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New miner questions after 1st 100 Probes dropped

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SteelRat

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Riga, Latvia
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"The House of Lords"
Hey there,
Im a hunter, but i decided to get my feet into some mining :)
So below are my 1st run of 100 probes. (all on Amethera, untaxed land)
Equipment: Finder F-105
Extraxtor RE-104 (both maxed)
Drops Ore: 100
Drops Enm: 0
Hit Ration: 25 %

Depth (min / avg / max): 295 / 540.5 / 733

Finder / Extractor repairs: 3.78 PED
Total expences: 103.78 PED
TT in:
Lysterium Stone: 40.20 PED
Durulium Ston: 20.00 PED
Gazzudite Ston: 3.25 PED
Kanerium Ore: 2.50 PED
Cobalt Stone: 2.40 PED

Total: 68.35 PED (tt)

So what are my thought in my 1`st impressions:
- need to to loads of exploring for areas what have no mobs / Low aggro mobs.
- i see that my avg depth was 540.5, while a maxed F-105 avg is 522.4, so that`s reallly precise. Does that mean that i have to look for ores that usually are found in 450 - 600 m depth ? (looking at LBML site that Lysis is found avg 617 , and that explains why i had most of it, right?)
- How to combine the resource maps with the Finder i use: (is this correct): let`s say i want to go and find Durulium Stone, the LBML say that the avg depth is 788, with min 291 and max 1520) So i find a swerver area that has hi % of that stone in it and exuip a finder that is close to 788 avg depth ? (something like iplex TK220 Seeker (L) with avg depth of 776.1, for example)
If the above is correct, then not always i should aim for max depth, right ? i should look what resources there are in the area and based on that i should cheese a Finder ?

Will do 100 probes with the same equipment in another location, will be interesting to compare. Will get back to you guys :)


TY.
 
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SteelRat said:
Hey there,
Im a hunter, but i decided to get my feet into some mining :)
So below are my 1st run of 100 probes. (all on Amethera, untaxed land)
Equipment: Finder F-105
Extraxtor RE-104 (both maxed)
Drops Ore: 100
Drops Enm: 0
Hit Ration: 25 %

Depth (min / avg / max): 295 / 540.5 / 733

Finder / Extractor repairs: 3.78 PED
Total expences: 103.78 PED
TT in:
Lysterium Stone: 40.20 PED
Durulium Ston: 20.00 PED
Gazzudite Ston: 3.25 PED
Kanerium Ore: 2.50 PED
Cobalt Stone: 2.40 PED

Total: 68.35 PED (tt)

So what are my thought in my 1`st impressions:
- need to to loads of exploring for areas what have no mobs / Low aggro mobs.
- i see that my avg depth was 540.5, while a maxed F-105 avg is 522.4, so that`s reallly precise. Does that mean that i have to look for ores that usually are found in 450 - 600 m depth ? (looking at LBML site that Lysis is found avg 617 , and that explains why i had most of it, right?)
- How to combine the resource maps with the Finder i use: (is this correct): let`s say i want to go and find Durulium Stone, the LBML say that the avg depth is 788, with min 291 and max 1520) So i find a swerver area that has hi % of that stone in it and exuip a finder that is close to 788 avg depth ? (something like iplex TK220 Seeker (L) with avg depth of 776.1, for example)
If the above is correct, then not always i should aim for max depth, right ? i should look what resources there are in the area and based on that i should cheese a Finder ?

Will do 100 probes with the same equipment in another location, will be interesting to compare. Will get back to you guys :)


TY.
Click to expand...

Careful of average depth found. As someone who finds duru with the tt finder their average depth is 100m, vs someone who finds duru with a vrx3k (terra8) has an average depth of 1000m.

If you can find ore at 1m, then you can find it up to the maximum possible depth MA allows. This is the same for all ores/enmatters.

Rgds

Ace
 
SteelRat said:
Extraxtor RE-104
Click to expand...

Unless you amp big or go into PVP4, TT excavator is all you ever need. RE-10X series are considerably (up to four times) less eco. Old tt excavator is more convenient because it's UL but a handful of new L ones works as well.
 
SteelRat said:
Hey there,
Im a hunter, but i decided to get my feet into some mining :)
So below are my 1st run of 100 probes. (all on Amethera, untaxed land)
Equipment: Finder F-105
Extraxtor RE-104 (both maxed)
Drops Ore: 100
Drops Enm: 0
Hit Ration: 25 %

Depth (min / avg / max): 295 / 540.5 / 733

Finder / Extractor repairs: 3.78 PED
Total expences: 103.78 PED
TT in:
Lysterium Stone: 40.20 PED
Durulium Ston: 20.00 PED
Gazzudite Ston: 3.25 PED
Kanerium Ore: 2.50 PED
Cobalt Stone: 2.40 PED

Total: 68.35 PED (tt)

So what are my thought in my 1`st impressions:
- need to to loads of exploring for areas what have no mobs / Low aggro mobs.
- i see that my avg depth was 540.5, while a maxed F-105 avg is 522.4, so that`s reallly precise. Does that mean that i have to look for ores that usually are found in 450 - 600 m depth ? (looking at LBML site that Lysis is found avg 617 , and that explains why i had most of it, right?)
- How to combine the resource maps with the Finder i use: (is this correct): let`s say i want to go and find Durulium Stone, the LBML say that the avg depth is 788, with min 291 and max 1520) So i find a swerver area that has hi % of that stone in it and exuip a finder that is close to 788 avg depth ? (something like iplex TK220 Seeker (L) with avg depth of 776.1, for example)
If the above is correct, then not always i should aim for max depth, right ? i should look what resources there are in the area and based on that i should cheese a Finder ?

Will do 100 probes with the same equipment in another location, will be interesting to compare. Will get back to you guys :)


TY.
Click to expand...

Oh boy... First thing I want to say is if you're really interested in mining you should find a mining mentor or join an active mining society.

Don't overanalyze depth statistics too much. As long as you've got a finder with 500-600~ish depth, you have access to most of the high value resources. Whether or not you hit them (in my experience) depends far more on a combination of timing/location than it does to hitting some perfect depth number. Depth is more or less just a threshold that can gate access to certain resources (such as Rugaritz).

You're on the right track. Log all your results, test your theories, drop drop drop and things will start to make a lot more sense.

Here's a link to my mining log, if you see anything interesting and have a question, feel free to post it.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?279100-ZPF-Mining-Log

Good luck!
 
Haruto Rat said:
Unless you amp big or go into PVP4, TT excavator is all you ever need. RE-10X series are considerably (up to four times) less eco. Old tt excavator is more convenient because it's UL but a handful of new L ones works as well.
Click to expand...

Yep, can confirm this.

Also pick up an imperial refiner as it's far more eco than the TT refiner. Will pay for itself in no time when it comes to refining your goods for sale on the auction.
 
2nd run (haters will love this :D )


Equipment: Finder F-105
Extraxtor RE-104 (both maxed)
Drops Ore: 100
Drops Enm: 0
Hit Ratio: 28 %

Depth (min / avg / max): 278 / 542.1 / 740

Finder / Extractor repairs: 12.92 PED
Total expences: 112.92 PED
TT in:
Belkar Stone: 439.30 PED (414 HOF on the 70ish probe)
Zinc Ston: 16.90 PED
Lysterium Stone:10.11 PED
Caldorite Stone: 10.03 PED
Narcanisum Stone: 9.04 PED
Gold Stone: 3.00 PED
Total: 488.38 PED (tt)

All run made on Amethera Untaxed.
How do you guys do your runs - also running inbetween the landareas to avoint the tax and mobs u can`t kill? (because after 2 runs i have come to a conclustion that to drom 100 probes - it covers some ground, at least a lot more then i expected before :) )

Awsome, ty all for replyes, Imperium Resource Refiner B1 aquired :) (Thanks ZPF)
Haruto Rat - got it, will use the RE-104 to extract large ammounts and a tt on for small ^^ :)

3rd run planned with the same equipment again on another server area, for both exploration reasons, and to look for good mining spots.

Mining socs - can anyone recoment me a nice one ? I play form GMT +2 TZ / during daytime. Thank you,
 
3rd run:
Equipment: Finder F-105
Extraxtor Rock Ripper 1 (L) (both maxed)
Drops Ore: 100
Drops Enm: 0
Hit Ratio: 31 %

Depth (min / avg / max): 295 / 507.3 / 711

Finder / Extractor repairs: 2.36 PED
Total expences: 102.36 PED
TT in:
Blausariam Stone: 6.84 PED
Zinc Ston: 29.70 PED
Lysterium Stone:16.87 PED
Caldorite Stone: 8.50 PED
Narcanisum Stone: 11.12 PED
Ignisium Stone: 5.60 PED
Dianum Ore: 7.50 PED
Total: 86.13 PED (tt)

All run made on Amethera Untaxed.
This one went the usualy way, looking for more spots to run, found some 0.0 mning ta LA`s.

One more Question - If my skills allow for a finder with bigger avg depth should i go for it ? Or stick with F-105 ?

TYTY.
 
In addition to clearing up the depth information that others have done, the main thing with mining is to target high markup areas. LBML has the broad maps showing percentages of resources found in a server. However, you aren't going to find those same ratios when you go mine. Certain areas have different mixes of resources that are generally divided into revival zones, but land areas, PVP, etc. can also change the mix.

There can also be variation within a specific land area or revival zone where one resource might be even more common in a smaller area. Taking advantage of those hotspots, I have a few areas I hit an average 140%+ MU. Most of the time though, once you have the ratio of resources figured out in a revival zone or land area, you're going to seem the same average MU throughout. With that, I wouldn't worry about hotspots until you really have your feet wet and start figuring out which revival zones have the best average markup.

Those two maps are far from complete on the resources available, but they will give you an idea of how to break areas up:

http://www.thedisturbedones.co.uk/mining/eudoria-v3-0.htm

http://www.thedisturbedones.co.uk/mining/amethera-v3-0.htm
 
ok, this is really interesting.
So not i only have to look at the whole server, but inside of it i need to explore the rivival zones / Land areas, and compare each of them to others inside the same server. I bet that different online times then impact this as well.
Deep stuff. Awsome :)

Yeah, means to log everything and do reruns to be able to compare.
TY :)
 
Correct. The LBML map you've been seeing is good for excluding areas where you know you won't find resources you want at all and finding servers to explore. Downloading the LBML software has definitely been worth it for me. Within revival zones, you might have a decent MU resource (say 120%) that shows up 30% of time, but the other 70% of the time you get a resource only worth 100%. In that very simplified example, you'll only get an average of 106% MU, which probably won't be enough to get you to a break-even point

You'll only find good areas to mine by mining those areas for yourself though, so it's best to just find an area that looks promising and check it out. You can worry about overanalyzing everything after you've gotten to know a few areas pretty well and have an idea of how mining mechanics work.

You mentioned timing. Some people do believe that different resources can come in "waves". I'm not sure how much of that actually happens and how much of it is just chance. If you're not finding a resource in an area you normally do, or just aren't hitting any claims at all, take a break and check back later.
 
kingofaces said:
You mentioned timing. Some people do believe that different resources can come in "waves". I'm not sure how much of that actually happens and how much of it is just chance. If you're not finding a resource in an area you normally do, or just aren't hitting any claims at all, take a break and check back later.
Click to expand...

I'm damn near 100% sure of this m8...

Can't think of any other explanation on why I've hit ignisium 5-6 times in one area (one specific revival zone), revisited it 5-6 times and never seen igni there again.

Sure it could be morbidly horrendous luck but that just doesn't sit right with me. Though there might be other places that are more consistent and less sensitive to these "waves".

I think this is most likely related to universe-wide resource pools. There can only be so much ignisium at one time, you either catch a wave during regeneration periods or you don't.
 
Last edited:
ZPF said:
I'm damn near 100% sure of this m8...

Can't think of any other explanation on why I've hit ignisium 5-6 times in one area (one specific revival zone), revisited it 5-6 times and never seen igni there again.

Sure it could be morbidly horrendous luck but that just doesn't sit right with me. Though there might be other places that are more consistent and less sensitive to these "waves".

I think this is most likely related to universe-wide resource pools. There can only be so much ignisium at one time, you either catch a wave during regeneration periods or you don't.
Click to expand...

I actually buy into waves as well. The question for me is what degree and can you actually separate wave from pure chance. I'm pretty sure I know the area you're talking about. This and another area pretty much had igni was shut off for awhile for an extended period. I thought the resources distributions got entirely redone for a bit, but things seem to be back to "normal" again in at least one area for now.

With some other resources though, I see just highly variable occurrences where it's looking like it's just entirely luck of the draw (i.e., including time as a factor in the statistical model doesn't do anything). I can still have runs where I barely hit the target resource, and others where it's over 50% though. Really bad luck can look like a trend to people even over a run or two. The research statistician in me always feels the need to point that out to people when it comes to feelings about data. We trick ourselves a lot thinking something can't be chance.

I guess my caution to the OP was that there can be a interplay between just highly variable resources and actual waves to the point you may not be sure what you're actually dealing with. Thinking you've got a wave when it's just highly variable will give you lower specific resource hits than you expect, and you're going to be out of the luck in the longer term if you keep hitting an area that just had a wave end thinking you're eventually going to end back up at an "average" find rate if it was just high variability. How much is luck and how much is actually a wave is really hard to quantify in general and it's still tough I do spatial and temporal analyses of my finds.
 
Some quick notes

1. About the "wave" thing? If you pay attention to global sticker and combined with your findings you will notice that is very close to the truth.

2. Explore with caution fisrt and find your areas that giving you good returns and certain minerals. That takes time and can be frustrating if you don't have a good and trustworthy advisor.

3. LBML is good resource to get an idea, but you have to make your personal database. Personally I use LBML as a reference to my previous hot spots for each mineral I want to dig in a certain time.

4. Why you go Amethera? Try Eudoria also few times, you might get surprised.

5. Depth as already mentioned by others it count only for how many rare finds you are able to search for not for how much Lysterium you can find for example.

Good Luck and welcome to "the miners world profession"

PS. I'm not the oldest or the best miner for giving advise but about finder, I bought my F-105 ages back when I was "young" and I never regret it. :)
 
Last edited:
kingofaces said:
I actually buy into waves as well. The question for me is what degree and can you actually separate wave from pure chance. I'm pretty sure I know the area you're talking about. This and another area pretty much had igni was shut off for awhile for an extended period. I thought the resources distributions got entirely redone for a bit, but things seem to be back to "normal" again in at least one area for now.

With some other resources though, I see just highly variable occurrences where it's looking like it's just entirely luck of the draw (i.e., including time as a factor in the statistical model doesn't do anything). I can still have runs where I barely hit the target resource, and others where it's over 50% though. Really bad luck can look like a trend to people even over a run or two. The research statistician in me always feels the need to point that out to people when it comes to feelings about data. We trick ourselves a lot thinking something can't be chance.

I guess my caution to the OP was that there can be a interplay between just highly variable resources and actual waves to the point you may not be sure what you're actually dealing with. Thinking you've got a wave when it's just highly variable will give you lower specific resource hits than you expect, and you're going to be out of the luck in the longer term if you keep hitting an area that just had a wave end thinking you're eventually going to end back up at an "average" find rate if it was just high variability. How much is luck and how much is actually a wave is really hard to quantify in general and it's still tough I do spatial and temporal analyses of my finds.
Click to expand...

Yep I agree. This is why I visited that area I mentioned multiple times after the fact to minimize the chances that it could have just been bad luck. I recommend OP to do the same. I could still be wrong, but at some point you have to bite the bullet and pick the most likely explanation or you'll end up with an empty PED card :dunce:
 
Restarted in 2013 and was sure I wanted to really dig hard into mining again.
Not just the usual random dropping.

Markup was the keyword for me and finding areas.
So I invested quite a lot and travelled latitudes and longitudes in straight lines, 200 m apart looking for clusters and logged finds.
Once I had 10 areas on each planet I went to the next planet.
Best time ever in my mining time. So fun to explore and being on the move.

Now I have a great collection of areas from which I can pick an area due to current markups.
Once in an area I try grinding it to build up stacks, no matter how good or bad it is at a current time.
It usually picks up one time or another.

But to build stacks I would say 10 x 100 drops in the same area unamped.

To actually test waves you can use Excels correlation function.
Collect data like
  • Number of mineral orders in auction vs tt return
  • Number of available igni in auction vs % igni returns in your mining runs
  • Sum of mining hofs last 24 hours vs tt return

or whatever parameters you can think of. Not suggesting these are the ones that tells you something :rolleyes:

Correlations is shown between -1 to +1.
An example of a negative correlation is:
- More kilometers running/week vs weight loss = When one parameter is increasing and the other one is decreasing.
An example of a positive correlation is:
- The more you eat in grams/week vs weight increase = When one parameter is increasing the other one is also increasing.

Can be applied to just about anything testable. But you need quite a large sample size.
Correlations around -0,5 or +0,5 or bigger towards -1 or +1 can be concidered large enough correlations to be interesting.

The Holy Grail is to find a correlation to be able to predict the timing of the waves.
And if you find it you better keep it to yourself.
 
Can't add much to what's already been said apart from noting that the F 105 has lower decay than the (L) finders and since as been said above, you can find most high MU ores in the F 105's range, there is not much need to use a (L) finder with a deeper average deapth.

I mine on Arkadia where there are plenty of mob free areas to work. Caly can be frustrating if you are working a good cluster and find that it runs off into a mob spawn that you either can't or don't want to bother with. and its not easy finding a good mining area that's mob free or mostly so.
 
Pretto Loco said:
Restarted in 2013 and was sure I wanted to really dig hard into mining again.
Not just the usual random dropping.

Markup was the keyword for me and finding areas.
So I invested quite a lot and travelled latitudes and longitudes in straight lines, 200 m apart looking for clusters and logged finds.
Once I had 10 areas on each planet I went to the next planet.
Best time ever in my mining time. So fun to explore and being on the move.

Now I have a great collection of areas from which I can pick an area due to current markups.
Once in an area I try grinding it to build up stacks, no matter how good or bad it is at a current time.
It usually picks up one time or another.

But to build stacks I would say 10 x 100 drops in the same area unamped.

To actually test waves you can use Excels correlation function.
Collect data like
  • Number of mineral orders in auction vs tt return
  • Number of available igni in auction vs % igni returns in your mining runs
  • Sum of mining hofs last 24 hours vs tt return

or whatever parameters you can think of. Not suggesting these are the ones that tells you something :rolleyes:

Correlations is shown between -1 to +1.
An example of a negative correlation is:
- More kilometers running/week vs weight loss = When one parameter is increasing and the other one is decreasing.
An example of a positive correlation is:
- The more you eat in grams/week vs weight increase = When one parameter is increasing the other one is also increasing.

Can be applied to just about anything testable. But you need quite a large sample size.
Correlations around -0,5 or +0,5 or bigger towards -1 or +1 can be concidered large enough correlations to be interesting.

The Holy Grail is to find a correlation to be able to predict the timing of the waves.
And if you find it you better keep it to yourself.
Click to expand...

The most fun I had was mining in a set pattern, bonus points for actual correct prediction. Just remember one thing, the game's parameters can change. Just because there is a correlation now, does not mean that there will be one later, if the devs see that the game is not working to their satisfaction, they will change the rules, so try and be as broad as possible when trying to figure it all out.
 
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