30000 ped just gone ...... [Auction mistake]

This thread started with someone who made a mistake most people do feel bad the OP has lost their ped. They also feel that buyer should return the deeds due to mistake, especially as this happened to him too. We alll know that all trades are final and even if morally wrong he don't have to trade back as he did not break the rules. There is a lot talk he breaks the number of rules using the auction house. If this is so then players should contact MA with such evidence. Now this this thread has become a witch hunt against this buyer with many not seeing any evidence. The mods have rules they have to enforce to protect the innocent from others who don't know the full story, we see a lot claims from people saying others are cheaters with lack of evidence. Unfortunately this dose protect the guilty even with evidence, but we are not enforce rules in game that's MA job. So the mods if they like it or not will enforce the no naming, no shaming rule as the rule is for everyone. This includes rl names and addresses even when its a joke as not everyone may see as a joke humor can be taken wrong way by others. If you dont like how the forum is run no one is forcing you to use it.

e-lite said:

My view on this as a member of PCF is that being a member here is a privilege you have, not a right. Being a member of a community or a club requires you to follow some rules and guidelines. Some clubs and communitys have a dress code, or you need to own a certain watch or car, have a specific high IQ or something like that.

The same goes for this game itself, there's no "freedom of speech" inside the game. You are obliged to follow what is in the EULA. And trust me, I am not the kind of person that always follow the rules everywhere, (like right now I am posting off topic) but I don't see the few and simple rules that PCF have as unreasonable. Which is why I signed up for being a PCF moderator in the first place. That is my 2 cents.

Now, having said that, this thread will go back on topic or it will be locked.

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First of all to be not offtopic u dont need to delete it - after this post i will think about this very strange handling. It should be possible to give a answer if u quote me .

Mate you are totaly wrong with your writing about:

My view on this as a member of PCF is that being a member here is a privilege you have, not a right...... The same goes for this game itself, there's no "freedom of speech" inside the game.

§19 Human rights (UN)
* Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

I am totaly agree with ur writing about rules, guidelines in and outside EU, thats the same like freedom speech works in the real world. If u dont accept this we talk about despot, dictator and no democracy sytem. I do not compare with nazi/ germany - as a german i would say its the same like the GDR before the wall was fallen in 1989. (i grow up in the GDR and for sure there was no freedom speech)

To be back on line:

You dont understud what your Mods have done with deleting a thread, they have the background to stay by side of a other ppl. And i dont judg the way of helena, i dont like abuse, pilloried and so on. Helena has evidence about Wirlo acting? She has all right to speak about it, thats the human rights - but and thats the big point: It's not what you say, but how you say it.

If all is true what Helena says, MA step in torward and checking AND acting. Its the same like fill charges in the real world...

This deleted thread dont break the rule of freedom speech or we talk about the other postings inside the thread (like the comments about J***)? I am not informed about this guy, i dont know him, but thats the first time ill be insteressted in the information about him. And be sure if any of this is true it give many problems with the relationship between Mindark and his customers (gamer) many of the competior and specialist press will interessted in the scam the whole player-base.

I very surprised after a short research of all these information today.

And now back on Topic quote => PM

We all do bad deals, what of it? Move on with your lives....

Jon Moe Snow said:

We all do bad deals, what of it? Move on with your lives....

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You are right but that is usually due to knowledge. For example you happen to know that muscle oil is in short supply and I think it is plentiful. I sell to you at TT+101, you have a buyer at TT+110. This is a bad deal for me, but it's my fault. Your market knowledge is greater than mine. Me putting CLS's on the auction in error is not a bad deal - it is an error. Wirlo should repay.

gwit said:

You are right but that is usually due to knowledge. For example you happen to know that muscle oil is in short supply and I think it is plentiful. I sell to you at TT+101, you have a buyer at TT+110. This is a bad deal for me, but it's my fault. Your market knowledge is greater than mine. Me putting CLS's on the auction in error is not a bad deal - it is an error. Wirlo should repay.

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I don't know much about this story.. but from what I >heard< ofc rumours Wirlo wanted to pay before he got threw a bunch of shit and had a forum post made about him. That I do understand. I wouldn't have paid either.. but if someone contacted me in a good tone and explained it I might have been kind and repaid it.. but with Helena? I'd just laugh

gwit said:

You are right but that is usually due to knowledge. For example you happen to know that muscle oil is in short supply and I think it is plentiful. I sell to you at TT+101, you have a buyer at TT+110. This is a bad deal for me, but it's my fault. Your market knowledge is greater than mine. Me putting CLS's on the auction in error is not a bad deal - it is an error. Wirlo should repay.

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He should because it is the right thing to do, but he doesn't have to. And maybe the order mechanics could be reworked to help prevent some of the mistakes but in the end, this was an OP error and someone benefited. The fact that it isn't uncommon should be enough for mindark to rethink the auction system and revamp it or add additional safeguards.

However, any hope for repayment or correction is extinguished by the tone of the OP to the benefited party, apparently wirlo.. whether deserved or not.

If he does actually have all these alts, then they should all be banned.

So let's get this right, because Helena posted a very negative first post - his response was F**k you, I'm keeping the money? Class act that guy

gwit said:

So let's get this right, because Helena posted a very negative first post - his response was F**k you, I'm keeping the money? Class act that guy

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Now Helena is not a class act person..so I can see why. Karma is what it is...


Not the Reason: 2.13 - Scamming Accusation under Helenas post... That's not very nice.

Firstly he has every right to keep the funds if he wishes, all trades are final and you are responsible for your own mistakes.

Second if someone blows up and goes call you scammer, then what do you expect really?

Jon Moe Snow said:

mistakes.

Second if someone blows up and goes call you scammer, then what do you expect really?

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Well I guess that depends if you are a scammer or not. Any DECENT person would reverse the trade and give the money back. This is too much to lose. I am surprised that WSS would support this behaviour.

gwit said:

Well I guess that depends if you are a scammer or not. Any DECENT person would reverse the trade and give the money back. This is too much to lose. I am surprised that WSS would support this behaviour.

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yeah the gentlemanly thing to do is return the PED, but if he got accusations before having the chance, that would give you an attitude to keep it... but it should still be returned.

and lets not turn this into a WSS thread, 1 member has spoken against helena

I've had a good chuckle, so people are getting banned now....lol, the threads has got everything.

I think it's pretty 'lame' the bull excuse that the money would be refunded if it wasn't for the content of this thread.

All it took was a response to the thread confirming the money would be refunded and the whole thread would've taken a different direction of gratitude and forgiveness'.

It's still possible of course to resolve the whole situation, and I would be one of the first to congratulate the buyer regardless how long it took. Sometimes it takes a while to do the right thing.

It is a question of morality and ultimately the bigger picture is that this case could be damaging the game. Probably has already.

Rick

The only damage to the game is the drama from you people all bitching and moaning so hard about something that has absolutely nothing to do with any of you. This happens in all games, and the trades are final as in all games. If anything it will bring more people to come play hoping to get lucky.

Venture Bros said:

If anything it will bring more people to come play hoping to get lucky.

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I would rather the userbase get halved then welcome more people like that in game.

Venture Bros said:

The only damage to the game is the drama from you people all bitching and moaning so hard about something that has absolutely nothing to do with any of you. This happens in all games, and the trades are final as in all games. If anything it will bring more people to come play hoping to get lucky.

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I lost deeds the same way, it's still happening people are losing thousands of dollars to a system created for TT value items, not zero rated items.

This is happened so that MA hold zero ped liability on their balance sheet for all deeds, so you not only lose MU above the 1000 ped per CLD deed, but lose value of the original TT value as well.

So I guess if your mother got stabbed in the chest by some mugger while she was walking along the street, in your humble opinion no one should complain about it....because that's life...shit happens and it's none of other peoples business.

Community spirit is about standing together against actions that are wrong and immoral, regardless of some bull shit coding.

Rick

RickEngland said:

MA support responded.

Although their response came across quite sympathetic of the situation, they felt it would set a precedence with similar historical trades, should they intervene this time. They have declined to assist with reversing the trade.


I've given this a lot of thought today.

I have no idea how this will effect Helena's future direction within EU. Although we have another instance that someone that probably deposits has lost out to someone that likely rapes the system and doesn't deposit at all.

I don't think that is the best approach to protecting those that really matter to MA's future earnings.

Rick

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You know what comes in mind?
Remember the queue we had to buy the CLDs some years ago at 1150?
The MA guy traded someone a huge amount of CLDs for price of one or so. You know what I would have done after seen MA not being able to do a shit? Take the CLDs and tell MA "HAHA mother****, trades are final!"

We would then have seen some changes in the EULA I bet ...

TheRock said:

You know what comes in mind?
Remember the queue we had to buy the CLDs some years ago at 1150?
The MA guy traded someone a huge amount of CLDs for price of one or so. You know what I would have done after seen MA not being able to do a shit? Take the CLDs and tell MA "HAHA mother****, trades are final!"

We would then have seen some changes in the EULA I bet ...

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I heard a rumour the MA seller: "suggested it was in that avas interest to trade them back".

LOL!!!

I don't know how true that is, but it make me smile.

Then MA should lock Wirlo's account - for investigation reasons. Only when he decides that he has had enough of the investigation and paid the money back should his account be reopened !

This should not be allowed to drop.

gwit said:

Then MA should lock Wirlo's account - for investigation reasons. Only when he decides that he has had enough of the investigation and paid the money back should his account be reopened !

This should not be allowed to drop.

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Biggest problem of this "storm" , and xx number of different treads + a lot work for moderators is that there is only 10% of real truth about this accident.


This is very excellent example , how to destroy Mindark, or simple player reputation , by bringing up people , who do not even know what they are talking about.

+ Friends of Helena and his soc mates, who most active in this thread knows what i am talking about, but does not saying a word, because all situation would look way different than it is.


I hope, all calm down at firs, and people who does not know what is story about, don't act like crazy.
And all who Shout in this thread and know real story should be ashamed, because you potentially destroying Game reputation among forum community.


/mg Joda VVV VVV

And the most interesting point of all is that Wirlo - who has an account has decided to keep very quiet - and keep the money !

mg Joda VVV said:

Biggest problem of this "storm" , and xx number of different treads + a lot work for moderators is that there is only 10% of real truth about this accident.


This is very excellent example , how to destroy Mindark, or simple player reputation , by bringing up people , who do not even know what they are talking about.

+ Friends of Helena and his soc mates, who most active in this thread knows what i am talking about, but does not saying a word, because all situation would look way different than it is.


I hope, all calm down at firs, and people who does not know what is story about, don't act like crazy.
And all who Shout in this thread and know real story should be ashamed, because you potentially destroying Game reputation among forum community.


/mg Joda VVV VVV

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<removed>

Everything related to this incident was said in this thread, so stop spreading rumors please.

1. Helena did mistake and sold the CLDs to Wirlo through a low ball order

2. While negotiating with the trader, Helena became somewhat rude to Wirlo, which is not a surprise honestly, 3k$ lost and Wirlo was not really saying anything about him paying back, plus understand that we are all humans.. If you lose 3k$ and the other side is basically saying they won't give it back, you just become rude, this is pretty much natural.

3. During and after the incident, it came out Wirlo is actually known for manipulating market using several alt avatars, and clear evidence for that was found and is available on internet. (And link was posted in this thread)

4. It also came out Wirlo did the same mistake in the past and was paid back full amount. (something that makes this incident even more sad) (again, evidence is posted in this thread)

<removed>

gwit said:

Well I guess that depends if you are a scammer or not. Any DECENT person would reverse the trade and give the money back. This is too much to lose. I am surprised that WSS would support this behaviour.

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No, it doesnt. Not giving back money do NOT make you a scammer, its just not very nice. So it does NOT depend on if you are a scammer or not.

I Would probably offer to sell back in a case like this, but if someone started a thread calling me a thief, scammer and starting a shaming crusade in general I would NOT sell back.

This behavior is actually worse then keeping the money from a misstake sale, atleast in my book.


I do however not know any of these players, and dont know all the details either. So my input here should be taken as a general statement

What did it say in the confirmation window?

Oh, Maybe I forgot to say that I do understand how extremly bad this must feel for Helena Fra, and I understand that emotions can run wild.


And a question for all, Lets say the misstake wasnt to put items on auction, lets say you had forgot 30k peds in ores in your inventory when rearranging your storare and then left for another planet, was shoot down and looted.
Should the pirate then return it because its a misstake? It is pretty much the same thing, they wait for ppl to make misstakes and take advantage of them.

Roth said:

Oh, Maybe I forgot to say that I do understand how extremly bad this must feel for Helena Fra, and I understand that emotions can run wild.


And a question for all, Lets say the misstake wasnt to put items on auction, lets say you had forgot 30k peds in ores in your inventory when rearranging your storare and then left for another planet, was shoot down and looted.
Should the pirate then return it because its a misstake? It is pretty much the same thing, they wait for ppl to make misstakes and take advantage of them.

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I agree with this.

It's a matter of ethics in this case. Not a scam. There was no scam, and there was no rule violation.

Should MA perhaps put additional safeguards in? Maybe. I made a suggestion earlier on that and that's about as far as I'd like to see it go. I'm not in favor of an ever expanding nanny state. However issues involving severe markup deviation deserve a crosscheck on that and a subsequent are you sure alert.

For this particular trader, Wilco or Windex or Wompskut or whatever the hell their name is (I know it, I just dont really want to be part of the finger pointing crowd), its personal ethics, and yes they are muddied by this persons behavior.

So I would see it as an opportunity to gain some good faith with the entire community. After all, this person accused the individual of very bad behavior, and they did not do it. If they can still extend an olive branch, that can be a good mark for their service.

Depending on volume and on business outlook in general, that good mark can be worth the momentary cut in profit. More business could result from it in the future.

So there was no confirmation window or what?

Lorthis said:

So there was no confirmation window or what?

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There was. Just like there is a window on the forum that prohibits multiple postings. Yet somehow your post was duplicated.

I'm sure it was simply a mistake though. You wouldnt be intentionally producing spam.

PW3CKA said:

Specially you, with your bought avatar without MA approval (evidence is all over place, it's just enough to read your last ten posts and see the difference in english skills and writing style), should be the silent person here. But well, knowing you and many other bought avatars in your society, it is not a surprise to me you don't find anything wrong on Wirlo and can even publicly defend him.

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Maybe he is using a iPhone 6+ with auto correct that doesn't correct your spelling but make you seem like you have no knowledge of the English language.

Ok,

• I hope Helena gets refunded
• I hope the guy we all know profited gets a concience
• I hope this all gets resolved nicely

Forum rules forbid me from speaking more frankly, which is a bit of a shame.



You know what, he is still in game, next time it could be you or me.

I've only been around 9.5 years not 11.

Mega said:

Ok,

• I hope Helena gets refunded
• I hope the guy we all know profited gets a concience
• I hope this all gets resolved nicely

Forum rules forbid me from speaking more frankly, which is a bit of a shame.

You know what, he is still in game, next time it could be you or me.

I've only been around 9.5 years not 11.

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Yes i agree, make all Auction houses PVP

You know what's funny? I just watched a two parter movie called Madoff. Kind of reminds me of this situation.