Auction scumbags

gwit said:

The other response is that he has abused the system with the agreement of MA as it is their system and indeed they profit from auction sales.

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Pirates case. Multi applicable lol.
Agreement with Pirates, MA and mothership owners -profit from victim loot, profit from decay, oil and ammo shooting, profit from having customers to pay transport service with mothership.

addz said:

You could argue that everyone who messaged *he who shall not be named* has interfered with his ability to enjoy the auction system and has thus broken this rule and should get in trouble.

misinterpreting vague rules to fit your mindset is not intelligence, its ignorance


In all honesty I think its about time we let this witch hunt end

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It's easy to take the other side and say that now the "rule is vague" and now I am "ignorant" and "have misinterpreted the rule". When it is convenient, the rules are quoted and thrown on our faces to shut us up. When someone is making profit, then the rules are too vague to count. I always like to err on the side of what is ethical. Rules are supposed to be made to protect MA and the players who invest in the game = not the other way around. Your name calling doesn't change my mind about what is right and wrong.

gwit said:

...
I am staggered by the responses on this forum. The right way forward is for Wirlo to return the money - he has abused the auction system.
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The forum responds negatively to Helenas reaction, continuously breaking the forum rules and spouting accusations about scamming and worse.

If Helenas temper hadn't boiled over so much, I'm sure the sympathy from the forum would have been much more supporting and helpful.
Maybe even Wirlo would have been more forthcoming and agreed to refund a part of the peds.


However, I think nearly all of us understand why Helena is upset and angry.
I also think that few have any sympathy for that Wirlo guy, especially since he whined like crazy after his own mistake, and someone was nice enough to give him back his peds, though he had no right to get them back. (Like Helena hasn't now)

i dont think he abused the system.......................

you're blaming the player who benefited from someone else's mistake.....

clearly a mistake was made.........

no where does it state in the eula or in the auction house that the person who buys something on the auction house for any price even if someone makes a mistake are they responsible for returning said item(s)....

if you believe the auction house is broken.... and being used as an exploit tool... that is something you'd put a case in for mindark to resolve...

otherwise this person who inhereted on someone else's benefit is not in any violation.

if he is, please point me to the part of the eula or wherever mindark says we can possibly be in violation for placing orders on the auction house....

Actually it does:

"g. You may not use the Entropia Universe to engage in any misleading or deceptive activity.

You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others.

o. You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system."

More than happy to explain why I think the activity falls into one or other of the above.

gwit said:

Actually it does:

"g. You may not use the Entropia Universe to engage in any misleading or deceptive activity.

You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others.

o. You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system."

More than happy to explain why I think the activity falls into one or other of the above.

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i can't see how it falls into either of these points, ignoring the stories of alts and price fixing (as these are speculation not fact), all he did was post an offer for say 1600ped and Helena said here have mine for 260 (or whatever) he hasn't broken any rules, its a mistake and as i said before, the gentlemen thing to do is come to an arrangement to return most of the ped or maybe 19 of the 20 deeds, i know for a fact i couldn't sleep at night knowing what has happened

and while i know Helena can get a little hot-headed, seen in on these and cyrene forums, I would still return it, just the more aggresive she got the slower i'd take or the more damages i'd prefer to keep. I severly disagree with the sharing of RL infotho , that would probably have got a support case made.

Regardless, i hope it's sorted, and IF alts/price fixing is true, action is taken

Nevermind , I typed out an intelligent response to this issue , which is clearly out of place.

OK.

"You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system."

How much are CLDs?

How much did Wirlo pay for the CLD's?

gwit said:

OK.

"You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system."

How much are CLDs?

How much did Wirlo pay for the CLD's?

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but he was willing to pay way more than any other suitable offer, yeah its under MU thats how order work. The seller listed them for less, and the highest suitable offer paid the listed price. The buyer did nothing wrong, its how the system works. Yeah there is questions to be asked about the system, safeguards that could be put in place, and suggestions of been made (i like the idea of not stackable Deeds and warnings of large MU changes). but error can't solely be placed on Wirlo.

i know there is Offer leaches in there, offering +1 and stuff, but they should never win as there will be always more realistic offers

Billy Jean Ruby said:

At one case (Arkadia auction mistake), MA/PP contacted with me asking if I'm willing to return the money!
[/I]

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maybe a support case, phone call to MA should be made and see if they can help come to an arrangement, as they have above

RickEngland said:

Yeah this is pretty disgraceful



Rick

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mostly looks like they are only waisting money though, the higher mu orders of 400 and 500pcs should keep you safe from the 0.1pec orders as long as you dont post 500+ aud that is, unless im way of when it comes to have the order system works.

But I agree, just as Im not fond of spacepirates.

One way to solve this problem is to allow 5 minutes before an item is listed is purchased via auction orders. Most mistakes are noticed after its listed and because orders buy immediately you don't have any time to remove the item.

pontfirebird73 said:

One way to solve this problem is to allow 5 minutes before an item is listed is purchased via auction orders. Most mistakes are noticed after its listed and because orders buy immediately you don't have any time to remove the item.

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First actual suggestion I have seen in this thread that is good! + rep on that one.

RickEngland said:

Yeah this is pretty disgraceful



Rick

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Its ok, tho the game usually has gradual changes in the market and placing such massive orders are usually safe. If for some crazy reason Ark released more AUD that did not get released say a massive chunk and AUD hit a huge down trend in returns and this caused mass hysteria.

People would then be trying to off load them for anything they could before everyone else and the price could crash down back to 45 or lower as they used to be Before there was a recent surge/ up tick in AUD return that caused all this AUD fever to happen in the first place.

Im not saying that will happen but if something like that with AUD happened or the returns went back to near nothing then a lot of people will happily fill those huge orders for TT+1 and whoever is doing it will suffer great losses.

So let them feel safe and secure as many FAP owners did before the market crashed around them after EU made some small change.

30,000 orders for 50+1 (51 ped) - 5 ped (45 ped) (The going rate for AUD not but a few weeks ago)
= -75,000 PED or -7,500 USD / + =

I am new to the game and still learning about the rules. I agree the terms are rather vague. However I have no sympathy for people who make mistakes. I come from playing EVE -where deception and scams are actually encouraged and part of the game itself, and where mistakes are "your own fault and things you should learn from." The economy in EVE is very healthy and does not "break" because of these issues.

I can see this is a different game with different rules. Deception and scams in Entropia I can see are not allowed, and I think this is good because since it has RMT, victims will suffer a real loss, and this type of behaviour could have a negative impact on the game and community because it has RMT.

But as far as mistakes are concerned. In my opinion, since there is no deception involved and it is clear to traders to see what they are doing if they are paying attention, there is no unethical behaviour. If someone was to go to a boutique and buy something they know is worth a million dollars, for one dollar, is that unethical and should they be punished? I think not.

In trading you buy low and sell high to make a profit. Putting an arbitrary and artificial maximum margin traders are allowed to have would mean it is not a real economy.