Help: What to do.

tekmaster82

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Jun 12, 2008
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643
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James Jimbo Gumb
Let me start off by saying not once in the 9 years and 11 months I have been in game have I ever created a thread on the forum whining about my loot TT returns. I do quite a bit of reading and observing on the forum but I really don’t post much. I expect a loss overall due to how the system is designed and Mindark is in business to make a profit not be a charity. I know my avatar is not one of the lucky ones who will ever loot a nice item, but I enjoy the thrill of the hunt, seeing swirls, and the occasional HOF. I am willing to pay for entertainment and deposit regularly for the chance of hitting a nice payout. My problem is that recently my TT hunting returns have gone completely sour for whatever reason.

Something is drastically different with my hunting returns and my purpose of creating this thread is to ask other hunters if they have had a similar experience to mine. I would like to share my experience and outline my recent days hunting. My hope is if there is anyone else out there with the same results I am experiencing they will know they aren’t alone.

Last week I flew from Calypso to Ark to participate in the golden week event. For efficiency sake I decided to hunt the Magurg Breeder 3 category to keep defense costs around 1% of my TT hunting output. I experienced decent returns overall and looted a few of the 100% skill boost pills I was after. TT returns seemed bearable and I ended up at 80% with the limited time I participated. On the 7th of this month I grew bored of the event and decided to stop and explore Ark since I haven't really done so before that point. The next day I picked up a few missions including the Stage I Beladoth, Scoria, and Huon missions and started grinding away. I finished all of the missions without any globals and 54% TT return. At this point I haven't had a single global since the golden week hunts and my largest loot was 35 Ped during the missions. Later that day, I logged back in and spent a few more hours killing Scoria with a TT return of 63% and no globals. I skipped logging in on the 8th to take a break. On the 9th I decided to switch things up changing my weapon setup, armor, and mob choice by hunting bigger Huons. Returns this time around were basically the same as my others with no globals and 66% TT. The 10th of May I logged in and spent approximately 6 hours hunting Scoria, small Huons, mutated Beladoth, and mutated Otorugi with poor returns and no globals. It was time to leave Ark and head back home for Calypso.

On the 11th I returned to Caly and went straight to my fallback mob Ambulimax at Neas Place where I am registered for Akoz’s event. When returns are bad I can usually recoup a substantial portion of my losses here and ride out a bad loot period my avatar was going through while still being able to cycle peds. I use them as a sort of diagnostic to gauge whether or not I am still in a bad loot period since I have hunted them extensively and know well what their normal returns look like. Hunting naked with my favorite Tier 5 Shagadi Sword I cycled nonstop for almost 6 hours and received exactly 71% TT returns and no globals. I don’t know why I kept going, but it was possibly because I lost track of time while on the phone with clients. There were countless nova fragment loots, evade messages were out of control, and returns were awful so I called it quits for the day. Today I logged in and only had time for about two hours of hunting with no global and 65% return.

Maybe it is time for a break? Do I keep grinding and hope for the big one to hit? Did I miss the memo about a change in TT returns? My tracker has not had a single global since the 6th of May. My friends in game are in disbelief and thought I must have not been hunting or and logged in idle. Is anyone else getting results like I am? I have tried changing planets, armors, weapons, and mobs with no luck. I have switched between rifle, knife, long blade , pistol, and carbines. Hunting with and without enhancers, armor, pills, fapper and weapon amps. The fappers I have hired can vouch for me that my loot has been awful and they witnessed no globals I can assure you. Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
Hmm

I am with you, although my hunts have been much shorter and maybe I just need to cycle more. I'm only pulling 70% TT with an Ozpyn Chon, A101, and hunting naked with an Adj Resto Chip on Young Tiaraks. Not sure what the deal is. I switched to these really low creatures with nice MU hides and nails (116% and 125% respectively) in hopes that hunting them naked and with such a low cost to heal with the Adj Resto Chip I would finally see profit. Not TT profit but atleast a small (<10 PEDs) profit when counting MU. Not even close. 72% TT with MU included. I don't know where I am going wrong because I mean damn, it really doesn't get much more eco than this.

P.S. Evade level 13 and mob lvl 8 so hoping that is enough evade before someone says I just need more of that.
 
how much are you doing on each mob?
 
hows your DPP on your weapons? Are you staying above 2.90? Maybe that is a factor? I always do above 2.90 and get 90%+ returns for the most part.

ive kept a bunch of logs for migration, and events
 
Cycled over 5k on Ambulimax alone.

so.. you are telling me you cycled 5k in 2 hours with a shagadi and got 65% return? no...

Let me rephrase my question.. how much are you doing on each mob in each session? 500ped?
 
I feel you. Lost about 10k in the two last months while grinding. Only profit when I do 20-40min hunts while the waves are higher then usual. Gambling with big amps are great fun when you hit the big waves aswell. My advice is to stop grinding, you'll loose no matter what.. the casino allways win.

Learn the trading profession. Only way to profit with least risk.

Good luck out there:)
 
so.. you are telling me you cycled 5k in 2 hours with a shagadi and got 65% return? no...

Let me rephrase my question.. how much are you doing on each mob in each session? 500ped?

No, I cycled 5k over the course of 6hrs.
 
i stay on a mob for 2 hour (2 loot pill) and my average return is usually pretty stable on this short term.

but this week i can do 3 run (6h) with reeeeealy bad return.

for 3 days i was lucky enough to get back the loss in the next 2 run.
changing mob
even changing planet

sadly last 2 days is only bad run, bad run, bad run, bad run.
i guess my return changed to long term now.


so i agree with you on 1 point, maybe time for a break...
or grind more
 
hows your DPP on your weapons? Are you staying above 2.90? Maybe that is a factor? I always do above 2.90 and get 90%+ returns for the most part.

ive kept a bunch of logs for migration, and events

I'm staying above 2.95 DPP. Only using maxed SIB equipment.
 
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I'm sitting at 84% TT return on my last ~18k cycled in mining. Not the worst thing ever, and I'm slowly noticing an upswing on my averages (last 4k cycled was 89%). On the other hand I'm currently at 50% return from indoor mining and from hunting (albeit with much less cycled). So on some level I feel your pain.

You seem to be in a pretty brutal downswing but I don't think you should give up just yet. What was your total cycled so far since after Golden Week? 10-12kish? I've heard some say ~5k mobs killed is when you should expect to be edging close to stable returns. Hunting high health mobs seems to require a massive bankroll which is why I've avoided it.

Socmate of mine was having some horrible returns recently, then proceeded to loot two 2 shopkeeper pads in the span of an hour... so you never know :/

My advice is to keep very detailed logs... it helps a lot with peace of mind imo.

maybe I just need to cycle more. .

It's probably this.
 
Usually when this happens to me it means I have a makeup HOF coming, eventually. Sometimes when I am in a rut I make a big change in what I am doing, use a different type of weapon, hunt a mob I haven't hunted in a long time, etc.
 
On the 11th I returned to Caly and went straight to my fallback mob Ambulimax at Neas Place where I am registered for Akoz’s event. When returns are bad I can usually recoup a substantial portion of my losses here and ride out a bad loot period my avatar was going through while still being able to cycle peds. I use them as a sort of diagnostic to gauge whether or not I am still in a bad loot period since I have hunted them extensively and know well what their normal returns look like. Hunting naked with my favorite Tier 5 Shagadi Sword I cycled nonstop for almost 6 hours and received exactly 71% TT returns and no globals.

Shagadi+Melee VI (~58.8 dps)?
 
Shagadi+Melee VI (~58.8 dps)?

I did mention that it was tier 5 right? 79.4 dps plus 9% reload bonus from gear comes out to roughly 86.5 not counting any pills I might have consumed along the way.
 
Huon and Scoria. Welcome to casino.
 
Huon and Scoria. Welcome to casino.

I wouldn't blame it on mob choices. I have a 70k ped huon log @100.4% tt. (If I remove hofs from that, as some like to do it's still around 95%)

Im doing huon only though. Perhaps you've just had bad luck switching into bad swings for the different mobs?
 
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I wouldn't blame it on mob choices. I have a 70k ped huon log @100.4% tt. (If I remove hofs from that, as some like to do it's still around 95%)

Im doing huon only though. Perhaps you've just had bad luck switching into bad swings for the different mobs?

70k vs his ~10k most likely. Let's not downplay the amount you need to cycle on mobs this size.
 
I am talking here only about TT return (no MU included in my maths)

When you deposit 100 peds IG, then MA immediatly pay around 20% of tax (European legislation). So it is left 80 peds in reality. Even if MA put 100 peds in your pedcards, as they paid 20 peds as tax they need to get back these 20% + their margin.

Because of that the total average return for the whole players community can't be more than 80%. As MA needs also some margin, total average TT return should be less than 80%.

I know each time i explain that people who pretend to have +90% average return shout against me. You can stay blind, you say whatever you want but this rule is for sure (20% tax was confirmed by support to many people).

About people who say they have +90% return i see only 4 solutions :
- They have an incredible good damage/pec so they receive more than the average (i have a nice dmage/pec myself and i never had +90% TT average return)
- They do wrong maths or forget to include fap/armor/gun/amp/enhancers/... decay
- They include MU and hunt creature who provides nice MU loots
- They lie

Like usual i will receive tons of negative reputation for saying something that is for sure completly true. The people who give me negative reputation for sure are the parts of people who lie about their +90%.

P.S. value is not exactly 20%, they pay VAT of your country as tax. If in your country VAT is 19% then MA have to pay it. Send a support to MA they will confirm this to you.

P.S.2 This concern all european citizen, no clue how it works with other countries
 
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When you deposit 100 peds IG, then MA immediatly pay around 20% of tax (European legislation). So it is left 80 peds in reality. Even if MA put 100 peds in your pedcards, as they paid 20 peds as tax they need to get back these 20% + their margin.

So if we all deposit and withdraw again again and again MA will go bankrupt soon?
deposits that can just be withdrawed again are not an income - any taxlaw in the world which tax it would make it impossible for a business like MA to survive
 
Because of that the total average return for the whole players community can't be more than 80%. As MA needs also some margin, total average TT return should be less than 80%.

This is based on the assumption that people deposit, cycle once and then withdraw. If all of what you're saying is true then this would mean a net loss for MA. But it would also mean a net loss for the majority of players. The likeliness of this happening is next to none. As long as you have a chance to win gamblers will play

Depo 100 ped. Cycle once 90% return 90 ped left.
Cycle second time 90% return 81ped left.
Cycle third time 90% return 72.9 ped left. 7.1 ped margin for ma
 
I was doing almost the same in same period at similar level. 65 dps melee (songkra+VI +14% reload from Ares(L) and candy canes; I never use enhancers though, and reload pills are only for event mobs, combined with skill pills), defense costs < 1% (adj resto + mod2350, naked). Golden week cat.3 - did 2 x 2k magurg breeders for evade, collecting 18 pills along the way. Also Beladoth and Kiana between the golden runs. What I did different is the order. I switched a lot between them, killing 15-20 and going to one of the others if I didn't like the average loot I was getting. When I left Ark on the 7th and went to Monria for their event, I was at 96% return for the week on Ark.

Monrian big Yog were an absolute blast, ended up well in green. Then went to Caly and spent 5+ hours on marcimex in a row, loot was good so didn't switch to anything and mostly broke even. Next day things went sour, tried many different mobs over the next 2 days, loot sucked everywhere, so I went low level and sticked with <L15 mobs for the irons to wait out the bad period.
 
When you deposit 100 peds IG, then MA immediatly pay around 20% of tax (European legislation). So it is left 80 peds in reality. Even if MA put 100 peds in your pedcards, as they paid 20 peds as tax they need to get back these 20% + their margin.

While technically true, they'll claim any tax back that they paid against their profit/losses.

Tax isn't paid per purchase, it's paid once a year - they sum the deposits and work out what tax they should pay on those, and then offset that tax against operating losses... check MA's financial reports, they pay little tax.

90% return is totally possible... 95+ I doubt...
 
So if we all deposit and withdraw again again and again MA will go bankrupt soon?
deposits that can just be withdrawed again are not an income - any taxlaw in the world which tax it would make it impossible for a business like MA to survive


European law is very clear, PED is not considered as virtual money (no licence from any european central bank), so selling peds is considered as selling any other service or good. So the company who sell has to pay the VAT of the country of the client using a specific european central service. http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm

Send a simple support to MA, ask who pay the VAT for the money i deposit if i am a european citizen (as i said i do not know how it works for other country). Support will answer you : as soon as you deposit we pay the VAT of your country ourselves.

And yes, if we all deposit, withdraw, deposit, withdraw, then MA go banckrupty !
 
While technically true, they'll claim any tax back that they paid against their profit/losses.

Tax isn't paid per purchase, it's paid once a year - they sum the deposits and work out what tax they should pay on those, and then offset that tax against operating losses... check MA's financial reports, they pay little tax.

90% return is totally possible... 95+ I doubt...

VAT is paid quaterly. As we are customers withou European VAT number nobody refund MA for that. Just check Europe official websites, all is explained.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm
 
This is based on the assumption that people deposit, cycle once and then withdraw. If all of what you're saying is true then this would mean a net loss for MA. But it would also mean a net loss for the majority of players. The likeliness of this happening is next to none. As long as you have a chance to win gamblers will play

Depo 100 ped. Cycle once 90% return 90 ped left.
Cycle second time 90% return 81ped left.
Cycle third time 90% return 72.9 ped left. 7.1 ped margin for ma


YOU ARE COMPLETLY TRUE ! This is one of the solution that i did not describe. And may be MA decided to take the risks because they consider that if people deposit they will not do only one hunting run.

Me i made my calculation considering someone who will deposit 1 M€, so MA is forced immediatly to pay to Europe inter-country 20% VAT, so 200 000 €. The guy buy 1 M€ ammo (- what he need for repair) and hunt during many years and decide when he has spent all ammo to calculate his whole return average. In this case the whole return can't be more than 80% if MA does not want to loose money.
 
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i had the same... right after the event ended.. 2k ped ammo to various mobs with 1 global.. did some condition crafting on components... 2k click on simple 1 springs with 11ped the top loot.. 1k click simple 2 springs with 20ped best loot...
 
Me i made my calculation considering someone who will deposit 1 M€, so MA is forced immediatly to pay to Europe inter-country 20% VAT, so 200 000 €. The guy buy 1 M€ ammo (- what he need for repair) and hunt during many years and decide when he has spent all ammo to calculate his whole return average. In this case the whole return can't be more than 80% if MA does not want to loose money.

This could also potentially be true if your facts are correct (too lazy to look it up myself so im just gonna assume it's true) and if he's the only player playing. If other people lose 200k+ € on their total cycles this one guy could just as well break even.
 
VAT is paid quaterly. As we are customers withou European VAT number nobody refund MA for that. Just check Europe official websites, all is explained.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm

From that link:

You may still deduct the VAT you yourself have paid on your related expenses (goods/services bought in specifically to supply that service).

I.E. the expenses related to selling PED, which means MA can realistically deduct 100% of the tax if required (i.e. in the case of operating loss).
 
I wouldn't blame it on mob choices. I have a 70k ped huon log @100.4% tt.
Casino has better average return than EU. No problem there.
If u want to argue Huon and, say, Teladon have similar loot volatility u really don't know what u talking about.

OK, let's rephrase it
70k vs his ~10k most likely. Let's not downplay the amount you need to cycle on mobs this size.
Which is to say, the bigger the HP of the mob the less kills u get for the same amount cycled. The smaller the number of mobs killed the more violent the loot swings will grow. It's not even about EU, it's just maths.
Additional, EU-specific factor - not all mobs within the same HP class have the same loot volatility.

The above doesn't mean hunting gazillion tiny mobs with very stable loot is a 100% guarantee to get better results. It only means you have eliminated 2 additional risk factors.
In a sense this whole game is all about managing the risks. How much risk I'm willing to take? How much risk can I afford to take? etc...


I came pretty close to unraveling an useful hunting strategy, but I was careful not to spell it out. If u can figure it out, good for u; if not, don't ask. :)
 
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