Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them) - Part 2

In brief for the following reasons,
1. After long time considering this issue and also getting opinions of other fellow entropians (some are not participant in this or any forum at all).
2. Found my EP BP's as a good resource of residue and skilling in the meantime.
3. The opportunity of looting a number of BP's most of them I find usefull for my crafting profession.
4. I see the benefits of this BP's are more than negative results to the economy in long term, as far I'm concern.
5. and last one the declining of MU, is just an excuse of the majority of players. Most of them are killing MU themselves by poor decisions and marketing mistakes. Selling lower than the cost in many cases. Simply they "shooting their own leg" and then acusing MA!
I deside to remove my name from the supporters of this petition.

/OP pls delete my name from the list
thank you in advance


PS. In the bottom line you have to consider EP BP as an alternative of universal ammo for crafters
 
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Getting rid of exp bl will not resurrect crafting, and will not solve crafting issues. As sensible and intelligent people have already pointed out, there is no market for crafting items, apart from mining amps. This will NOT change if MA got rid of exp bp......there will STILL not be a market for crafted items.

The gamblers argument is also none-sensical. The vast majority of crafting gamblers, are only gambling crafting because of the exp bps. Get rid of the bps and you will get rid of most of the people crafting at the moment. When we didn't have the exp bps, the gamblers were mainly on level 2 amps. That is only one or two ores.

People need to wake up, the only real effect these bps have had is reduce metal residue to nearly tt. This has massively reduced the price of mining amps, which in effect has greatly increased the abundance of mining ores, and hence reduced ores markup.

As i have said before, get rid of residue, and in large part the different profs will return to how they were. Even mining has largely returned to pre-more expensive amps turnover days. As people have realized they can't make the easy profits that once were there as ores markups have crashed.

Make craftable limited items as good, or better, than unlimited items and markups will rise all round. There are sooooo many good unl-sib's now, and without a growing player base it is becoming massively over saturated.

If MA would just put out one BLOODY tv advert, then the player base would grow and the unlimited sib's would become rarer. % per population.

Rgds

Ace
 
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Getting rid of exp bl will not resurrect crafting, and will not solve crafting issues. As sensible and intelligent people have already pointed out, there is no market for crafting items, apart from mining amps. This will NOT change if MA got rid of exp bp......there will STILL not be a market for crafted items.

The gamblers argument is also none-sensical. The vast majority of crafting gamblers, are only gambling crafting because of the exp bps. Get rid of the bps and you will get rid of most of the people crafting at the moment. When we didn't have the exp bps, the gamblers were mainly on level 2 amps. That is only one or two ores.

People need to wake up, the only real effect these bps have had is reduce metal residue to nearly tt. This has massively reduced the price of mining amps, which in effect has greatly increased the abundance of mining ores, and hence reduced ores markup.

As i have said before, get rid of residue, and in large part the different profs will return to how they were. Even mining has largely returned to pre-more expensive amps turnover days. As people have realized they can't make the easy profits that once were there as ores markups have crashed.

Make craftable limited items as good, or better, than unlimited items and markups will rise all round. There are sooooo many good unl-sib's now, and without a growing player base it is becoming massively over saturated.

If MA would just put out one BLOODY tv advert, then the player base would grow and the unlimited sib's would become rarer. % per population.

Rgds

Ace


Rgds

Axe

Good post.

Not sure what the answer is tbh, but i would agree something needs doing to absorb the masses of residue produced. I signed petition but more for some change, not to remove the expl BP's (which lets face it won't happen anyway). My opinion is that expl IV was overkill, which looking at the HOF table for crafting each day you can see is unbalanced.

What you say about ul SIB's i would agree with, also population of EU, and that crafting needs some overhaul in some way to compete with looted, upgraded, mission reward weapons etc.

I just feel for the balancing guy/team, wouldn't like his job at the moment. :laugh:
 
I notice that those of you who have either changed your mind, or commented against removing EP blueprints from crafting--including respected & highly-experienced crafters like Auktuma--haven't said anything about how EP crafting is completely segregated from all other aspects of the game and is totally independent of all the other professions. How can you overlook this TINY little, essential fact?
 
It's just silly that crafters have such easy access to this high end gambling mini-game.

Explosive Projectiles are worth what? 101% at best? This is similar to lyst, melchi, caldorite, iron, garcen, etc, which are exactly the resources you will Tower/ATH on w/ a level 13 amp on FOMA.

Only... level 13 amps cost 130% markup, and you can't buy them at the TT.

Explain to me again how that's fair?
 
It's just silly that crafters have such easy access to this high end gambling mini-game.

Explosive Projectiles are worth what? 101% at best? This is similar to lyst, melchi, caldorite, iron, garcen, etc, which are exactly the resources you will Tower/ATH on w/ a level 13 amp on FOMA.

Only... level 13 amps cost 130% markup, and you can't buy them at the TT.

Explain to me again how that's fair?

I probably haven't got the question right or if it was addressed me, but is it you wish to have same abilities for gambling on mining (extend: on even hunt) same as Explosive Projectile crafting is providing? Well, it's for sure is off-topic on this thread.
Gamblers, on my view point, are very specific part of our community and they are not crafters, miners or hunters. They got their own specific goals. They are gamblers (or "gamblers"; I use quotes to mean just our local/subjective opinion, our reveal of activity or as well as to mean deeper goals what might be opposite to gambling, friendly care towards community). They pick this way on major not to serve community by offering product of their activity but their major wish, I mind, is to test if Lootius got uber good mood and will bring you ATH. Or another goal for gambling could be the wish to announce to community: "woohooo, I'm alive and functioning properly still... :D". Please don't read it offensive and read further words - I hope you will see my peace. There are many other aspects on why people pick the way they pick not opened freely to us. There are many who wish to force them to go open on their goals and if failed on that forcing - they express anger :(. I offer my peace and respect towards gamblers - on major cases that's their peaceful input and as well I have some smiley on me reading this input. At times I believe the input is subtle and deep. Showing alternative directions, accenting our faults, bringing up our negatives for ourself to analyze, teaching us of some things at times is carried by using so various forms, methods, tricks, hints. On teaching us to be tolerant, careful, peaceful, greedless, teaching to be active, brave, optimistic. Teaching to wake-up on our booring, whinner periods, wake-up to show robot style isn't the only in EU... Power for any community is variance and "gamblers" should have niche. Furthermore, I'm sure we have in our community "gamblers" on EP who have primary plans of service along with other of their goals on that activity (they rarely sell EP to TT, they sell residue in auction fairly priced. Few other signs). Several names known to me - +rep from me and respect.
Gambler <> "gambler".

But, hey, you wanna gambling on mining? Then do not try to kill gambling on craft, just because you are not crafter, but offer cool idea on your profession how it could be run, advertise it within community, work on modeling to become it attractive for majority.

Level 13 amplifiers has several positives: 1) I would say major is: it saves time for you on getting amounts of mined resources , 2) it brings fun of globaling/HOFing (=elements of gambling) - these are not comparable to EP gambling due to unique service on first listed option. For example, there were situations in my life in EU when I provided level 13 amps to miner requesting some specific non-rare resources quick on absence of needed amounts on market. My crafting/service was stuck. That mining wasn't efficient (I knew it wont be efficient), cost of resources was above market but at least I HAD it for my crafts. It's good to have ability in EU to realize principle - wanna save time - pay (mentioned above situation - I paid to save my time) and opposite situation - wanna save money - invest time ( etc. search for best buyer if you selling or best seller if you look to buy).

So, level 13 amplifiers on mining isn't correct to compare to EP crafting on condition using EP IV print. EP print always will bring just EP and residue, while mining with level 13 on various areas you will be getting different resources and we know that market on mined resources isn't stable - one day Ignisium is at 120% and next it hops to 160% (traders could bring many examples - they use fluctuations to extract profits). I know that some miners had constant profits some period on mining for pyrite at PVP areas, profit even after paying for level 13 amps above 130%. That means level 13 amplifiers could be used not just by gamblers ("gamblers") but also with intensions to serve community (if there is some higher markup on some resource - it means just one thing - community needs help on providing that resource, so, if you mine for it - you serve community).

Similar to EP craft gambling on mining should produce also 101% markup products and always. Etc to have switch on your finder for search of special "Gamblingots" (gambling you got). I would suggest it could be considered as replace for nanocubes on EP craft :D (EP IV?) - expecting for gamblers1 (miners) to have some communication with gamblers2 (crafters) [though gamblers on major are strong enough and could rarely seek for communication - communication is used when there is need of help, help to get material or non-material [etc. good mood, information]. Predict gambler will go for gamble on mining and then burn loot on craft, i.e. gambler1=gambler2. Internal "communication")

Above text was more off-topic for this thread. I wish to switch back to topic and second what I have posted before: if we wish to have more responsive markets for our loots we need to care about building stronger crafters community (they are servants who burn our loots to provide us what we need), need to care about allowing them to have skilling ability I mentioned before... And for sure after crafters got skills they should have space to realize it - they should have more wide assortment of blueprints for items with constant demand.
 
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I probably haven't got the question right or if it was addressed me, but is it you wish to have same abilities for gambling on mining (extend: on even hunt) same as Explosive Projectile crafting is providing? Well, it's for sure is off-topic on this thread.
Gamblers, on my view point, are very specific part of our community and they are not crafters, miners or hunters. They got their own specific goals in most these are different than service to community, they are gamblers. They pick this way on major not to serve community by offering product of their activity but their major wish, I mind, is to test if Lootius got uber good mood and will bring you ATH. Or another goal for gambling could be the wish to announce to community: "woohooo, I'm alive and functioning properly still... :D". Please don't read it offensive and read further words - I hope you will see my peace. There are many other aspects on why people pick the way they pick not opened freely to us. There are many who wish to force them to go open on their goals and if failed on that forcing - they express anger :(. I offer my peace and respect towards gamblers - on major cases that's their peaceful input and as well I have some smiley on me reading this input. At times I believe the input is subtle and deep. Showing alternative directions, accenting our faults, bringing up our negatives for ourself to analyze, teaching us of some things at times is carried by using so various forms, methods, tricks, hints. On teaching us to be tolerant, careful, peaceful, greedless, teaching to be active, brave, optimistic. Teaching to wake-up on our booring, whinner periods, wake-up to show robot style isn't the only in EU... Power for any community is variance and "gamblers" should have niche. Furthermore, I'm sure we have in our community "gamblers" on EP who have primary plans of service along with other of their goals on that activity (they rarely sell EP to TT, they sell residue in auction fairly priced. Few other signs). Several names known to me - +rep from me and respect.
Gambler <> "gambler".

But, hey, you wanna gambling on mining? Then do not try to kill gambling by craft, just because you are not crafter, but offer cool idea on your profession how it could be run, advertise it within community, work on modeling to become it attractive for majority.

Level 13 amplifiers has several positives: 1) I would say major is: it saves time for you on getting amounts of mined resources , 2) it brings fun of globaling/HOFing (=elements of gambling) - these are not comparable to EP gambling due to unique service on first listed option. For example, there were situations in my life in EU when I provided level 13 amps to miner requesting some specific non-rare resources quick on absence of needed amounts on market. My crafting/service was stuck. That mining wasn't efficient (I new it wont be efficient), cost of resources was above market but at least I HAD it for my crafts. It's good to have ability in EU to realize principle - wanna save time - pay (mentioned above situation - I paid to save my time) and opposite situation - wanna save money - invest time ( etc. search for best buyer if you selling or best seller if you look to buy).

So, level 13 amplifiers on mining isn't correct to compare to EP crafting on condition using EP IV print. EP print always will bring just EP and residue, while mining with level 13 on various areas you will be getting different resources and we know that market on mined resources isn't stable - one day Ignisium is at 120% and next it hops to 160% (traders could bring many examples - they use fluctuations to extract profits). I know that some miners had constant profits some period on mining for pyrite at PVP areas, profit even after paying for level 13 amps above 130%.

Similar to EP craft gambling on mining should produce also 101% markup products and always. Etc to have switch on your finder for search of special "Gamblingots". I would suggest it could be considered as replace for nanocubes on EP craft :D - expecting for gamblers to have some communication [though gamblers on major are strong enough and could rarely seek for communication - communication is used when there is need of help, help to get material or non-material [etc. good mood, information])

Above text was more off-topic for this thread. I wish to switch back to topic and second what I have posted before: if we wish to have more responsive markets for our loots we need to care about building stronger crafters community (they are servants who burn our loots to provide us what we need), need to care about allowing them to have skilling ability I mentioned before... And for sure after crafters got skills they should have space to realize it - they should have more wide assortment of blueprints for items with constant demand.

Was not directed at you at all auktuma. Just venting. Skill gains are very slow (practically zero) in mining when unamped. Big amps get progressively more expensive and progressively reduce your chances of looting some of the rarest resources. Just think it's unfair for crafters to have a zero mu skilling and gambling option when miners don't have any such thing. but you're right this is getting off topic.
 
Was not directed at you at all auktuma. Just venting.

My comment and question was directed at Auggie, and others who support EP crafting, and it still hasn't been addressed by any of them. ;)

How do you justify, economically and with regards to balancing, something that is completely isolated from every other profession and doesn't provide anything of use to them, nor require anything acquired/looted by them?
 
My comment and question was directed at Auggie, and others who support EP crafting, and it still hasn't been addressed by any of them. ;)

How do you justify, economically and with regards to balancing, something that is completely isolated from every other profession and doesn't provide anything of use to them, nor require anything acquired/looted by them?

All things from tt could be said the same arguably. .. let's make all ammo craft able not just explosives so more balance there will be. Remove tt too
 
My comment and question was directed at Auggie, and others who support EP crafting, and it still hasn't been addressed by any of them. ;)

How do you justify, economically and with regards to balancing, something that is completely isolated from every other profession and doesn't provide anything of use to them, nor require anything acquired/looted by them?

Forgive, please, I have looked to just last post this time :/ though one time before I spent much time and have read all posts here on this long thread in order to read all arguments. Your is probably very new about isolation of EP craft. I'm sure that economics and balancing aspects I have touched hard - crafter community should get strengthen and quick. EP craft even if is isolated it lets (I hope) skill to crafters at TT input. As for TT input there is no reason to discuss much if it should be TT loot or simply things from TT. Too few on this thread mentioned that hunters and miners had skilling at TT input all time (ammo, probes, repairs). Wasn't it killing supply/demand balancing due to infinite supply at TT, while crafters were balanced out of whole scheme and should have brekthrough markup input on their skilling. Or had it much logics to have skilling crafting by not performing crafting (= vehicle repair)? Too bad than not going too off-topic I could not descend into deeper details on economics and balancing due to the problems rised for us over time in media we live are not associated with EP or putting discussions could have risky impact to deepen polarity of community to more bad level than we have now. Talks on economics and balancing should go to understanding that crafter is major person on communication, direct and indirect, burning loots of miners and hunters and producing them some tools, gear on demand. So, let them skill at TT input. If you consider it is still slow skilling - fill petition to give them more rights on skilling, care to see balancing. Or kill profession and ask MA to introduce crafting on NPC instead, where you put your loot and get items, like it have seeds already...

You mention EP is isolated? Weren't hunters and miners crying all time that crafters should produce tools, gear cheaper. See what happened after fairly low priced metal residue - your order was filled - (L) items are cheaper. Just what was idea i think with EP craft: craft economy of L items consist of two parts - depends on major ingredients of craft listed on blueprints and the filler - residue, to get items at full TT. Price could not go down on product just of one component go cheaper (metal residue etc) in case if other component (main ingredients; = your loot) go up in price. We have effect due to 1) crafter community isnt strong (low count in compare to miner and hunter communites), 2) there are too few products crafters could produce with high demand.

You mention EP craft is isolated? Oh, right, crafting of basic filters and gazzilion of other prints for cheapest skilling for crafters were about production of stuff what not needed AT ALL. EP at least have some use.

It's blindness to force crafters on their skilling to feed not just miners and hunters (see also above mentioned for that), but also sweat gatherers asking to add sweat (18k% mu?) into skilling (?) recipes. Even if it will be just 1 sweat bottle it wont sound as fair principle. It could be fair just if hunter will be forced (hard to use that term for me) to use bullet+sweat bottle thrown to kill mob (we could joke it's not sweat it's new type Molotov cocktail), for miner similar scheme - probe+sweat bottle for better effect on mining... How you think why crafters community is lower. One of reasons due to unfair principles for skilling. Newcommers after testing craft pick mining or hunt where they could skill at TT input... Am I wrong now talking not about economy and balancing?

Final: EP craft should stay for same method as hunters and miners had - skilling at TT input. As for gamblers some of you dont like - just offer peace to them, be tolerant, they are representatives of bit different community but do not doubt they pay for their fun to you. Input into economy and balancing from them is positive...

sad auktuma :) But don't mention, it's ok, I know I represent minority. But I know major principle: life is good even if it is bad - there are always sparks of light to capture our attention and move. Forgive for my input.
 
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It's just silly that crafters have such easy access to this high end gambling mini-game.

Explosive Projectiles are worth what? 101% at best? This is similar to lyst, melchi, caldorite, iron, garcen, etc, which are exactly the resources you will Tower/ATH on w/ a level 13 amp on FOMA.

Only... level 13 amps cost 130% markup, and you can't buy them at the TT.

Explain to me again how that's fair?

Its fair because you can buy the blueprint and do exactly what they're doing. Everyone avatar is exactly the same, it's not like you chose and class at the beginning and now you're limited. You like the way those BPs work, cool, go and buy one yourself.

If everyone profession was exactly the same all the time, the game would probably suck.
 
Forgive, please, I have looked to just last post this time :/ though one time before I spent much time and have read all posts here on this long thread in order to read all arguments. Your is probably very new about isolation of EP craft. I'm sure that economics and balancing aspects I have touched hard - crafter community should get strengthen and quick. EP craft even if is isolated it lets (I hope) skill to crafters at TT input. As for TT input there is no reason to discuss much if it should be TT loot or simply things from TT. Too few on this thread mentioned that hunters and miners had skilling at TT input all time (ammo, probes, repairs). Wasn't it killing supply/demand balancing due to infinite supply at TT, while crafters were balanced out of whole scheme and should have brekthrough markup input on their skilling. Or had it much logics to have skilling crafting by not performing crafting (= vehicle repair)? Too bad than not going too off-topic I could not descend into deeper details on economics and balancing due to the problems rised for us over time in media we live are not associated with EP or putting discussions could have risky impact to deepen polarity of community to more bad level than we have now. Talks on economics and balancing should go to understanding that crafter is major person on communication, direct and indirect, burning loots of miners and hunters and producing them some tools, gear on demand. So, let them skill at TT input. If you consider it is still slow skilling - fill petition to give them more rights on skilling, care to see balancing. Or kill profession and ask MA to introduce crafting on NPC instead, where you put your loot and get items, like it have seeds already...

You mention EP is isolated? Weren't hunters and miners crying all time that crafters should produce tools, gear cheaper. See what happened after fairly low priced metal residue - your order was filled - (L) items are cheaper. Just what was idea i think with EP craft: craft economy of L items consist of two parts - depends on major ingredients of craft listed on blueprints and the filler - residue, to get items at full TT. Price could not go down on product just of one component go cheaper (metal residue etc) in case if other component (main ingredients; = your loot) go up in price. We have effect due to 1) crafter community isnt strong (low count in compare to miner and hunter communites), 2) there are too few products crafters could produce with high demand.

You mention EP craft is isolated? Oh, right, crafting of basic filters and gazzilion of other prints for cheapest skilling for crafters were about production of stuff what not needed AT ALL. EP at least have some use.

It's blindness to force crafters on their skilling to feed not just miners and hunters (see also above mentioned for that), but also sweat gatherers asking to add sweat (18k% mu?) into skilling (?) recipes. Even if it will be just 1 sweat bottle it wont sound as fair principle. It could be fair just if hunter will be forced (hard to use that term for me) to use bullet+sweat bottle thrown to kill mob (we could joke it's not sweat it's new type Molotov cocktail), for miner similar scheme - probe+sweat bottle for better effect on mining... How you think why crafters community is lower. One of reasons due to unfair principles for skilling. Newcommers after testing craft pick mining or hunt where they could skill at TT input... Am I wrong now talking not about economy and balancing?

Final: EP craft should stay for same method as hunters and miners had - skilling at TT input. As for gamblers some of you dont like - just offer peace to them, be tolerant, they are representatives of bit different community but do not doubt they pay for their fun to you. Input into economy and balancing from them is positive...

sad auktuma :) But don't mention, it's ok, I know I represent minority. But I know major principle: life is good even if it is bad - there are always sparks of light to capture our attention and move. Forgive for my input.

The point I think he was trying to make is that EP4 is kinda like if the TT sold mod merc and suprem armor. Its a fairly end game sorta BP and it run completely off the TT whereas all the high end mining and hunting gear is looted/crafted
 
The point I think he was trying to make is that EP4 is kinda like if the TT sold mod merc and suprem armor. Its a fairly end game sorta BP and it run completely off the TT whereas all the high end mining and hunting gear is looted/crafted

No, I think what he was saying is that miners & hunters can do their thing and skill up without paying any markup on their gear or ammo/probes. So why is it that crafters should be forced to pay markup to the miners/hunters in order to skill up?

The EP allows crafters the same opportunity that miners/hunters have had since the start of the game.
 
Forgive, please, I have looked to just last post this time :/ though one time before I spent much time and have read all posts here on this long thread in order to read all arguments. Your is probably very new about isolation of EP craft. I'm sure that economics and balancing aspects I have touched hard - crafter community should get strengthen and quick. EP craft even if is isolated it lets (I hope) skill to crafters at TT input. As for TT input there is no reason to discuss much if it should be TT loot or simply things from TT. Too few on this thread mentioned that hunters and miners had skilling at TT input all time (ammo, probes, repairs). Wasn't it killing supply/demand balancing due to infinite supply at TT, while crafters were balanced out of whole scheme and should have brekthrough markup input on their skilling. Or had it much logics to have skilling crafting by not performing crafting (= vehicle repair)? Too bad than not going too off-topic I could not descend into deeper details on economics and balancing due to the problems rised for us over time in media we live are not associated with EP or putting discussions could have risky impact to deepen polarity of community to more bad level than we have now. Talks on economics and balancing should go to understanding that crafter is major person on communication, direct and indirect, burning loots of miners and hunters and producing them some tools, gear on demand. So, let them skill at TT input. If you consider it is still slow skilling - fill petition to give them more rights on skilling, care to see balancing. Or kill profession and ask MA to introduce crafting on NPC instead, where you put your loot and get items, like it have seeds already...

You mention EP is isolated? Weren't hunters and miners crying all time that crafters should produce tools, gear cheaper. See what happened after fairly low priced metal residue - your order was filled - (L) items are cheaper. Just what was idea i think with EP craft: craft economy of L items consist of two parts - depends on major ingredients of craft listed on blueprints and the filler - residue, to get items at full TT. Price could not go down on product just of one component go cheaper (metal residue etc) in case if other component (main ingredients; = your loot) go up in price. We have effect due to 1) crafter community isnt strong (low count in compare to miner and hunter communites), 2) there are too few products crafters could produce with high demand.

You mention EP craft is isolated? Oh, right, crafting of basic filters and gazzilion of other prints for cheapest skilling for crafters were about production of stuff what not needed AT ALL. EP at least have some use.

It's blindness to force crafters on their skilling to feed not just miners and hunters (see also above mentioned for that), but also sweat gatherers asking to add sweat (18k% mu?) into skilling (?) recipes. Even if it will be just 1 sweat bottle it wont sound as fair principle. It could be fair just if hunter will be forced (hard to use that term for me) to use bullet+sweat bottle thrown to kill mob (we could joke it's not sweat it's new type Molotov cocktail), for miner similar scheme - probe+sweat bottle for better effect on mining... How you think why crafters community is lower. One of reasons due to unfair principles for skilling. Newcommers after testing craft pick mining or hunt where they could skill at TT input... Am I wrong now talking not about economy and balancing?

Final: EP craft should stay for same method as hunters and miners had - skilling at TT input. As for gamblers some of you dont like - just offer peace to them, be tolerant, they are representatives of bit different community but do not doubt they pay for their fun to you. Input into economy and balancing from them is positive...

sad auktuma :) But don't mention, it's ok, I know I represent minority. But I know major principle: life is good even if it is bad - there are always sparks of light to capture our attention and move. Forgive for my input.

Its nice to see your opinion on this, you are probably the biggest crafter all the time, and you have a solid understanding of the game.
It's also sad to see all kind of greedy players that only see that their mining resources have no markup because crafters don't buy them to craft useless things, just to sell to TT.
Crafting is broken, but as you said cheap metal residue is good for the game, the problem is that there is no demand for the items, mostly because MA released so many UL items.
 
No, I think what he was saying is that miners & hunters can do their thing and skill up without paying any markup on their gear or ammo/probes. So why is it that crafters should be forced to pay markup to the miners/hunters in order to skill up?

The EP allows crafters the same opportunity that miners/hunters have had since the start of the game.

Comparing Unamped mining and TT weapon skilling to EP IV is just silly. EP I, ok, sure.

Auktuma had the right idea, if they wanted to balance the scales, they would need to give miners a level 13 amp from the TT, but you can only find "Gamblingots".
 
EP crafting is NOT isolated from the community as the TT is a main part of the community. The problem is quite different - do the EP craft as a whole is at loss or at profit? Or another way said - does it sucks out the craft pool or add to it? If one crafter gets lucky and pockets 30k PED while 5 other lose 50k PED the EP craft is an welcome addition. But if it is the opposite OR if EP craft is detached at all from the craft pool and serves only to fill the MA coffers and possible provide income for the CLD then it should be removed.
 
Comparing Unamped mining and TT weapon skilling to EP IV is just silly. EP I, ok, sure.

Auktuma had the right idea, if they wanted to balance the scales, they would need to give miners a level 13 amp from the TT, but you can only find "Gamblingots".

buy tt weapon -> buy tt ammo -> skill up -> loot bigger weapon -> buy tt ammo -> skill up etc

buy tt ep bp -> buy tt nanocube -> skill up -> loot bigger bp -> buy tt nanocube -> skill up etc


Crafting and hunting are now on a more level playing field. Miners have the advantage to mine in monria style areas plus the advantage that, although smaller now, virtually everything they loot has a markup. Letting you drop lvl 13 amps for tt wouldn't be equal unless all you found was lyst/oil who's markup would quickly turn to nothing.

You can't demand that one play MUST pay you a markup so they can continue playing in their preferred profession. EP finally allows crafters to skill up at tt cost, what MA must do now is give the crafters an insentive to use the other bps.
 
No, I think what he was saying is that miners & hunters can do their thing and skill up without paying any markup on their gear or ammo/probes. So why is it that crafters should be forced to pay markup to the miners/hunters in order to skill up?

The EP allows crafters the same opportunity that miners/hunters have had since the start of the game.

Thanks, mate. Yes, exactly it was my major on-topic.

Its nice to see your opinion on this, you are probably the biggest crafter all the time, and you have a solid understanding of the game.
It's also sad to see all kind of players that only see that their mining resources have no markup because crafters don't buy them to craft useless things, just to sell to TT.
Crafting is broken, but as you said cheap metal residue is good for the game, the problem is that there is no demand for the items, mostly because MA released so many UL items.

UL weapons, amps, tools as well as recent rings, pets what are boosting our powers at just one time input to work for us infinite. With no hard investment of time to get to abilities (investment of time is major advertiser for media: skilling to get power, flow of goods after the activity, =communication, search of help). What is the result of that type of power input? You get to powerful enough to go solo, you lower communication (communicate just with Mr. Trade or Repair Terminals) and for sure that's influencing major spirit of communication in game. Supply-demand as a form of communication getting to broken. One of reasons why it (uL) is brought - It could be because of big fail on distribution of goods, big waste of time and funds (extracted from system by traders). That's no fun for majority of who wish to use media for fun making --> system of distribution is awfully balanced. ~2 years I was researching it by running shop on armors, you know, and using various forms of input on that research. It's off-topic here. Let me skip. I'm searching for respectful and fair dialog. To have respect your way you need to respect partner of dialog. If we will spank MA for not doing things we like, if we will try to command, force - that's I'm sure not best method, not respectful way. It looks more like guest comming to your room and after one-week long visit start commanding: "Bring the freezer to the corner at watersink! Paint this wall to red!". :D Again, please, offer peace, I just spawned some portion of black humour - with above I want to say we are colourful on our opinions and for the power of our community we need to model space for every habitant of media. Variance is flexibility for us, variance is power. Do not waste time on boosting ego of community.

The problem is quite different - do the EP craft as a whole is at loss or at profit? Or another way said - does it sucks out the craft pool or add to it? If one crafter gets lucky and pockets 30k PED while 5 other lose 50k PED the EP craft is an welcome addition. But if it is the opposite OR if EP craft is detached at all from the craft pool and serves only to fill the MA coffers and possible provide income for the CLD then it should be removed.

I could rephrase - if newcommer having no skills should get powers on very start to compete to old habitants with skills and experience? One truth should be advertised - if you wanna profit - offer respectful service to people who will pay you profits. Invest into skills to be able for service, skill up to grow quality and efficience of it, search for knowledge, experience. And pay for getting to that abilities... Economy of EP craft for sure is too complex to discuss on this thread - see we have very different interests on that activity. Gamblers, skillers on craft, service men, diggers for fun, adrenaline temporary injections... I'm sure media AI has complex measures how to divide input into various portions and it isn't constant in time. It's off-topic. I see major should be with EP craft is skilling and furthermore I see fair if for skilling there will be investment. I very hope that these skills wont get dusty due to no prints offered for skilled crafters (mid skilled or top skilled - I try to consider all participants of media to have their space proportional to service they do).

Within harmonic organism stomach should not seek to win against kidney - on loss of any of two whole organism will die... For me EU is an organism not excluding MA in it with valuable functions.
Adding smiley --> I play role of nail on hallux of right foot, to help organism keep vertical when needed :)
 
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Make craftable limited items as good, or better, than unlimited items and markups will rise all round.
Ace

That's probably the main thing to be corrected - resulting in competable (L), not just slightly better, but adjusted to serve all sides. More of CRAFTED (L) items VALUED by community would have adjusted prices on looted resources as well as on metal residue. It's high meaning to have residue (secondary/side product of craft it is) on craft at low markup level. Accent on crafting of L items should not be on filler component but on main ingredients of craft. Solution could be by adjusting stats on existing L items or prints to craft it or by releasing package of new crafted L items balanced well on stats, craft recipes and skill requirements. Balanced the way that people who cared to invest time and funds into skilling would have had reasons to go for skilling, i.e. get higher abilities after higher skill. Activity should be respected and rewarded. Shame what situation is on weapon craft atm etc - top blueprints are locked due to lack of some rare resources or there is no/low demand on crafted top guns. Top crafters should be offered service where is top demand for product.


(not EP prints are evil and causing problems you have risen)
 
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crafting should use raw materials gathered by the other professions to craft products used by the other professions (and themselves). there is no way around this simple principle, no matter how much you drown the reader in floods of text
 
crafting should use raw materials gathered by the other professions to craft products used by the other professions (and themselves). there is no way around this simple principle, no matter how much you drown the reader in floods of text

Why? This is not the real world, lol.


Rgds

Ace
 
"Im happy to tt most of my ores, it is fun and save time ..." No, that was just a bad jocke, but since we have explo crafting, Most MU at ores are down. Also the rare ones and a bit rare ones, like Kanerium are just TT food, except you get a larger amount. But not all miners can save all the ores and wait of the day, the MU is a bit higher, or the amount large enought. If you ask me, the whole game is more as bad balanced. Too many items are around, and too many of those items are just tt food.

It seems, that MA don't like, if we get some small MU some times, about one player could make profit, and then don't depo for long. Soon we can just pay MA and get noting.. May thats the way they want have? EU never was that bad. like it is since the last 6 months.

We also can't sell out skills, about no much ESI get droped, and most you can't find more as 1 page with Esi at auction. Dunno, but I lost most of my fun to play EU. It feels too greedy now.
 
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I will sign

Zeneth Zenzile Kael
 
List got updated , keep thread clean or will be forced to ask moderator to delate your post
 
Sorry gents, it's not fair to equate hunting/mining/other crafting to EP crafting. When you mine or hunt, you require items THAT DECAY. You DON'T merely buy stuff from TT and use it up until it's gone! How is that equivalent to EP crafting? Sure, all 3 professions require stuff purchased from the TT, but ONLY in the case of EP crafting, no decay is incurred. In all other forms of crafting, something equivalent to decay is incurred due to the purchase of materials that have markup.

Looking forward to your responses to this. :cool:

No amount of verbiage will convince me that EP crafting, in its current state, links EP crafters with ANY other profession. You don't need anything we loot or mine, and with bazillions of EPs being crafted, the market for that product is profoundly flooded, thus the demand is nil.
 
And your decay can be repaired at TT price.
 
Put me on that list, EP BP's take away from playing the actual game... It turned crafting in to (No I dont need to craft items anymore I'll just setup a EP BP for 5000 clicks and walk away.) Kills the economy for hunting mats and mining mats.

Chris Tasoner Labrie
 
You put my namne at 2 places No 11 and No 218.
 
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