The Changing EU Economy: An Analysis

Markup isn't being displaced. It's being slowly eradicated.

Many things could have been done to slow/avoid this. Instead of putting UL rings in boxes, they could have made all rings (L) and craftable... sure we got a short term spike in deposits, but is that healthy for the long term sustainability of the game?

As many people have pointed out, MA seems to want to be the one stop shop for everything we need. I think they would love it if Caly auction was down to 300 listings and everyone just TT'd all their loot and bought all their weapons/armor/healing tools/skill pills etc straight from the web shop. Because everything points to this being the direction we're headed in.

But hey at least they gave us invisible armor. Great for PvP! Which happens to be where most of the mining markup is right now. Hmmm... :rolleyes:
 
what i would like to see the most is not a space update, compet, land plots, or other stupid nonsense... what i would like to see the most is MA selling the game to a smart company that knows how to handle this kind of game. Because MA clearly does not understand. and when they are done cutting off the branch on which they are sitting, we might see a company change. i dont see any future in this game the way MA is handling stuff.
 
OK....really? So less value being transferred does not equal a loss? You directly contradicted yourself in the same sentence. It DOES mean a direct loss, in fact that is exactly what it means for the players. And yes i kinda stated that MA is not affected. Maybe the gist of what i was saying got lost in translation or something? Because we kind of arrived at the same point from different directions. All except the idea that less MU doesn't mean a loss for the players..which i don't get at all, because indeed players are the only ones affected by MU.

Yes, I meant in total for the players. For one player to get MU, an other must pay it. Lower MU, a loss for the seller and a win for the buyer. Higher MU a win for the seller and a loss for they buyer. For MA it makes no difference so they have no direct interest in have high or low MU, in the end it's players who sets the MU. They have an indirect interest in the MU because they want a MU that they think is good for the game-play, but they don't benefit directly from a lower MU.
 
Notes from a non Uber Old Timer on the changing Economy.

I apologize if this is a rambling rant of sorts, I just wanted to thrown in my 2 cents here.

I started playing Entropia Universe in the Mid 2000's. It was a very different game back then. Many people were Uber and had all this cool stuff and deeds to homes and could hunt the hardest monsters and mine the rarest Ores.

I started out , like most early players , in a sweat camp, in fact THE sweat camp north of Port Atlantis. Back then I had limited funds for games so I made a few small deposits of $10 after realizing sweating was not worth it, so I could take up mining instead. I got a finder off the TT I think and some bombs for ore [they had separate bombs back then for ore and ent matter I think]. I had a mentor who helped me get all the main portals and I think he got something for helping me. That first month was what hooked me. I got two large globals using an a TT finder and no amp [1k ped each]. I also found 2 robot space ships and sold the becons for quite a lot. My Mentor quit the game after I got my second global because he was mad that I had so muck luck and a only a noob.

Anyway, the economy was rough in the old days and I couldn't afford much of anything decent as demand was high for the good items so the prices were high for them as a result. They had no starter quests that gave you stuff so you really had to buy your starter equipment. Except for that first month, I lost money every month I played and sometimes it was a marginal loss but still a loss. When I did not deposit , I'd run out of funds because of the costs of hunting and mining and repairing equipment and be back at the sweat camp.

I my skills grew, I started to hunt bigger things and mine better ores but I never got an ATH or a global higher than the ones I got in my first month of play, remember by the time I quit playing I had been playing for 6-7 years by then. The ONLY good thing I every got hunting was an SGA UL Jaguar harness -- I still have it too-- that I got during the SGA events several years ago oh and I also got a pair of vigilante SGA arms too.
I remember as i lost money every money or barely got by watching some miner named Jeff something getting ATH after ATH towers for huge amounts of peds and constant globals. Its hard not to be upset when only a few players seemed to get all the mining towers, while I was getting the rare but paltry 80 ped - 150 ped globals , all while losing money or barely getting by . There was no path that I could see for me to ever get any better at the game and I was sick of bleeding money. I love this game and I enjoy playing and exploring but the imbalance was ridiculous. I took a break from the game about 1.5 years ago because I was bored and tired of losing money and not ever getting really high globals even though I was an old timer too. I just get survival globals that kept me going but never high enough to make a difference in my game play or what equipment I could afford. It seems terribly unfair that a small group of people with the best equipment I could never buy, that dropped off mobs I could never hunt, or towers I have never gotten, owned 99% of the land and high end stuff and you needed that high end stuff to advance or you were never going to get past the mid level player wall.

So I came back about 2 weeks ago. here is what I have noticed: Limited items are now the norm and they are very expensive as you have to buy a whole set of limited armor at a steep price [I am talking about good armor that allows you to hunt good stuff] which has to be replaced all at once every few weeks for a lot of ped, and don't get me started on the expensive limited kinetic attack chip I bought that I have only used a few weeks an is now almost dead... I am NOT buying another one! I have a lower but ul one that I will use instead, which means I am stuck. I like UL items because if you are low on funds you can repair them 'a little bit' to keep going, and you never have to buy them again. It gives me a sense of investment. To be honest if my limited finder dies on me too fast and I don't have to peds to buy another of the same one, I may just stop playing again and cash out. I don't like this model and it is too expensive.

Mining: it sucks now, all the mine ore MV are way down and I cant make any money selling them on the AH-- which was my main source of income back in the day. Globals are less often and smaller for me-- all I want is just one Tower in 9 years, is that too much to ask? I can see from the HOF log that only people crafting those explosives make any real money-- I saw a 70k ped ATH two days ago. Once again I am wondering why I never get an ATH when I am crafting spotty pants [expensive item to craft FYI], or when I use a level 13 amp on my finder. In fact I used a level 13 amp and did not get ONE global and I used it in an area I always get lots of hits. I even used it in the PVP area where I have a very high success rate, I ended up losing money on the amp purchase and wont do it again.

Hunting seems worse, cost to loot returns seem worse to me. I do like the dropped ammo though, maybe that balances it out a little.

Crafting is broken now in my opinion when my 100% BP only gets a 33% success ratio consistently.

I feel like after years of playing EU, going through several major game reboots and buying peds for YEARS, the least MA could do is give me, a game veteran, one greatly increased odds of one ATH/tower as a way of saying thanks for all the years of playing. After I get one ATH or large global I am fine with going back to be a forgotten mid level player. They have still made a lot of money off me over the years and this would kind of make up for treating me and other long time vets who missed the very beginning of the game when most of the cool UL items dropped that have allowed those players to dominate for over a decade, and give us incentive to keep playing.

Pets-- love this addition.
 
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I see this all to often.

Unless you are willing to invest quite literally $100,000 USD or so, this is how the game plays if you do not find a niche or your own way in this game. There are also people that profit but on small levels because they are smart.

My advice is to (even though you've been playing since mid 2000's) brush up on your Entropia information and if profit is what you are looking for, you have to realize large payouts do not = profit.

One thing in particular I would like to point out is that the people crafting explosive blueprints are generally losing tons of money. If you are under the impression that those people are minting money, this implies to me you should ask a mentor or someone knowledgeable for more recent information.

Since the mid 2000's, the game is still Entropia but many parts of it are played differently.
 
You seems to be the minister of economy from my country - because you speak very beatiful - :D,.... In my opinion I see Mindark promotes high MU of hunting weapons (E.L.M), armors (UL and L) and fap (modified, improved, etc); and by the other hand the lowest MU in the hunting loot, beside low rates of return at general. :mad:
 

So, this is very wrong on a lot of levels but I'll try to be constructive paragraph by paragraph.

Firstly, you popped 2 (two!) 1k+ mining loots on an input of just over 1ped. This is incredibly lucky, even if you mined continually you may never get that again.

"The economy was rough in the old days" - too expensive items. Now you complain that (L) items are too expensive, but for a different cost reason. It would seem that the only way you'd be happy, is if you could afford everything on your personal budget. But this is an MMO? You play with others, just like in real life, you can afford a car and someone else can afford a better car. Conversely, someone else cannot afford a car at all. FYI - decay is relative to the cost of the item. A gun doing 50DPS will decay (about) the same whether it is (L) or unL, the only difference in price is the reduction of paying markup.

Jeff (Squall) turned over a HUGE amount, constantly amped. He was the owner of the first unL amp and he smashed the concept of mining for most people. He still plays, and afaik pulls out considerable $ - last withdrawal around $25k (correct me if I'm wrong?). Again, to analog real life, this is like you going into work as a IT helpdesk worker and wondering why you aren't earning Bill Gate's salary - you put the same amount of work in, you both eat breakfast and lunch and you're both human. Why aren't you getting the same as him? You could, if you have the willpower, investment and brainpower to succeed here.

It doesn't seem unfair to me - I want the top end of the game to be exclusive, because if I ever reach there, I want it to be an achievement.

Back to the (L) debate - "good armour is expensive" well... yes? That's how any economy works - poor quality or function objects have lower price tags than high quality or function objects. If I buy a Jaguar, I expect it will cost me more than if I buy a Dacia. If you want to play the game at the high levels, you pay a premium for it. Both in up-front cost and continual cost - but a smart player knows how to utilise expensive items to create profit.

Your struggle to differentiate between (L) and unL costs worries me too. Kinetic Attack 5 (L) decays less per use than Kinetic Attack 5 unL - for the same damage output. There is markup cost on the (L) chip, probably around +15%. There is markup on the unL chip - probably around +100ped. Your economic decision is to decide will you use the (L) chip enough to warrant paying the unL markup. Every 10ped decay = 1.5ped extra with (L)... if you use just 10ped decay, the (L) chip is better. If you use 10000 ped (1500 extra with (L)) then definitely buy the unL.

This is very basic.

Gambling on a single level 13 amp is just that - gambling. I wonder if this post would be completely different if you hit the 1/1000 chance of a large HOF with that level 13 amp.

The people "making money" on explosives are not making money. These cost 20ped to click, each, and they are spending 10000ped per day hunting the ATHs. For the extremely vast majority, this is a loss making activity.

Finally, why, why should you get an ATH? MA have provided you with 7 years of entertainment - if all you're doing here is playing for a big number hit, be prepared to pay for it. Be prepared to buy 100, maybe 500 level 13 amps.

This isn't an easy game. This game takes analysis, thought, prediction, investment, time, skill. And a lot of luck, too. But if you're purely playing based on luck, for the only reason as to get a large number output, I really don't think this game is for you.
 
Crafting is broken now in my opinion when my 100% BP only gets a 33% success ratio consistently.

It always was 30-40% of real success attempts, because the success ratio means the amount of "non-failed", including the near-successes.
 
This isn't an easy game. This game takes analysis, thought, prediction, investment, time, skill. And a lot of luck, too. But if you're purely playing based on luck, for the only reason as to get a large number output, I really don't think this game is for you.


I think the definition of 'play' should be more like this.

1) Play the game it will probably cost you a lot, pump in enough ped and you will probably get a really good loot now and then to hopefully give you a deposit break.

2) Don't play the game but be active and focus on low level in-game activity, searching for trade opportunities or other methods of scrapping by....grabbing a few ped here and there. This method might not cost you anything, but I wouldn't consider it 'playing', more like 'surviving'.

You can of course invest tons of cash in deeds, and attempt to survive of the income. You could attempt to play of the income, been there done that, although you probably would need $50k+ of deeds..smiles.

As I say there's a massive difference between playing the main 3 activities or scraping by, although a player that plays should not be debated in the same breath as a player that seeks to survive.

Because the answer will always be the same "what do you mean you played the game....you are a fool"

This is why I like EU pets and Compet, in my opinion it offers a middle ground without the need for searching for a few trading peds for hours of time and effort.

Compet allows you to have quite a lot of fun, and you only pay if you want faster progress and a multitude of 'extras'. In essence you pay for increased or more entertainment but not basic entertainment.

I like EU pets mainly because it rewards for patience and time (effort) with a lot of pet skill at a fairly reasonable cost. Sure there's no return if you don't sell them, but there's an immense amount of personal satisfaction reaching personal pet training targets. The plus factor is you can buy x amount of fruit bars and know for a "fact" it will last the period of time that you expect.....I like that 'middle' ground without the need of giving up loads of free time trying to find few pec from players.

My 10c


Choices, choices.


Rick
 
I think the definition of 'play' should be more like this.

1) Play the game it will probably cost you a lot, pump in enough ped and you will probably get a really good loot now and then to hopefully give you a deposit break.

2) Don't play the game but be active and focus on low level in-game activity, searching for trade opportunities or other methods of scrapping by....grabbing a few ped here and there. This method might not cost you anything, but I wouldn't consider it 'playing', more like 'surviving'.

You can of course invest tons of cash in deeds, and attempt to survive of the income. You could attempt to play of the income, been there done that, although you probably would need $50k+ of deeds..smiles.

As I say there's a massive difference between playing the main 3 activities or scraping by, although a player that plays should not be debated in the same breath as a player that seeks to survive.

Because the answer will always be the same "what do you mean you played the game....you are a fool"

This is why I like EU pets and Compet, in my opinion it offers a middle ground without the need for searching for a few trading peds for hours of time and effort.

Compet allows you to have quite a lot of fun, and you only pay if you want faster progress and a multitude of 'extras'. In essence you pay for increased or more entertainment but not basic entertainment.

I like EU pets mainly because it rewards for patience and time (effort) with a lot of pet skill at a fairly reasonable cost. Sure there's no return if you don't sell them, but there's an immense amount of personal satisfaction reaching personal pet training targets. The plus factor is you can buy x amount of fruit bars and know for a "fact" it will last the period of time that you expect.....I like that 'middle' ground without the need of giving up loads of free time trying to find few pec from players.

My 10c


Choices, choices.


Rick

There is always the third option, of playing and thinking about what you're doing, utilising all the help and resources and enjoying the game while making a bit of cash too.

As reference, in 2016 my account value has grown by about 1.5x the value of my deposits, excluding skill gains.

The whole point of entropia is the options in front of you. Up to you which you choose.
 
thank you great read ^^
 
added a link to my growing list of 'scholarly works' on Entropia...


http://studenttheses.cbs.dk/bitstream/handle/10417/1110/susanne_sperling.pdf?sequence=1
https://gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/2045/1/200250.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=gQ...g=PA338#v=onepage&q=entropia universe&f=false
http://www.hca.uws.edu.au/gmjau/?p=299
http://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/20880/
http://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/20880/1/Ethnography_on_the_Cyberian_Frontier.pdf

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as far as explosive go, they aren't that big of a deal since it's not much different than the old days when folks crafted useless filters, etc. just for skills... same as a hunter going after zero markup loot mobs and TTing all that they get, etc.

If Mindark wanted to stop the constant crafting of explosives, they should remove the option to sell ammo to the TT including the explosives... but if they go that route they SHOULD also do it for ALL ammo, not just ep, and should make it so that the other ammo becomes a crafted item as well.
 
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"It is possible that this adjustment worked, but not as well as MA had hoped, and the economy remained overheated, driven by MV paid by big-gambling crafters. MA took a decisive step in VU15.1.1 which introduced Explosive Projectile blueprints (EP BPs) I through IV, and nanocubes. Rather than disincentivize gamblers from paying MV for mats, EP crafting incentivized buying a mat that had no MV...carrot rather than stick. Rather than attempt to forcibly isolate gamblers from the in-game economy, MA successfully convinced gamblers to voluntarily isolate themselves. The game has even seen some movement of big-gambling hunters and miners to EP crafting. Instead of the gamblers being driven out of the game, they have been placated and their decay is not lost. The rise of EP crafting and the earlier modifications have definitely cooled down the economy, and may have opened up the crafting profession by producing a split between gamblers and crafters. For most practical purposes, gambling has become a crafting sub-profession, in the manner of tailoring."



No, no, no, no, no no no no no no no.

You seem to think gcrafting gamblers were the movers of MV. This is so damn wrong there arent words to describe it. And i cannot be arsed to go into the details now. But just to say, MV's were dropping across the board before EP's were even introduced. Beacuse there weas a steady increase in unlimited gear and the word econcomic weapons started to make sense to people, and they stopped paying silling markups for limited stuff. EP's increased this process, by making residue near to 0% MV. So mining amps dropped in price. But they are not the cause.

And as for gamblers being the cause of MV, is laughable, they had very little to no impact on MV's pre EP's.

Rgds

Ace
 
Saying that gamblers did not have any impact on MU ingame is same wrong as saying they are driving it. Fact is that they have at least medium influence of MU. I remeber when i was able alone change MU on ignisium by 20-30% while preparing and performing long dynera craft runs. I was able to buy 80% of aviable on auction resources and draining it for few days which caused MU increase. And thats one person.

During lower participants activity caused by MA ingame economy policy same as RL worse situation lowering MU on resources used to perform activities in game is natural.

Parting gamblers for regular gamers in region of crafting by introducing EP BP's was really smart MA move. In theory and in blossom economy that usualy works well. Case is that in EU it showed how weak is "normal" part without gamblers, and that EU is more or less casino we like it or not.

To make such switch complete and more effective MA shall introduce something similar like EP BP's for miners and hunters. It can be special area for miners when they using special TT high value amps looting only new TT resource ( without possibility to use it in "normal part" economy). For hunters it can be special area when no MU gear is used and only universal ammo is looted.

But that would be whole diferent game then and i bet most activities would be in this simple gamble regions. In current shape of things gamblers who like hunt or mining have to live with MU ,weapons and armors and finders variety etc. Slot lovers aka. EP crafters have already what they wanted - simple high value click ( no MU in , no MU out )
 
Parting gamblers for regular gamers in region of crafting by introducing EP BP's was really smart MA move. In theory and in blossom economy that usualy works well. Case is that in EU it showed how weak is "normal" part without gamblers, and that EU is more or less casino we like it or not.

You probably have a point there. It's a bit hard coming to terms with it from this side of the fence, hence all the protest and alternative suggestions (yours truly not exempt). Especially since MA is not disclosing their reasons and everybody is left dangling and guessing. Avoiding gambling regulations slapped on the company must be a dangerously fine line to walk, and calling on them to tell more might be counterproductive. At least I'm telling myself that to quiet the chatter, but always open for better explanations.
 
Too long didn't read, looks informative though.

Edit: Read this over lunch, great read. +rep

Text to Speech - click and listen to text walls (if you think there may be value) while you do something else.
 
Saying that gamblers did not have any impact on MU ingame is same wrong as saying they are driving it. Fact is that they have at least medium influence of MU. I remeber when i was able alone change MU on ignisium by 20-30% while preparing and performing long dynera craft runs. I was able to buy 80% of aviable on auction resources and draining it for few days which caused MU increase. And thats one person.

During lower participants activity caused by MA ingame economy policy same as RL worse situation lowering MU on resources used to perform activities in game is natural.

Parting gamblers for regular gamers in region of crafting by introducing EP BP's was really smart MA move. In theory and in blossom economy that usualy works well. Case is that in EU it showed how weak is "normal" part without gamblers, and that EU is more or less casino we like it or not.

To make such switch complete and more effective MA shall introduce something similar like EP BP's for miners and hunters. It can be special area for miners when they using special TT high value amps looting only new TT resource ( without possibility to use it in "normal part" economy). For hunters it can be special area when no MU gear is used and only universal ammo is looted.

But that would be whole diferent game then and i bet most activities would be in this simple gamble regions. In current shape of things gamblers who like hunt or mining have to live with MU ,weapons and armors and finders variety etc. Slot lovers aka. EP crafters have already what they wanted - simple high value click ( no MU in , no MU out )

All of this would be fixed if crafting wasn't so god damn broken and we had weapon/tool/armor bps that were actually worth crafting. MA just decided that superior L guns and tools should just be put in hunting loot instead of crafted.

That's what ruined the economy.. at least without EP BP 3 and 4 we had an artificial inflation of markups that allowed most activities to be sustainable. Mining hasn't changed in years and idk how you can change it much.. actual crafting has been abandoned, and all of the love has gone to hunting.. upgrade missions, new guns/faps, L guns better than craftable equivalents, etc...

We need a crafting overhaul and we need it bad. Crafted guns need to have better dps/eco than the looted equivalents.

Take a LLC30 (L) and tweaking the stats slightly to boost eco, and then giving it a new texture and a new name wouldn't be hard to do.. then allow BPs for the new gun to flood the market.

Economy = Saved
 
We need a crafting overhaul and we need it bad. Crafted guns need to have better dps/eco than the looted equivalents.

on point :wise: and maybe add some new texture/furniture BP's. Textures/Furnitures that gives you a buff (and decay ofc)....just an idea.
 
All of this would be fixed if crafting wasn't so god damn broken and we had weapon/tool/armor bps that were actually worth crafting. MA just decided that superior L guns and tools should just be put in hunting loot instead of crafted.

That's what ruined the economy.. at least without EP BP 3 and 4 we had an artificial inflation of markups that allowed most activities to be sustainable. Mining hasn't changed in years and idk how you can change it much.. actual crafting has been abandoned, and all of the love has gone to hunting.. upgrade missions, new guns/faps, L guns better than craftable equivalents, etc...

We need a crafting overhaul and we need it bad. Crafted guns need to have better dps/eco than the looted equivalents.

Take a LLC30 (L) and tweaking the stats slightly to boost eco, and then giving it a new texture and a new name wouldn't be hard to do.. then allow BPs for the new gun to flood the market.

Economy = Saved

Saved for who?

As a miner, I'm sure you will be happy mining 130-140% ores using unL & 105-110% amps.

As a crafter, if there is a demand they will be happy as they can set their own prices.

But as a hunter? It just doesn't work. One profession (currently crafting) is always left out / left behind.

Cyclical economies do not work here due to three reasons:

1. The lack of free generation of product (you can't create something for free here at the expense of time).
2. The cost of each activity is taken out of the system to "pay" for the system (MA's fee), thus providing a constant drain.
3. The size of the player base - minor if points 1 & 2 were not in effect.

I wish people would stop going on about this "utopian" style Hunting->crafting->mining->crafting->hunting system. Won't work, ever.

Come up with ideas on how to make a functioning crafting system which doesn't just dump MU on hunters initial cost (or remove MU from hunters loots).
 
Come up with ideas on how to make a functioning crafting system which doesn't just dump MU on hunters initial cost (or remove MU from hunters loots).

That would need some dramatic steps, like removing all guns and tools from hunting loot, and make it only craftable.
But that comes with other problems and disadvantages i don;t belive socialistic thinking MA would be able to solve.
 
for a lot of people removing them wouldn't make much difference, the drop rates were already massively reduced to cope with the grinding missions.

At this point any changes are too late the economy was screwed a long time ago long before the EP bp was added.
 
That would need some dramatic steps, like removing all guns and tools from hunting loot, and make it only craftable.
But that comes with other problems and disadvantages i don;t belive socialistic thinking MA would be able to solve.

But that's again looking at it from an end point of hunters using limited crafted weapons exclusively. If you forget the end point and work with what we're at, at the moment, you can make crafting work a bit better.

For example, a laser scope which is crafted from 25% hunting loot, 50% mining loot and 25% nanocubes / tt materials. This scope is limited, and gives a +2% CH chance.

Everyone would use the scope and the materials used to craft would have their MU boosted. But critically, it does not change the core game.

I've said hundreds of times before, crafting needs to produce ancillary items (those which aid but are not critical to hunting / mining) or luxury items (furniture, clothing). There isn't a way of making it work where it is producing primary items (weapons, mining tools).
 
But that's again looking at it from an end point of hunters using limited crafted weapons exclusively. If you forget the end point and work with what we're at, at the moment, you can make crafting work a bit better.

For example, a laser scope which is crafted from 25% hunting loot, 50% mining loot and 25% nanocubes / tt materials. This scope is limited, and gives a +2% CH chance.

Everyone would use the scope and the materials used to craft would have their MU boosted. But critically, it does not change the core game.

I've said hundreds of times before, crafting needs to produce ancillary items (those which aid but are not critical to hunting / mining) or luxury items (furniture, clothing). There isn't a way of making it work where it is producing primary items (weapons, mining tools).

Considering the artificial caps that are set by MA for various items ingame, this would seem the only real way to boost the economy. How else can you have one if caps are in place on desirable equipment? Imagine Imp MK2s possible for every player ingame if it was craftable... You know, as an example.

Consumable craftable buffs could be doable but would need some serious balancing to ensure they aren't necessary but not so expensive they aren't worth it.

I don't know if we would want to go the route of different ammo types for example to exploit a creatures weakness, say maybe 1% greater crit rate with right damage type, stuff like that. Whatever MA would do, it would need to be consumable or drain resources over time while in use similar to vehicles.

Can't really have an economy otherwise id think.
 
Everyone would use the scope and the materials used to craft would have their MU boosted. But critically, it does not change the core game.

I changed my mind
 
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The two most important things MA needs to do are fix the economy and increase the playerbase, and of the two, increasing the playerbase is the most important. So they are remaking the game at the lower levels into a hunting game. To do that, they are making hunting easier, less complicated, and cheaper. That means being able to hunt without having to deal with the crafters, and through them with miners. Instead, weapons, and maybe armor and faps, come in loot, the AH, or directly from MA through missions, tokens, or the webshop. This is what EU will be for the new casual player.

Fixing the economy comes a close second in importance, but it has to be done inside these new parameters. I think introducing explosive projectile BPs was a critical first step, but it needs to be followed up on. (That sounds like a dangling participle, but I don't see how to fix it). One problem is that what are really needed are systems, rather than individual new items.

For example, I would like something like a repair-lock, an attachment that I could put on my weapon, or fap, or finder, or whatever, that would set a lower maximum tt repair limit, so that I could just hit repair all at the repair terminal, instead of manually putting in each piece that I don't want to fully repair, and the repair lock decays a small bit every time it is used. I think it would be a successful new item for crafters. I would probably buy a few of these. So, crafters win, mat producers win, I win, and MA wins. However, I don't think that the overall benefit to the economy would be worth the coding resources it would take to introduce specific items like this. It would be an inefficient use of resources that are limited.

Instead, the game needs new systems to boost the economy. Vehicles are a system. Tiering is a system, and a pretty successful one, even if they had to take two swings at it.
 
I rethinked bit what I wrote in earlier posts.

There is other way MA can make peds flowing beetween 3 main professions, with parting gamblers from regular economy flow ( like they did with EP BP's). Of course addition of special TT areas for "gambling hunters" and "gambling miners" will hellp too, even if it reveal real weakness of non-gambling economy sector.

This other method, although probably not welcomed by lot of actual players, will increase activity in mining and crafting amd will flatten return in those professions like it is already done in hunting. It's core would be remade proportions between TT obtained part of decay cost, toward low MU one, created by crafters.

For example if nowadays hunters need spend 10 ped TT of gun and amp for 100 ped of ammo it could be switched for lets say 50 ped TT in gun&amp and 50 ped ammo. With removing guns&tools from hunting loot completly that will naturally force redirection of wast activity ingame toward mining and crafting.

Some will say that hunters will refuse to run with 10pcs of L gun instead of one, but that is technical problem wchich can be resolved in several ways ( for example crafter binded "refiling" tools for higher than TT price ). All in all it is no matter where hunting cost come from so much. If thats 99 vs 1 ammo vs gun decay or 50vs 50. Moreover with higher ped flow acros mining and crafting and hunting MU on those crafted tool will remain very low even if it will use some high MU mining loot in process of creation - as long as it is not vast part of ingridients. In result it would bring to EU state which is unthinkable now. State where miners are digging their precious 120-150% MU ores, being in demand of crafters masively producing their 110% MU products for miners and hunters, remaining both involved parties happy.

Disadvantage would be slight change of hunter habbits visiting auction as often for new gun like they visit trade terminal for ammo.
 
All in all it is no matter where hunting cost come from so much. If thats 99 vs 1 ammo vs gun decay or 50 vs 50.

Actually in your suggested scenario, it matters a great deal where the costs come from. And that is one of the very reasons why melee items have lower markup than ranged weapons. You were in your example suggesting crafters providing tools and weapons for miners at 110% markup.

Lets take CalyTrek CR Spirit Mk.III (L) for example just to have a baseline. 135 ped max TT. 110% markup =148.5ped for the gun.

(All stats taken from entropedia v2)
It has 10605 max uses, 48,65 effective damage.

Ammo consumption is 15.50 pec per shot. and decay is 1.235 pec per shot.
1643,775 ped ammo per gun and 130,96 ped (usable) decay per gun.
This means that you pay 13,5 ped in markup for 1774,735ped worth of damage.
0,76% markup per damage.


Make decay/ammo 50/50
Ammo consumption 8.3675, decay 8.3675
From your post it seemed like you wanted to keep max TT the same with regards to this statement
Disadvantage would be slight change of hunter habbits visiting auction as often for new gun like they visit trade terminal for ammo.
Which means you get 1565 uses per gun. This means your total cost would be 130,95gun + 130.95 ammo = 261,9 ped.
13,5ped markup for 261,9 ped damage.
5,15% markup per damage.

Which is a significant difference. Just to put this into a bit of perspective. I had a decent month in november with 100,47% TT return. If I had been paying 4.39% more markup on my damage and getting the same loot I´d be looking at a 96,29% return instead.

So to say that it does not matter where the costs are incurred when talking about markup is a dangerous thing.

EDIT: I might of course have misunderstood what you were saying, and if that´s the case I apologize for going slightly off topic
 
\There isn't a way of making it work where it is producing primary items (weapons, mining tools).
Sure there is... it's just not a path a lot of folks want.
 
[...]

EDIT: I might of course have misunderstood what you were saying, and if that´s the case I apologize for going slightly off topic

I think you get my idea. Ofcourse 9/1 vs 5/5 numbers are just rough exmple out of hat. I belive that if ever implemented it will need some more precise calculation from MA 9something like you did. Maybe even new line of guns.

By improving dmg/pec on such new gun/tool it is possible to reach such new ammo/decay ratio without compromising eco like in your detailed example.
 
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