Announcing neutral public all players welcome to join [#space_flight]

I am the owner of the mothership Varyag. I do not own or have any controlling interest or investments in any other warpship(s) nor any controlling interest investment or ownership of any space travel service.

Varying does not do any VIPs or scheduled warps or any other for profit space travel service of any kind.

In terms of space travel business/services VIPs scheduled warps I am therefore completely neutral. To put in the vernacular: “I have no horse in this race”

The obvious proof of both my and Varyag neutrality in this matter is the fact that crew of Varyag come from all across the universe. Including but not limited to the following:

Entropy Fleet Alliance (EFA)
Kronan Interplanetary Spaceship Services (K.I.S.S.)
Titans of Space (ToS)
The Royal Fleet

As well as many diverse players not associated with any organization/warpship/travel service.

Would like to take this opportunity to formally announce the neutral public channel created for all players of Entropia Universe - [#space_flight]

This channel is designed for both providers of space travel services and people who make use of these services.

HAPPY TRAVELS EVERYONE

Want to say huge thanks to those of you mentioning [#space_flight] throughout the universe
You are being heard - [#space_flight] is growing rapidly

I'm confused, what was wrong with the old #space_travel channel?

ZPF said:

I'm confused, what was wrong with the old #space_travel channel?

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Some of her peeps got banned from the channel or muted because they kept spamming propaganda about Kronan... which actually would make their new channel not very neutral.

#space_travel is private which is perfectly fine private channels have an important function in EU.
Private channels require you to be approved before you can join. As well there are levels of
privilege such as whether or not you are permitted to type into the chat or if you
are observer status only.

#space_flight being a public channel is accessible to all players in EU.
This means anyone can join and type into the chat.

Both private and public chats have pros and cons and both have important roles to play in EU.

Yoshii Lem said:

#space_travel is private which is perfectly fine private channels have an important function in EU.
Private channels require you to be approved before you can join. As well there are levels of
privilege such as whether or not you are permitted to type into the chat or if you
are observer status only.

#space_flight being a public channel is accessible to all players in EU.
This means anyone can join and type into the chat.

Both private and public chats have pros and cons and both have important roles to play in EU.

Click to expand...

Slight correction:
#space_travel is not a private channel - its a public channel with close to 2500 avatars in it.
Yes the technical status atm is 'private' however it is still possible to join for everyone, just pm me and i will add you or ask someone who is already in the channel to ask for you to be added.
#space_travel is a public channel under 'soft' moderation of myself as admin in cooperation with a select number of transport providers - who discuss channel/transport/space related issues in the private #space_council channel.
The technical private status is usually a temporary meassure applied to remind certain individuals to keep the channel rules and avoid slander/spamming/fighting in the channel - when people have calmed down the channel is returned to technically 'public' status.
Regardless of the technical status however it can be taken for granted that the 4th largest custom channel in entropia is a 'public' place even when single individuals get banned from it sometimes.

Compared to this the public channel #space_flight has just about 200 members atm (much less 'public' then #space_travel) and is lacking the support of several big transport providers - infact the only additional offers you can find in there is from those who got temporarily muted in #space_travel.

As John Black Knight has correctly pointed out his channel is private which allows for him as he has stated to control access and who can chat in it as he sees fit. And this has its uses. For example if there is concern about the direction discussions are going one can control who has a voice and who does not to maintain consistency of messaging. This can be very useful when one feels there is too much extraneous discussion not related to the intended purpose of the channel.

By contrast public channels risk being derailed as a consequence of their being no control over who is in it and what they say. Public channels have the potential to be messy and needing constant tending to help keep it on track.

By the way John you are also welcome to advertise in #space_flight as you have so ably done in this thread

I read your #space_travel thread with your announcement of 200 members back in the day when you were in the early stages of promoting your channel Same place where #space_flight is today All channels begin their many thousands of steps journey with the initial first step

Yoshii Lem said:

Want to say huge thanks to those of you mentioning [#space_flight] throughout the universe
You are being heard - [#space_flight] is growing rapidly

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Agh so you blame for people keep spamming the RT chat every 5 mins. Fuck it i just put them on ignore.

As you point out in a chat if you are reading messaging that is of no interest to you or offends you there is the option to right click the avatar name and put them on your ignore list.


As for #space_flight given that it is a public channel no doubt it will have its share of trolls and people having a bad day.
Myself and other volunteers will of course do our best to keep things on track but in those instances where people will not or cannot listen to reason there is always the option of blocking the avatar.

I have been involved for EU for years and as much as our present chat system may have in one sense complicated things a great deal compared to days of old it has at same time afforded many more opportunities and venues for people to communicate.

It is my sincere belief that a public channel created by someone who has neither a space travel business or need to use one does not have a conflict of interest that other space travel channels may have to grapple with.

If you own a space transport service it can be difficult to differentiate between those people you think are derailing the purpose of a channel and those who are promoting what a chat owner perceives as something counter to their business interests. This does not make for any bad people or malicious intentions. It is merely human. This is why there are guidelines to deal with conflict of interests.

ty I was looking for a public channel. I get spooked when I get threatened to be kicked out if I talk back .

Later edit: Not my business.

Available public channels:
[#aerospace] 82 Members
[#space] 424 Members
[#space-event] 4 Members
[#space-garage] 8 Members
[#space-repair] 33 Members
[#space-skills] 137 Members
[#space-taxi] 187 Members
[#space_flight] 207 Members
[#space_wars] 25 Members
[#spaceevent] 4 Members
[#spacemining] 9 Members
[#spacerescue] 32 Members
[#spacetrade] 67 Members

How many space channels do we need lol?

The biggest disadvantage of an unmoderated public channel that anyone can join is that your travel arrangements can, and would be, monitored by pirates who are excluded from JBK's channel.

It seems to me that some confusion has arisen from MA using the words public and private in 2 different contexts.

Context 1.
Any chat without the # prefix is created by MA and is defined by MA as a 'Public channel'
All chats prefixed with a #, including #space_travel and #space_flight are player created channels and as such are deemed 'private channels' by MA as regards their rules about chat. Therefore this bickering over who has a private channel is pointless as you both do in this context.

Context2.
Channel Access
Each player created chat channel can set the type of access it chooses
'Public Access' = other players may join without an invite
'Private Access' = an invite from a moderator is needed in order to join.
An common example of a channel normally set to 'Private' would be Society chat channels where they want to keep them specific to their soc membership.

All player created chats can and usually do have a moderator (usually the owner and may have others designated to assist)
This is not unreasonable and may be used to reduce/prevent much of the personal abuse, vulgarity or inappropriate conversations seen in places such as Rookie. Given that they are deemed private channels they Simply put, even the lightest moderator has the right to ask people to keep the channel for the designated purpose and take their trolling elsewhere.
JBK had #space_travel set to public to allow anyone to join until it was repeatedly abused for reasons other than communication between potential passengers and service providers. I believe the individuals were warned more than once, but continued and left John with no choice but act as moderator to get it back on track.

DoA said:

That's probably because I'm a Daughter of ANARCHY, but I really don't think that there should be a "council" moderating a "public channel".

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This is a misunderstanding of the situation. There is no council moderating a public channel.
There is a separate 'Private channel' called #space_council also set up by JBK which is permanently set to ‘Private Access’ ie invite only.
This channel is for owners of warp capable ships, somewhere they can chat about space related stuff with similarly interested and experienced players.
It’s sole relevance here is that when certain individuals seemed to have a need to bitch about another service provider, they were asked to take it to a private room as several other users of the channel were complaining of the trolling. It was suggested that as it was an argument about another spaceship service provider that they may wish to discuss it in the #space_council channel, thereby keeping the #space_travel chat for it’s designated purpose.

As for freedom of speech, there is a world of difference in my opinion at least between having the right to speak on any topic, and being allowed to abuse others or interrupt the conversations of others and deliberately sidetrack them. This is not freedom of speech it is rudeness.

Yoshii Lem said:

I am the owner of the mothership Varyag. I do not own or have any controlling interest or investments in any other warpship(s) nor any controlling interest investment or ownership of any space travel service.

Varying does not do any VIPs or scheduled warps or any other for profit space travel service of any kind.

In terms of space travel business/services VIPs scheduled warps I am therefore completely neutral. To put in the vernacular: “I have no horse in this race”

Click to expand...

That you own a ‘warship’ means you can, have, and have intention of having an interest in space, space travel etc You are not therefore ‘neutral’ any more than any other owner.

Yoshii Lem said:

The obvious proof of both my and Varyag neutrality in this matter is the fact that crew of Varyag come from all across the universe. Including but not limited to the following:

Entropy Fleet Alliance (EFA)
Kronan Interplanetary Spaceship Services (K.I.S.S.)
Titans of Space (ToS)
The Royal Fleet

As well as many diverse players not associated with any organization/warpship/travel service.

Would like to take this opportunity to formally announce the neutral public channel created for all players of Entropia Universe - [#space_flight]

This channel is designed for both providers of space travel services and people who make use of these services.

HAPPY TRAVELS EVERYONE

Click to expand...

To Yoshii
That various ships share repair crew is in no way an endorsement of your neutrality or fairness or otherwise. Since by definition, it must apply equally to the owners of those other ships also.
The way you have displayed those service names here would appear to be an attempt, to make people think we endorse your new channel.

I will therefore make it clear, that after discussion this with the other KISS spaceship owners; we do not as a service group endorse your channel.
I am sure some players may find yet another space chat channel of some use, but I wonder how a proliferation of channels will actually achieve more than confusion for the potential customers, and thereby reduce the effectiveness of communications further.
This would unfortunately have a greater impact on the newer and smaller services, as the established ones are well known and many have other routes such as webchats where the customers can contact them.

Since becoming a member of #space_travel I have never seen any bias in regard to JBK's moderation of that channel. To be honest wading through the crap spewed by members of varyag crew was getting tiresome irregardless of my opinion of the topic. As for sharing crew... what gave you that idea?

Titans of Space Starfleet (TOS) will also not utilize/support the #space_flight channel, there will be no advertisement in the channel and no flight requests followed up from the channel.

The claimed 'neutrality' is not in place as the channel was created as a way 'around' the no slander/fighting/defamation rules of #space_travel - which makes the purpose of the channel very clear and therefor is not to be supported.

Join #TPfee if you are sick of space channels

It is factually correct that Varyag has crew from EFA, KISS, ToS and The Royal Fleet.
That people do not like this does not change this fact. People enjoy spending time on Varyag. We are friendly, fun and 100% skilling. This is nothing to do with claiming or suggesting the owners of space travel service providers endorse #space_flight. I never made any such claim and what owners think of #space_flight is frankly of no concern to me.

Pirates moderate all of the channels with any significant number of players. It is fantasy with no basis in fact to say that pirates are kept out.

there is a significant relevant difference between a chat like #space_flight a player can join themselves and one they must be approved to join.
There is relevant significant difference between a chat you can type into and one you cannot.
What is the upset about this? Both kinds of chat have pros and cons pick what works best for your chat and run with it for as long as it works.

the public Rookie chat is given as an example of why #space_travel needs controls, rules and privatization. Personally I like the vibrancy of Rookie. if someone is especially offensive I can mute them such that I don't have to see their text. Let the other players decide if they also wish to mute them. I don't feel the need to censor what the community sees.

That owners of KISS and ToS trumpet loudly in this thread they will not support #space_flight nor advertise in it nor offer to service any who use it is proof that it is not #space_flight lacking neutrality. To snipe like this about a channel you do not approve of says so much more about you then it does about #space_flight.


As for the question "How many space channels do we need?" the answer is simple.
As many as the players want.

@ AxeMurderer well said lolol when teleporting planet to planet is implemented the player base won't miss the big loud obnoxious gorillas tearing around beating their chests at each other and making a mess lololol

To clarify one more thing since people are throwing around mistaken allegations both about my behavior and intentions. Let me be very clear:
I am not doing anything to interfere with the running of space travel service businesses.
Also not doing anything to interfere with any player created chats.
It is my sincere wish that all legitimate space travel service providers do well - both the established ones and the new emerging services.

pontfirebird73 said:

Since becoming a member of #space_travel I have never seen any bias in regard to JBK's moderation of that channel. To be honest wading through the crap spewed by members of varyag crew was getting tiresome irregardless of my opinion of the topic.

Click to expand...

Same here.
I'm not on anyone's "side" and have no dog in this fight.

My subjective opinion - JBK is actually doing a very good job at moderating the channel.
If I had the authority I would have shot few ppl in the head after listening this crap for just 10 min. And after 15 min I would regret I didn't shoot em twice. JBK just gave them a very polite warning and let em remain in the channel. Very level headed.

Anyway, if some ppl create their own channel it's actually favor for the rest. Less crap to endure. We should thank them. Eventually their new channel dies out quietly on it's own or becomes a private channel for some MS crew... A natural selection.

Fifth said:

Same here.
I'm not on anyone's "side" and have no dog in this fight.

My subjective opinion - JBK is actually doing a very good job at moderating the channel.
If I had the authority I would have shot few ppl in the head after listening this crap for just 10 min. And after 15 min I would regret I didn't shoot em twice. JBK just gave them a very polite warning and let em remain in the channel. Very level headed.

Anyway, if some ppl create their own channel it's actually favor for the rest. Less crap to endure. We should thank them. Eventually their new channel dies out quietly on it's own or becomes a private channel for some MS crew... A natural selection.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm happy to be part of a channel moderated by respected members of the community who have a vested interest in the success of space and the maintenance of a cordial and professional atmosphere. A "public" channel with no moderation sounds like another Rookie Chat waiting to happen.

DoA said:

That's probably because I'm a Daughter of ANARCHY, but I really don't think that there should be a "council" moderating a "public channel".

Click to expand...

Granny Rowan said:

This is a misunderstanding of the situation. There is no council moderating a public channel. There is a separate 'Private channel' called #space_council also set up by JBK which is permanently set to ‘Private Access’ ie invite only. This channel is for owners of warp capable ships, somewhere they can chat about space related stuff with similarly interested and experienced players.
It’s sole relevance here is that when certain individuals seemed to have a need to bitch about another service provider, they were asked to take it to a private room as several other users of the channel were complaining of the trolling. It was suggested that as it was an argument about another spaceship service provider that they may wish to discuss it in the #space_council channel, thereby keeping the #space_travel chat for it’s designated purpose.

Click to expand...

John B Knight said:

#space_travel is a public channel under 'soft' moderation of myself as admin in cooperation with a select number of transport providers - who discuss channel/transport/space related issues in the private #space_council channel.

Click to expand...

Well, from John's word I understand that:
- the channel is (soft) moderated
- main moderator is John
- other moderators / people he consult with are the people from the "council"

And what I said was exactly along these lines - I don't think we need a "council" to moderate a public channel.



Later edit: Not my business.

It is amusing to me that some players are spamming the virtues of a prominent space service provider in this announcement thread for #space_flight and in same breath loudly declaring they shall never darken the doorstep of #space_flight. Perhaps some minds need to be made up here. It might be more consistent to stop spamming the virtues of the prominent space service provider in this thread if you really feel that #space_flight is not an appropriate channel to advertise.

If people truly believe #space_flight is destined to whither away then "don't worry your pretty little head about it"

I am member of #space_council channel. Rarely does anyone chat in there. Sometimes I think everyone has left it out of boredom lolol. Was lively enough the other day with accusations flying around who has been doing what it made for great entertainment.

Privately owned companies are run at the discretion of their owners. As private companies it is right of freedom of association as to who you do business with.
It may seem odd to me that some private companies do not want to utilize a service that promotes their services free of charge but it is free market run your businesses as you see fit.
Likewise in a free market economy consumers also have freedom of association and who they choose to do business with. One wants to be very careful not to appear to be constraining freedom of choice. Consumers are very sensitive to that and can easily vote with their wallets.

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem properly..

From my understanding, there were individuals in "#Space_Travel" who were going on about stuff that was not pertinent to Space Travel and generally annoying everyone else in said channel. It is worth noting that communications on this channel are suppose to be for advertisement or requesting Space travel services.

John, being a Mod, kindly ask these individuals to stop but was ignored. So he set the Channel to Private and muted/kicked them to get them to stop.

I'm not seeing a problem with this. Am I missing something? If someone jumped into #TeamVaryag and started doing the same, would you act differently?

People have jumped into #teamvaryag and trashed Varyag, crew and myself. Nobody muted them or kicked them out. #teamvaryag is an unmoderated public channel same as #space_flight.

As for the alleged derailing of conversation in #space_travel review the logs. John Black Knight was doing his share of trash talk. Maybe he should mute himself?

So I was unmuted from #space_travel yesterday.

I put in this advertisement:

#space_flight connecting space service providers with travelers.


After I said that I was told see that is what this channel is for. So of course I thought everything is fine.

Today I put in exact same advertisement worded exact same way and I have been muted again.


So I have to wonder about all the noise and thunder that I'm accused of derailing chats and having alts and so on. Im wondering if those accusations were thrown around solely for the purpose of finding excuse to silence me. To be clear I don't have any alts and I do not tell people what to say in any chat.
















#space_flight connecting space service providers with travellers

Yoshii Lem said:

So I was unmuted from #space_travel yesterday.

I put in this advertisement:

#space_flight connecting space service providers with travelers.


After I said that I was told see that is what this channel is for. So of course I thought everything is fine.

Today I put in exact same advertisement worded exact same way and I have been muted again.

Click to expand...

Lol Yoshii..

did you think...
1. he ment that the channel was made for advertising for another same kind of channel?
or
2. that he ment that the channel was made for connecting space service providers with travelers?

1. I was unmuted.

2. I stated advertisement "#space_flight connecting space service providers with travellers"

3. Creator of channel in which I place advertisement says to me: "See this is what channel is for"

4. Every couple of hours I put in that advertisement and nobody complained.

5. Next day I put in exact same advertisement.

6. I get muted.

Given this sequence Im thinking I would not know there is a problem. If creator and moderator of a channel approves my advertisement and it is exact same advertisement the next day well that is being inconsistent. Which is fine. Creators of their channels are allowed to change their minds on any whim they choose.


I completely respect consumer preference to use moderated channels. They have their valuable purpose.
I also respect consumers who prefer an unmoderated channel. They too have great value.
Likewise my respect to people who wish access to both moderated and unmoderated channels. (Best of both universes)

It is not harmful to mention in a moderated channel a simply worded advertisement for an unmoderated channel. Moderated channels that offer or wish space travel are welcome to advertise their moderated channels in #space_flight.














#space_flight connecting space service providers with travellers

Ok. It "sounded" like you misread the moderators comment. Maybe the communication between you and the moderator is not so good. If you really dont know why you got banned then try ask why so you can respect the rules of the channel for next time.

Anyways.. gl with your own channel. I am for competition but fishing ppl from a channel that already has same content seems just pointless.

I actually willingly do not like to use the space_travel channel just by watching the way it is moderated. I don't think it is such a big deal to have another new channel. No one is pulling me away from it - I just feel it is unpleasant. So maybe the new channel will not make it? so who tf cares so much? Now we are also gonna be bullied into NOT joining the new channel? Don't get your knickers in a knot and let other space people be.

One hopes that if I misunderstood comment of moderator they would clarify to me what they mean if I unwittingly break some rule?
Creator of #space_travel has known me several years so I'm thinking he could have told me "you misunderstood me it is a rule that in this moderated channel it is not permitted to advertise #space_flight"
Instead he allowed me to post the advertisement no word of complaint and then today after first post of advertisement he muted me.


I am not permitted to offer or ask for space travel services in #space_travel.

#space_travel purports to be a place one can both offer and obtain space travel services.

Since I can neither offer nor ask for space travel services I did the logical thing - left the channel











#space_flight connecting space service providers with travellers