EP Economics Question

Fforest

Dominant
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Posts
412
Location
Manchester, UK
Society
Project -X-
Avatar Name
Travis Fforest Cutter
OK. Can someone please explain to me how EP crafting is good for the game? Every time I see a six digit ATH from something that only needs a level 15 profession and uses TT components a little part of my love for this game dies.

Like everyone who doesn't craft these, all I see if a HOF board dominated by nothing else, so I would appreciate some grown up yet simple explanation of why this shouldn't bother me so much.

Just to get a few things out there:
1. Huge Gratz to Johnson Theragra Knewb. This is about the game, not the players.
2. How can something that only requires a level 15 skill and a willingness to gamble peds pay out so much and be good for the whole game? Is there anything that can be hunted at that level and pay out so well?
3. I always laughed at the analogies comparing this game to a casino, but providing a 'closed loop' system like EP that has no real interaction with the other professions and economy now makes me question that.
4. Yes I am jealous. There are so many things I would love to buy in this game but can't afford. I would love to meet anyone who can hold their hand up and say they are not a little jealous of any six figure ATH.

So, to try and keep this on track, I am after a sensible explanation in economic terms of why EP enhance the economy of the game, NOT a repetition of whether they should be removed, have the ingredients changed etc. I have seen those already :) I would just love a reason not to get so grumpy when I see the ATH's and a HOF board filled with nothing else.

Ff
 
try clickin them on condition like all them big gamblers do, you will c they r most prob still in the - with them big hits, MA love ppl clickin them there here for ever lol its dynamic
 
OK. Can someone please explain to me how EP crafting is good for the game? Every time I see a six digit ATH from something that only needs a level 15 profession and uses TT components a little part of my love for this game dies.

Like everyone who doesn't craft these, all I see if a HOF board dominated by nothing else, so I would appreciate some grown up yet simple explanation of why this shouldn't bother me so much.

Just to get a few things out there:
1. Huge Gratz to Johnson Theragra Knewb. This is about the game, not the players.
2. How can something that only requires a level 15 skill and a willingness to gamble peds pay out so much and be good for the whole game? Is there anything that can be hunted at that level and pay out so well?
3. I always laughed at the analogies comparing this game to a casino, but providing a 'closed loop' system like EP that has no real interaction with the other professions and economy now makes me question that.
4. Yes I am jealous. There are so many things I would love to buy in this game but can't afford. I would love to meet anyone who can hold their hand up and say they are not a little jealous of any six figure ATH.

So, to try and keep this on track, I am after a sensible explanation in economic terms of why EP enhance the economy of the game, NOT a repetition of whether they should be removed, have the ingredients changed etc. I have seen those already :) I would just love a reason not to get so grumpy when I see the ATH's and a HOF board filled with nothing else.

Ff

Something that people forget is that not 100% if inputted money in EP crafting goes back in winnings. Just like a slot machine at the casino, only a certain percentage goes back out. Also, not to forget is that "most" people on the EP crafting that receive HUGE payouts (HoF) has most likely put in many many times that into the machine. Only very few people will get that huge payout without "paying for it" in before hand.
 
a far shot...

the only thing I can think of, and it s quite far out I realize that, is that theoretically we all stand to gain from a higher turnover ingame

having said that: another way to generate this turnover is to be preferred over EP, as it doesn't help the economy in any way I can see
 
Of course explosive projectiles crafting is good for the game company. In the short run.

We called it a casino for a decade (not so often the half decade before that) and now it is a casino proper:
no need to interact with others or experience the game
no need to get to know the mechanics and do any varied activities
no need to do anything other than buy chips and go to the slot machine

I have no doubt people realize this and stop feeding money into the machine. Right?
 
try clickin them on condition like all them big gamblers do, you will c they r most prob still in the - with them big hits, MA love ppl clickin them there here for ever lol its dynamic

Fair point. Unfortunately my free cash for the game isn't enough to try that, otherwise I probably would and have found things out the hard way instead of asking.

Something that people forget is that not 100% if inputted money in EP crafting goes back in winnings. Just like a slot machine at the casino, only a certain percentage goes back out. Also, not to forget is that "most" people on the EP crafting that receive HUGE payouts (HoF) has most likely put in many many times that into the machine. Only very few people will get that huge payout without "paying for it" in before hand.

OK, another constructive comment, thank you. I guess not enough of the downsides of EP crafting make it out to the wider player base to balance out what we can see, which is just the icing on the cake so to speak.
 
I have no doubt people realize this and stop feeding money into the machine. Right?

You would think so, but I still have to deposit so that I can hunt :)
 
You would think so, but I still have to deposit so that I can hunt :)

Rofl and you think Explo IV crafters on condition can do that without deposits ?

Wake up, please!
 
The only problem I see with it (as a miner) is that those gambling on EP would normally be gambling on things with markup and putting more money in my pocket.

I've come to the realization that my perspective is a greedy/nonsensical one.

EP crafters should not be blamed for Mindark's failure to stabilize/bolster the economy.

The whole "gambling mini-game" that you can even play on your PHONE APP thing makes me a little uncomfortable, though.
 
Is not the people complaining about HOFs in crafting also kind of gamblers? It's not the HOF that should pay-off, it's the constant crafting and return/markup on the items you craft that should pay-off. So don't focus on global and HOF, they even out in the long run. Too little markup on the items that are sold, and to high on the resources that are need to craft it often the problems. So if gamblers like to craft non-markup things, fine with me.
 
Rofl and you think Explo IV crafters on condition can do that without deposits ?

Wake up, please!

Your comment brings nothing to the discussion. To guide you back to my original question, rather than my own state of wakefulness, how does attracting all of these deposits into the game help the overall economy? A simple answer will do.
 
...it's the constant crafting and return/markup on the items you craft that should pay-off. So don't focus on global and HOF, they even out in the long run. Too little markup on the items that are sold, and to high on the resources that are need to craft it often the problems. So if gamblers like to craft non-markup things, fine with me.

Thank you. That is starting to sound like something that I can understand. Have too many people have been tempted away from crafting those return/markup items?
 
EP crafters should not be blamed for Mindark's failure to stabilize/bolster the economy.

I agree absolutely 100%.

The question is to try to understand the mechanics Mindark have put in place for EP and how the whole game is affected.

Worst case - we have something that benefits only MA and makes depositing players look like chumps
Best case - we have something that benefits MA to a degree, but also the entire game economy regardless of which profession.

I am looking to see if anyone can provide a rational explanation of why we are closer to the second case rather than the first.
 
I agree absolutely 100%.

Worst case - we have something that benefits only MA and makes depositing players look like chumps

I'm sure most of these players are well aware of the risks associated with their gambling. I don't see them as chumps. It's their money, it's their entertainment, if they want to pay for the adrenaline rush then that's on them. It most certainly benefits MA a great deal. I have zero doubts about that.

Best case - we have something that benefits MA to a degree, but also the entire game economy regardless of which profession.

I would not say it benefits the game economy. As people have pointed out in previous threads like this, EP crafting can best be described as "completed isolated" from the mainstream economy of EU.

Theoretically, for every 1 million PEDs fed into EP, 900k-950k PEDs should be feeding back out to the gamblers. It's not hurting the economy nor benefiting it. It's doing absolutely nothing except lining MA's pockets and giving gamblers some expensive entertainment.

Now... is it hurting the economy?

One argument you could make towards that is that the lower prices of residue have made (L) items much more affordable to craft. Consequently this has made amped mining very cheap, leading to an influx of supply which has crashed markup on mining goods and caused unamped mining to no longer be "easy profit" as it used to be.

The other argument is, of course these gamblers would normally be crafting using other BPs, which would bring them into the mainstream economy and make it overall healthier for hunters and miners.

I don't think either of these arguments justifies the removal of the BP.
 
Regardless if it hurts the economy for the company, it does nothing at all for the game as a game.
The main detrimental effect is a lack of interaction and removing the need to spend the time playing the game. Not just for the person who only walks up to the slot machine but for those a similar gambler would previously have bought materials off in the game.
It most certainly does hurt the economy if nobody logs on and plays some mobile casino app.
There are not many items in the game that in themselves are worth thousands of PED. Without a market for any of them, eventually there is only the TT value.
 
Each of those 6-digits is paid from probably 7-digits loses, and guess where the difference goes to. Whatever is good for MA is good for the game, if indirectly, especially if it's at expense of the gambling types who know the risks (or don't care). There are probably better ways to stay in the black than the EP madness, but hey, at least they are finally in the black.

And most of those ATHs promptly get cycled back into the pool anyway. Gamblers simply can't stop even when they hit a jackpot. Ask BabyOxide who waved goodbye to several ATHs already and apparently is not going to stop anytime soon.

Of course there is an alleged problem of EP destroying the economy, ruining the markup of minerals and loot, but I believe that EP just has become a scapegoat for all the deeper problems. There are still serious crafters who keep doing their job. If they do less of it is because there is much less demand for crafted armors/weapons/tools nowadays, thanks to SIB UL rain. Everything is dirt cheap and gets cheaper day by day. I don't know if it's good or bad, there are lots of things I love and hate about this situation.

So EP doesn't steal from the market and doesn't convert players to gamblers, it creates a new, completely isolated from the market niche for a different type of player who isn't really interested in the "main" game. EP is but a side game like Compet and in many senses has even less connections with EU than Compet. Remove it today and no one would notice the difference, except that we would have to find a new scapegoat.
 
Each of those 6-digits is paid from probably 7-digits loses, and guess where the difference goes to. Whatever is good for MA is good for the game, if indirectly, especially if it's at expense of the gambling types who know the risks (or don't care). There are probably better ways to stay in the black than the EP madness, but hey, at least they are finally in the black.

And most of those ATHs promptly get cycled back into the pool anyway. Gamblers simply can't stop even when they hit a jackpot. Ask BabyOxide who waved goodbye to several ATHs already and apparently is not going to stop anytime soon.

Of course there is an alleged problem of EP destroying the economy, ruining the markup of minerals and loot, but I believe that EP just has become a scapegoat for all the deeper problems. There are still serious crafters who keep doing their job. If they do less of it is because there is much less demand for crafted armors/weapons/tools nowadays, thanks to SIB UL rain. Everything is dirt cheap and gets cheaper day by day. I don't know if it's good or bad, there are lots of things I love and hate about this situation.

So EP doesn't steal from the market and doesn't convert players to gamblers, it creates a new, completely isolated from the market niche for a different type of player who isn't really interested in the "main" game. EP is but a side game like Compet and in many senses has even less connections with EU than Compet. Remove it today and no one would notice the difference, except that we would have to find a new scapegoat.

Just the sort of constructive comments I was looking for. Thanks Svarog. You have highlighted both positive and negative effects which goes to prove there isn't such a clean cut argument for or against this pesky BP :)
 
Your comment brings nothing to the discussion. To guide you back to my original question, rather than my own state of wakefulness, how does attracting all of these deposits into the game help the overall economy? A simple answer will do.

All right, it was really off topic.

I try to explain my point of view now.

Befor Explo BP these crafting gamblers, did nothing different then they do today, but they had to pay MU for materials to click tons of L2 amps, that went directly into TT.

In this situation, the gamblers feed the miners who always claimed that they manage to always profit due to markups on the resources they mine. That days we had 140+ % on Caldo and Gazz (used by gamblers).

With the introduction of Explo BP, the MU adjusted to a level where we now can see the real demand that is needed to craft items used off by the comunity (real economy data, with gambling seperated TT input only).

What we can see is that there is nearly no demand for anything crafted except a few things like enhancers, finders, amps -- market for crafted weapons is artifically non existend (to many uL Sib gear available).

Same for crafted armors, only a very very small part of the crafted armors are sellable at all, its mainly TT food.

As gamblers now have the option to craft Explo from TT, there is no more need to craft the trash armors/weapons, what lowered the demand of mined and looted resources extremly.

Another side of the explo BP is the insane amount of metal res dropped from it, so this is nearly TT food, what has its pro and contra too.

Pro: Low MU on residue offers the option to craft L gear with low MU at full TT (f.e. high TT swords)
Contra: Component crafters that could survive on residue MU 108-110% in the past, no longer can survive on the residue, therefor really need to sell the products, while residue is mainly TT food.

Thats the direct visible impact of explo BP got on the ingame economy, lower MU for mined resources and residue.
Lower MU on mining amps, that leads to more use of amps in mining, what forces to lowering of MU on mined resources even more.

But:

The problem of the low demand is not the explo BP, the problem is that there is nearly no market for crafted items, what in fact isn´t caused by Explo BP. This is caused by the huge oversupply of uL Sib gear for all levels, so nobody is forced to buy any L gear. Even those who actually still use L gear, prefer the guns and armors dropped from hunting, over the crafted ones, as those looted ones mostly have way better eco than anything crafted. (I know there is a few exceptions).

And there is another glitch that killed a lot crafting, its the generic components that stopped dropping, so 50% or even more of the existing weapon BPs, simply can´t be crafted anymore due to missing resources (f.e. Aspis)

Actually I am not against Explo BP, I am still for it for reason of fairness.

What is meant by this (explained several times in other threads, here again).

Hunter owning UL gear, who don´t use L gear, play from TT only.
Miner using UL gear, who don´t use L gear, play from TT only.

Befor Explo crafters, never have had any option to play from TT only, Explo BP changed that (so fair enough imho).

The speed Explo 4 cycles PED and generates high loot events, is something we can discuss about.
No Hunter or Miner has the option to get a 20 PED based loot every 2 sec.

To change that we would need big ass gun shooting 20 PED of ammo in one shot, so we could one shot kill a dasp or drone elite. Don´t think that will happen.

For mining it would mean a finder that drops 20 PED of probes in one click, what I also think will not happen.

To be honest if such guns and finders would be introduced, it would be much worse impact the economy than the Explo 4 does, as it would generate even worse oversupply than we actually have.

To help the economy MA needs to make crafting anything else than explo attractive to crafters.

Will they do it?
Imho NO, because they make money from people that lose PED.
If there exist a lot options that drop fairly high MU on average (no matter if mining, hunting or crafting) players manage to break even on MU, what makes them non depositors. But MA needs people losing, that do deposit again and again.

Well its a two edged sword as hunting and mining is reduced to gambling as crafting already is. That will drive of the real players and leave only the gamblers in all proffessions. To be honest hunting Dasp, Mulmuns and whatever expencive to kill mob, is not less gambling than clicking explo, same for amped mining.

The attitude chase for the ATH is even worse than it was when I started years ago.
HoF or bust is it now, and thats exactly what all we players do when doing our main proffession.

We don´t stop, so why MA should change it ?
 
The way i see it is as follows:-

Positives

Cheap residue resulting in cheaper finished goods

Good income stream for MA due to more craft turnover from EP IV

Cheaper resources due to much lower demand when crafting other stuff (cheaper finished goods)


Negatives

No need for anything from gathering professions for EP prints.

Lower demand on resources tanking most mark ups hunted and mined (eg. miners on FOMA tt most of their finds now).

Unbalanced as seen in sheer number of hof's per day on EP III,IV.


Whether you see them as a bonus or boon depends on your situation really, and way you play. Gambler types love them, most miners curse them, etc etc.... If you do a quick search this was discussed to death on their release, look through those threads and match predictions with what proved to happen.

My personal opinion is that the economy was broken both before and after EP IV in regard to crafting, most stuff to craft there wasn't any demand before, and now none after. Goni pointed out other things that have caused economic slowdown (ul SIB weaps, UL upgrade faps, chips, armours... etc).
 
Last edited:
There are still serious crafters who keep doing their job. If they do less of it is because there is much less demand for crafted armors/weapons/tools nowadays, thanks to SIB UL rain.

IMO this is the real issue along with the volume of low TT, low decay L weapons dropping. As a weapons crafter, it's very difficult to compete with that. I craft to replace sales so if sales go down I buy less materials from hunters and minors which of course affects MU on their loot.
 
I try to explain my point of view now.

Befor Explo BP these crafting gamblers, did nothing different then they do today, but they had to pay MU for materials to click tons of L2 amps, that went directly into TT.

In this situation, the gamblers feed the miners who always claimed that they manage to always profit due to markups on the resources they mine. That days we had 140+ % on Caldo and Gazz (used by gamblers).

With the introduction of Explo BP, the MU adjusted to a level where we now can see the real demand that is needed to craft items used off by the comunity (real economy data, with gambling seperated TT input only).

What we can see is that there is nearly no demand for anything crafted except a few things like enhancers, finders, amps -- market for crafted weapons is artifically non existend (to many uL Sib gear available).

Same for crafted armors, only a very very small part of the crafted armors are sellable at all, its mainly TT food.

As gamblers now have the option to craft Explo from TT, there is no more need to craft the trash armors/weapons, what lowered the demand of mined and looted resources extremly.

Another side of the explo BP is the insane amount of metal res dropped from it, so this is nearly TT food, what has its pro and contra too.

Pro: Low MU on residue offers the option to craft L gear with low MU at full TT (f.e. high TT swords)
Contra: Component crafters that could survive on residue MU 108-110% in the past, no longer can survive on the residue, therefor really need to sell the products, while residue is mainly TT food.

Thats the direct visible impact of explo BP got on the ingame economy, lower MU for mined resources and residue.
Lower MU on mining amps, that leads to more use of amps in mining, what forces to lowering of MU on mined resources even more.

But:

The problem of the low demand is not the explo BP, the problem is that there is nearly no market for crafted items, what in fact isn´t caused by Explo BP. This is caused by the huge oversupply of uL Sib gear for all levels, so nobody is forced to buy any L gear. Even those who actually still use L gear, prefer the guns and armors dropped from hunting, over the crafted ones, as those looted ones mostly have way better eco than anything crafted. (I know there is a few exceptions).

And there is another glitch that killed a lot crafting, its the generic components that stopped dropping, so 50% or even more of the existing weapon BPs, simply can´t be crafted anymore due to missing resources (f.e. Aspis)

Actually I am not against Explo BP, I am still for it for reason of fairness.

What is meant by this (explained several times in other threads, here again).

Hunter owning UL gear, who don´t use L gear, play from TT only.
Miner using UL gear, who don´t use L gear, play from TT only.

Befor Explo crafters, never have had any option to play from TT only, Explo BP changed that (so fair enough imho).

The speed Explo 4 cycles PED and generates high loot events, is something we can discuss about.
No Hunter or Miner has the option to get a 20 PED based loot every 2 sec.

To change that we would need big ass gun shooting 20 PED of ammo in one shot, so we could one shot kill a dasp or drone elite. Don´t think that will happen.

For mining it would mean a finder that drops 20 PED of probes in one click, what I also think will not happen.

To be honest if such guns and finders would be introduced, it would be much worse impact the economy than the Explo 4 does, as it would generate even worse oversupply than we actually have.

To help the economy MA needs to make crafting anything else than explo attractive to crafters.

Will they do it?
Imho NO, because they make money from people that lose PED.
If there exist a lot options that drop fairly high MU on average (no matter if mining, hunting or crafting) players manage to break even on MU, what makes them non depositors. But MA needs people losing, that do deposit again and again.

Well its a two edged sword as hunting and mining is reduced to gambling as crafting already is. That will drive of the real players and leave only the gamblers in all proffessions. To be honest hunting Dasp, Mulmuns and whatever expencive to kill mob, is not less gambling than clicking explo, same for amped mining.

The attitude chase for the ATH is even worse than it was when I started years ago.
HoF or bust is it now, and thats exactly what all we players do when doing our main proffession.

We don´t stop, so why MA should change it ?

Thanks Goni. This is what I was looking for. Views on how the whole EP thing fits into the cycle of the game. Apologies if I have missed your points in other EP threads, but I find that they quickly degenerate into EP bashing and how it has killed the game, so I lose interest. :)
 
try clickin them on condition like all them big gamblers do, you will c they r most prob still in the - with them big hits, MA love ppl clickin them there here for ever lol its dynamic

I hit a 5 digit and was immediately in the +. However, my loots have been stunted for the last 14 months since then.
 
I hit a 5 digit and was immediately in the +. However, my loots have been stunted for the last 14 months since then.

Didn't we just talk about this last week? From what I understand loot this last year has been just fine and now here you say that it's not? Sorry but your 5 digit has not effected your loot at all. Welcome to how our loot is these days.
 
it's been discussed a lot of times already... and most of the highlights are already in this thread...

ep crafting is good because it:
allows crafters to play from tt, like the other professions (although some argue that it's too much on the higher end prints... the way to fix that would simply be to put more uber hunting and mining gear in the tt for the other professions... Mindark put in the low end starter stuff in TT, they just need to go the other way too balance it out a bit... although doing so may create less demand for crafted alternatives... put level limits and timers and stuff on what's available in tt to fix that)

gives folks wanting to skill up on explosive hunting a way to do it that did not previously exist (now if they'd just create a new line of ul and L crafted weapons for all skill levels in this profession... as it is on UL side you have ngl for low end, and uber gear for high end, but nothing in between)

ep crafting is good since it's getting folks that didn't 'daily' craft starting to do that...

residue markup is dropping. That's good for all of us in some ways since it allows the crafted L stuff that uses it to be a bit more affordable for all

Personally, it seems like most of the rant threads are about the markup on other professions dropping since the other professions aren't able to price gouge the hell out of crafters daily as they did in the past. That's a good thing for the economy on many levels... folks shouldn't have to pay markup just to be able to play a bit from time to time... the markup is still there on stuff but as mentioned the demand isn't there so it's all supply/demand issue as it was in the past... no demand for crafted junk when looted crap from non-crafting professions is cheaper and better... fix that (remove the 'items' from hunting and mining loots, etc., and replace them with stackables while also creating better stats on the stuff that is craftable that uses those stacks as ingredients) and the economy will be fixed.

IMHO, Mindark should have the balancing team make it so that any item that has Hit Ability of 10/10 should be craftable only... make the stuff that lootable in other professions that area already in game max out at level 100 like the old school stuff... the problem with L, sib, etc. is that it's 'too great' since it made demand for crafting go way down... solution would be to make the old school stats go on the non-crafted stuff already in game and just put the sib stuff on the craftable... do similar tweaks on armor, etc. to give the crafted alternatives a bit more demand vs the non-crafted alternatives. More and more buffs are in game... adjust things to make it so crafting is where the buffs are coming from more... and/or tweak it so that better stats, etc. are achievable via using crafted stuff...
 
Last edited:
Personally, it seems like most of the rant threads are about the markup on other professions dropping since the other professions aren't able to price gouge the hell out of crafters daily as they did in the past. That's a good thing for the economy on many levels... folks shouldn't have to pay markup just to be able to play a bit from time to time... the markup is still there on stuff but as mentioned the demand isn't there so it's all supply/demand issue as it was in the past... no demand for crafted junk when looted crap from non-crafting professions is cheaper and better... fix that (remove the 'items' from hunting and mining loots, etc., and replace them with stackables while also creating better stats on the stuff that is craftable that uses those stacks as ingredients) and the economy will be fixed.

Congrats. If anyone from MA reads this. The bolded part is all they will see and will take even more steps to crush MU.

Without MU, ENtropia becomes an extremely expensive game with absolutely shitty game mechanics. Why pay $500 US per month to hunt when there are other, BETTER First Person RPG Shooters out there for far less per month if not just an outright one time fee?

Mining and crafting are absolutely pointless without MU. How long would you play a game that was mining and/or crafting that had no MU and no chance of withdrawing some or all of your investment? Would you shell out more than $15 per month for it? Would you pay a car payment per month for it?

Is it price gouging to ask 110% for 100 ped TT worth of stuff that took 10k PED cycling just to stack 100 ped worth of it to sell? All of that cycling also includes Decay which is one thing that crafting is not plagued by. Infact, unlike hunting/mining gear, the more you use a BP, the more valuable it becomes. The polar opposite of decay.

SO yeah, crafters should have to pay markup too. Without MU there is no point to this game. MU is the only thing MA has to refute claims that this is nothing more than an online casino and MA would do well to remember that.
 
Congrats. If anyone from MA reads this. The bolded part is all they will see and will take even more steps to crush MU.

Without MU, ENtropia becomes an extremely expensive game with absolutely shitty game mechanics. Why pay $500 US per month to hunt when there are other, BETTER First Person RPG Shooters out there for far less per month if not just an outright one time fee?

Mining and crafting are absolutely pointless without MU. How long would you play a game that was mining and/or crafting that had no MU and no chance of withdrawing some or all of your investment? Would you shell out more than $15 per month for it? Would you pay a car payment per month for it?

Is it price gouging to ask 110% for 100 ped TT worth of stuff that took 10k PED cycling just to stack 100 ped worth of it to sell? All of that cycling also includes Decay which is one thing that crafting is not plagued by. Infact, unlike hunting/mining gear, the more you use a BP, the more valuable it becomes. The polar opposite of decay.

SO yeah, crafters should have to pay markup too. Without MU there is no point to this game. MU is the only thing MA has to refute claims that this is nothing more than an online casino and MA would do well to remember that.

Good points +rep

Also want to add that miners have to deal with drilling costs, refiner costs, etc that are in no way paid back in loot. Hunters have to deal with armor/healing costs... etc. So crafters moaning about wanting situational "equality" is laughable.

Though I do feel the pain of crafters. It's such a dead profession atm. Without a massive bankroll and/or niche you are doomed to fail. This is MA's fault for the most part.

EP I-III are fine with me, EP IV needs to go. Unless MA is going to take other steps to stimulate the economy, which doesn't seem likely.
 
Last edited:
...
To change that we would need big ass gun shooting 20 PED of ammo in one shot, so we could one shot kill a dasp or drone elite. Don´t think that will happen.

I wouldn't put it past them, it that would almost certainly come with new mobs with an even higher HP and an even higher risk factor. It would impact the loot pool even more as the ath's, hofs, the few stackables with MU and new items would almost certainly end up in those mobs to encourage hunting them, all of which we've seen before several times and welcomed with open arms by many.

However we didn't get that this time and instead we got the EP which for me is just another sign that MA has ran out of ideas regarding the existing profession structure and are now using any means necessary to get income. How many opened thousands of strong boxes in the hope of getting a rare UL unique ring only to find that soon after one was found a new UL unique ring was added.

The EP is just another step in the long line of things they screwed up the economy with when they botched the L sib introduction.
 
Last edited:
I've honestly given up on expecting MA to do the rational thing 99% of the time. But every now and then we get some surprises. That being said, my goals are different than MA's. I want huge overheads with good profit margins (110% lvl 5 amps and 118%+ avg. resource markup). MA wants low overhead, lower cost to play and in turn lower potential for withdrawals.

Explo bps reduced the value of residue to nothing. and most amps/crafted items plummeted in markup, as well as the resources found hunting/mining. Effectively they reduced the markup input and also reduced the markup output. Which means a more balanced game.

This means less potential for massive losses and also less potential for massive gains (in markup terms of course).

This didn't affect TT returns, but it definitely made the dollar go further, just not when it came time to try and sell your "used to be 115%" resources in massive stacks for 103%.

playing smarter got harder while playing recklessly got easier.


I'm still holding out for a massive crafting/resource overhaul that actually makes crafting tools and weapons efficient and worthwhile
 
If MA take more money from EP clickers hopefully they wont need to take as much from the rest of us ;)
 
.....
But:

The problem of the low demand is not the explo BP, the problem is that there is nearly no market for crafted items, what in fact isn´t caused by Explo BP. This is caused by the huge oversupply of uL Sib gear for all levels, so nobody is forced to buy any L gear. Even those who actually still use L gear, prefer the guns and armors dropped from hunting, over the crafted ones, as those looted ones mostly have way better eco than anything crafted. (I know there is a few exceptions).

......

Yes this + rep :wise:

They just need to buff the crafted guns (or nerv the looted ones) and the demand will increase. The interation between crafters / hunters and miners is everything what a good game-eco needs.

:)
 
Back
Top