Dishonorable Deal

Mercury

Marauder
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Posts
6,648
Location
Michigan, USA
Society
Dark Templar
Avatar Name
Jenna "Star" Mercury
So I know we can't post other player's names here. I have taken BO on the MK1 sight from "niglet". This is his name on forum and his name ingame is <removed>. I realize we aren't allowed to post names on this forum. Any mod who wishes to remove this name, should at least read this post first and then decide if this is something we want in our community.

The guy posted that he had a MK1 Scope for sale. I saw corvette had already posted BO, then I scrolled down and he clarified that he had a MK1 Sight for sale instead and had misnamed it. I sent him a PM on forum and he said he still had it and I took BO. He stated he'd be ingame and I logged in. I asked if he wanted CLD or PED and he said he preferred PED. I asked if 1 hour was ok and he said sure, not a problem (I had to take my daughter to volleyball).

I got back and tt'd some stuff that I wouldn't have in order to pay him. Of course as I was just reaching the 10k to pay him, he pm's me that an old friend wants the sight and the deal is off. I lost about 400 PED in markup...maybe more.

The reason I'm posting this, isn't just because of his actions. Isn't his NAME already offensive? I feel I had to post his forum name in order to show it? "Niglet" is a term used for an African American child. It is completely derogatory and uncalled for. He's had other such incidences of being a completely disrespectful trader.

Why is he allowed to do such activities and have such a name on this forum? I feel like he was just posting this Scope (actually a sight) to fuck with people - he didn't even have one most likely to sell.

P.S. I have some screenshots of our conversation if what I'm saying is doubted in any way.
 
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Goes back to the whole thing DannyO was talking about with randomers accounts selling high-end stuff.

For me, it's unfortunate but I'm sceptical buying from anyone I don't recognise (especially with high-end stuff). Don't like exposing myself to the risk that the item they are selling doesn't exist / was stolen / they will fuck me about.

Much more comfortable dealing with yourself Star or Tzepu etc.
 
Not sure about the name. I have a business partner who's IRL surname is Niglet. I had no idea it had a negative meaning.
 
With regard to the forum name, as suggested above it may be completely unintentional. I for one would have no idea it might mean anything to anyone, just like my avatar's middle name is apparently German for World Champion! It was just a nickname I had in my younger years which I used for the sake of registering a PE account. We have people of all backgrounds and nationalities so chances are some names or phrases are likely to mean something in some culture.

With regard to the deal, this might not be completely dishonourable or intended to malicious - but of course we don't see the conversation you guys have had. Playing devil's advocate there perhaps.
 
Just to keep the conversation rolling:

You didn't have problem with his names when you decided to buy the item :scratch2:

My last trade was with the avatar I Scam You, but he looked so nice at first.

Not that name like AxeMurderer is more trustworthy :laugh:

TLDR: Are we good people or we just pretend to be.
 
Just to keep the conversation rolling:

You didn't have problem with his names when you decided to buy the item :scratch2:

My last trade was with the avatar I Scam You, but he looked so nice at first.

Not that name like AxeMurderer is more trustworthy :laugh:

TLDR: Are we good people or we just pretend to be.

Yes, I saw the name and thought it was suspicious and shady. I once was ripped off in EU by a guy named "Robber Robber Thief".

For the person we're discussing, his end of the conversation was mostly pleasant. I don't know whether or not he's a ligit player or not. I don't think his actions were fair. The conversation wasn't him being abusive. He did say something to the effect that I wasn't one to talk about honor. He wouldn't name the "friend" who had bought the sight instead of me in order to prove it wasn't just a higher bidder. I figured it was fair to at least name the friend so I could discuss what had happened with that person (and that I'd lost PED freeing up the money).

Aside from the deal, I realize there are many languages here in EU and regulating names isn't exactly easy. The word "Niglet" is pretty much as offensive a word as anyone could dream up in the USA. I can't even write the "N" word it stems from due to how unacceptable it is in our country. It stems from a time when white people owned slaves from Africa. The "let" portion of the word means "little". Like Piglet from Winnie the Pooh.
 
pot20kettle20black20by20john20takai20dreamstime.jpg
 
Yeah you was happy enough to make a deal with at start eventthough his name is so offensive to you. This thread seems like revenge smear campaign just because seller changed his mind.
 
Yeah you was happy enough to make a deal with at start eventthough his name is so offensive to you. This thread seems like revenge smear campaign just because seller changed his mind.

There was clearly more than just a changing of mind. He received a buyout offer for one item, then changed it to another item, then received a buyout offer on the second item and suddenly he wasn't selling it any more. It has shady written all over it.
 
His actions are not the best, but about the name I cant say anything.
Some people actually dislike my name "Perv", but I can assure you its only a name, used when creating a female avatar with the biggest boobs possible. (thinking of the movie Weird Science)
 
Honestly man, this is a game and there are no consumer protections for trades as contracts. Not much you can do. The deal isn't done or even a "for sure thing" until currencies are exchanged.

Really it was your own prerogative that you TT'd the items to meet the 10K. Had you made that known to the other party by saying "hey I have to tt stuff to reach the 10k and I'm going to lose markup on it... Is this a for sure trade?" You may have gained some clarification.

Not justifying his actions, I'm just saying you should've been more cautious. Still a shady deal and I'm sure he'll get some bad rep for it.

Advertising a sale is an invitation for offers, not an offer itself.

Lesson = be more careful
 
Honestly man, this is a game and there are no consumer protections for trades as contracts. Not much you can do. The deal isn't done or even a "for sure thing" until currencies are exchanged.

Really it was your own prerogative that you TT'd the items to meet the 10K. Had you made that known to the other party by saying "hey I have to tt stuff to reach the 10k and I'm going to lose markup on it... Is this a for sure trade?" You may have gained some clarification.

Not justifying his actions, I'm just saying you should've been more cautious. Still a shady deal and I'm sure he'll get some bad rep for it.

Advertising a sale is an invitation for offers, not an offer itself.

Lesson = be more careful

While I feel for you Mercury and believe it is bullsh*t to what he did, I feel that Rocket is right here. Some people are not true to their word and that is when this stuff happens. Unfortunately, there is nothing to do here but be more careful of trading with these types of players.

On a side note, I agree on all of your points about their username on pcf. Even if that may be his name IRL, I believe that he should be asked to change it. Otherwise, what's stopping me from making a PCF username of Dick Fag Khunt and argue that this is my 'name'.
 
To moderators

Either:

1) change the rules
2) make no difference which player does the naming and shaming, even when they used to be a pornstar.

I hope you choose 1
 
As a side note,
when I needed quick money for a deal, I used Tzepu's service.
It costed me only 2 peds something to get 1600 ped loan for a day.
 
Just a thought. I know people prefer ped, but if its a trader, maybe next time offer the items you are going to tt and tell them they could make an extra 400 ped in mu if they take them instead of the ped, it might have been a motivator to clinch the deal. Assuming he was being square to begin with before changing his mind.
 
There was clearly more than just a changing of mind. He received a buyout offer for one item, then changed it to another item, then received a buyout offer on the second item and suddenly he wasn't selling it any more. It has shady written all over it.
I agree. After all this, plus considering this guy is a complete unknown to me, I would ask him to show me the item first to make sure he actually has it. No need to even meet the guy, linking in chat would do the trick. Most noobs don't know how to link without having the item in inventory...
 
Herman XP-1 Scanthi Edition : scout bilbo nisse : Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:04:18

i recall renting his gun and shorten it up (screw the deal) to rent it to someone else. not his first behavior but i think this is not a fake sale
 
I can't speak on the subject of the name. I think there is a clash of cultures here.

As for the deal, it is a massive pain in the ass but I am not convinced it is shady. A lot of buyers (and sellers), flake out like this. They want to sell an item, someone jumps to buy it and they suddenly get buyer's/seller's remorse. The pain point is that the deal isn't solid until the green box is lit and both people hit accept. There's no rule that they can't back out of a trade at any time. The only sure way to guarantee that is a bid on an auction.

I really like the idea of offering the TT items for trade. It means you don't have to get rid of those items until the moment of the trade, and they get what they are after. And if they flake out, you are unaffected, for the most part.

Some people just don't care if everyone else knows they're flaky I guess...
 
To moderators

Either:

1) change the rules
2) make no difference which player does the naming and shaming, even when they used to be a pornstar.

I hope you choose 1


moderator.jpg


The rule will not be changed. If you read the actual rule in question, you'll probably understand that it sometimes is a fine line of judgement, as the rule specifically prohibits "scamming accusations". It doesn't mean that you are not allowed to mention someone. In this case it is hard to judge, and I let it go by. It has nothing to do with who posts it.



2.13 - Scamming Accusation
Accusations of scamming that name specific real-world persons, Entropia Universe avatars or PlanetCalypsoForum.com members are NOT permitted. Providing other identifying information about accused persons or avatars is also not permitted, such as but not limited to: society names, nicknames, owned gear, equipment, estates, etc. Such threads or posts will be edited, deleted or locked without notice. For more info on the purpose of this rule, please see this thread: Rationale for the "no naming and shaming" forum rule.
 
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I've bid buyout on this forum and then the guy told me "sorry, someone else offered more." (not this guy)
 
It isn't like this is the first time this has happened - I've done my fair share of trading as you know. I knew full well he could flake out. I guess the fact that he was very polite and seemed to be ok with holding it made me think this guy was different than his shitty forum name. He was assuring me it was "no problem to wait a bit". I even pm'd him when back from dropping off my daughter saying I had 7k and would have the rest very soon...

The name has bothered me since the first time I saw it. I'm not the "tattle-tale" type so I didn't say shit. I figured a moderator would notice it when he posted anyway. Now that I see the guy post the wrong item, then edit it after getting a buyout, then back out of a 2nd buyout once the item was corrected - I can't exactly let it go. I figured I'd at least let everyone else know.

I don't expect special treatment about the naming policy. I simply asked the Moderators to read it and decide if it was something they think should be brought to the community's attention.
 
To dishonor a deal is kinda trash!


Since youre a hyper active trader and deal with an awful lot more people than i do i can't say how practical this is in your situation but if i deal with someone i never dealt before and buy something expensive from them i request to see the item ingame before i think of freeing peds unless its a well known person for trading or on PCF. If i find someone shady but the deal looks good im extra careful so i dont screw it up and if this person gets impatient and call the deal off i just shrug it off and think he probably wanted to scam me anyways.
 
moderator.jpg


The rule will not be changed. If you read the actual rule in question, you'll probably understand that it sometimes is a fine line of judgement, as the rule specifically prohibits "scamming accusations". It doesn't mean that you are not allowed to mention someone. In this case it is hard to judge, and I let it go by. It has nothing to do with who posts it. And finally, the rule will most likely never be changed.



2.13 - Scamming Accusation
Accusations of scamming that name specific real-world persons, Entropia Universe avatars or PlanetCalypsoForum.com members are NOT permitted. Providing other identifying information about accused persons or avatars is also not permitted, such as but not limited to: society names, nicknames, owned gear, equipment, estates, etc. Such threads or posts will be edited, deleted or locked without notice. For more info on the purpose of this rule, please see this thread: Rationale for the "no naming and shaming" forum rule.

So I know we can't post other player's names here. I have taken BO on the MK1 sight from "niglet". This is his name on forum and his name ingame is <removed>. I realize we aren't allowed to post names on this forum. Any mod who wishes to remove this name, should at least read this post first and then decide if this is something we want in our community.

The guy posted that he had a MK1 Scope for sale. I saw corvette had already posted BO, then I scrolled down and he clarified that he had a MK1 Sight for sale instead and had misnamed it. I sent him a PM on forum and he said he still had it and I took BO. He stated he'd be ingame and I logged in. I asked if he wanted CLD or PED and he said he preferred PED. I asked if 1 hour was ok and he said sure, not a problem (I had to take my daughter to volleyball).

I got back and tt'd some stuff that I wouldn't have in order to pay him. Of course as I was just reaching the 10k to pay him, he pm's me that an old friend wants the sight and the deal is off. I lost about 400 PED in markup...maybe more.

The reason I'm posting this, isn't just because of his actions. Isn't his NAME already offensive? I feel I had to post his forum name in order to show it? "Niglet" is a term used for an African American child. It is completely derogatory and uncalled for. He's had other such incidences of being a completely disrespectful trader.

Why is he allowed to do such activities and have such a name on this forum? I feel like he was just posting this Scope (actually a sight) to fuck with people - he didn't even have one most likely to sell.

P.S. I have some screenshots of our conversation if what I'm saying is doubted in any way.

In my opinion the bolded part falls under forum rule naming and shaming.

The topic of the thread should be is all usernames allowed even if they are racist in some part of the world.
 
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In my opinion the bolded part falls under forum rule naming and shaming.

The topic of the thread should be is all usernames allowed even if they are racist in some part of the world.

If the mods on this forum, who go way overboard on protecting scammers, don't consider this to be a name and shame, it's not.

If it were, it would have been long gone.
 
Can't comment on the name. I have however rejected applicants to soc with seriously dodgey names!

The trouble with any sort of trading is its first come first serve. It could well be it was all utter tosh, but if you hadn't left a deposit and someone bought it first, it's just one of those things.

I on occasion sell bits and bobs on Facebook. I usually get bombarded with people wanting to collect things on x date. As much as I'd like to hold it for the first person who contacted, with no proof that they will turn up it really has to be first to come buy it gets it.


Sorry to hear you lost out on this occasion, but I am sure you are big enough to let it be water off a ducks back, and just remember his name :)
 
moderator.jpg


The rule will not be changed. If you read the actual rule in question, you'll probably understand that it sometimes is a fine line of judgement, as the rule specifically prohibits "scamming accusations". It doesn't mean that you are not allowed to mention someone. In this case it is hard to judge, and I let it go by. It has nothing to do with who posts it. And finally, the rule will most likely never be changed.



2.13 - Scamming Accusation
Accusations of scamming that name specific real-world persons, Entropia Universe avatars or PlanetCalypsoForum.com members are NOT permitted. Providing other identifying information about accused persons or avatars is also not permitted, such as but not limited to: society names, nicknames, owned gear, equipment, estates, etc. Such threads or posts will be edited, deleted or locked without notice. For more info on the purpose of this rule, please see this thread: Rationale for the "no naming and shaming" forum rule.

Ok so we won't use the words scamming, but use " completely disrespectful trader" , " to fuck with people" and "shady deal" .
And all is rosy and peachy. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
/mod note/

I'll break this into 2 parts:
1. Forum Name.
Forum Rules said:
1.6 - Member Names
Member names may NOT contain any offensive, racist, sexually explicit, profane, abusive or otherwise objectionable terms. Also, you may NOT use a confusing or intentionally misleading member name, such as "Official Entropia Reporter" or a member name that is confusingly similar to that of an existing member, administrator or moderator.
No, I don't check every new forum account name to see if it might be offensive in some part of the world. (It's a global forum. Each country has offensive slang that might not be obvious to people from a different country. I'm sure I could find some derogatory Aussie slang that Americans wouldn't recognise :))
So, if you find a forum account name offensive, please report it to a mod rather than making a thread about it. We'll take it up with the person directly.
As e-lite points out, in part of the world this word may be an unremarkable RL surname.


2. Trade not completed
Forum Rules said:
5.4 - Trading Execution
Any member who routinely fails to follow through on sales or purchases made in the Trading forum risks losing access to this portion of PlanetCalypsoForum. If you feel another member has acted unfairly in a Trading thread, or does not honor an agreement finalized in a Trading thread, please contact the Forum Staff explaining the issue, along with a link to the related Trading thread.
(Note the word routinely in the above.
There is always a risk of any person-to-person trade not being completed, regardless of what has been discussed and 'agreed'. IIRC, even in RL, contract law acknowledges that an advertisement is an 'invitation to treat', not a contract of sale.
TT'ing items, to raise PED quickly, is your own decision. Another way to look at this is: perhaps you shouldn't have made a buyout offer unless you already had the funds in place and were able to trade immediately. Making a buyout with caveats ("I need to sell some things first", "I can't meet you for some time" or whatever) leaves a possibility that the seller may accept an equal offer from someone else who can complete the transaction right away.

Note that failing to complete a trade, where there has been no exchange of goods whatever, can hardly be considered a 'scam'.
Smearing someone's character here because an agreement with them fell through isn't at all appropriate though.
 
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