Way Forward?

With the last VU we got another graphics update, which brought us visual improvements majority of players most likely can't see (simply because they play on low settings and can't care less about em anyway) and even for those who could see the difference was neglible. What everyone could experience was more bugs and messed up icons. If the intent was to piss off as many ppl as possible the VU definitely achieved it's purpose.

VU before that brought us a new design for a mission tracker that most players consider worse than the old one. Again, nothing the playerbase has asked for was adressed and instead something that was working fine got messed up. If the intent was to demonstrate the decisionmakers in MA office have been replaced with orangutans from the nearest zoo, it achieved it's purpose!

We can go even further back and talk about changes in economy (introduction of explo bp's and killing off MU accross the board)...
The interesting question is, can anyone remember VU that brought us something the playerbase really has been asking for?

I'm not sure if anyone in MA office will read this or even cares, but well, doesn't hurt to try.
I know, forum readers is by no means representative for the whole playerbase but at least have a decency to not keep ignoring everything we're asking for, VU after VU. It's getting old and it's really not funny any more.
______________________



Fix the bugs: Autoaim exploit in PvP, broken mob hitboxes, etc. We have whole threads on them, and Support Center can surely provide some useful info in that area as well.

Fix the economy: I'm assuming steamrolling over MU was done intentionally. Wrong decision. Hunting for MU was the core of the game for many many ppl. You can't just take it away, provide absolutely nothing in return and pretend nothing happened. Fix this mess, bring MU back. We don't care how, just do it.

Provide more content: Not more new mobs, missions or weapons, more entertainment.
First of all, fix the classical PvP. Every game needs it's endgame, can't just break it and leave it lying around, again pretending it's no big deal.
But not all players can participate in the endgame. Most don't have skills or gear, many don't like PvP in principle and EU'x PvP isn't really PvP like in other games anyway. Those other ppl need entertainment too, something besides endless grind.
Why not build some fun capture the flag type maps (instanced or open world) for teams. Several skill/HP classes, team vs. team, a basic matchmaking mechanism, map filled with PvE content, could include PvP element, or not. Or instead it can be some fun alternative, like dropping decoy-like items on the ground that work like land mines, etc etc.
Possibilities are endless, gains for the game enormous. Good chance it turns i to e-sports, will be streamed and turns into a free advertisement engine for the game. Without destroying it first. Speaking of which...

Tax the TP's and create trillion paid jobs. No, not really. Just checking if u're still awake.

I'm for the first three, but "It's the economy, stupid."

Fifth said:

Why not build some fun capture the flag type maps (instanced or open world) for teams. Several skill/HP classes, team vs. team, a basic matchmaking mechanism, map filled with PvE content, could include PvP element, or not. Or instead it can be some fun alternative, like dropping decoy-like items on the ground that work like land mines, etc etc.

Click to expand...

See I'd go the other way and provide absolutely nothing even removing some of the stuff we've got - get the old PE back where the players set their own goals, get dumped in at the deep and it's sink or swim. The joy of PE was that it was a sandbox in which we could go anywhere when we liked in the knowledge there was nothing to tell us what we should be doing. Where getting all the TP's gave a sense of achievement and took real effort not a chore that takes a couple of hours in a vehicle.

Trying to compete against games that are built from day one to do those types of play is not something EU could ever win against so why not go in the complete opposite direction.

Whats wrong with good ideas?

I like the way you're thinking. The innovation is so lacking they can't even make planets anymore instead just facebook games that caters to people with no credit cards. The turnaround in MA must be phenomenal - wonder if theres an original there even.

SpikeBlack said:

See I'd go the other way and provide absolutely nothing even removing some of the stuff we've got - get the old PE back where the players set their own goals, get dumped in at the deep and it's sink or swim. The joy of PE was that it was a sandbox in which we could go anywhere when we liked in the knowledge there was nothing to tell us what we should be doing.

Click to expand...

Sure, yeah, I totally see your point. It kinda seems logical to keep it clean and stick to the original theme. Thing is, I've seen open world games that had both. Parts of the world that have those funny different rules, inside big open world game and curiously enough, they both work together just fine. Actually, if u do it right there's a synergy. If u never seen how it's done u prolly can't really imagine it. So MA most likely never gets there, for the same reason... :/

Aloisius said:

I like the way you're thinking. The innovation is so lacking they can't even make planets anymore instead just facebook games that caters to people with no credit cards. The turnaround in MA must be phenomenal - wonder if theres an original there even.

Click to expand...

To be fair they never did make any planets

I would vote for option 3, but really pvp? Something that 10 people enjoy?
Surely something to piss off the player base even further

I only voted for bugs and economy.

If they fixed those, new content will be welcome.

As for the last option.... meh ....

all of them. yes even the one with the tp fee.

cause, in the end... why not! it will create more gameplay diversity with new professions. I for one don't see this game as a gambling vehicle. I want to have fun and raise my skill levels primarily, and if I ever can beat the spread, it should be because of skill and endurance, not gambling luck. new professions = instant fun and more trading options.

but priority should be to fix the bugs, if only to show players they still care about EU.

I voted for all the worthy ideas above (so everything but number 4)

Harmony. said:

I would vote for option 3, but really pvp? Something that 10 people enjoy?
Surely something to piss off the player base even further

Click to expand...

I think u misread it. It's not like, Lets develop PvP and see what happens. And then Oh nobody likes it, looks like we went wrong.

No, that's not what I meant.

To explain the idea, have to start from the opposite end. What could possibly create fun content, entertainment at it's best? Everything's on the table, all the possible options in a video game.

If u look at it this way, there's not really much you can do. In the big picture, it's either PvE (Player(s) versus Environment) or PvP (Player(s) versus other Player(s)). In this broad sense whole EU is PvP by it's very nature.
How so, you ask?
Well, it's a game based primarily on economy, right? The game economy is a zero-sum game. It means, for every ped you can possibly win somebody else has to lose a ped. This is a player-vs-player environment by a definition.

What I'm saying here is, PvE can only do so much. You can design a NPC, equip it with smart scripts to imitate Intelligence (AI) and let the player fight it. That's it. It's a very inefficient way to spend your development resources, cuz it requires lot of work to create content, even the best AI will still be stupid as a crockroach (not even comparable with human brain), it will start repeating itself very soon and becomes boring. This is the life cycle of your investment. Lot of resources wasted with comparatively small gains.*)

Whenever we see a really successful project, it's based on PvP (in the broad sense). Humans are the true source of variety. they are the secret ingredient that brings life and variety to your comparatively simple playground that can last for decades (as we can see in our own game, for example). The same goes for every successful big game out there. The jey to true success is always PvP (in the broad sense), not PvE.


_____________________
*) The procedural engines (as in NMS) might become the 1st real exception from this general rule. We'll see how it goes.

I say bugs, and continuing on content they already started.

Content is actually pretty vast if you go around diff planets ect.

So many instance types now its confusing, so many wave mobs.

I will give MA props, they are awesome at ideas, and starting them. But they suffer from da Vinci syndrome. That man (Leonardo da Vinci) never finished anything in his life either. They called it mania and melancholy back then, now they call it bi-polar.

It would be interesting to see a psyche report for MA as if it were a person....They would be highly medicated in any case.

But ultimately I would have to say that a new team to manage the game would be the ideal option if we had one. Enough time has gone by that my faith in MA relating to continual maintenance of Entropia is completely gone.

The game itself is great, the core is solid imo, But a truly dedicated team would make this a night and day difference, and we would all thrive as a result.

So yeah bugs , and getting things like Space, Plot deeds,Estate changes, Customer service, Communication some much needed and falsely promised, attention.

Hmmm I would say economy first and foremost. IMO the weakness in the current economy stems from lack of confidence in MA which makes people less inclined to cycle peds into the market. People are less keen to invest large amounts of money into things like LAs because there is such a large amount of uncertainly in the future of EU and the repayment time is so long.


The way forward (imo) would be to rename this forum "Entropia Forum" and to create one unified forum for all the participants of the various planets/moons to use... This would give MA and the planet partners a centralised platform to engage in community discussions and begin to rebuild trust/confidence.

I feel that one of the main reasons MA doesn't post so much (apart from the whiners of course) is that, post where? If MA engaged in a debate on one forum then they are automatically shunning another so instead they don't post at all. At the end of the day we are all in it together, participants, planet partners, MA so imo it makes sense we should all be communicating under one roof. I think discussions regarding one planet are probably very valuable information for other planets as well. A lot of the discussions we have are not really planet specific anyway.

Just my 2 pecs

(also we need roadmaps, 3,5 10 years, from MA and from each of the planet partners)

Xen said:

I'm for the first three, but "It's the economy, stupid."

Click to expand...

Good one!
Let's make it our new slogan:

So wait, lemme get this straight?

You're complaining because you have a crappy computer?

Your failure to budget properly and get a decent rig is not anyone's problem but yours. Got that? They're not exactly expensive. My little media center box runs EU on very high, and was only $495.

Yeah, I agree bugs should be fixed, but if the engine itself is viewed as flawed, nobody is going to stay long enough to find out what the bugs are.

Magyar_Republic said:

So wait, lemme get this straight?

You're complaining because you have a crappy computer?

Your failure to budget properly and get a decent rig is not anyone's problem but yours. Got that? They're not exactly expensive. My little media center box runs EU on very high, and was only $495.

Yeah, I agree bugs should be fixed, but if the engine itself is viewed as flawed, nobody is going to stay long enough to find out what the bugs are.

Click to expand...

Er.. what?

I have hard time relating this post to anything anyone posted in this thread. Must be a mispost that belongs to VU notes thread prolly?

Fifth said:

Fix the economy: I'm assuming steamrolling over MU was done intentionally. Wrong decision. Hunting for MU was the core of the game for many many ppl. You can't just take it away, provide absolutely nothing in return and pretend nothing happened. Fix this mess, bring MU back. We don't care how, just do it.

Click to expand...

HEAR HEAR

I have nothing more to say except this sentnce which I have to add to get enough damn letters in my post.

Fifth said:

Er.. what?

I have hard time relating this post to anything anyone posted in this thread. Must be a mispost that belongs to VU notes thread prolly?

Click to expand...

Here's the relevance for those with a short memory.

Fifth said:

With the last VU we got another graphics update, which brought us visual improvements majority of players most likely can't see (simply because they play on low settings and can't care less about em anyway) and even for those who could see the difference was neglible. What everyone could experience was more bugs and messed up icons. If the intent was to piss off as many ppl as possible the VU definitely achieved it's purpose.

Click to expand...

The premise of your poll therefore is based off of a regressionist outlook. It seems that you wish for MindArk to cater to the least capable of our player base to retain them (despite having a disposable income so meager that they cannot afford a cheap computer), instead of pushing the limits to attract more players in higher income brackets.

That is a flawed premise for any company that seeks to expand their market share. When the update had zero impact on the low end players (as is conveniently stated in the OP), but had potential to expand appeal to those who have not yet committed to play, only a fool would vote to maintain the status quo.

I therefore did not participate in your poll, because the premise itself required me to submit to something I consider foolish and ill advised.

Edit: Some might say "Fix the bugs first, then expand!"

To them I say "And if there is budget to do only one thing right now, do you choose to cater to those who are already invested and thus not likely to leave, or do you choose to do something that has the potential to greatly expand your income in the near future by removing a development barrier?"

The best way forward is backwards. Let's say... SGA era?

Magyar_Republic said:

The premise of your poll therefore is based off of a regressionist outlook. [snip]

Click to expand...

Just to put things into perspective, let me tell you a story.
Disclaimer: It's just another story, any references to the Entropia are purely coincidental.

* * *

Once upon a time in a Universe far far away there was a planet that had not seen a single drop of rain in many years. Farmers were complaining about drought, famine and low MU...



... and about cows born with 2 legs and 2 heads and chickens with 5 legs!
The Priests were praying to the Gods day and night to stop the famine, drought and fix the damn chickens.

But the Most Holy MaLootius was silent.

The brave soldiers were complaining about heathen armies in the provinces who are using Black Magic against which their weapons are powerless.



But the Most Holy MaLootius was silent.

On the 7th month of the 7th year of drought the elders and priests and warlords got a message from the High Priestess of the Most Holy Malootius. The gods in their infinite wisdom have decided to turn their eyes towards men! They have promised them a gift!

The High Priest and High Priestess waited at the Holy Altar for 7 days and finally there it was - The Holy Gift!



"Holy crap! Wtf is that!?" said the elders and the priests and the warlords using the ancient most holy recital.

"The Almighty Malootius has spoken!" announced the High Priest.

"Pampax?" said the elders and the priests and the warlords, (not using the ancient most holy recital).
"But but but... our women are already using Potex!" said the elders and the priests and the warlords.
"And what about the famine and the drought and the 5-legged chickens and the black magic?"

"Irrelevant Ye heretics," said the High Priest dismally, "Gods in their infinite wisdom have decided to give us Pampax!"

"OK, OK, we don't want to anger the gods any further," said the elders and the priests and the warlords."From now on our women will be using Pampax, instead of Potex."
"But, what about us? And what about the famine, drought, 5-legged chickens and black magic?"

"What part of the Divine Message did you not understand?" said the High Priest "Go get a sex change operation, ye faggots!"

Magyar_Republic said:

So wait, lemme get this straight?

You're complaining because you have a crappy computer?

Your failure to budget properly and get a decent rig is not anyone's problem but yours. Got that? They're not exactly expensive. My little media center box runs EU on very high, and was only $495.

Yeah, I agree bugs should be fixed, but if the engine itself is viewed as flawed, nobody is going to stay long enough to find out what the bugs are.

Click to expand...

Love comments like this. "Failure to budget properly and buy a decent rig" - you may find that some people have other priorities than their computers and they are not the only thing (nor the most important thing) they spend money on.

Some of us have lives away from the screen, you know?

Irregardless, MA competing with other games on a graphical level when they have so few employees versus a company creating the next blockbuster game is retarded.

Concept and content are the two things MA have generated over their initial idea and the implementation of that idea over the previous 15 years. This is what they should concentrate on (and I think what OP was referring to).

Aio said:

Love comments like this. "Failure to budget properly and buy a decent rig" - you may find that some people have other priorities than their computers and they are not the only thing (nor the most important thing) they spend money on.

Some of us have lives away from the screen, you know?

Irregardless, MA competing with other games on a graphical level when they have so few employees versus a company creating the next blockbuster game is retarded.

Concept and content are the two things MA have generated over their initial idea and the implementation of that idea over the previous 15 years. This is what they should concentrate on (and I think what OP was referring to).

Click to expand...

There are many of us that have lives away from the screen. I'm one of them. Hiking, enjoying the rainforest, playing shows with my band, promoting music in the area, and work are all things I do outside EU.

My rationale is simple:

If you have money to play an RCE or even consider playing in an RCE you are not as poor as you might like others to believe you are. You can afford a computer. With graphics acceleration. If you bought your computer 6 years ago chances are it cost much more than a system now with similar modern day performance.

It's not like you need to go out every week and buy a new computer. The last new computer I bought was 2 years ago. My gaming desktop I bought in 2007, and simply replace the graphics card every 2 years or so.

The pity poor me defense is complete bullshit. So is the "I have a life outside the computer and you just dont understand."

Do you know how much time it takes to compose an album that isnt complete horse shit and record it? I've been working 3-5 days a week for almost 2 years now outside work writing songs myself and then taking them to the band to learn, play gigs at, retool to get maximum audience impact, and finally record, only to find out the recording sounds like trash, so retool again, relearn, etc. Not to mention paying for all the studio gear, and paying to build the studio in the first place.

If I can find time and money other people can too. No pity here.

Which brings me back to the original post: OP is simply wrong in their premise, as the premise rests on many people simply not seeing the benefits of patches like these.

Its not MA's fault people wont update their systems. That's all their fault. MA should not have to, under any circumstances, exclusively cater to folks who by their own decision making processes have told MA that they are not a viable potential source for increased income.

It's just poor business. No, not poor. It's bad business to do that.

Magyar_Republic said:

There are many of us that have lives away from the screen. I'm one of them. Hiking, enjoying the rainforest, playing shows with my band, promoting music in the area, and work are all things I do outside EU.

My rationale is simple:

If you have money to play an RCE or even consider playing in an RCE you are not as poor as you might like others to believe you are. You can afford a computer. With graphics acceleration. If you bought your computer 6 years ago chances are it cost much more than a system now with similar modern day performance.

It's not like you need to go out every week and buy a new computer. The last new computer I bought was 2 years ago. My gaming desktop I bought in 2007, and simply replace the graphics card every 2 years or so.

The pity poor me defense is complete bullshit. So is the "I have a life outside the computer and you just dont understand."

Click to expand...

Think you got the wrong end of the stick here. It's not a case of affordability - and I'm definitely not claiming I'm poor. However, I'm not going to spend money on a "gaming" computer because I either a) don't want a desktop computer in my house and b) don't want to spend £2,000 on a "gaming" laptop which looks like shit and is the size of a coffee table. I can play this game on high settings right now on my ultrabook and that's great.

My whole point is that you're not going to see a return on investment from building a fantastic looking game with no content (and this was also OP's point). You're not going to attract me, the person who wants something more than pretty explosions and scenery (i.e. depth, content, economy). You're also not going to keep the ADHD kids who need the graphics (let alone keep them spending). They will move on very quickly and you just won't see a ROI from the visual upgrade. We all saw this very well with the move to the new engine.

Do you know how much time it takes to compose an album that isnt complete horse shit and record it?

Click to expand...

Do you?

Aio said:

My whole point is that you're not going to see a return on investment from building a fantastic looking game with no content (and this was also OP's point). You're not going to attract me, the person who wants something more than pretty explosions and scenery (i.e. depth, content, economy).

Click to expand...

Yes absolutely. Thanx, Aio!


One of my oldest Entropia friends, entrepeneur both in-game and IRL, always plays on low or medium settings as long as I remember. I'm here to make peds, as he always says.
So, last year he bought a new gaming laptop, and when he mentioned the price I said he's crazy...
Here's where u ask the question: on what settings is he playing now?

Yeah, you guessed it.

Only one example, I know. Just wanted to say - that's how life is, different ppl play for different reasons... those fifty shades of gray, not black and white.



(and, btw, don't look at me, I don't speak for myself in this thread.
I'm a sucker for nice scenery and stylish clothes who always plays on highest settings)

I don't see so many bugs, so I think it's more important to create new content and improve and expand content and system already in place. Of coerce critical and very annoying bugs for the game-play should get a priority. A good mix of new content and fixing bugs/improvement of old it the best. They should expand and improve the vehicle system. But I guess the "housing" system for the land-plots are taking all the resources for now (and of coerce compet).

For the economy... well, to get MU you need more demand than supply. So increase the demand, more decay on items, or decrease the supply, less items/resources in the loot and more peds/ammo. I guess we will have a different whining either way..... I vote for more decay.

Aio said:

My whole point is that you're not going to see a return on investment from building a fantastic looking game with no content (and this was also OP's point). You're not going to attract me, the person who wants something more than pretty explosions and scenery (i.e. depth, content, economy). You're also not going to keep the ADHD kids who need the graphics (let alone keep them spending). They will move on very quickly and you just won't see a ROI from the visual upgrade. We all saw this very well with the move to the new engine.

Click to expand...

Agree.
Human eye can capture RL images at incredible resolution and human brain can process it super fast without heat and screaming fan and ofc no any lag.
No way that players are looking in an game things they already have in RL like buildings and scenery.
Graphics can add to good felling but is not essential.
So why should one buy super computer?
Just to avoid seeing red crosses everywhere in game?
But that "super computer" alone cant bring back in game sit down / lie down function, sweating without tool or add any interesting gameplay.
Or is there new rule as if i buy new comp i will get weapon sounds finally fixed?
Maybe if i get really big computer I will get further MF development, space developments, taming, economy, some nerfed profession back and so on?
But friend have such big expensive computer and he still see red crosses and no new content.

I think there are folks in this thread who fail to understand the mentality of the modern gamer.

Here's a link to a thread about this topic from outside voices. I didnt read through the whole thing, but you'll find arguments on both sides of the fence for graphics. That's expected.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/68422/your-oppinnion-on-how-important-are-graphics

My point is not solely graphics though. It's about expandability. Its about opening doors to allow for new content to be added.

You guys are so myopically focused on the lack of content in this particular patch that you completely fail to see that some patches wont immediately seem valuable, but if you dont do them then the things that follow are not possible at all. Ever heard the saying "Putting the cart before the horse?" Too often it seems like folks are all piled onto the cart ready to go somewhere, but nobody has even bothered to ask where the horse is, who is getting it, or when it is due to arrive.

To me that's sad, as it is indicative of a bunch of folks who have lost patience.

Oh, and Aio, to answer your other unrelated (troll) question --- Here I am in the studio working with our recording engineer on guitar tracks. We spent 4 months working on 4 songs to dial in the albums sound because they didnt sound alive enough to be on a record after they were mixed. I'll include another member of the group in the same studio, since basically every 3rd person here is an amateur private investigator with some bullshit theory. Got any other smartass remarks?



I'll happily post a few 30 second samples here after we get the record mastered. So far the folks that have heard what we have put together have all had the same word to describe it. "Amazing."

Cheers!

Magyar_Republic said:

My point is not solely graphics though. It's about expandability. Its about opening doors to allow for new content to be added.

Click to expand...

I like expandability and I'm all for the new doors to be opened. I also tend to be sceptic about anything unless there's some facts to back up the story. I must have missed those. I would like more info, can you please point me to the right direction? (serious, no irony)
Thanx!

Fifth said:

I like expandability and I'm all for the new doors to be opened. I also tend to be sceptic about anything unless there's some facts to back up the story. I must have missed those. I would like more info, can you please point me to the right direction? (serious, no irony)
Thanx!

Click to expand...

I'm a tech developer myself in real life. People are always demanding patches and updates they can feel. Sometimes they simply dont exist though.

Not every patch that you put out is going to please everyone. Some of them, and sometimes the biggest ones, are behind the scenes stuff that fill out the roadmap so you can do the 'next up' things.

That's just how it works. Anyone who does any level of software development can tell you this. The patch notes themselves are telling you that this is what happened this time, if you know how to read them.

Think about it. Performance is being increased. Why optimize performance if your plan is to stand still with it?

We are still at only 4% of votes about opening doors to allow for new content to be added from the mentality of the modern gamer.
I guess remaining 96% belong to other type of market and players with not so modern mentality.
So MA have to chose to advertise gambling to 13 years old kids which are mostly unable to deposit and pay and get pice of market with customers with mentality of modern gamer or continue to develop and offer services for already existing and successful market with retard gamblers and addicted grinders right?