NEVERDIE : you are not my president !

montekis · May 4, 2016

How can he be someone's president when he's not even a president. :laugh:

Presidents are elected, and that bullshit they pulled was far from an election.

Nunoko · May 4, 2016

I thought this whole VR President is just a cosmetic thing to be the first VR president on a small platform. I don't know if it holds value but I guess companies want to patent everything.

bigdaddy trim · May 4, 2016

qamori said:
There wasnt any communication!
We had to fill a form to receive all updates and gain the right to vote... and not 1 update was sent.

If I wasnt trying to sell everything quickly and cash out, I would tell you how I really feel about this scheme.

I got a email March 21

The Polls Are Open
Voting in the election for the first President of Virtual Reality is now underway. You may log into your Facebook Account and then Visit http://presidentofvirtualreality.com to register your Vote.
The voting is being conducted via a poll APP hosted on our Facebook page @ http://facebook.com/VRPresident. Each vote will count as one vote.
The votes will not be weighted. All votes will be audited at the end of the election to best ensure that the voters are real people and not shill accounts. Once again thank you for participating in this historic election.

The Jetman · May 4, 2016

bigdaddy trim said:
I got a email March 21

The Polls Are Open
Voting in the election for the first President of Virtual Reality is now underway. You may log into your Facebook Account and then Visit http://presidentofvirtualreality.com to register your Vote.
The voting is being conducted via a poll APP hosted on our Facebook page @ http://facebook.com/VRPresident. Each vote will count as one vote.
The votes will not be weighted. All votes will be audited at the end of the election to best ensure that the voters are real people and not shill accounts. Once again thank you for participating in this historic election.

interesting, was that from MA, ND or mailing list for the PoVR site? i didn't get one but it could have landed in junk.

it was however all over PCF when the voting started, thats how i found out

KullXP · May 4, 2016

BBJ for President???

:lolup:

Should he run? And Strike to impeach? :smoke:

bigdaddy trim · May 4, 2016

The Jetman said:
interesting, was that from MA, ND or mailing list for the PoVR site? i didn't get one but it could have landed in junk.

it was however all over PCF when the voting started, thats how i found out

presidentofvirtualreality.com

its gmail account that is diffrent form email acount that is i use for EU AND facebook

IvoL · May 4, 2016

DoA said:
Anyway, I did voted, I did convinced friends (both players and non-players to vote) and no, I was not paid for this, so yeah, Neverdie actually is my president.

Upon second thought - or rather read - a few questions come to mind given the above:

why would one coerce or even convince non-players to vote for this?
why would one let oneself be coerced or convinced to vote for this if not an active participant/player?
how many of the votes cast have come from actual players and how many or "outsiders"?
what does this say about the whole election? also when taken into consideration how many actual players have not been able to even cast their votes...

...and, most importantly, based on the above questions and posts in this and other threads:
what - if anything - is ND president of?
where does his authority begin and where does it end?
does he even have the authority to present clearly PE/EU-related plans given that he (apparently) has been elected outisde of PE/EU, by (at least partially) non-PE/EU players, and that his presidency is that "of VR" rather than of PE/EU...

The Earth-bound United Nations has a division called Electoral Assistance Division (EAD) that can assist in a democratic election process. They can also supply independent observers before, during, and after the elections. Too bad none of the planets is UN-member, may that could have prevented this whole charade...

bigdaddy trim · May 4, 2016

IvoL said:
what - if anything - is ND president of?
where does his authority begin and where does it end?
does he even have the authority to present clearly PE/EU-related plans given that he (apparently) has been elected outisde of PE/EU, by (at least partially) non-PE/EU players, and that his presidency is that "of VR" rather than of PE/EU...

No one actually sure what the VU presdeint job is as MA have never said or even what power if any he has.

Count Joe · May 4, 2016

the more this is discussed the more acknowledgement the whole thing gets.

ND is just a guy that payed to change his name.

Mindark is the company and we are the customers playing their game - nothing has change.

CaptSpaulding · May 5, 2016

As mentioned earlier, the structure topped by the floating "V" is the old voting kiosk. Oldsters will remember them in most major settlements on the old pre-asteroid strike Planet Calypso. They were useless since MA never put anything to a user vote. Now, after all these years, we are asked to cast a ballot on something as significant as choosing a president and we don't even get a revival of the system that was supposed to facilitate in-game voting?

Screw that.

Look, Neverdie recently issued a press release (since no legitimate digital news outlet will cover him) comparing himself to Donald Trump. This is essentially true. Like Trump Neverdie has been very successful within EU. Also like Trump Neverdie is known for his tacky self-promotion, failure to deliver on his grandiose ideas, trashy Kardashian sense of style and value, and holds a negative public image with a significant portion of the EU player base. That MA insists on placing Neverdie front and center as its ambassador to the rest of the gaming world is a profound embarrassment.

Go away, Neverdie. Go finish Planet Michael Jackson or whatever equally bizarre project for which you think the world is clamoring. We here in EU have already heard of you. If you need more validation go bother Eve Online or one of the Star Wars MMOs.

OZtwo · May 5, 2016

CaptSpaulding said:
As mentioned earlier, the structure topped by the floating "V" is the old voting kiosk. Oldsters will remember them in most major settlements on the old pre-asteroid strike Planet Calypso. They were useless since MA never put anything to a user vote. Now, after all these years, we are asked to cast a ballot on something as significant as choosing a president and we don't even get a revival of the system that was supposed to facilitate in-game voting?

Screw that.

Look, Neverdie recently issued a press release (since no legitimate digital news outlet will cover him) comparing himself to Donald Trump. This is essentially true. Like Trump Neverdie has been very successful within EU. Also like Trump Neverdie is known for his tacky self-promotion, failure to deliver on his grandiose ideas, trashy Kardashian sense of style and value, and holds a negative public image with a significant portion of the EU player base. That MA insists on placing Neverdie front and center as its ambassador to the rest of the gaming world is a profound embarrassment.

Go away, Neverdie. Go finish Planet Michael Jackson or whatever equally bizarre project for which you think the world is clamoring. We here in EU have already heard of you. If you need more validation go bother Eve Online or one of the Star Wars MMOs.

Sad to say but I look at ND more as Ted Neverdie Cruz myself. Sad but well, he started it. Soon he will have his very own game to play by himself if he keeps this up.

DannyO · May 5, 2016

I have not been following any thread's relating to making Neverdie president, I hope its just a bad April fool joke.

I am pretty sure MA would not want someone who has abused his position as a planet partner to act as president.

But then again, I guess we all know that people in these sort of positions are good at lining their own pockets!!

DoA · May 6, 2016

IvoL said:
Upon second thought - or rather read - a few questions come to mind given the above:

why would one coerce or even convince non-players to vote for this?

why would one let oneself be coerced or convinced to vote for this if not an active participant/player?

how many of the votes cast have come from actual players and how many or "outsiders"?

what does this say about the whole election? also when taken into consideration how many actual players have not been able to even cast their votes...

...and, most importantly, based on the above questions and posts in this and other threads:

what - if anything - is ND president of?
where does his authority begin and where does it end?
does he even have the authority to present clearly PE/EU-related plans given that he (apparently) has been elected outisde of PE/EU, by (at least partially) non-PE/EU players, and that his presidency is that "of VR" rather than of PE/EU...

A lot of people saw the elections as a joke and didn't bothered to run for the office, join the mailing list on the site or even vote; now same people come here and complain about the elected president. But truth being said, anyone not living in a bubble could and should have at least heard about elections - they were announced a few months in advance, they were in the official EU news (which were distributed to all planets forums) and there were quite a few discussions about them here on the forum.

And, as I said before, is sad that we only had one candidate and not a real competition, but, again, is not Neverdie's fault that no one else put their money where their mouth was and run for the office (and, as I also said before, $1,000 may be a lot of money, but I think it was a reasonable amount to assure there won't be 100 trolls running in elections, and, for someone serious, and with enough support from the "community", it was just a matter of finding 100 supporters to donate $10 each).

Now why I convinced friends, non-players, to vote... well, unlike others I took these elections seriously and I thought that they could potentially lead to great things, like to really have a President of VR and not only a President of EU; maybe one day be able to "travel" from EU to SL, EVE or SC... and for this very purpose I think is fair that the voting was not limited to only EU players (requiring an EU account), but practically to everyone else who shares an interest into virtual reality. Sure, even a Facebook poll left some people outside, and that is regretful, but nowadays 95% of people connected to the Internet have a Facebook account, and the one year old account requirement was a good safe mechanic for avoiding votes abuses and manipulations (via fake/automated accounts, etc).

Now about authority... TBH, I doubt that he has any authority (and I haven't seen anywhere mentioned that he has any authority); yes, he can proposed things (as it was this one with the IPO of the Public Transport) and his voice may be heard louder than other peoples voices, but ultimately is MAs decision what will they implement and what not - they may already be on board with ND for this, they may just tag along or they may just dump his idea. And why propose things for EU... well, see it like this... his title is "President of Virtual Reality", EU is part of "Virtual Reality", so is logic he can make suggestions... is like the President of United States can make suggestion about Florida legislation, since Florida is part of United States.

Now Neverdie seem to actually be willing to listen and discuss with people on the official forum so, maybe, instead of acting childish (not directed at the guy I quoted, but generally talking) and start crying and negating everything, it would be more productive to try to discuss with him and propose alternative solutions, adjustments, etc. For years people complained that MA is not listening, now there's someone that actually listens and discuss with people, so why not take advantage of this?

Sionkiewicz · May 6, 2016

Let me break this down a bit..

DoA said:
A lot of people saw the elections as a joke and didn't bothered to run for the office, join the mailing list on the site or even vote; now same people come here and complain about the elected president. But truth being said, anyone not living in a bubble could and should have at least heard about elections - they were announced a few months in advance, they were in the official EU news (which were distributed to all planets forums) and there were quite a few discussions about them here on the forum.

The election was a joke. He is President of VR, not EU. Please remember that. He can have fun trying to rule over his unknown VR world as far as I care. The election was a farce as it was obvious who was the chosen winner by MA by who had his sites setup prior to the announcement.

DoA said:
And, as I said before, is sad that we only had one candidate and not a real competition, but, again, is not Neverdie's fault that no one else put their money where their mouth was and run for the office (and, as I also said before, $1,000 may be a lot of money, but I think it was a reasonable amount to assure there won't be 100 trolls running in elections, and, for someone serious, and with enough support from the "community", it was just a matter of finding 100 supporters to donate $10 each).

Why put money into something you know you are going to lose? Really???

DoA said:
Now why I convinced friends, non-players, to vote... well, unlike others I took these elections seriously and I thought that they could potentially lead to great things, like to really have a President of VR and not only a President of EU; maybe one day be able to "travel" from EU to SL, EVE or SC... and for this very purpose I think is fair that the voting was not limited to only EU players (requiring an EU account), but practically to everyone else who shares an interest into virtual reality. Sure, even a Facebook poll left some people outside, and that is regretful, but nowadays 95% of people connected to the Internet have a Facebook account, and the one year old account requirement was a good safe mechanic for avoiding votes abuses and manipulations (via fake/automated accounts, etc).

This goes back to my first section. His span of influence presently is VR and doesn't afford him any abilities with EU. If it did, he would have an ethical issue serving in a position which could be used for his own benefit as a Planet Partner. Thus, this proposal he is spouting about is just that.. a proposal no matter what his self-generated Press releases say. A Bad, not thought out, riddled with holes (did I say bad before) proposal.

DoA said:
Now about authority... TBH, I doubt that he has any authority (and I haven't seen anywhere mentioned that he has any authority); yes, he can proposed things (as it was this one with the IPO of the Public Transport) and his voice may be heard louder than other peoples voices, but ultimately is MAs decision what will they implement and what not - they may already be on board with ND for this, they may just tag along or they may just dump his idea. And why propose things for EU... well, see it like this... his title is "President of Virtual Reality", EU is part of "Virtual Reality", so is logic he can make suggestions... is like the President of United States can make suggestion about Florida legislation, since Florida is part of United States.

No, this is a little different.. This is more like the President of the United Nations, being voted in by representatives from around the world, wanting to put a new tax on transportation in Russia. The individual has no authority to do so and the Russians can pretty much ignore him.

The President of the US has some authority and influence over Florida since it is part of the US. The people of Florida actually had a choice and facilities were given to them to vote for the US President. The same cannot be said for our VR President. I've never seen an election where un-named candidates were proposed and doubt that it would pass muster as a fair and open election. But hey, it's just a game, right?

DoA said:
Now Neverdie seem to actually be willing to listen and discuss with people on the official forum so, maybe, instead of acting childish (not directed at the guy I quoted, but generally talking) and start crying and negating everything, it would be more productive to try to discuss with him and propose alternative solutions, adjustments, etc. For years people complained that MA is not listening, now there's someone that actually listens and discuss with people, so why not take advantage of this?

Again, it's just a proposal from the President of VR. No one has to agree with him. Being honest, we don't even have to discuss it with him as he hold no office within EU.

MA, at least at this time, is in charge of this game and we, as customers, need to make sure that our feelings on this proposal are heard by them.

matthew · May 6, 2016

Sionkiewicz said:
...
The election was a farce as it was obvious who was the chosen winner by MA by who had his sites setup prior to the announcement.

This is kind of an empty comment because anyone could have run to be president and won. MA didn't choose the winner, most people except ND just chose not to run for candidacy... Also there were additional options on the voting form, people didn't have to vote for ND they could have voted for candidate B or C.

Regarding ND knowing about the election in advance planet partners partnered with MA to show support, these partnerships must have been discussed prior to the announcement and hence why the website domain was registered prior to the announcement. No conspiracy there. There was nothing in the rules that said a PP or other official employees of MA or PPs could not run for president.. If Arkadians wanted they could have rallied around Dave to get him to run, Cryene, Tulan etc all the same. Nothing to stop other PPs taking up the initiative.

The original announcement suggested the voting would be held in game so most people, probably including ND, believed this would be the case prior to running as a candidate. MA then changed the rules at some later stage after the candidates were known. Nobody knew they were signing up for a facebook "sham" vote at the point of signing up. So I feel it is completely unfair to blame the candidate for the outcome of the election. The candidate only signs up for what they believe the vote to be and the voters/organisers do the rest.

Sionkiewicz · May 6, 2016

matthew said:
This is kind of an empty comment because anyone could have run to be president and won. MA didn't choose the winner, most people except ND just chose not to run for candidacy... Also there were additional options on the voting form, people didn't have to vote for ND they could have voted for candidate B or C.

I guess we can agree to disagree on that one..

DoA · May 6, 2016

Sionkiewicz said:
Again, it's just a proposal from the President of VR. No one has to agree with him. Being honest, we don't even have to discuss it with him as he hold no office within EU.

MA, at least at this time, is in charge of this game and we, as customers, need to make sure that our feelings on this proposal are heard by them.

I agree with you up to a point.

It is indeed a proposal from President of VR; MA is in charge of EU and they may chose to simply ignore the proposal all together. So one may easily chose to ignore ND and contact MA and let them know what they think about this - personally I did sent a support ticket stating my agreement with the proposed idea and letting them know that I hope it will be implemented; not only that, but once again I tried to rally people to do the same; and there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from the opposing side to do the same. That is a rather risky thing to do though if you ask me, you kinda force MA's hand to either accept or reject/ignore ND's proposal; sure, it may end up working as you wish, but it may end up the other way too.

There is another option though. Ignoring the fact that you like ND or not, that you liked the elections or not, that you voted for him or not or that you trust in the elections or not, fact remains that he has a direct connection with MA, better than most (if not all) of us. And, well, he seems willing to listen, to discuss, to compromise... so why instead of being a nay sayer not try to join the discussion that he proposed, explain to him what you think is good, what you think is bad, propose alternatives... basically anything that falls under "constructive brainstorming"... this way there's a way higher chance to manage to come to a solution that would please everyone and not force MA to have it either black or white.

~CHOPPER~ · May 6, 2016

I agree.
He isn't my president.

OZtwo · May 6, 2016

DoA said:
There is another option though. Ignoring the fact that you like ND or not, that you liked the elections or not, that you voted for him or not or that you trust in the elections or not, fact remains that he has a direct connection with MA, better than most (if not all) of us. And, well, he seems willing to listen, to discuss, to compromise... so why instead of being a nay sayer not try to join the discussion that he proposed, explain to him what you think is good, what you think is bad, propose alternatives... basically anything that falls under "constructive brainstorming"... this way there's a way higher chance to manage to come to a solution that would please everyone and not force MA to have it either black or white.

This is again very simple to answer. I need for you to look at the dates some of the people here have joined this forum. Many more people here know exactly who Neverdie is and well it may help you to understand it a bit more.

I understand that you really would like this free money but again as some have pointed out and not really brought to light is that this would not be free money as you think. You will need to spend a LOT of money on the missions from the mobs that will drop the tokens (more or less forgot the exact details). So yes you will get paid by the hour to hunt the mobs that will at the end cost you well over what you can afford with your current deposit budget.

Fifth · May 6, 2016

DoA said:
... personally I did sent a support ticket stating my agreement with the proposed idea and letting them know that I hope it will be implemented; not only that, but once again I tried to rally people to do the same; and there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from the opposing side to do the same. That is a rather risky thing to do though if you ask me, you kinda force MA's hand...

If it was real life politics I would agree. Here, no need to worry, no need to make support cases, none of that really matters.

MA has been through many important changes over the years. They know if they manage to piss us off too bad we'll vote with our wallets.
The only thing they are really worried about is how serious is the damage if they go for it.
Should they decide to go for it, they will most likely throw us a bone - make the tax smaller, leave some TP's untaxed and add interplanetary TP's hoping then most of us will swallow it and the damage to the economy will be minimal. Or they might decide it's too risky and drop the whole thing.

The voice of the nondepoers doesn't carry much weight either way, nor does the outcry from those who don't play and only post on the forums. We don't know what will be the reaction of the majority of the active depositing players. I would predict the economy will definitely take a hit but it prolly won't kill the game.
Hope it's not wishful thinking...

DoA · May 6, 2016

Fifth said:
If it was real life politics I would agree. Here, no need to worry, no need to make support cases, none of that really matters.

MA has been through many important changes over the years. They know if they manage to piss us off too bad we'll vote with our wallets.
The only thing they are really worried about is how serious is the damage if they go for it.
Should they decide to go for it, they will most likely throw us a bone - make the tax smaller, leave some TP's untaxed and add interplanetary TP's hoping then most of us will swallow it and the damage to the economy will be minimal. Or they might decide it's too risky and drop the whole thing.

The voice of the nondepoers doesn't carry much weight either way, nor does the outcry from those who don't play and only post on the forums. We don't know what will be the reaction of the majority of the active depositing players. I would predict the economy will definitely take a hit but it prolly won't kill the game.
Hope it's not wishful thinking...

I will look at some historical data, from another game, but one quite similar with this one (about same age, also Swedish company, not really RCE, but pretty close - you could buy in-game currency from shop and you can and are encourage to sell currency/avatars/deeds/items to other players for RL$ via official site).

On May 2nd 2013, the cost-to-play in said game raised with 60% (subscription raised from 10 to 16 euros, price for 10 silver raised from 10 to 16 euros); that was definitely not something optional or which one could adapt to, but an unavoidable huge price hike. I think I don't have to tell you how many cries there were over it - people threatening to quit, predicting the apocalypse and everything else I saw here, just at a much bigger scale.

Here's the graph with what happen with population (before and after said event):

Population indeed dropped by about 10% (mostly alts, since alts were allowed in that game) in the first two months, then reached a top bottom of about 15% loss during summer.

After 8 months the population was back to old values; after 14 months, following the connecting of a new server, population reached an all time peak; even after the excitement of the new area worn off, the population was still higher than before the price increase.

And we talk about an unavoidable, 60% increase in cost-to-play; how many of you could realistically say that the TP cost will increase your cost to play with even 10%?

That's one of the facts on which I base my estimation that most people that cry to quit and predict EU death if this is implementing right now, will just swallow it, adapt and move on if it actually happens. I'm not worried at all about these apocalyptic scenarios, just like I was not worried at all about the end of WURM on that May 2nd or the end of the world on December 12, 2012.

T79x · May 6, 2016

matthew said:
Regarding ND knowing about the election in advance planet partners partnered with MA to show support, these partnerships must have been discussed prior to the announcement and hence why the website domain was registered prior to the announcement. No conspiracy there. There was nothing in the rules that said a PP or other official employees of MA or PPs could not run for president.. If Arkadians wanted they could have rallied around Dave to get him to run, Cryene, Tulan etc all the same. Nothing to stop other PPs taking up the initiative.

its quite funny that there is NO conflict of interest ...

standart none of empolye and fammily members cant participate is added allmost to anytning but here ....

Rumsponge · May 6, 2016

DoA said:
And, as I said before, is sad that we only had one candidate and not a real competition, but, again, is not Neverdie's fault that no one else put their money where their mouth was and run for the office (and, as I also said before, $1,000 may be a lot of money{...}

I like the way that, in parroting an argument that others have attempted many times, you accidentally manage to make a very important point without understanding why or how.

Let's examine this one...

It costs $1000 to enter an "election"-

A) for an amorphous position with no authority and no existing support from the vast majority of the players in EU, much less the millions of other users, designers, creators, suppliers of virtual reality products.

B) that was hacked together and who's rules changed on the fly,

C) received only the smallest amount of obligatory support from other Planet Partners or the parent company,

D) and was for a position that features no compensation whatsoever

I think I agree with you on this one. The $1000 fee was there exactly for the purpose of excluding other candidates.

One has to wonder what motivation anyone would have for paying that fee? I suppose that someone who was a self-promoting, self-aggrandizing clown could not only justify the fee, but possibly even invent the entire thing, tayloring it specifically to his own goals and financial benefit.

I guess there could be other reasons. Please discuss...

matthew · May 6, 2016

I understand what you mean about conflict of interest but as the job is unpaid it would be a very large commitment for most average participants. The PPs are in a unique position whereby being a president on VR also falls nicely within scope of their day to day job.

They have the most to gain by being a good and active president, they already have contact with MA on regular basis (I presume), so they would make ideal president candidates imo.

If we elected a non-depositor sweater as president then they could use their powers to try and implement jobs as well to better gain themselves. So everyone who has ties with EU has a conflict of interest, it is unavoidable, therefore why not let the PPs have a go. They understand the workings on a different level to us anyway and so might be able to make more informed suggestions.

If MA go bust we lose some peds and our fun time, a PP loses their job and their company goes bust. I say they have a vested interest in the success of EU rather than its destruction

.

T79x · May 6, 2016

matthew said:
I understand what you mean about conflict of interest but as the job is unpaid

The first President of Virtual Reality will be committed to a four year term of office with the possibility of one re-election opportunity. The President will work with an initial operating budget generously supplied by Entropia Universe; Mindark will donate a portion of the annual Entropia Universe GNP to fund the formation of the Office of President of Virtual Reality and help promote strategic alliances between the virtual reality government and real-world groups and institutions. As more companies and organizations join the VR coalition, the budget is expected to increase to fund further initiatives and governmental positions. Additionally, Entropia Universe will be implementing its proprietary secure Virtual Democracy voting system that will set a shining example for real-world governments, and will allow citizens of virtual reality to vote on important issues and elect leaders to represent their interests.

unpaid ? whit generously given money to waste on what he wants.

OZtwo · May 6, 2016

DoA said:
That's one of the facts on which I base my estimation that most people that cry to quit and predict EU death if this is implementing right now, will just swallow it, adapt and move on if it actually happens. I'm not worried at all about these apocalyptic scenarios, just like I was not worried at all about the end of WURM on that May 2nd or the end of the world on December 12, 2012.

Yet here you are and not in that game anymore? You say you had a debate with the GM about something. Let me guess, it was when he told you that you could not sell items in game for RL money?

(BTW that there was a joke..so slow down..no need to a massive reply about nothing)

Yes I know you feed off us here on the forum..this is fine..and well it's kind of fun to feed of you as well

When I asked you point blank if you wouldn't mind if this game was a non-RCE game you do remember what you told me right? Yes that you think this game would be much better off not being a RCE. (watch it I keep logs)

Two reasons you are keeping this debate active is 1) you are having a great time with it. and 2) you really think you are going to get free money from this.

As I told you, you will not be getting any free money from this because that free money you are thinking about with that wage will cost you a LOT of depositing money. That paying wage is for mobs that will be well out of your deposit range.

Rumsponge · May 6, 2016

DoA said:
That's one of the facts on which I base my estimation that most people that cry to quit and predict EU death if this is implementing right now, will just swallow it, adapt and move on if it actually happens. I'm not worried at all about these apocalyptic scenarios, just like I was not worried at all about the end of WURM on that May 2nd or the end of the world on December 12, 2012.

So, what would their playerbase have been like had they not increased the fee? You somehow are presenting these statistics like they actually prove something.

To my understanding of the information you provided, they increased the fees and the population began an immediate and substantial decline. Then, they announced a "Loyalty Program"(?) and managed to regain about half of what they lost before the steady decline resumed. After that there was this X Conn thing, the subscriber numbers returned for a short time and then resumed their decline. One has to wonder how high their numbers would be had they not had such a dramatic (and possibly desperate) price increase?

DoA · May 6, 2016

OZtwo said:
When I asked you point blank if you wouldn't mind if this game was a non-RCE game you do remember what you told me right? Yes that you think this game would be much better off not being a RCE. (watch it I keep logs)

LIES again! And that already seems to be a pattern; you make up / add / interpret things then claim them as truths.

I never share private chats, but since said discussion was on a public channel, I have no problem sharing it:

2016-05-05 17:13:26 [#arkadia] [Daughter of Anarchy] Why are you even so bothered about user bound items?
2016-05-05 17:13:41 [#arkadia] [Daughter of Anarchy] if anything, it is good for the game - someone quitting, couldn't cash out them
2016-05-05 17:13:45 [#arkadia] [Kent OZtwo OpaloMan] well the same can be asked about you

2016-05-05 17:13:52 [#arkadia] [Kent OZtwo OpaloMan] RCE should not have userbound items
2016-05-05 17:14:20 [#arkadia] [Tomas T79x Hope] like that 10 you cant get from it gona killyou
2016-05-05 17:14:20 [#arkadia] [Daughter of Anarchy] Yeah, I never claimed to be a big fan of RCE

2016-05-05 17:14:21 [#arkadia] [Czesio Day666 Morderca] we all can see how shitty ma is doing lately via direct sales
2016-05-05 17:14:42 [#arkadia] [Czesio Day666 Morderca] and bound items, event NON TT'ABLE ITEMS !!!!!! WTFFFF
2016-05-05 17:14:56 [#arkadia] [Kent OZtwo OpaloMan] DoA we know and that's kind of the issue you want our game to be non RCE
2016-05-05 17:14:56 [#arkadia] [Daughter of Anarchy] I just want to play my game in single player mode and have the chance to make some profit along the road

2016-05-05 17:15:21 [#arkadia] [Daughter of Anarchy] I don't want it to be non-rce; I just don't care if it is RCE or not

So here's the chat... I never said (or thought) the game shouldn't be RCE; I just said I don't really care if it is RCE or not, and that is an affirmation I stand by. As long as a game allows me cash out (either by withdrawing directly like with MA or by selling my currency, assets and skills/avatar to another players) that is the only real cash factor I care about.

And about my conflict with that game's GM, I assure you it was not about items selling (it pretty much involved PVP activity); in that regard they have a clear policy: "Account sales Code Club AB condones account and item sales, as we believe that players have the right to capitalize on their investment in Wurm." or "Ever since the beginning of *** we have allowed and even encouraged account, coin, and item sales because we never felt comfortable with the restrictions on that in other MMO’s. Playing those games we thought such restrictions limited us in a way that only benefited the game developers. We think you as a player should be allowed to convert your endeavours since you spend so much time in these games trying to create or find value and goodies. Apart from our general sandboxiness this is still an area where we stand out a bit in the industry. As many of you are aware *** *** is actually designed around the notion that our players should create and sell the valuables in between themselves." both quotes from game owner/creator himself (no link was provided to not break forum rules, but I'm sure you can find them by a simple google search with quoted text.

Naverith · May 6, 2016

1) Show me the cancelled check/receipt for the $1,000 entrance fee.

2) Show me, as per International Law, the complete voter list, and who/what was voted for.

3) Prove the validity of the count.

4) List ALL principles involved in this (so-called) "election". In other words, ALL the people that worked behind-the-scenes organizing, managing and advising ND, as well as the principle parties involved in running the actual "election".

Until these 4 items are supplied, there has been no "election".

Unless you count ones like are had in Cuba and North Korea, with only one person running.

DoA · May 6, 2016

Rumsponge said:
So, what would their playerbase have been like had they not increased the fee? You somehow are presenting these statistics like they actually prove something.

To my understanding of the information you provided, they increased the fees and the population began an immediate and substantial decline. Then, they announced a "Loyalty Program"(?) and managed to regain about half of what they lost before the steady decline resumed. After that there was this X Conn thing, the subscriber numbers returned for a short time and then resumed their decline. One has to wonder how high their numbers would be had they not had such a dramatic (and possibly desperate) price increase?

Look at all graph:
- at start of graph, number of players was constant at about 3.5k for years;
- five months before price increase, they added a new version, big update and number of players jumped to 6.25k shortly;
- there was a natural dropping trend already (due to the excitement for new features wearing off) at the moment of the price increase, number of players being at about 5.5k;
- there came the price increase and the number dropped at about 5k (to be honest, it was not even a change in trend, but let's assume that whole drop was because of the price increase - that was a 10% players drop);
- from that point forward the player base kept moving up and down but never drop under 5k, nowhere close to the old 3.5k levels;
- at the end of graph (16 months after price increase) player base was still at the same level as before the price increase (5.5k);
- the game is still alive and healthy even today - they even moved to Steam, launched and a standalone version that had quite a lot of sales and still have a solid enough player base.

So there was absolutely no impeding doom, massive players leaking or anything like that. People didn't liked the change, they cried, they whined, they threatened to quit, maybe they even left for various periods (from one day to a couple of months), but they eventually adapt, learn to live with the change and eventually even forgot there was a time when things were 37.5% cheaper. Actually I risk betting that if it wouldn't have been market the time of the price increase, you wouldn't even have guessed when it happened.

NEVERDIE : you are not my president !

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