Loot-Theory Debunk Thread

pRNG (time seed, us) - sin modification - mob ID.

Mob ID contains the necessary information about looters, hp etc etc. Dmg stored in a table modifies the hp output which in turn modifies the current seed number (generated from the pRNG modified by the sine equations).

This is the only loot structure which can explain all outcomes.
 
Fifth, loot lag is purely down to the game loading icons into RAM. Check this out by clearing your cache then looting, it takes far longer if you haven't seen the items before. This is why special items usually load last.

No he's referring to the times when loots doesn't even try to pop, for 2, 3 or even 4+ mobs later.

In those cases, it's not a matter of loot icons, it's a matter of loot not being processed quickly for some "laggy" reason.
 
pRNG (time seed, us) - sin modification - mob ID.

Mob ID contains the necessary information about looters, hp etc etc. Dmg stored in a table modifies the hp output which in turn modifies the current seed number (generated from the pRNG modified by the sine equations).

This is the only loot structure which can explain all outcomes.

The mob ID content noting other as the mob ID :) But through this ID and the ID of the hunter, the algorythm can different each other, and get more informations, if need. The ID is like a house number, where the ID aim to the house. But the content is into the house.
 
Why would I (or any young player) sign up for that type of financial burden when I can go back to pay to play for $17/month or less?
Well, traditionally the answer would be swirlies, but with 5 and 10 PED globals I guess the answer is HoFs. ;)
 
The mob ID content noting other as the mob ID :) But through this ID and the ID of the hunter, the algorythm can different each other, and get more informations, if need. The ID is like a house number, where the ID aim to the house. But the content is into the house.

The info the mob ID must hold:

DMG received by avatar (to allow claim to loot (51/49%), to allow distribution of shared mob or team kill peds)

and therefore

Total DMG received (by all avatars inclusive).

Any other info is unknown (and likely irrelevant when talking about loot).
 
The info the mob ID must hold:

DMG received by avatar (to allow claim to loot (51/49%), to allow distribution of shared mob or team kill peds)

and therefore

Total DMG received (by all avatars inclusive).

Any other info is unknown (and likely irrelevant when talking about loot).

Again, the ID is a identifier number, like a house number is. The ID is not a content holder. but the ID is the identifier number for the object. Object = content holder.


Every object in code or in the level get automaticaly a unique ID number. But the ID is noting more as a number for identify a object.

In the picture you can see the AI object in level and the content into it (variables stored)
If the player does damage to it, the AI get info through the projectile, how much damage the projectile can cause, and what player (ID of player) did shot the projectile. Also the projectile hold an ID number, but all other is content of the object it self, and get comunicated with other objects through the Identify number (ID).

At least, not every info must be content of the object. You also can hold all this in data tables, and just send what is need from server to objects, by using even the ID as post adress.
 
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In the picture you can see the AI object in level and the content into it (variables stored)
If the player does damage to it, the AI get info through the projectile, how much damage the projectile can cause, and what player (ID of player) did shot the projectile. Also the projectile hold an ID number, but all other is content of the object it self, and get comunicated with other objects through the Identify number (ID).

At least, not every info must be content of the object. You also can hold all this in data tables, and just send what is need from server to objects, by using even the ID as post adress.

Based purely on observation, I believe the projectiles in EU are nothing more than particle systems and irrelevant to the hit calculation. I believe the hit is just calculated when you click. The click event is sent to the server which calcs the dmg (or lack thereof) based on your weapon setup/skills/etc, and returns the result to your client. The game is already raytracing from your viewpoint to determine when you hover objects, and that's the only factor it uses - are you over the mob or not. This is why you don't lose ammo when shooting at nothing, and why the game doesn't have locational damage.

The system you describe with the projectile carrying damage info might work for a single-player game (though it still would not be a very good idea), but it would be far too easy to exploit, and thus a bad choice for EU. I could simply create a trainer for my client that caused all of my projectiles to do 50000 dmg and go around dropping proterons in one shot with a tt gun.
 
Based purely on observation, I believe the projectiles in EU are nothing more than particle systems and irrelevant to the hit calculation. I believe the hit is just calculated when you click. The click event is sent to the server which calcs the dmg (or lack thereof) based on your weapon setup/skills/etc, and returns the result to your client. The game is already raytracing from your viewpoint to determine when you hover objects, and that's the only factor it uses - are you over the mob or not. This is why you don't lose ammo when shooting at nothing, and why the game doesn't have locational damage.

The system you describe with the projectile carrying damage info might work for a single-player game (though it still would not be a very good idea), but it would be far too easy to exploit, and thus a bad choice for EU. I could simply create a trainer for my client that caused all of my projectiles to do 50000 dmg and go around dropping proterons in one shot with a tt gun.

Aiee, that was just an example.. Im sure for eu it use what you described. But at least the question was about ID numbers and not projectiels. And no, it is not only a particle :) It is a projectile, what we see in game, but the damage is not caused trought the projectile. In this case the projectile only does the grafic effects(cosmetic). (fly from gun to creature, if hit mob or some thing else explode, do a particle effect and sound). The damage it self is using raycasting and algorythm in server.

There are many mechanics about weapon systems, and how it make damage.
 
Can we say there are seperate loot pools for every mob. I have noticed I am getting a lot of globals from Longtooths. Is it because they are hunted a lot and therefor cycle the ticket-array with different multipliers more faster? I think that would make more sense in adjusting and controlling the loot/returns.

It would be far more cost effective then having a server tracking data what everyone does and base returns on that.


I just thinking playing eco would make drawing your tickets cheaper.
 
Can we say there are seperate loot pools for every mob. I have noticed I am getting a lot of globals from Longtooths. Is it because they are hunted a lot and therefor cycle the ticket-array with different multipliers more faster? I think that would make more sense in adjusting and controlling the loot/returns.

It would be far more cost effective then having a server tracking data what everyone does and base returns on that.


I just thinking playing eco would make drawing your tickets cheaper.

MA has already stated there is no such thing as loot pools.

That being said, it is also undeniable that they do have a system in place to limit loot distribution and available item drops.

As for Longtooths globalling, it is just because they cost so much per kill, that even low multipliers result in 50+ PED loots.
 
MA has already stated there is no such thing as loot pools.
Quite the opposite, they have confirmed it:
[h=3]Developer Notes #1[/h]
... we would like to inform participants that the loot pools for each main profession are completely independent of one another, ...
I tend to agree with NNG. I mean, it's a MMO, one would expect some collective features in a multiplayer game.
 
Quite the opposite, they have confirmed it: I tend to agree with NNG. I mean, it's a MMO, one would expect some collective features in a multiplayer game.

MA stated that there aren't "personal loot pools."

However I can't believe there isn't some sort of balancing mechanism or personal loot factor. Maybe not a "pool" per se... but some personal decay v. payout factor maybe...
 
MA stated that there aren't "personal loot pools."

However I can't believe there isn't some sort of balancing mechanism or personal loot factor. Maybe not a "pool" per se... but some personal decay v. payout factor maybe...

I think, that deposite affect the loot, also when it is only for a short time. Always if i depo, i get a bit more luck, for a short time, as i have in average. It most hapens 1-2 days after deposite.

For my games i be at developing (only single player) there i be using a lot different methods, how to generate loot. I also did a lot tests with it.
One is clear, it can't be only random generated loot. if i did test with only random loot, the player got too high loot over time.
So there must be a lot other parameters, affecting the algorythm. Also possible, that each avatar have some thing like a biorythm. let's say the ava have 3 different sine curves, start at the day and time you created the account. if all curves are high, the chance to get big loot is also high. Now compare this biorythm with other parameters like the coordinate your ava stay, like how much you lost, how high the profession pool's are (craft,hunt,mining), and a lot other parameters. use also a random number and we get the multiplier.

How really it work, we will never know, about it is the most secret MA have.
 
Just because something keeps tracks of what you clicked or killed doesn't mean its a personal loot pool. I still till this day believe the system does track loses in terms of units ie atrox = 1 unit doesn't matter what weapon you use 1 unit is 1 unit.

However tracking what you killed and balancing out is effected by a load of other factors internal and external server side. Problem is half the time their is too many months to feed so pretty much most people lose epic. Being eco helps but its not a ticket to £$£ and it certainly isn't fun after doing it repeatedly.
 
I think, that deposite affect the loot, also when it is only for a short time. Always if i depo, i get a bit more luck, for a short time, as i have in average. It most hapens 1-2 days after deposite.

For my games i be at developing (only single player) there i be using a lot different methods, how to generate loot. I also did a lot tests with it.
One is clear, it can't be only random generated loot. if i did test with only random loot, the player got too high loot over time.
So there must be a lot other parameters, affecting the algorythm. Also possible, that each avatar have some thing like a biorythm. let's say the ava have 3 different sine curves, start at the day and time you created the account. if all curves are high, the chance to get big loot is also high. Now compare this biorythm with other parameters like the coordinate your ava stay, like how much you lost, how high the profession pool's are (craft,hunt,mining), and a lot other parameters. use also a random number and we get the multiplier.

How really it work, we will never know, about it is the most secret MA have.

definitely not based on deposits. That's absurd. I am a far more believer in the biorhythm and in fact, there was a thread about it a few years ago when i started. There were 4 curves - avatar, region, mob, and weapon.
 
I think, that deposite affect the loot, also when it is only for a short time. Always if i depo, i get a bit more luck, for a short time, as i have in average. It most hapens 1-2 days after deposite.

For my games i be at developing (only single player) there i be using a lot different methods, how to generate loot. I also did a lot tests with it.
One is clear, it can't be only random generated loot. if i did test with only random loot, the player got too high loot over time.
So there must be a lot other parameters, affecting the algorythm. Also possible, that each avatar have some thing like a biorythm. let's say the ava have 3 different sine curves, start at the day and time you created the account. if all curves are high, the chance to get big loot is also high. Now compare this biorythm with other parameters like the coordinate your ava stay, like how much you lost, how high the profession pool's are (craft,hunt,mining), and a lot other parameters. use also a random number and we get the multiplier.

How really it work, we will never know, about it is the most secret MA have.
I believe it's something like that too. Except deposit, deposits doesn't seem to affect anything besides the psychological effect on your own play style.

Also, what Rocket said.
 
definitely not based on deposits. That's absurd. I am a far more believer in the biorhythm and in fact, there was a thread about it a few years ago when i started. There were 4 curves - avatar, region, mob, and weapon.

biorhythm is definitely the best theory we have... seems to explain the large loots as well.

when avatar, mob, and region line up we see big hofs. I'm not sure if there's one for weapon or not.. but you would know with your mako testing.
 
definitely not based on deposits. That's absurd. I am a far more believer in the biorhythm and in fact, there was a thread about it a few years ago when i started. There were 4 curves - avatar, region, mob, and weapon.

I think that would be not only very difficulty to code and control (so it doesn't give out more than MA can handle), it would also be absurdly heavy on server load.

Also would make it super complicated to process team/shared loots.
 
I think that would be not only very difficulty to code and control (so it doesn't give out more than MA can handle), it would also be absurdly heavy on server load.
It might be heavy on server load if server would process full loot algorithm every single looting event. If the full algorithm only runs after certain intervals (a compensation mechanism theory) then you can afford processing slightly more complex calculations easily.
Besides, for a sine wave you only have to consider the average level of the wave. Minimums and maximums cancel each other out over time. Perfectly good way to control the loot (make sure the payouts remain inside preset bounds). To make it more interesting, you can base some of the the sine waves on the state of the shared loot pools. This way the total payout is still kept within bounds but every individual will see highly variable and unpredictable pattern, which happens to be exactly what we can experience... Again, doesn't prove this is how it works, just that it's possible to do it this way.

Also would make it super complicated to process team/shared loots.
It's hard to say anything about shared loots cuz you can't see the whole picture. My experience with the loot in teams however shows the loot can be very different for each member. Too different if the loot was divided only according to the damage dealt. It seems some personal factors are also included... but it's impossible to prove ofc.
 
It might be heavy on server load if server would process full loot algorithm every single looting event. If the full algorithm only runs after certain intervals (a compensation mechanism theory) then you can afford processing slightly more complex calculations easily.

Not the case, if you ever used explosives to hunt, killed lots of mobs simultaneously and got wildly varying loot from each (also simultaneously, if you use a loot pill), which happens all the time.
 
Not the case, if you ever used explosives to hunt, killed lots of mobs simultaneously and got wildly varying loot from each (also simultaneously, if you use a loot pill), which happens all the time.
Assuming not a full loot algorithm is run each looting event doesn't mean no loot algorithm is run. I would expect the simplified loot algorithm to be random within (comparatively strict) bounds (no big multipliers).
May work that way or not, but it's possible to do it this way and if you do it this way the effect would be... what we can see. ;)


Also, to clarify the "compensation mechanism" theory - the name seems to suggest there's fairness in the loot, which is misleading. Assuming some sine waves are based on shared loot pools, it would be fair only collectively while from the viewpoint of each individual person involved there's no fairness whatsoever. Then again, some other sine waves would be personal, thus fair over time and serve as a counterbalance to make the overall result less volatile (in the long run).
And to make the picture complete, third loot pool type involved could be global in nature, it would engage very rarely, contain highest multipliers and be free of any compensation mechanisms (which is to say: if u get this Big Hit, you can keep it - the system never takes it back "intentionally")
 
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At least, we can discuss loot theories for ages, and we never will find out how it work. This algorythm is highly prodected by MA.

We see only the number (number x we get in loot) but how the number x got generated, we will never find out.
 
Some of these theories are way over-engineered. Y'all are giving MA too much credit. They can't even make my Paneleon run forward.
 
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