Loot

Hi everyone,

I just wondering, what ppl are thinking about the current loot we get.
I don't want talk about the longterm play average loot you get in weeks or months. (should be 90% if the myst is true)
I more want talk about the loot you get in 10 runs you do.

I more and more getting loot below 60% per run, and this hapen minimum in 7 of 10 runs.
I really feel like i bee a big looser, since this below 60% hapen more and more (per run). This situation start to destroy my game fun. Why I should play, if i know, the next run will be again below 60% ? Why i should do a depo, if i know my peds flight away like never before. I remember, in old times i got never that much bad loot as yet, it may hapened that i got verry rarly below 60%. But now, more and more i see this bad loot, near every run i do.

What I wondering, do I be alone to get this? Or have other ppl the same experiances, like i get. I know, that we cant get every run nice loot.. and MA need to make profit to run EU. This is not the problem. But the situation now, is really sad! It let me think to stop play EU, and go play other games, where my deposite last for months, and not only for 3-5 days like in EU.

This thread, ofc, could be a whining tread, but I more be interested to find out, what the loot experiances at others are.
I don't want whine, but the facts i get since some weeks let me think to discuss this loot situation.

It really sucks to get most of my runs only 60% and less. if i play, i will have fun, but the situation now, destroy all my fun i had left for EU.

had friends they had 95% tt return old days without any buffs

i was like 92-96% , keeping my track on different eco

But you should tell what gear u got , first of all

Bigger swings. I lost 2900 in 3 days on a couple mobs. But I continued on someother mobs and I'm +3100 after that. All I can say is that hopping around is what had killed my returns.

But 60% is easy to get if you do 300 ped here and there. Too small run size. If you're going to make a thread like this, you need to share your run sizes, your tracking sheet, and the gear you use.. otherwise were just responding to emotion and not facts.

I have a similar dryspell.
Almost every hunt is a big loss and not one good run to compensate it a bit.

Sadly i have no log to proof it but i belive in the 90% myth and hope for the big one

Have any logs to share from the last months ?

atomicstorm said:

Bigger swings. I lost 2900 in 3 days on a couple mobs. But I continued on someother mobs and I'm +3100 after that. All I can say is that hopping around is what had killed my returns.

But 60% is easy to get if you do 300 ped here and there. Too small run size. If you're going to make a thread like this, you need to share your run sizes, your tracking sheet, and the gear you use.. otherwise were just responding to emotion and not facts.

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I don't understand... MA somewhere stated that loot is not Avatar related.. so..

the fact u lost 2900 is not related to the hof u got after ..
the lost is a lost, and what u do after this should not be influenced by previous lost.

What i mean is that your Hof was building by the lost of previous players that farmed that mob or in that area

Antrace said:

I don't understand... MA somewhere stated that loot is not Avatar related.. so..

the fact u lost 2900 is not related to the hof u got after ..
the lost is a lost, and what u do after this should not be influenced by previous lost.

What i mean is that your Hof was building by the lost of previous players that farmed that mob or in that area

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Never got any hofs. I just cycle with nice gear.

Antrace said:

I don't understand... MA somewhere stated that loot is not Avatar related.. so..

the fact u lost 2900 is not related to the hof u got after ..
the lost is a lost, and what u do after this should not be influenced by previous lost.

What i mean is that your Hof was building by the lost of previous players that farmed that mob or in that area

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Similarily what is won is won. The only thing that matters in a topic like this is the ped-balance over amount of cycled ped.

I have had a day as low as 54.6% return an several around 60% but over a larger amount of cycled ped, I've still maintained over 97% tt-return

Cycle size is definitely of relevance.

if loot is not tied to your avatar at all - then why do we have even loot swings?

You dont see people getting 150% back and some people getting 65% back.
According to countless logs including my own - we all seem to get back 80-90% depending on gear.

I feel like if it was not tied to your avatar we would see larger % with diff avatars. Then it would truely be dynamic and random, as some people would be horribly unlucky, and some people would be extremly lucky.

We seem to have a "middle class' where most people are about the same, and just a handful super lucky, and a small handful really unlucky - or using bad tactics.

swampymonster said:

You dont see people getting 150% back and some people getting 65% back.

We seem to have a "middle class' where most people are about the same, and just a handful super lucky, and a small handful really unlucky - or using bad tactics.

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Or is it because the really unlucky ones tend to quit rather quickly since the cost to play gets too high. And the really lucky ones have been here long enough to know that success stories are not well received here? Which would leave only the middle class.

I dont know. Just speculations.

Swampy there are not enough logs on this forum to have any idea if many people are getting 150% vs 50% returns. I believe they are, in the short term or even medium term. But along a massive data sample it comes back to 90% for most of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers


A lot of people are in Antrance's mindset and expect some "big HOF" to bring them back to 90%. But this is not always the case. Especially in hunting I've found that rather than hitting a "big one", returns come back to 90% slowly but steadily through a series of +positive TT runs.

Its summer time. Less people playing, but MA still want their income. So fewer people have to pay for what alot of people used to.

Cheers

silas said:

Its summer time. Less people playing, but MA still want their income. So fewer people have to pay for what alot of people used to.

Cheers

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At the worst, less activity should only mean more violent loot swings for the big spenders, as the other big spenders are not around to keep the loot pool as healthy/stable.

Play it safe, tone down your activities and wait for people to return from vacation

silas said:

Its summer time. Less people playing, but MA still want their income. So fewer people have to pay for what alot of people used to.

Cheers

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Nope. That's not how it works. Mindark and planet partners only get a piece of what you cycle. Less activity, less income.. not less activity, higher rake. Rake is fixed.

Less activity creates higher varaiance.

atomicstorm said:

Nope. That's not how it works. Mindark and planet partners only get a piece of what you cycle. Less activity, less income.. not less activity, higher rake. Rake is fixed.

Less activity creates higher varaiance.

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is that somehow proven? i know my theory aint proven. But unless you have proof, my theory is as good as yours

Cheers

Really it's statistics 101...

There is no personal loot pool and there are good luck and bad luck streaks (called statistical anomalies), but given a big enough statistical sample, the luck tends to equalize and the variations to be reasonable small.

Is the very same thing as tossing a coin - if you toss it 10 times, it is very possible that you'll get a large variation from the 50-50 expected return; if you toss it 100 or 1000 times you'll probably see how said variation gets lower and lower; and, finally, if you throw it 1,000,000 times, despite maybe having moments when the coin will land a lot of times on a single side, the final result will be darn close to 50-50.

What you say that previous events don't affect next events is true, and there is really no way that statistic will help you determine what your next toss (or your next hunt) result will be, but it sure can help determine the expected result over a large enough sample.

DoA said:

There is no personal loot pool

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Maybe there is no personal loot pool but it isnt really random either, if you hunt with a 10/10 high eco weapon you get smaller globals/hofs then with a bad eco 10/10 weapon and in a really bad lot phases all players seems to loose big...and so on

Every time there is a patch or maintenance period, it affects MY loot and returns. It's usually only for the day following the downtime, but sometimes it has a bigger or longer-lasting effect (as is the case presently).
The last "wreck the graphics" patch also wrecked loot big time.

People often suggest taking a break for a couple days when this happens... except a day or two break turned into 2 years away last time.

Alina said:

had friends they had 95% tt return old days without any buffs

i was like 92-96% , keeping my track on different eco

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Didn't you have pretty good gear back then, and had friends who also had?

Those Days, it was hard to become a billionaire if you begin with Jester D-1 and A103, and your stepup option was kobold, Determination and EK-2500 fap (even though the EK2500 fap gave great fapping skills). Also, it was when I begun when the nice items generally was thinning out in loot. [Now I'm speaking year 2006-2007 or so]

If your friends had imk2+a106 or a204, mod fap and angel/shadow it was probably a bit easier to keep profit up (armor to be able to hunt mobs with a bigger chance to drop nice items).

For low-level players, instead of todays SIB weapons, there was the fap-5 and axe-1 that had good eco. However eco on axe-1 was reduced from 5.something to 4.something; though imk2 and the a-series of amps (perticularily a106 and a204 kept their eco). So if you had mod fap (source: duping) and imk2 with a106/a204 you had the ideal setup. Today imk2 is slow, but those Days there were basically no regen mobs. Fap-5 still kept its great eco ar around 10, which now is the normal level for the new SIB faps.

The problem with loots today, is when doing Kongs (on Rocktropia), that might drop Ufo (42 ped TT) or map fragments 1 ped TT each (pieces needed to access further areas). It's not fun when a mob that COSTs 500 ped to kill drops say 250 ped, you spend 20 ped ammo, and you get 2 ped loot in your loot window because of quantification (ie big ESI drop, 100 ped stackables and things like that).

Arkadia had the same kind of problem with the underground events, when most of the loot on the mobs were (L) melle amps, so if two people shot at the same shared mob, one could get the loot (the melee amp) and the other shooter got nothing. Then it spread to the Surface with the loot gotten quantified into axes intead.

But, again, for kongs having several <500 ped zombie kongs or <1000 ped kong kongs in a row definitely is a ped card killer. And it doesn't help *your* ped card that there was a 250k HOF next morning...

thanks ppl for so many posts, really interesting to read!

I told in my 1. post, that i dont talk about the average loot in long term. more about the regulary runs you do.

Some asked about my gear. i use for mining 106 finder no amps, for hunt i use a elm eco blade or elm lc 240, since a very long time now. longer as my bad wave last.

I use boar UL armor, and most i dont hunt big creatures, where i have to fap a lot. i dont mine with droping to short. i mine since 10 years, and i do hunt since 10 years. my best hunt skill is lev 64.5 and mining is lev 43 pro.

I most don't do risky things, and if i do, then i agree, that it may end in a desaster. I do more or less do the same as i always be doing, hunt ecco as possible, don't risk too much and so on. I most doing runs between 300-500 peds, exceptmy ped card get low. then i do some smaller things.

trance said:

thanks ppl for so many posts, really interesting to read!

I told in my 1. post, that i dont talk about the average loot in long term. more about the regulary runs you do.

Some asked about my gear. i use for mining 106 finder no amps, for hunt i use a elm eco blade or elm lc 240, ince a very long time now. longer as my bad wave last.

I use boar UL armor, and most i dont hunt big creatures, where i have to fap a lot. i dont mine with droping to short. i mine since 10 years, and i do hunt since 10 years. my best hunt skill is lev 64.5 and mining is lev 43 pro.

I most don't do risky things, and if i do, then i agree, that it may end in a desaster. I do more or less do the same as i always be doing, hunt ecco as possible, don't risk too much and so on. I most doing runs between 300-500 peds, exceptmy ped card get low. then i do some smaller things.

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I have multiple 70% runs all the time. You can see it in my recent logs. Downswings can be long and brutal. That's the nature of the game. And that's why you need to chase markup.

If you're getting decent markup, 70% TT return hurts a lot less, and this allows you to keep cycling on a smaller budget until your returns stabilize.

Is this a smart way to design a game? I don't know. Mindark seems to be doing ok.

Brutal is a good word for my losses lately. I just really have been in a bad downswing for a long time even with depositing. I'm basically broke again.

500 kills should be the minimum of any run size. Anything less will create unfavorable results whether with bad returns or shorting yourself of a good return.

If your ped card is also the size of your hunt, you have ano extreme high risk of ruin and the appropriate play would be not to play and increase your bankroll.

I think we're missing the important part, to enjoy the game...most of us have been playing for quite some time so we know the drill to suck it up and keep pushing.
But how fun is it really to have 10 runs at 50-70% where 80% of loot is shrapnel and ammo?
It's utter shit

I'm hunting small stuff now and I have an easy time going through quite a few 100peds just on stuff like corn but how much fun would it be if 100ped was all I had as a noob and I came back with 60%? there would hardly be hunt nr2.
I'd give up pretty quick as a new player tbh

I think one of the problem is that we have to few players on too many servers and spread on too many mobs. The loot probably depends on server and/or mobs type. With more player on the same server the loot system makes the loot more average and with less variations. Players hording peds and stacks off loot in storage could also be a problem.

And also, today we probably have more player that play "eco", harder competition compared to some years ago, some years ago we probably had more player that burned more peds on "un-eco" hunting giving more loot to some other players. At least that is what I think.

johan roadkill said:

I think we're missing the important part, to enjoy the game...most of us have been playing for quite some time so we know the drill to suck it up and keep pushing.
But how fun is it really to have 10 runs at 50-70% where 80% of loot is shrapnel and ammo?
It's utter shit

I'm hunting small stuff now and I have an easy time going through quite a few 100peds just on stuff like corn but how much fun would it be if 100ped was all I had as a noob and I came back with 60%? there would hardly be hunt nr2.
I'd give up pretty quick as a new player tbh

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Yup I agree the new player experience is rough and needs refinement.

The worst part about it is the auction fees. Makes it nearly impossible to get decent markup on your loot as a newbie with a small PED card.

I was thinking they could have a "newbie auction house" with no fees. But we all know that the people with alt accounts would abuse this immediately ^^

My last runs were 44%, 91%, 128%, 108% TT return. Month average: 96.1%.
MU on this mob is pretty much nonexistent so that's it.

Averaqe run 1300-1600 ped, no hopping around, no changing mobs, main weapon @ 2.997 base dpp, avg. defensive cost less than 2%.

Fifth said:

My last runs were 44%, 91%, 128%, 108% TT return. Month average: 96.1%.
MU on this mob is pretty much nonexistent so that's it.

Averaqe run 1300-1600 ped, no hopping around, no changing mobs, main weapon @ 2.997 base dpp, avg. defensive cost less than 2%.

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I've found that when I stick to one activity my returns are the most stable. When I mix hunting and mining things get a bit funky. This is mostly just my own speculation.

My last ~4k Cycled ended at 98% w/ 110% average MU.

My Last ~30k cycled (mostly mining, with some hunting and indoor mining mixed in) was closer to 87-88% TT return.

DoA said:

Really it's statistics 101...

There is no personal loot pool and there are good luck and bad luck streaks (called statistical anomalies), but given a big enough statistical sample, the luck tends to equalize and the variations to be reasonable small.

What you say that previous events don't affect next events is true, and there is really no way that statistic will help you determine what your next toss (or your next hunt) result will be, but it sure can help determine the expected result over a large enough sample.

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this.. ..

only a huge sample of killing will give a statistical 90% return..

so it is not correct to say, because i had 60% return if u go on hunting u'll go back to 90%.. and it is wrong to think that a previous bad hunt will give a good return in next hunt section.. this is a common gamblers mistake

#atomic
i supposed u had a hof, but u can change the "hof" word with "good return"

what i dont understand, in statistics terms, is that if u change hunted mobs, or place , your statistic variables should be resetted everytime and i see quite impossible to get a setted average % of return.. it should be more random and not predictable.

Antrace said:

what i dont understand, in statistics terms, is that if u change hunted mobs, or place , your statistic variables should be resetted everytime and i see quite impossible to get a setted average % of return.. it should be more random and not predictable.

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Why do you think this? The universe has 1 loot pool. I don't understand why anyone would think changing mobs/location/etc would affect their TT returns. There is no secret to TT returns.