely u nay sayers work free for few week a year too
cause your income has taken such a good care of u ;) an its perfectly fine when for u when announced this way
weeks/days after the damage is done..
 
Ok........lets just cut to the chase.

Did a CLD owner claim any MM bonus rewards?

Was the value of that bonus ammo reward, greater than they would've received via a dividend?

That's all good I hear people say, but people that didn't own CLD's also got the opportunity to claim bonus rewards as well...and we don't like that.

So I put this to CLD owners:

Let's say MA said... ok I hear you, lets reverse the whole thing.

1) Everyone hands back the bonus's rewards including CLD's owners that claimed those rewards as well.
2) MA then pays out dividend on CLD's instead.

Regardless if everyone had the opportunity to claim the reward or not, I'm sure the reward/s in most cases would be much higher than the dividend.

So, would CLD owners really want to turn back the clock (if they could)... I doubt it.

Rick
 
What Rick said is true.

I want to add that all CLD holders had a chance to get that ammo, and buying it at 11 or 12 pec per point was very easy in the first few weeks. You had a profit of 1300-1400 ped at very little effort to you if you were smart and bought it...so unless you had over 350 CLD, you need to shut up.

Some had over 350 CLD maybe? Well whoever they are probably did lose out, even if they got the ammo...but they probably don't even play the game anymore, so no one cares.

In the end, I hope that this happens more often. The less a PP makes, the more fair all of our loot was.

Caly was making way too much already for this game to survive if you looked at the CLD payouts. And now with assets diverted for other games, their cost to run caly should be cheaper. MA needs to start lowering the revenue and give us players and cyclers 5% better loot!

Haha. It is WAY MORE important to maintain the current cycling players than the passive investors! Sorry to burst your bubble, passive CLD crybabies. They already got your money. AND you got paid back...whatever happens now, that's on you.
 
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Ungratefull crybabies, they have taken so good care of your invest that value is up 60-90% and the base invested peds are allready back and they deliver money every week still and one week something was a bit worse (maybe the players got payed too well not giving you their whole ped ards at once) and then its crying........


Greeed makes me disgusted, chase of money is ok but filthy greed is dirty and ugly

It's more about how MA/PC treats customers than greed, at least in my case.

I guess If MA/PC people were open and explained what and why is happening with missing CLD revenue (2015.12.28) and almost zero one (0.02 PED/CLD on 2016.01.18), then loads of players would not be that angry.
Unfortunately their lack of communication is so bad, that in such delicate matters like this one it is perceived by playerbase as simple arrogance.
This creates additional problems, lack of trust and other issues.

MA/PC would gain much credibility if they simply communicated better.
Sometimes I wonder what is the real reason why they don't do things right...

Note I even not suggest that they should admit they fucked-up, as we know it will not happen.
 
It's more about how MA/PC treats customers than greed, at least in my case.

I guess If MA/PC people were open and explained what and why is happening with missing CLD revenue (2015.12.28) and almost zero one (0.02 PED/CLD on 2016.01.18), then loads of players would not be that angry.
Unfortunately their lack of communication is so bad, that in such delicate matters like this one it is perceived by playerbase as simple arrogance.
This creates additional problems, lack of trust and other issues.

MA/PC would gain much credibility if they simply communicated better.
Sometimes I wonder what is the real reason why they don't do things right...

Note I even not suggest that they should admit they fucked-up, as we know it will not happen.

Well said.
 
non-existent contract

There is no such thing. Courts accept the notion of a contract even for things like you parking in a private parking lot and there being a big, easy to see and read sign saying that you have to pay 10$ a day to park there. You can read up more if you search for "verbal contracts", but we are in a very similar situation with MA. Even if we didn't sign anything, they made a clear, verbal and publicly posted contract with whoever bought the CLDs. It will stand in a court of law.
 
Ungratefull crybabies, they have taken so good care of your invest that value is up 60-90% and the base invested peds are allready back and they deliver money every week still and one week something was a bit worse (maybe the players got payed too well not giving you their whole ped ards at once) and then its crying........


Greeed makes me disgusted, chase of money is ok but filthy greed is dirty and ugly

I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. Consider that there are people that invested heavily into these deeds, and for them a week without pay (in this case, almost 3 weeks in recent months) means a heavy loss on investment, as well as mistrust in the thing they invested in. Get your heads out of your assholes with these stupid comments, when you probably haven't put a single cent into these deeds.
 
It's more about how MA/PC treats customers than greed, at least in my case.

I guess If MA/PC people were open and explained what and why is happening with missing CLD revenue (2015.12.28) and almost zero one (0.02 PED/CLD on 2016.01.18), then loads of players would not be that angry.
Unfortunately their lack of communication is so bad, that in such delicate matters like this one it is perceived by playerbase as simple arrogance.
This creates additional problems, lack of trust and other issues.

MA/PC would gain much credibility if they simply communicated better.
Sometimes I wonder what is the real reason why they don't do things right...

Note I even not suggest that they should admit they fucked-up, as we know it will not happen.

I completely agree with this post. Simple customer service?
 
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