A referandum and official petition against TP fees and other unrepresented action against our citizenry

A referandum was created earlier since we do not have a voice yet, but our virtual presidency(is it a democracy or dictatorship people?) is already taking actions against the will and better health of the Entropia Universe.

Please post only CONSTRUCTIVE comments in this thread so that as a community, we can clarify our voice, evolve this petition, and ultimately get it signed by a major population majority and pushed to all those involved.

https://www.change.org/p/jan-welter...onesty-and-no-taxation-without-representation

This is in reference to ongoing systemic problems with Mindark's management of the platform, flaws in our promised virtual democracy, the fact we have no representation in VR before actions are being performed by our leadership in our name and decisions pushed on us, and more. Please have a read, I encourage friendly conversation via PM.
See post on:
http://www.presidentofvirtualreality.com/


Since they want this to be cross platform and 'VR wide', that should be the scope of our movement to fight for change as well, starting here before it spreads and cripples our Virtual Universe or worse.



All things we pay for in this game should be based on their entertainment value since we are losing peds doing it. We should not be paying for basic functionality.
Why is mindark not opening up their loot pools since they clearly rake us across the coals every time we try to do anything with an average of at least 10% loss? If they want to create virtual jobs, should they not be stimulating us to burn peds versus choking off how many we can cycle? If we lost less per ped cycled, we could burn more weapons, use more resources, create more things, and have a healthier economy with more balance. The greed has gone too far.
Give us a voice as promised by having citizen players able to be voted to represent us in a legislative branch, and we don't have a need to raise public attention on change.org.

The problem with a planet partner being 'el presidente' is that they don't know the game from a players point of view.

Hijacker27 said:

The problem with a planet partner being 'el presidente' is that they don't know the game from a players point of view.

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He was a player for very long before he was a planet partner, that is why he is one of the few people in VR that we have who can listen.
There are many solutions to this that can give us virtual jobs, that can utilize avatars being able to transport things, just the key is every decision has to offer one thing: OPTIONAL CONTENT. We have to have the ability to choose and not be forced what to spend our money on.

hottygurl said:

has to offer one thing: OPTIONAL CONTENT. We have to have the ability to choose and not be forced what to spend our money on.

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Where do you suggest that optional p2p mu/decay should come from? clothing dosnt decay, armor/weapons only decay when used, vehicles only decay when damaged, furniture dosnt decay, apartments have no rental fee, shops have no rental fee, Instance keys are rarely used, coloring is mostly stagnant since you only do it once in a lifetime for a item, crafting is almost gone due to Expl bp, mining is mostly broken because of Expl bp and PK is almost dead....

Apart from the major systems the decay is close to if not at zero for almost everyone in game with most of the economic movement happening between you and MA directly with no player input at all and most of the new optional spending oppertunities are UL based objects or land providing almost no tangable economic movement long term other then the cash infusion for MA at the introduction stage.

So where does that leave us? MA cant add time based decay to clothing/furniture/vehicle and paint because the forum would turn into WW3. They cant build a system around apartment rentals between players(I personally think "Slumlord of genesis" has a good ring to it ) and they cant stop dropping UL gear like its going out of style.

So either they introduce a new feature that no one can live without(say necklaces with hunting stats that are insanely good) that will shift the entire powerbase and then add a bum load of decay to it.

Or they re-visit one of the already established systems and make them more economically sound without shifting the current powerbase much at all and at the same time introduce a vastly improved model of cash flow going to Player>Player>MA, rather then the current Player>MA model.

Im just thinking realistically here, 1ped i think is a bit much for a TP trip, maybe 0.1ped would be a good starting point. But to discount it altogether i dont think is a very good idea either.

Cheers
Zweshi

hottygurl said:

He was a player for very long before he was a planet partner, that is why he is one of the few people in VR that we have who can listen.
There are many solutions to this that can give us virtual jobs, that can utilize avatars being able to transport things, just the key is every decision has to offer one thing: OPTIONAL CONTENT. We have to have the ability to choose and not be forced what to spend our money on.

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Technically you aren't forced, there are other forms of travel besides teleporter.

However after playing this game for 11 years it would be strange to have to start paying to use a tp.

...hidden shallow on the surface is slots costing $0.002, $0.02, $0.2, and $2 usd per click.

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The goal seems to be to shut down EU for good. Doesn't hurt to try, right?

Nah bro, make it cost 100 sweat. That will fix the world

melander said:

Where do you suggest that optional p2p mu/decay should come from? clothing dosnt decay, armor/weapons only decay when used, vehicles only decay when damaged, furniture dosnt decay, apartments have no rental fee, shops have no rental fee, Instance keys are rarely used, coloring is mostly stagnant since you only do it once in a lifetime for a item, crafting is almost gone due to Expl bp, mining is mostly broken because of Expl bp and PK is almost dead....

Apart from the major systems the decay is close to if not at zero for almost everyone in game with most of the economic movement happening between you and MA directly with no player input at all and most of the new optional spending oppertunities are UL based objects or land providing almost no tangable economic movement long term other then the cash infusion for MA at the introduction stage.

So where does that leave us? MA cant add time based decay to clothing/furniture/vehicle and paint because the forum would turn into WW3. They cant build a system around apartment rentals between players(I personally think "Slumlord of genesis" has a good ring to it ) and they cant stop dropping UL gear like its going out of style.

So either they introduce a new feature that no one can live without(say necklaces with hunting stats that are insanely good) that will shift the entire powerbase and then add a bum load of decay to it.

Or they re-visit one of the already established systems and make them more economically sound without shifting the current powerbase much at all and at the same time introduce a vastly improved model of cash flow going to Player>Player>MA, rather then the current Player>MA model.

Im just thinking realistically here, 1ped i think is a bit much for a TP trip, maybe 0.1ped would be a good starting point. But to discount it altogether i dont think is a very good idea either.

Cheers
Zweshi

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First of all, I have many solutions for these questions you have. Keep in mind most or all of these have been given to mindark previous in a support ticket, within the past 6 months.
First clothing could be made enchantable with a new system, where if you have textured the item one time before with at least a certain level color/texture, you unlock slots for it to gain boosts such as run speed 5%, skill increase 2%, etc. When an effect is active, the clothing would decay, giving it a worn appearance over time. This gives the clothes a UTILITY value instead of a speculative value, leading to a much healthier economy. If you restrict it so each piece of clothing cannot have a given enchanment removed from it unless you complete a quest requiring you to turn in supplies, ubers with shiny clothes can repurpose them when there may only be one of a given shirt. This would drive the market by providing new content with both a source and a sink.

For vehicles, I believe that there should be a slow TT decay system that takes up part of the oil usage, or something reasonable like 0.0033 ped per km. This keeps the vehicle market flowing, but doesn't overly tax people. There is a functioning source, and a functioning sink here. Vehicle defensive boosts against certain categories of mobs when a vehicle is spawned nearby could be useful to add further utility value to these vehicles, such as increased carrying capacity on the PIG V and such to all in a 1km radius.

For furniture I believe your estate and items you put in it should help contribute to your social category of item boosts. A % gain to all active boosts, increased auction slot capacity boost for each of the furniture pieces you own that is unique, and boosts for acquiring all things in a set of furniture that would lower auction fees by 10% or lower start auction fee would be great things to put on furniture, the catch being that if you activate the boost of the furniture, it decays over time and loses structural integrity. When a furniture piece has no more structural integrity, it must be repaired with fabric or material scraps and possibly disassembled pieces of the same furniture, or it breaks and simply functions like a chair and nothing else. All of this should be manageable through your avatar at any time, which would drive the furniture profession. This would drive the market by providing new content with both a source and a sink.

There doesnt need to be a fee on the appartment itself, thats why it was removed. Also, instance keys would work better if the risk vs reward was there.
How to fix instance keys? All of us have to risk all our ped first, and then if we crash we don't get anything at all from the instance. Mindark also won't help us(I have a case open for many months with no replies, they reply to everything else) if an instance fucks up. We need to have the ability to resume our instances even if we have 5 already running from previous attempts and need to come back later with more skills, or something similar to give us less hazard to these. There also needs to be enough loot so you don't just get spanked to hell running them.
I've also already suggested EP blueprint removal is absolutely necessary.

I strongly concur with your player>player>ma base, i think it should last even longer than that at times.

On the other hand with the teleporters...the 0.1 would be ok if we did not have to pay for our current teleporters. If caly got a new continent far away from the others with deadly radiation preventing flying vehicles, and large amounts of other NEW content to justify us paying for it, then that changes things, but I do agree the teleporter system could kind of be repurposed, as long as we don't break what already works. The game is simply far too expensive right now for anyone to have any chance to have any fun it feels.

Can we have voting terminals back in game if theres a vote required - rather than use Facebook?


As to a 'proposed' Teleport fee, players will work out which is cheaper, on foot, vehicle or teleporting and avoid using teleporters.

Nice work Mr President - assuming you were remotely serious (I have my doubts).

Fifth said:

The goal seems to be to shut down EU for good. Doesn't hurt to try, right?

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I sincerely do not wish to see that, so I have revised it slightly. The fact is mindark DID introduce 'slots' with explosive projectiles, and THEY are risking getting the game messed with due to THEIR poor decision. It is not us that is responsible to stay silent when something is wrong if they are asked kindly by the entire community and do not remove it for their own financial games. All our money is in here, and we know we're not making peds out our ears as average players, lets try to bring reform while we still can.
At times it is necessary to bring light to reality, in order to bring about change. I do thank you for bringing up the light that needed to be adjusted slightly on the matter of explosive projectiles though.

Though fifth, you ought to be a bit more constructive than simply neg repping me saying 'idiot'. It is mindark that is risking our money with risky behavior, not our duty to stay silent hoping they 'don't get seen' doing something you even feel is sketchy and don't want in the public light, when we can change now to make it perfectly legitimate again by simply having EP4 utilize a resource that's mined and overly common, a consolation prize resource(oil anyone? its at 100.25% on trade channel)

Mega said:

Can we have voting terminals back in game if theres a vote required - rather than use Facebook?


As to a 'proposed' Teleport fee, players will work out which is cheaper, on foot, vehicle or teleporting and avoid using teleporters.

Nice work Mr President - assuming you were remotely serious (I have my doubts).

Click to expand...

Agreed it was such a nice touch even though they never really used it seriously and never listened worth a damn.

hottygurl said:

First of all, I have many solutions for these questions you have.....

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So we basically agree in principal that older systems need to be part of the solution in general but you favour a addon approach over a revamp. The main problem i see with a addon approach is the same reason why you like it actually, the optional aspect of it , i dont think a optional route will be effective enough as to few will use it unless you make the buffs large enough that they are mandatory to be successful in the given proffesion. In which case its no longer a question of optional content, so the only difference would be that we put the economic burden on a specific group(say hunters) rather then the population at large.

The main reason why i want to shift decay/mu away from hunting/mining isent really to squeeze people for as much as possible rather i want to do the opposite. If more decay and mu is generated within crafted or looted items via clothing/furniture/vehicle decay etc. and then distributed widely and if significant enough it should be possible to up the percent return via loot to "balance it out" to the current level of decay generation.

So in short from the main activities people would feel less pressure from bad loot, mu would circulate longer, old proffessions like coloring would get a boost and people like me who want to buy fancy clothing etc would pay a, to the average person, insignificant amount of MU and "upkeep" costs to the proffesion who made the item in the first place rather then the repair unit.

Oh and i cant back down on the whole player to player rental idea, the "slumlord" title is way to cool .

Cheers
Zweshi

I just like Cake, i hate marmite but man do i love cake.

Thats my opinion out there anyway.

melander said:

So we basically agree in principal that older systems need to be part of the solution in general but you favour a addon approach over a revamp. The main problem i see with a addon approach is the same reason why you like it actually, the optional aspect of it , i dont think a optional route will be effective enough as to few will use it unless you make the buffs large enough that they are mandatory to be successful in the given proffesion. In which case its no longer a question of optional content, so the only difference would be that we put the economic burden on a specific group(say hunters) rather then the population at large.

The main reason why i want to shift decay/mu away from hunting/mining isent really to squeeze people for as much as possible rather i want to do the opposite. If more decay and mu is generated within crafted or looted items via clothing/furniture/vehicle decay etc. and then distributed widely and if significant enough it should be possible to up the percent return via loot to "balance it out" to the current level of decay generation.

So in short from the main activities people would feel less pressure from bad loot, mu would circulate longer, old proffessions like coloring would get a boost and people like me who want to buy fancy clothing etc would pay a, to the average person, insignificant amount of MU and "upkeep" costs to the proffesion who made the item in the first place rather then the repair unit.

Oh and i cant back down on the whole player to player rental idea, the "slumlord" title is way to cool .

Cheers
Zweshi

Click to expand...

You have some amazing ideas, but I meant optional as in allow teleportation for tokens between caly and FOMA/Crystal Palace(we can fly there if we want), or add new teleporters to a new continent on certain planets that incentivized us to go there with good markup and constant design but paying with tokens was the cost of traveling to the area. The basic system we know already needs to have things like port atlantis, twin peaks and other critical destinations always unlocked, though.

Can you just sign me up against any change in this game so I can get back to my grind. I got just 10 k more punies to kill.

There are no such things as referendums under an absolute monarchy.

Svarog said:

There are no such things as referendums under an absolute monarchy.

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Then let us lead a push, and if it need be a full out revolt, in order to place in our own effective player based congress. Your wallet is an incredible voting item.

hottygurl said:

A referandum was created earlier since we do not have a voice yet, but our virtual presidency(is it a democracy or dictatorship people?) is already taking actions against the will and better health of the Entropia Universe.

Please post only CONSTRUCTIVE comments in this thread so that as a community, we can clarify our voice, evolve this petition, and ultimately get it signed by a major population majority and pushed to all those involved.

https://www.change.org/p/jan-welter...onesty-and-no-taxation-without-representation

This is in reference to ongoing systemic problems with Mindark's management of the platform, flaws in our promised virtual democracy, the fact we have no representation in VR before actions are being performed by our leadership in our name and decisions pushed on us, and more. Please have a read, I encourage friendly conversation via PM.
See post on:
http://www.presidentofvirtualreality.com/


Since they want this to be cross platform and 'VR wide', that should be the scope of our movement to fight for change as well, starting here before it spreads and cripples our Virtual Universe or worse.



All things we pay for in this game should be based on their entertainment value since we are losing peds doing it. We should not be paying for basic functionality.
Why is mindark not opening up their loot pools since they clearly rake us across the coals every time we try to do anything with an average of at least 10% loss? If they want to create virtual jobs, should they not be stimulating us to burn peds versus choking off how many we can cycle? If we lost less per ped cycled, we could burn more weapons, use more resources, create more things, and have a healthier economy with more balance. The greed has gone too far.
Give us a voice as promised by having citizen players able to be voted to represent us in a legislative branch, and we don't have a need to raise public attention on change.org.

Click to expand...

We have a governmental forum on the way, and as such I feel we may be getting a bit of a voice after all. If indeed we are getting representation on the road to establishing said representation in an official method within our Universe, then this petition should be reworked and re-launched as the traits of the government are shifting away from autocratic.
Let us hope for more forward progress and an actual established parliment/congress for players to run for office in within the very near future. I would love to run.

hottygurl said:

Though fifth, you ought to be a bit more constructive than simply neg repping me saying ''idiot'.

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You changed your mind. Appreciate that, thanx!
Apparently you are able to see the consequences of your actions afterall. With a little help from your friends.

I think blackmailing the developers, directly or indirectly, is never a smart thing to do.
You never know the whole truth. Besides, there's always other ppl who have different opinion than you. There's no need to force your opinion upon others. Just express your POV, bring forth your arguments and then let it go. If it works, it works, if not, well... then that's how it is.

I won't acknowledge ND as EU president unless we have true and fair elections within EU not a facebook poll.

hottygurl said:

We have a governmental forum on the way, ...

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No ND asked MindArk if they would make one unless I see a post from MA saying it will happen then it's just talk.

SpikeBlack said:

I won't acknowledge ND as EU president unless

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Why acknowledge him at all if he's already he's already been declared dead? http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/neverdie-is-dead-long-live-tutankhamun.9232/

you guy know what ma wants the money for the deed there going to sell that number one poeple think there going top get good income from the deed more investment and more poeple sitting on deed to colect revenue

its time to get rid all my junk in my storage

if they think its going to create jobs they cant even make the economie work now whit all the profession

they should make amo cost more so the top gun cost 1 ped per shot so that will bring mu for loot make mining 100 peds per attemp and crafting 100 ped to make one item also

all nonsens

daniel danny laville add my name

SpikeBlack said:

I won't acknowledge ND as EU president unless we have true and fair elections within EU not a facebook poll.



No ND asked MindArk if they would make one unless I see a post from MA saying it will happen then it's just talk.

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....How about you atleast give it you know, 48-72 hours before we start screaming again that Mindark isn't listening in any way shape or form, and then organize ourselves in an orderly manner to try to have our voices heard? They need to be able to hear a bit of a difference between when we're waiting for them to comply with our demands, and when we are pushing to have our demands met. It's called political responsibility as an activist.
The key is that the players did not raise sufficient protest previously to the election, we just hoped for a solution, and now people wish to complain about the results instead of making an effort to correct their mistake of complacency previous. We have what we have now whether we like it or not, burying our heads in the sand changes nothing as it will just once again breed complacency, and lead us further down the same hole that we have found ourselves in now.

JD RACING said:

you guy know what ma wants the money for the deed there going to sell that number one poeple think there going top get good income from the deed more investment and more poeple sitting on deed to colect revenue

its time to get rid all my junk in my storage

if they think its going to create jobs they cant even make the economie work now whit all the profession

they should make amo cost more so the top gun cost 1 ped per shot so that will bring mu for loot make mining 100 peds per attemp and crafting 100 ped to make one item also

all nonsens

daniel danny laville add my name

Click to expand...

You have to take the time out and effort out to sign it yourself. The signature cannot be added for you.
Your post is a bit hard to understand as well, and not a bit constructive. It also is hardly relevant, do you wish for a personal whine thread too?
Propose changes, lets make forward progress. Fuck it I'm out isn't a useful post in any sense, it would be better off simply not made as it detracts from us trying to accomplish things for those of us that are serious in attempting to make a change.

I never sign petitions because numbers don't make an idea good or bad.

I'd however consider a 48-hour preemptive strike against TP fees even being mulled.

Disclaimer: As a believer in contracts I strongly oppose strikes IRL but in this case, I have no contract with MA or President Neverdie that this strike would breach.

Personally I think that is a great idea!

I played lots of games without a teleporting system or where this service costed a fee (for example LOTRO, to name one that is a rather big and old name in the industry) and I think is only fair... teleporting is not something we need (everyone could just walk or use personal vehicles to get from point A to point B), but more a convenience (allows us to save time, avoid death risks, etc) and as any convenience/luxury it can easily been charged for.

And if the money generated from people using to pay money to save time would be use to reward people willing to devote time to make money then, by all means necessarily, I stand behind my president and his idea.

I have proposed teleporters and people didn't like it saying there are too many already and going by themselves (even if over and over again the same distance) is preferable for the sense of gameplay. Now somebody comes up with an idea to roll back some of the over-convenience and people don't like it. Make up your mind already.

I said in ND's thread that I'm against an outright cash fee, but I could live with paying a few bottles of sweat or whatever in-game resource, that would create an opportunity for someone else to provide the stuff.

San said:

I have proposed teleporters and people didn't like it saying there are too many already and going by themselves (even if over and over again the same distance) is preferable for the sense of gameplay. Now somebody comes up with an idea to roll back some of the over-convenience and people don't like it. Make up your mind already.

I said in ND's thread that I'm against an outright cash fee, but I could live with paying a few bottles of sweat or whatever in-game resource, that would create an opportunity for someone else to provide the stuff.

Click to expand...

I feel this approach actually would be an extremely positive approach that would add a much needed sink to sweat, which is a much needed early method of sustainment we ALL need to support if we want to have any hope of any community during these times of great change.

I really do hope MA will take this all as a joke tbh... Thank god I'm not actively playing anymore. If MA actually listens to this guy it will be Rocktropia all over again and the end of EU.

How about this, they run this idea in trial mode on rocktropia FIRST. See how much or how little this idea generates.

In all honesty I do not like ND or his ideas or his planet. He a shady as fuck money grabbing piece of human shaped garbage. I did give his planet a chance, I'm not going back for a last look even if its announced that all the servers will be permanently shut down.


IF this idea comes to fruition, and while we are being honest even the beta version on RT would take at least 3-5 years to be implemented. MA's track record really sux.

I'm not totally opposed at this idea. I'm opposed to a full out flat tax on teleporters. However if this tax was only imposed on older stronger players and not starters.
It should be based on professional level ,the tax start at lvl 50 hit/dmg for hunters lvl 25 surv/pros/trsr (who cares about Crafters the don't move once they find a quite spot.)

As the player grows in lvl and so does their ped cycle. Except for some filthy casuals. The tax should also start low and go up with the professions.

Tbh I barely teleport around, I visit the daily mission terminal some times. If there are revinue share deeds I'd probably invest in them if there is a fixed quanty and the share % was around 50% anything lower would likely not be worth the investment. The other 50% should go to loot in mob raids on teleporters on top of the existing 90% returns. Thats the "job" part I assume. MA/PP should not get a % cut, the deed sales should suffice.

All teleports to main player hubs like icarus port atlantis and twins should remain free of tax to every one IMO.