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Changing the EP4 BP

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Me Really Never

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I would like to know what MA's thoughts about a change of the EP4 BP are. There are a lot of threads about petition to change or remove it with hundreds of people signing it but there is no statement of any kind from MA. I mean it is obvious that this BP destroyed the economy all alone and this "dynamic" game soon will have a full ATH Board with only EP4 entries in it. It is time to stop that and get this game versatile again. Give Miners and crafter a chance again to get the economy going again and lead the whole playerbase back into a golden age. It is time to admit that this blueprint was a mistake that has driven all profession far away from each other rather than getting em closer to each other... which has been the main goal of Project Entropia iirc.
 
Me Really Never said:
EP4
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It has taken F1 not even 24 hrs to admit the new qualifying was a mistake and revert to last season's rules.
As F1's growing incompetence - in my opinion - has been a sort of RL comparison of duh! with MA, will MA finally get some things right from now on?
 
Me Really Never said:
I would like to know what MA's thoughts about a change of the EP4 BP are. There are a lot of threads about petition to change or remove it with hundreds of people signing it but there is no statement of any kind from MA. I mean it is obvious that this BP destroyed the economy all alone and this "dynamic" game soon will have a full ATH Board with only EP4 entries in it. It is time to stop that and get this game versatile again. Give Miners and crafter a chance again to get the economy going again and lead the whole playerbase back into a golden age. It is time to admit that this blueprint was a mistake that has driven all profession far away from each other rather than getting em closer to each other... which has been the main goal of Project Entropia iirc.
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I think that you dont know what are you talking. MA earn a lot of money on those BPs. Im talking about PURE PEDS, not some small cash like from auction fees, Im talking about real money. How? its simple. You need only BP and stuff from TT and owners of TT is MA so players are buing Cubes from them, crafting and almost always putting expl into tt, from crafting you get like 90% of returns? So if daily people are buying 1000k peds of cubes and after that giving back to tt 900k ped of expl so thats gices you 10k $ in cash to MA. SO tell me, you thing that they remove it from game? :)
 
Simple fix.

Material costs, 20% of each:

1) Any animal oil (not residue) - 4 PED/click
2) Any robot part - 4 PED/click
3) Any Ore - 4 PED/click
4) Any EnMatter - 4 PED/click
5) Any Residue - 4 PED/click

Not only can people gamble, but suddenly mining, crafting and hunting are profitable on the backs of gamblers.
 
Iceman2003 said:
I think that you dont know what are you talking. MA earn a lot of money on those BPs. Im talking about PURE PEDS, not some small cash like from auction fees, Im talking about real money. How? its simple. You need only BP and stuff from TT and owners of TT is MA so players are buing Cubes from them, crafting and almost always putting expl into tt, from crafting you get like 90% of returns? So if daily people are buying 1000k peds of cubes and after that giving back to tt 900k ped of expl so thats gices you 10k $ in cash to MA. SO tell me, you thing that they remove it from game? :)
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Doesn't work that way. Premise is sort of there but there is not a 10% rake.
 
Iceman2003 said:
I think that you dont know what are you talking. MA earn a lot of money on those BPs. Im talking about PURE PEDS, not some small cash like from auction fees, Im talking about real money. How? its simple. You need only BP and stuff from TT and owners of TT is MA so players are buing Cubes from them, crafting and almost always putting expl into tt, from crafting you get like 90% of returns? So if daily people are buying 1000k peds of cubes and after that giving back to tt 900k ped of expl so thats gices you 10k $ in cash to MA. SO tell me, you thing that they remove it from game? :)
Click to expand...

Sure it's easy money for MA, it's low-hanging fruit. The flipside is it has destroyed much of the economy, the interaction between the different professions (mining, hunting and crafting anything OTHER than EP's), and the predictable HOF charts are certainly not too motivating for any of these professions to continue investing in the game...so it does a pretty good job of shooting MA's self in the foot, too.

EP crafting has attracted a totally new kind of player to what used to be a wonderfully immersive, interactive game: the dive-bar VLT (video lottery terminal) player. The person who wants to do nothing but feed coins into a machine for hours on end and hope for a jackpot. There's zero interaction with anybody else in the bar. There's zero real gameplay value. People can say "But you're getting skills"; indeed you may be, but there's no gameplay whatsoever. No need to acquire resources gathered by other professions to construct something different. No need to do ANYTHING but buy nanocubes from TT and feed the VLT. No need to aim, shoot, adventure, drop bombs, avoid dangerous mobs, talk with any other avatar...nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

Good job, MA. Glad you're making money on this "totally shit idea" (quote from "28 Days Later").
 
I guess easiest way to change them would be to use shrapnel instead of nanocubes as ingredient, shrapnel would stay low mark up due to amount created.
 
Norbert said:
I guess easiest way to change them would be to use shrapnel instead of nanocubes as ingredient, shrapnel would stay low mark up due to amount created.
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My thoughts on this... First. I have one. That's out of the way... This BP has broken the game. Period. However, they can't just remove it without screwing a lot of people out of a lot of money. Now, I'd be fine if they removed it as long I was compensated what I paid for it + 20 ped per BPQ gain it has on it. ROFL. Like that'll happen...

However, additional ingredients added would be a decent solution to the problem this BP has created. Sort of...

You might get four or five things that get increased MU while the MU on everything else will still suck and continue to get worse. Face it, MA broke the economy real good.
 
Ape Drape said:
My thoughts on this... First. I have one. That's out of the way... This BP has broken the game. Period. However, they can't just remove it without screwing a lot of people out of a lot of money. Now, I'd be fine if they removed it as long I was compensated what I paid for it + 20 ped per BPQ gain it has on it. ROFL. Like that'll happen...

However, additional ingredients added would be a decent solution to the problem this BP has created. Sort of...

You might get four or five things that get increased MU while the MU on everything else will still suck and continue to get worse. Face it, MA broke the economy real good.
Click to expand...

Yes, which is why it should be types of loot, to help establish a floor on items.

There is another game that did this to all "herbs" for a given profession, and suddenly there was a floor at which all herbs were at least that valuable, make some previously unused herbs have value again.

The same could be done with oils, or residues, or ores, etc.
 
simple fix: leave things alone as they are, BUT remove the ability to sell any ammo of any kind to the TT, unless perhaps you create an option to convert it in to universal ammo in the process. Blammo, all that crafted ammo suddenly needs to go in to hunting, problem solved. Do it for all ammo, not just explosives, so that those that actually use explosives to hunt are not being unbalanced vs other types of hunters out there. Maybe make it possible to convert to some sort of 'universal probe' too which you cannot tt.

Also, as mentioned in the other threads, remove all lootable 'items' from hunting loot and move them in to crafting loots. Just leave stackable stuff as what can be mined or hunted. All 'items' should be crafted from that stackable stuff, giving the stackable stuff a reason to be purchased. That alone would create a need for more crafting, at least short term, as the incentive to find some useable bps in crafting loot would suddenly exist.
 
mastermesh said:
simple fix: leave things alone as they are, BUT remove the ability to sell any ammo of any kind to the TT, unless perhaps you create an option to convert it in to universal ammo in the process. Blammo, all that crafted ammo suddenly needs to go in to hunting, problem solved. Do it for all ammo, not just explosives, so that those that actually use explosives to hunt are not being unbalanced vs other types of hunters out there. Maybe make it possible to convert to some sort of 'universal probe' too which you cannot tt.

Also, as mentioned in the other threads, remove all lootable 'items' from hunting loot and move them in to crafting loots. Just leave stackable stuff as what can be mined or hunted. All 'items' should be crafted from that stackable stuff, giving the stackable stuff a reason to be purchased. That alone would create a need for more crafting, at least short term, as the incentive to find some useable bps in crafting loot would suddenly exist.
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Think real hard about what you proposed.... Make ammo non TTable? I really don't shoot BLP so what do I do if I screwed up and bought BLP instead of Cells or SynthME? Go buy a blp gun and hunt stuff that I don't want to hunt with gear I don't want to use? What do I do with that BLP ammo I looted? Now I'm forced to use it? So I get to whittle my returns down to 10% because MA thinks I want 50% of my loot to be ammo? Horrible idea.

Remove items from loot? I would not bother with hunting if there's no hope of anything nice ever dropping and all I really will get is shrapnel and ammo, that you want me to have to use up until I have nothing left. Bad ideas. I wouldn't even go for that in a Free non-RCE game.
 
Ape Drape said:
Bad ideas. I wouldn't even go for that in a Free non-RCE game.
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and you think any proposals made to remove or change ep bp is any different from a crafter's perspective?

Ape Drape said:
I really don't shoot BLP so what do I do if I screwed up and bought BLP instead of Cells or SynthME?
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Think real hard, and don't 'screw up.'
 
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mastermesh said:
simple fix: leave things alone as they are, BUT remove the ability to sell any ammo of any kind to the TT, unless perhaps you create an option to convert it in to universal ammo in the process. Blammo, all that crafted ammo suddenly needs to go in to hunting, problem solved. Do it for all ammo, not just explosives, so that those that actually use explosives to hunt are not being unbalanced vs other types of hunters out there. Maybe make it possible to convert to some sort of 'universal probe' too which you cannot tt.

Also, as mentioned in the other threads, remove all lootable 'items' from hunting loot and move them in to crafting loots. Just leave stackable stuff as what can be mined or hunted. All 'items' should be crafted from that stackable stuff, giving the stackable stuff a reason to be purchased. That alone would create a need for more crafting, at least short term, as the incentive to find some useable bps in crafting loot would suddenly exist.
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Do you even play the game or just love to troll others here
 
The EU economy has been broken for a long time. Certainly since I started playing, just after VU10, and almost certainly longer than that. The introduction of EP BPs might be the first step toward repairing it. The model has always been hunters and miners gather mats for crafters to use to manufacture equipment for miners and hunters to gather mats and so on. The reality has been that hunters and miners gather mats for crafters to use to gamble. Of course, there were some real items being crafted for players, but just how many Dino Shoes and Abrer Sights did the playerbase need? It was always about gambling.

So for years, avatars skilled and acquired high end equipment so that they could more efficiently feed the gamblers, not to participate in any deeper economy. That was the extent of the economic interaction between the three professions. The entire EU economy was driven by speculation.

Then MA introduced EP BPs, and the effect has been to isolate the big speculators from the rest of the economy. Gamblers can gamble, and crafters can craft, and MU is falling back to what it is supposed to be, driven by in-game demand for crafted items rather than being artificial accelerated. This has slowed down the in-game economy, which was needed -- an overheated economy is unsustainable over any kind of long run. I hope that this was MA's plan, and the outcome was what they wanted, and not coincidental. It seems to fit with the other things they have been doing to -- hopefully -- grow the playerbase, stabilize the economy, and rebalance crafting and the loot-tables.
 
mastermesh said:
simple fix: leave things alone as they are, BUT remove the ability to sell any ammo of any kind to the TT, unless perhaps you create an option to convert it in to universal ammo in the process. Blammo, all that crafted ammo suddenly needs to go in to hunting, problem solved. Do it for all ammo, not just explosives, so that those that actually use explosives to hunt are not being unbalanced vs other types of hunters out there. Maybe make it possible to convert to some sort of 'universal probe' too which you cannot tt.

Also, as mentioned in the other threads, remove all lootable 'items' from hunting loot and move them in to crafting loots. Just leave stackable stuff as what can be mined or hunted. All 'items' should be crafted from that stackable stuff, giving the stackable stuff a reason to be purchased. That alone would create a need for more crafting, at least short term, as the incentive to find some useable bps in crafting loot would suddenly exist.
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I disagree with the statement of you and others that looted 'items' should be removed from hunting loots, as it would affect crafting. Crafting was going just fine for a DECADE with items in hunting loots. It's not the fault of items in loots causing the woes of crafters, it's the EP crafting itself. When nearly all the globals & HOFs are happening only for EP crafters, and their gains are a useless commodity that nobody needs, and to craft EP's requires nothing that others have, this is what breaks down everything else.
 
mastermesh said:
simple fix: leave things alone as they are, BUT remove the ability to sell any ammo of any kind to the TT, unless perhaps you create an option to convert it in to universal ammo in the process. Blammo, all that crafted ammo suddenly needs to go in to hunting, problem solved. Do it for all ammo, not just explosives, so that those that actually use explosives to hunt are not being unbalanced vs other types of hunters out there. Maybe make it possible to convert to some sort of 'universal probe' too which you cannot tt.

Also, as mentioned in the other threads, remove all lootable 'items' from hunting loot and move them in to crafting loots. Just leave stackable stuff as what can be mined or hunted. All 'items' should be crafted from that stackable stuff, giving the stackable stuff a reason to be purchased. That alone would create a need for more crafting, at least short term, as the incentive to find some useable bps in crafting loot would suddenly exist.
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I would quit the game.
 
Avon(AJ)Jerrix said:
The EU economy has been broken for a long time. Certainly since I started playing, just after VU10, and almost certainly longer than that. The introduction of EP BPs might be the first step toward repairing it. The model has always been hunters and miners gather mats for crafters to use to manufacture equipment for miners and hunters to gather mats and so on. The reality has been that hunters and miners gather mats for crafters to use to gamble. Of course, there were some real items being crafted for players, but just how many Dino Shoes and Abrer Sights did the playerbase need? It was always about gambling.

So for years, avatars skilled and acquired high end equipment so that they could more efficiently feed the gamblers, not to participate in any deeper economy. That was the extent of the economic interaction between the three professions. The entire EU economy was driven by speculation.

Then MA introduced EP BPs, and the effect has been to isolate the big speculators from the rest of the economy. Gamblers can gamble, and crafters can craft, and MU is falling back to what it is supposed to be, driven by in-game demand for crafted items rather than being artificial accelerated. This has slowed down the in-game economy, which was needed -- an overheated economy is unsustainable over any kind of long run. I hope that this was MA's plan, and the outcome was what they wanted, and not coincidental. It seems to fit with the other things they have been doing to -- hopefully -- grow the playerbase, stabilize the economy, and rebalance crafting and the loot-tables.
Click to expand...

Finally someone with a clear vision on this forum!

MA only need to create a demand for crafted items and markup will go up, however I don't really understand how that can happen with all these rains of UL items that MA throw at us.
 
combo22 said:
Finally someone with a clear vision on this forum!

MA only need to create a demand for crafted items and markup will go up, however I don't really understand how that can happen with all these rains of UL items that MA throw at us.
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It's nice to compliment someone, but I wouldn't want to confuse a clear vision with actually heading in the right direction.
In part you are right that loads of crafted items are simply not in demand, but the EP situation has also lowered residue values and a willingness to craft BPs on crafting chains. I don't think the mus on some of the better crafted (L) items was too high in the first place. Lowering the cost to make them by reducing mat and residue costs has squeezed out the semi-useful BPs as well now. Thus, even fewer BPs are worthwhile and this reduces the crafting range further and further. That's a wrong direction in my opinion.

We now also have the upgrading of unl stuff using various mats, and this bypasses crafting altogether it seems (unless I'm missing knowledge of ingredients which are crafted...).
Maybe MA wanted to break apart the connections between professions, but I view it as a bad move to break up circles of productive activity in the ways we have recently seen.

Personally, I'd like to see a change to the BP ingredients, possibly grouping together some of the mats (conversion via refiner maybe), or having various parallel BPs which can produce the same results. I would be sure to try and provide some kind of settlement to EP owners if they get nerfed, however; trust is low enough as it is, we don't need to damage it more...
 
combo22 said:
Finally someone with a clear vision on this forum!

MA only need to create a demand for crafted items and markup will go up, however I don't really understand how that can happen with all these rains of UL items that MA throw at us.
Click to expand...

Totally flawed logic. Re-read your own sentence: "MA only need to create a demand for crafted items and markup will go up" and you see the flaw. Almost NOBODY is crafting ITEMS, they're crafting EP's!! Look at the Globals and HOF lists lately, how many crafting globes/HOFs are for items OTHER than EP's?? How do you create a demand for crafted items--WHEN NOBODY IS CRAFTING ITEMS!?!

"Rains of UL items"?? Are you serious?! Surely you jest!
 
So the popular belief seems to be that gamblers who now are happily clicking away on the explo BPs were the true engine of the game economy? They were the magical little hamsters running in the wheel. Who let em run away dammit! Go catch em, cram em back into the wheel NOW!

So everything is simple really. To make all our problems go away all we have to do is to force em to pay us markup for our loot. Stackables, enmatter, ores and basic creafting components will once again have decent markup!
They will be used to craft guns and swords and armors and all sorts of useful things!

O wait. Not really. We don't want to pay high markup to buy a crafted gun. We want em cheap. On a second thought, we don't want to buy em at all. We want em unlimited and we want to loot em ourselves!
Right.. Scrap the last part. Let em just pay for our loot, we don't really needs the 3 main professions to be tied up and be so dependent on each other.

Or do we?

You do realize those are 2 completely different problems, right? Exploiting the gamblers "for the greater good of the society" and creating a working economy based on demand and supply?
 
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Fifth said:
So the popular belief seems to be that gamblers who now are happily clicking away on the explo BPs were the true engine of the game economy? They were the magical little hamsters running in the wheel. Who let em run away dammit! Go catch em, cram em back into the wheel NOW!

So everything is simple really. To make all our problems go away all we have to do is to force em to pay us markup for our loot. Stackables, enmatter, ores and basic creafting components will once again have decent markup!
They will be used to craft guns and swords and armors and all sorts of useful things!

O wait. Not really. We don't want to pay high markup to buy a crafted gun. We want em cheap. On a second thought, we don't want to buy em at all. We want em unlimited and we want to loot em ourselves!
Right.. Scrap the last part. Let em just pay for our loot, we don't really needs the 3 main professions to be tied up and be so dependent on each other.

Or do we?

You do realize those are 2 completely different problems, right? Exploiting the gamblers "for the greater good of the society" and creating a working economy based on demand and supply?
Click to expand...

well. i would like to pay higher markup for crafted stuff. when my own stuff has the possibility to get sold at an amount that offers me to make profit on my profession i would have the possibility to buy stuff at higher MU. its the same in the real world. if the job payment doesnt rise while everything else gets more expensive my power to buy stuff lowers. that means most of the people cant buy stuff that costs much so they want lower prices. if they get a raise they are happily spending more money on more expensive stuff. the same applies for this game. give the people more money to spend and they will spend it. imo limited guns and armors shouldnt be looted though as this destroys the market for the crafters. some of the rare UL stuff is fine as its rare but you get spammed with limited stuff while hunting so there is no need for crafters to actually craft something. remove limited stuff from loottable and crafters would have a job again. there are really a lot of ways to actually activate the economy again but it will be a big move and i am sad that MA wont have the balls to do something like this. if they want to continue the line of doing things like they do now they can even release 3 different games for each profession so they finally cut the connection between all 3 completely... then they got their hunting game like hundreds others out there, a mining one t hat nobody will play and a casino game.
 
Fifth said:
So the popular belief seems to be that gamblers who now are happily clicking away on the explo BPs were the true engine of the game economy? They were the magical little hamsters running in the wheel. Who let em run away dammit! Go catch em, cram em back into the wheel NOW!

So everything is simple really. To make all our problems go away all we have to do is to force em to pay us markup for our loot. Stackables, enmatter, ores and basic creafting components will once again have decent markup!
They will be used to craft guns and swords and armors and all sorts of useful things!

O wait. Not really. We don't want to pay high markup to buy a crafted gun. We want em cheap. On a second thought, we don't want to buy em at all. We want em unlimited and we want to loot em ourselves!
Right.. Scrap the last part. Let em just pay for our loot, we don't really needs the 3 main professions to be tied up and be so dependent on each other.

Or do we?

You do realize those are 2 completely different problems, right? Exploiting the gamblers "for the greater good of the society" and creating a working economy based on demand and supply?
Click to expand...

Good post man +rep

Guess is all about getting the overall balance right so everything settles at a reasonable level for all....

I really don't envy the poor old balancing guy, he's the one with a bald head, 2 hands full of hair and a straight-jacket for the really bad days. :laugh::laugh:
 
Norbert said:
Guess is all about getting the overall balance right so everything settles at a reasonable level for all....

I really don't envy the poor old balancing guy, he's the one with a bald head, 2 hands full of hair and a straight-jacket for the really bad days. :laugh::laugh:
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Yep, my thoughts exactly. Most likely the new balance point will be different than what we once had. The game keeps changing... for the better or worse.

And I don't envy the balancing guy either! :)
 
Coelacanth said:
Totally flawed logic. Re-read your own sentence: "MA only need to create a demand for crafted items and markup will go up" and you see the flaw. Almost NOBODY is crafting ITEMS, they're crafting EP's!! Look at the Globals and HOF lists lately, how many crafting globes/HOFs are for items OTHER than EP's?? How do you create a demand for crafted items--WHEN NOBODY IS CRAFTING ITEMS!?!

"Rains of UL items"?? Are you serious?! Surely you jest!
Click to expand...

I don't really want to spend my time arguing on forums but the previous poster I quoted explained perfectly how old system worked and how it's working now, it's your choice to think what ever you want, but if you were an active player in the last few years you would agree.

Let's get things straight here, crafters are not crafting items because there are a lot of L and UL items out there(mostly looted from hunting) that are just better that most of the things you can craft, and yes, at this moment there is raining with UL items, adj EP-41, adj madox, all kind of melee weapons on arkadia, and other UL stuff, mindforce chips, UL faps.
More than that the marked is still full of ELM guns from last migration, we are close to the new migration and we still have weapons from last year. I don't really see much room for crafting items on this market.

As others said EP4 just moved the gamblers away from crafting useless things, like abrers, dino shoes , laser sights and so on... the truth is that a real crafter is not crafting something that is not needed or sells very bad.
In old system gamblers were undercutting the real crafters and were selling under production costs, now a crafter can set a fair price for his product.

So again, when MA will create some BP that would create some new weapons, tools, amours that are useful there will be markup, these items should be superior to items we have right now on market because right now almost everyone has and UL item in his inventory, all players want markup in their loot BUT don't want to pay markup, for those ppl the solution is to force gamblers to support the markup buying their loot to craft useless items to sells to TT.
Fifth said:
So the popular belief seems to be that gamblers who now are happily clicking away on the explo BPs were the true engine of the game economy? They were the magical little hamsters running in the wheel. Who let em run away dammit! Go catch em, cram em back into the wheel NOW!

So everything is simple really. To make all our problems go away all we have to do is to force em to pay us markup for our loot. Stackables, enmatter, ores and basic creafting components will once again have decent markup!
They will be used to craft guns and swords and armors and all sorts of useful things!

O wait. Not really. We don't want to pay high markup to buy a crafted gun. We want em cheap. On a second thought, we don't want to buy em at all. We want em unlimited and we want to loot em ourselves!
Right.. Scrap the last part. Let em just pay for our loot, we don't really needs the 3 main professions to be tied up and be so dependent on each other.

Or do we?

You do realize those are 2 completely different problems, right? Exploiting the gamblers "for the greater good of the society" and creating a working economy based on demand and supply?
Click to expand...

+rep
 
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can i buy my best gun and amour at the tt machine so i can hunt the biggest mob out there and miner the same put the biggest amps also in the tt machine

then it will be fair for all players

the bp is the problem but not all of it for the past 10 year and more they couldnt make a system that every one support each other in each proffession
 
JD RACING said:
can i buy my best gun and amour at the tt machine so i can hunt the biggest mob out there and miner the same put the biggest amps also in the tt machine

then it will be fair for all players

the bp is the problem but not all of it for the past 10 year and more they couldnt make a system that every one support each other in each proffession
Click to expand...

You actually buy ammo/probes from TT with no markup.
 
combo22 said:
You actually buy ammo/probes from TT with no markup.
Click to expand...

That has been the reply oft-heard during this EP debate. There's a difference, though. That ammo & probes you buy from the TT must be cycled through items THAT DECAY. Players get zero-markup ammo & probes to be able to hunt and the decay cost is MA's revenue stream.

The same cannot be said for EP crafting with nanocubes purchased with no markup at the TT.
 
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