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Question: melee and ranged price

mosha

mosha

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Hello,

i'm sorry for :
-my bad english
-my noobish question
-if this subject have already been discuss several time

but i'd really like to understund before invest more time and especially more money.

my "problem" :


meleevsranged.jpg

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/6/2/2/5/6/meleevsranged.jpg

2 items, pretty same cost/use
same dpp
same dps

but ! but but
5000% price difference

so is it worth invest in this rifle and keep "1 weapon" and "1 skill"
or get the melee cheap one and get a pre-damager rifle (L), and maybe more turnover bank

am i missing something ?

thanks
 
till thread display got resolved i bump it
thx Serica
 
Other considerations to consider is the Calytrek uses a dante amp , whereas the dagger uses a less costly melee VI amp.

Another determining factor is supply and demand.
 
The extra range can really help reduce defensive costs, as well as most people do not have the skills to use weapons like the corrosive dagger.

Usually melee users still have some sort of rifle to shoot mobs until they get into close range.
 
Hijacker27 said:
The extra range can really help reduce defensive costs, as well as most people do not have the skills to use weapons like the corrosive dagger.

Usually melee users still have some sort of rifle to shoot mobs until they get into close range.
Click to expand...

it is in my plan to get L rifle as i said, about defense cost it seems 80% of mobs get in melee range pretty fast.
except prot and few other

but still is it worth inverst 30k+
 
If you're on a budget, Melee is the way to go. Cheap melee options like this are only a couple of years old and require decent skill levels, so it's out of reach for many players. That's one reason why there's an oversupply of amps and weapons, and that results in the low prices you see. Melee isn't always good for large group events, but for those you can just pick up an L gun to use.
 
If you are using an UNLIMITED weapon, melee is great for for the price. There is the drawback of slightly more armor decay, and the need to use a tagging weapon, but if you ever want to sell your skills this would more than make up for the defense costs.

The big problem with melee is when you want to use something other than your 'main' weapon. It is easy to find fair quality / eco ranged (L) weapons all the way up the skill ladder. When you use (L) melee you have to pay MU - which can get really expensive since there is no ammo - or plan ahead to keep a stockpile of melee (L) that you buy for TT since some people throw low MU melee away. So if you want to be dedicated melee, plan on owning a range of weapons, with amps, which may still be cheaper than one very nice UL gun.

There may also be an issue when trying to team hunt.
 
ok

i really thought there was more pro arguments for a 3000 dollars weapon vs a 100 one (amp included).

i heard all advices, thanks.

well i guess i wil go melee UL Ark dagger all the way
with some L rifle, not only for tag but for pre-damage (25% mob's life for 80% mobs)
and yes for team - events - waves etc

then i keep 2900 dollars for turnover bankroll

thanks guyz
 
mosha said:
ok

i really thought there was more pro arguments for a 3000 dollars weapon vs a 100 one (amp included).

i heard all advices, thanks.

well i guess i wil go melee UL Ark dagger all the way
with some L rifle, not only for tag but for pre-damage (25% mob's life for 80% mobs)
and yes for team - events - waves etc

then i keep 2900 dollars for turnover bankroll

thanks guyz
Click to expand...

The main argument I would say is if you're trying to skill up for higher level ranged weapons vs higher level melee weapons. Once you're a really high level there are far more options for ranged hunters than melee....
 
ZPF said:
The main argument I would say is if you're trying to skill up for higher level ranged weapons vs higher level melee weapons. Once you're a really high level there are far more options for ranged hunters than melee....
Click to expand...

yes, heard this, you are maybe right.

but EU is dynamic right ?
things changing, and pretty fast it seems.
etheral armor, new UL SIB weap, rings, mod ek 2600, adj/mod resto chip, divine chip etc etc
the time past till i'll be high level i even don't know if Mind ark will still be :ahh:

you are maybe right
or not

anyway thanks for advice


edit :

yes i'd really like to get the same set up as my boy friend when he was playing EU in the "good old days"; camo jungle et Doa, i loved so much play his avatar and RATATATA :handgun:

but he sold out...
and later we sold out our couple
things change

and if i really want to be honest with myself it's not the set up that i dream for, even not the skilled avatar, it's just "the good old days"
the good old loot
loot items
loot items
loot items
the chance for everyone to hit a big one even on small mobs

yes i would pay to get back

when i came back last year and create my own avatar, have found a really new EU
things changes
so no more ratatata, its "swisssh" now :D
 
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Diference is very big between those.
With ranged weapon you can hunt as long as your amp last.
It was always problem in EU with MA, PP habit to create melee weapons with low TT.
 
Dan59 said:
Diference is very big between those.
With ranged weapon you can hunt as long as your amp last.
It was always problem in EU with MA, PP habit to create melee weapons with low TT.
Click to expand...

We have portable repair terminals now so it's not as big a deal I would think

I never used one though so maybe they have high decay or something?
 
ZPF said:
We have portable repair terminals now so it's not as big a deal I would think

I never used one though so maybe they have high decay or something?
Click to expand...

Songkra is 150 ped TT and don't use ammo but decay.
150 peds with opalo can last vera long but Songkra is not for hunting punyes.
So how long will last hunting round with same damage ranged weapon with 150 peds?
I doubt that ranged weapon users plan their hunts for so short period.
Yes there are portable devices to decay and you have possibility to repair after each swing same as you have possibility to buy more ammo after each shoot.
Songkra once tiered decay a lot faster, ranged gun use more ammo and additionally decay for insignificant amount.
 
The difference is in the people.

Melee amps don't exist that long. And the songkra only has 145 ped useable tt.
So it needs repairs. With a melee amp VI you can use 210 ped tt.
But.. nowadays we also have portable repair terminals and portable tt's.
People who invested in ranged weaponry and payed the high prices ,did so because put simply.. there weren't that many options to choose from.

So the price difference is in the people thinking they can still get 15-25K for their similar dps/similar eco ranged guns, compared to melee options. They payed those prices themselves.. So they want their investment back when they sell.
Price is going down because of more ranged options entering the market and price is going down because of the influx of all these melee options. People are not stupid.
But there's always the one that still pays those prices. So you might see one or two of the ranged weapons still getting sold. They are still fine weapons.
But with current uncertainty about teleporter fees and chipping out.. A lot of Members in my society at least are converting to melee options such as Aakas, Songkra, Immolation and Shagadi.
 
Spawn said:
The difference is in the people.

Melee amps don't exist that long. And the songkra only has 145 ped useable tt.
So it needs repairs. With a melee amp VI you can use 210 ped tt.
But.. nowadays we also have portable repair terminals and portable tt's.
People who invested in ranged weaponry and payed the high prices ,did so because put simply.. there weren't that many options to choose from.

So the price difference is in the people thinking they can still get 15-25K for their similar dps/similar eco ranged guns, compared to melee options. They payed those prices themselves.. So they want their investment back when they sell.
Price is going down because of more ranged options entering the market and price is going down because of the influx of all these melee options. People are not stupid.
But there's always the one that still pays those prices. So you might see one or two of the ranged weapons still getting sold. They are still fine weapons.
But with current uncertainty about teleporter fees and chipping out.. A lot of Members in my society at least are converting to melee options such as Aakas, Songkra, Immolation and Shagadi.
Click to expand...

Very good points!
 
I use the songkra, but if I had budget for similar ranged, I would certainly use ranged instead. On the other hand, if I would have started today, I'd go all melee and wouldn't have 80 lvl of useless (for me; never used guns 40+ lvl) laser as I do now.
 
Spawn said:
The difference is in the people.
Click to expand...

Agree, and that is reason that my post can be understood wrong.
I'm not reseller.
I buy weapon to use it and not to resell it.
So my post is mostly about usability and as i used melee a lot in past I posted from my angle of view.
For example there was an event in past with mulmun or mulak elite don't remember name, where my castorian survival enblade 10 tier 4 lasted just for one mob only.
So what happen if I tier it to tier 10?
Those 82 peds of blade TT will not last enough to kill that mob?
Should i repair that blade when stil in fight and mob hit me for 100+?
Don't pick me because i used blade with bad eco (it have great dps) because i have sogkra too - tier 5 with imp amp and use it regularly.
And i know very well that those 150 peds TT do not last long.

My wish is that MA do mission-quest similar to amp quest (where you improve amp 105, 204 and add also TT to amp) for melee weapons.
Maybe we could fuse two songkra blades and some residue or other resources to make it bigger TT.
 
ZPF said:
We have portable repair terminals now so it's not as big a deal I would think

I never used one though so maybe they have high decay or something?
Click to expand...
Neah, decay is insignificant, not really an argument. More weighty argument is that with high TT melee there's definitely less hassle. No need to be constantly on alert (melee has no "shots left indicator"), always ready to switch to the backup weapon or rep terminal.
Then again, we're always ready to switch to fap after crits and don't consider this "too much hassle", althou crits happen more often than blade repairs.

Dan, your blade does the same amount of damage per repair at T1 and at T10.
Only difference is how fast you can deliver that damage. With high regen mob like mulmun you have more TT left on the blade after killing the mob if you use T10 blade.
If you have amp on the blade then, yeah, you will have less amp decay (cuz total number of hits on the blade will decrease) and less damage done by the amp. Which will offset the positive effect of less regen (less total HP).
It would end up with less low regen mobs killed for sure. With mulmun, idk, I'd predict it ends up about the same.

Anyway, I'm sure TT-upgrade missions would be very popular.
 
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I use the Songkra as I wanted a UL weapon I can always fall back out, but don't rule out using (L) guns

the Calytek at 30k ped compared to lets say Calytek Spirit III (L) (similar DPS, 109%~ MU but little lower eco)
if you purchased The (L) gun when you needed it, you would be able to buy 2,469 Spirit III at 109% (12.15ped per fullTT) before you have equalled the 30k needed to get the calytek this is enough to cycle over 6million ped. your skills would raise allowing you to move up the guns as you go and (L) guns do get cheaper, but rarer as you get higher lvl.

of course the calytek UL can be resold, but don't take it as a given its still worth 30k when you sell, new items are been added all the time
 
Fifth said:
Have some coffee, helps to wake up ;)
Click to expand...

After I drank a cup of coffee problem with TT of melee weapon still exist.
Eco of tiered blade decrease a lot too.
In previous example i forgot to tell that i was agroed with two more mobs of same type.
No way to use repairing tool but fap and switch to pistol.

*well third mob got me anyway -slow fap, time lost on decayed blade surprise etc
 
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CalyTrek CR Spirit Mk II TEN Ediion using all 10 slots dmg enhancers and no other attachments have 5.296 uses.
That mean you can kill for example 135.25 kamaldon joungs or 76.9 stalkers before gun need repair.

Songkra Corosive Dager also no amp, tier 10 dmg enhancers have 538 uses.
You can kill 20.35 kamaldon young or just only 7.5 kamaldon stalkers.
That mean you will go to repair and come back many times to see how your friend with gun have still fun on his hunting round on same mobs.

We need possibility (mission?) to increase TT of melee weapons


*no min tt calculated and no regen
 
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Fifth said:
Dan, your blade does the same amount of damage per repair at T1 and at T10.
Only difference is how fast you can deliver that damage. With high regen mob like mulmun you have more TT left on the blade after killing the mob if you use T10 blade.
Click to expand...

This is untrue when using an amp (and everyone will be using an amp; no-one is enhancing before using a very cheap and eco amp).

The proportion of damage ratio moves towards the knife rather than the amp; therefore, at higher enhancement levels you use proportionally more of the knife TT than the amp, shortening the relative lifetime of the knife (at a higher rate than the +% decay).

The two reasons why melee is cheaper is range and TT. An extra 1 or 2 hits per mob on your armour due to lack of range (even over a pistol) is significant in the long run... and 150ped TT is not a feasible hunt amount (usable 145.5ped).
 
Aio said:
This is untrue when using an amp (and everyone will be using an amp; no-one is enhancing before using a very cheap and eco amp).

The proportion of damage ratio moves towards the knife rather than the amp; therefore, at higher enhancement levels you use proportionally more of the knife TT than the amp, shortening the relative lifetime of the knife (at a higher rate than the +% decay).
Click to expand...
Max amp = 1/2 weapon's max damage.
@T0 total damage = 2 parts weapon + 1 part amp = 1/3 (57.00 × 100.00% + 28.00)
@T10 total dmage = 4 parts weapon + 1 part amp = 1/5 (57.00 × 200.00% + 28.00)

Castorian Survival EnBlade-10: usable TT ~80 ped
Let's add 40 ped at T0, will be 120 ped for weap+amp.
At T10 weapon will decay twice as fast, meaning half the number of hits until decayed.
Let's add 20 ped at T10, will be 100 ped for weap+amp.

100 and 120 is 20% difference

Now, let's try to figure out how much difference will make mob regen?
Regretfully we don't know how much regen Mulmun Looter Elites have. Interpolating from available data lets say it lands somewhere around 16.0

Using unamped Castorian Castorian Survival EnBlade-10 @T0 gives us about +40% additional HP from regen:
castsenb10-t0.jpg


Using unamped Castorian Castorian Survival EnBlade-10 @T10 we get about +16% additional HP from regen:
castsenb10-t10.jpg


140% and 116% is more than 20% difference, but that's for unamped weapon.

Unfortunately eldslott.org/entropia doesn't support melee amps.
I'm too lazy to try to calculate what would be the numbers for amp+weapon combo but it's obvious amp will decrease that number significantly. Prolly final diff. would be less than 20%, so you are most likely right.

Anyway, was a pretty close call and I suspect u didn't realize it was. ;)
 
It was one of the reasons why I didn't like using the arkadia melee weapons and have owned all Genesis series swords but rainbow. The extra TT is helpful.

If you are doing smaller mobs <6 ped, the arkadia swords are fine. If you get above that. It'll be a small nuisance but at least there is a portable repair unit now.
 
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