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I thought I had an idea about how this all works until I saw the 5700 Ped Armax Bull Mature

C

CozMoDan

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Herco Coz Mann
Congrats to the player that got it, I am so jealous :). I remember when I first started this kind of thing was fairly normal but I haven't seen much since the infamous 2010 VU. I hope this means something for all of us.
Anyway congrats again and hope this means something. Yes I do remember 330K MulMum thing.
 
Good old days......

 
HarryBondHole said:
Good old days......

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For those of us who never looted above 1k PED, they were the very shit old days :)

I'd still prefer the jackpot chance, but considering I'm a "payer" not a "payee", lets keep them rare, yeah? :girl:
 
Aio said:
For those of us who never looted above 1k PED, they were the very shit old days :)

I'd still prefer the jackpot chance, but considering I'm a "payer" not a "payee", lets keep them rare, yeah? :girl:
Click to expand...

I'm a prayer.
 
It's nice to know those outliers still exist. Definitely not as common as it used to be, but it means that there is still that rare, rare chance... Keeps people rolling the dice! :laugh:
 
Agree. I was lucky enough to get a 13K Argo guardian back in the day. I was so new didn't know about tracker and didn't even think to take a screen shot. Ah the good old days :).
 
The thing is, standard loot is no better than it was they've just took away most the uber hofs :mad:
 
slither said:
The thing is, standard loot is no better than it was they've just took away most the uber hofs :mad:
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It is not only this! Standard loot more, and more hapen to be below 60%, per run. (not in average, on long term hunt)
This most cause the feeling of been a big looser, what then cause ppl do not make deposite or play less. Who have fun to be all the time a looser? Loot in old days was much better balanced, as it is now. Dunno, if this only hapen at caly.

This event, im sure, is only here, to drop the MU at the shrooms. Same was hapen with other rare items at other mobs. Robo filter as example.

ESI is an other case, about they are affected by sell out skills, and MA don't want, that too many ppl sell out. So ESI will be stay at high MU and rare to get.
 
trance said:
It is not only this! Standard loot more, and more hapen to be below 60%, per run. (not in average, on long term hunt)
This most cause the feeling of been a big looser, what then cause ppl do not make deposite or play less. Who have fun to be all the time a looser? Loot in old days was much better balanced, as it is now. Dunno, if this only hapen at caly.

This event, im sure, is only here, to drop the MU at the shrooms. Same was hapen with other rare items at other mobs. Robo filter as example.

ESI is an other case, about they are affected by sell out skills, and MA don't want, that too many ppl sell out. So ESI will be stay at high MU and rare to get.
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I agree and I really feel if this does not change we are going to see a decline in low to medium level players. This will start the decline of the game and in a few years you may see the end. This game can not last with just high to uber level players.
 
I disagree, loot is the same as it always was, the only thing that has been changing constantly since 2008 is the ECO factor.

I still get regular HOFs, daily even, by playing the same way as I did and not concerning my self with MA's idea of "eco play". Because eco isn't what anyone thinks it is, other than a way to dilute payouts,kill skill gains and limit returns.

If you think really really hard, you will realize eco was a necessity for MA to succeed. The good old days with everyone decaying in UL gear was not paying off, as the system is designed to magnify decays on return. IMO anyhow. :)
 
forgo said:
I disagree, loot is the same as it always was, the only thing that has been changing constantly since 2008 is the ECO factor.

I still get regular HOFs, daily even, by playing the same way as I did and not concerning my self with MA's idea of "eco play". Because eco isn't what anyone thinks it is, other than a way to dilute payouts,kill skill gains and limit returns.

If you think really really hard, you will realize eco was a necessity for MA to succeed. The good old days with everyone decaying in UL gear was not paying off, as the system is designed to magnify decays on return. IMO anyhow. :)
Click to expand...

I also don't changed my game play, i do the same as i ever did, with same gear, and most also same mobs.
How can you explain to me, why i get more and more loot below 60% and some times below 40% (per run)? This never hapen at me in old times! There i got verry rarly lot below 60% (per run). I also do mining. Same hapens there, claims get more rarly and more and more it hapen that i get mining reward below 60%. (I'm lev 42 prospector).

The main problem, I get about this: It feels like been a big looser, and this destroying my game fun. I more and more play now other games, just about this issue with bad balancing of the loot. Why i should make a depo, if i know, i will loose it to fast, and don't can play same long as it was in older days.

Dunno, may this all hapen only at me? I can't speek for others!
 
trance said:
Dunno, may this all hapen only at me? I can't speek for others!
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Sounds like your going through a downswing. Got 60% last run myself, that's very low.
40% return however, that sounds little fishy. Must be a very short run, very few mobs killed?
See the problem is, this way we easily can get to 0% return as well. Kill 1 mob, it's a nolooter, run done, I got 0% returns! See what I mean?

Need more data - number of mobs killed, total ammo spent, total decay Vs. Loot back. Then we can really relate to your situation, compare our results. As long as it's just one number it's pretty much meaningless for anyone else.

Anyway, I wish you good luck! That's something we all can use. :yup:
 
slither said:
The thing is, standard loot is no better than it was they've just took away most the uber hofs :mad:
Click to expand...

Well we have seen a few great HOFs this past week. My guess here is all is the same but MA is just feeding us with all this TP Fee stuff and all.
 
trance said:
...

Dunno, may this all hapen only at me? I can't speek for others!
Click to expand...

It's not only you. There have been many threads and many conversations on game in this topic these last months.

Many from players who aren't regular "complainers" at all.

The usual "need more logs need more data you aren't understanding how it works ..." people still show up (look you got one already) but the truth is, I don't need all of that to know the difference between good times and bad times. The difference between something like 85% and 95% wouldn't matter to me.

The difference between that and 55% - 60% doesn't require millipec logs or a thousand hours of hunting to be seen. And it means that I feel like a bit of an idiot (hopeful but dumb) every time I throw a scrap of my paycheck at MA.

Even to cycle on a mob such as Kerbs when they're level appropriate you need tens of dollars in gear, hundreds of dollars in ammo ($$ not PED) and the ability to play ONLY in 4+ hour sessions.

Easily the money could be spent on 4-6 or more console/pc games, or half a year+ of a full subscription MMO providing you with hundreds if not thousands of hours of play time. For a couple hours of hunting in EU.

It's ridiculous.
 
forgo said:
I disagree, loot is the same as it always was, the only thing that has been changing constantly since 2008 is the ECO factor.

I still get regular HOFs, daily even, by playing the same way as I did and not concerning my self with MA's idea of "eco play". Because eco isn't what anyone thinks it is, other than a way to dilute payouts,kill skill gains and limit returns.

If you think really really hard, you will realize eco was a necessity for MA to succeed. The good old days with everyone decaying in UL gear was not paying off, as the system is designed to magnify decays on return. IMO anyhow. :)
Click to expand...

I wish someone would confirm or debunk this with actual data... It's driving me crazy. One of the reasons I rarely ever hunt anymore. If eco doesn't matter... what does?
 
ZPF said:
I wish someone would confirm or debunk this with actual data... It's driving me crazy. One of the reasons I rarely ever hunt anymore. If eco doesn't matter... what does?
Click to expand...
Pedflow, total turnover. Look at Smilg's log, or Fivedolla's, on a smaller scale.


IMO (and this I can't prove!), eco matters as well, and it's not really a question of "either this or that" either. Doesn't hurt to have both.
 
Assuming the maximum loot multiplyer (if it exists) is approximately around 5000x-6000x for most mobs, tiny mobs might go higher but I have no clue about them these days. This size Hof on that mob is not unrealistic or unreasonable. This being said, i do feel a little sorry he spent a multiplier of that size on that mob. Could have been a kick ass ath on something like a feffox alpha or a prot gaurd :D
 
ZPF said:
I wish someone would confirm or debunk this with actual data... It's driving me crazy. One of the reasons I rarely ever hunt anymore. If eco doesn't matter... what does?
Click to expand...

This isn't really the thread to discuss that but its my belief the loot system is a percentage payout, pay in 1,000,000 ped it poops out 900,000. Its deceptively simple. People like to call it a "personal loot pool" I don't agree, "personal" implys everyone gets a specific % number attributed to them, I don't think so. I think this loot law applys to everyone making it very general. I also don't like the term "loot pool", this implys there is Peds in an account some place waiting to be distributed. I don't think so. We were told once that loot is generated upon the looting action, this leads me to think upon a loot command, the game refers to a data bank that knows what you spent versus what you received previously over the life of your account. If ma documents your every action and the game knows the TT of every item and the cost of every shot of your weapon/too/bp, I don't see why they can't have a simple calculator running in the background.

I like to imagine the game asks for a multiplier at the same time of looting, in a similar fashion as rolling a 6000 sided dice but the dice has high numbers with a small surface on one side and small numbers with large surfaces on the other side of the ball dice. Imagine there is a weight in the dice near the surface on the side of the small numbers making the extremely likely to land.
 
But they say avatar actions are not tracked

There is no such thing as a "personal lootpool" for individual avatars, and there is no system in place which tracks each avatar's returns over time, or which provides compensation to individual avatars. As a result, long-term results in Entropia Universe are directly related to the choices made by each participant, and those who approach their chosen profession in an efficient manner will find more success than those who do not. Overall this is a very positive thing and an important part of the Entropia virtual universe concept, as it allows those participants who spend the time and effort to approach their activities within Entropia Universe in a smart way to improve their chances of becoming successful, just like in the real world

Dev notes
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Page.aspx?page=Developers_Notes
 
sure the guy who kill 10k with 10.000 ped has more chances than who kill 7000 for same price, but that s all
 
sidxx said:
This isn't really the thread to discuss that but its my belief the loot system is a percentage payout, pay in 1,000,000 ped it poops out 900,000. Its deceptively simple. People like to call it a "personal loot pool" I don't agree, "personal" implys everyone gets a specific % number attributed to them, I don't think so. I think this loot law applys to everyone making it very general. I also don't like the term "loot pool", this implys there is Peds in an account some place waiting to be distributed. I don't think so. We were told once that loot is generated upon the looting action, this leads me to think upon a loot command, the game refers to a data bank that knows what you spent versus what you received previously over the life of your account. If ma documents your every action and the game knows the TT of every item and the cost of every shot of your weapon/too/bp, I don't see why they can't have a simple calculator running in the background.
Click to expand...
In other words, once Smilg's total investments have been "paid out" his monthly profit numbers will suddenly "dry up"?

There's lot of examples with ppl who either never deposited a dime or already got their initial investments back long time ago and still keep profiting. I know personally a few high rollers (with the best possible gear in game and prof lvl's at 100+) who are doing that right now.

It's not necessarily a very complex system... but I'm afraid it's not simple in the way you are imagining it, either.


Coming back to the OP's topic, high multipliers are nice but their effect over long periods of time "gets lost" in the massive pedflow of the total turnover.
 
Fifth said:
There's lot of examples with ppl who either never deposited a dime or already got their initial investments back long time ago and still keep profiting. I know personally a few high rollers (with the best possible gear in game and prof lvl's at 100+) who are doing that right now.
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I said nothing about deposits :)

Where the ped comes from matters not as long as its spent.

I also cannot say as to how the old system was back in the day when many of the old top notch ubers started.
 
You (all) need to think logically.

y=x(0.90) (where x = cost to kill, y=returns) is a very simple formula.

y=x((0.5)<z<(1.40)) (where z is a random factor) is a slightly more complex formula, but still simple and logical.

A formula which incorporates looting location, personal spend over time, past looting events, mob history, "eco" etc etc. is a very, very, VERY complex formula.

Now multiply that formula by the data points needed for the millions of looting events every day and you'll see the answer.
 
Fifth said:
Sounds like your going through a downswing. Got 60% last run myself, that's very low.
40% return however, that sounds little fishy. Must be a very short run, very few mobs killed?
See the problem is, this way we easily can get to 0% return as well. Kill 1 mob, it's a nolooter, run done, I got 0% returns! See what I mean?

Need more data - number of mobs killed, total ammo spent, total decay Vs. Loot back. Then we can really relate to your situation, compare our results. As long as it's just one number it's pretty much meaningless for anyone else.

Anyway, I wish you good luck! That's something we all can use. :yup:
Click to expand...

Don't mean to sound like a total ass, but I am so sick of these types of responses. In my opinion AND experience this "need more data" is a crock of shit that dismisses what the player is telling you is their experience. Trance has played for years and I have as well. I don't need more data to tell me that I will loose SUPER fast. How much data is enough data? And if someone has some magic formula that will provide a 99% turnover w/o using super high valued uber gear, please tell me.... So I am the same - I don't play or deposit. It's a damn shame, but what are my options?
 
Fifth said:
Pedflow, total turnover. Look at Smilg's log, or Fivedolla's, on a smaller scale.


IMO (and this I can't prove!), eco matters as well, and it's not really a question of "either this or that" either. Doesn't hurt to have both.
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem is that they both maximize eco. I would love to see a long term hunting log of someone with horrible eco. THAT is what this forum NEEDS!!!!!!
 
sidxx said:
Assuming the maximum loot multiplyer (if it exists) is approximately around 5000x-6000x for most mobs, tiny mobs might go higher but I have no clue about them these days. This size Hof on that mob is not unrealistic or unreasonable. This being said, i do feel a little sorry he spent a multiplier of that size on that mob. Could have been a kick ass ath on something like a feffox alpha or a prot gaurd :D
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the multiplyer work that way, that it hapen like a personal counter, and if you reach the goal, it give you the multiplyer, no matter what mob you been hunting.. I more think that there are a lot more parameters for pop up a multiplyer. We don't have a personal lootpool, so, why we should have some thing like a personal multiplyer?
 
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