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  1. #1
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    Warning to item buyers - The Eco Safeguard

    First, I want to say that I don't blame Arkadia. I blame mindark for not letting players know this exists and preventing them from falling into a trap. They are not going to change items and I respect that. What I don't respect is that accommodations were not made when they did that with Mod merc.

    As you know, the improved manta and improved mako fal do not take eco enhancers nor will it take any amp that improves the eco of the sword. In this case, the improved mako fal takes the mod 8 amp but when you equip it, it says: cannot execute, please try again later. To the hunter, this just seems like a bug or a temporary situation. However, it is not.

    There is an eco safeguard on weapons to prevent them from being too eco. This leads me to believe that dpp is not as meaningful as we really thought. I'm sure the imk2 got grandfathered but amps don't improve the eco just reduces it less. We also know swords behave differently than guns because there is no ammo.

    This does not just impact these two swords, this same behavior applies to some toulan guns that cannot be used right now or perhaps ever. I feel as if I have been misled when buying the mod 8 amp. It was a gamble knowing that it was a problem but one would think they would produce an error that would prevent unnecessary purchases.

    So.. be warned. It took 6 months of pleading and about your support cases to get this response. Only arkadia would listen and I thank them for that. The support cases were constantly closed telling me about next island swords and were irrelevant.

    I got confirmation from mindark today that nothing will be done. My recommendation was to either swap the amp or allow for the eco overage to be applied to skills. But in the end, they said.. tough cookies.

  2. #2
    Elite girtsn's Avatar
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    no combination of items should be disallowed because it is "too eco"...
    unless it is very clearly described in the item description as from the release of the item
    P.S.
    "I'm sure the imk2 got grandfathered but amps don't improve the eco just reduces it less."
    Disagree, this is not a matter of speculation just an easy calculation, dpp is easy - equip h204, shoot with imk2 + amp, measure dpp on both

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by girtsn View Post
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    no combination of items should be disallowed because it is "too eco"...
    unless it is very clearly described in the item description as from the release of the item
    I agree and that was my argument. But it's there. I know why the safeguard exists.. because of a pp deciding to develop a 9dpp ram. But I think the failure to let others know it exists is extremely shady.

    To imk2, all amps reduce eco on the imk2. The catch here is that it can take eco enhancers so.. it seems to be unaffected by the same safeguard.

  4. #4
    Old Alpha Ace Flyster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    We also know swords behave differently than guns because there is no ammo.
    No proof of this, unless you have info from MA?


    Rgds

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Flyster View Post
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    No proof of this, unless you have info from MA?


    Rgds

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    They have to behave differently because there is no ammo. But, it is an irrelevant point to the greater issue.

    This is not a rage thread. I'm simply letting everyone know of the conclusion of my dillemma and something that is in the game that shouldn't be... and mindark is being silent on.

  6. #6
    Old Alpha Ace Flyster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    They have to behave differently because there is no ammo. But, it is an irrelevant point to the greater issue.
    They don't 'have' to behave differently. (just saying)

    People have argued for years about no ammo melee.....based on NOTHING.


    Rgds

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Flyster View Post
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    They don't 'have' to behave differently. (just saying)

    People have argued for years about no ammo melee.....based on NOTHING.


    Rgds

    Ace
    I will concede the point just because it's not really relevant to the problem. I don't want to get into my loot patterns from all my configurations right now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    I will concede the point just because it's not really relevant to the problem. I don't want to get into my loot patterns from all my configurations right now.
    Fair enough, let the conversation continue....(I still would bet my left leg, there is no proof, as it's cost of click, melee = decay of item, guns = decay of gun + ammo,)


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    There is an eco safeguard on weapons to prevent them from being too eco. [...] I'm sure the imk2 got grandfathered but amps don't improve the eco just reduces it less.
    Once Upon a Time on the Planet Far Far Away there was this guy called Post who decided to jump the gun and created a craftable sword with 3.00 DPP. He said u have to let it go or otherwise I will ragequit and just let my Planet die!

    As a result the economy on NI was booming for a while, many swords were crafted and it was a really gravy train for the crafters who managed to get on the bandwagon.
    MA realized what had happened and behold, it wasn't good! So they shut down the key ingredients for the Archon BP and most likely implemented this global eco safeguard as well.

    Well, I don't know for sure ofc but it would make sense, right?

    I remember Kim once said these uber toys (modmerc, imk2, modfap) were a mistake in the 1st place. I don't think he was expressing just his personal opinion there... Ofc MA can't take em back or quietly nerf em down, just like that. Ppl have invested a lot in those toys. Obviously MA is out of options there. They had to grandfather this status quo even if they don't like it at all...

    Now, to have a few super eco weapons is one thing. Half the playerbase running around with 3 DPP gear - that would take it to another level entirely.
    I mean, this is a zero-sum game afterall. Increased eco on a massive scale would end up with increasing the average eco requirement. If this happens it effectively nerfs all those ancient grandfathered uber toys on one hand (and seriously undermining the trust in MA as a result). On the other hand it would push the lower end of the eco ladder below any acceptable return ratio.

    In short, the results would be catastrophic...


    I didn't quite understand the part with "the amps don't improve the eco" thou? Could u elaborate that one, please?
    Same for that one:
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    This leads me to believe that dpp is not as meaningful as we really thought.
    If I understand u correctly, u saying the eco mechanism doesn't work exactly as we have believed it works?
    Do u mean the entire formula is incorrect (like, missing a variable or sth)? Or maybe u referring to a specific situation, like calculating eco when using unmaxed weapon?
    ► Fifth's

  10. #10
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    Amps donot increase eco of guns like imk2. It's one of the only guns that operate that way. Amps absorb decay to usually improve eco. Damage enhancers increase eco on imk2, excluding markup. Same situation.

    For all other items, this is inversely true.

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