What do you think actual search area is for a mining finder?

Cool_Fire

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Our finders have different search range depending on indoor/outdoor mining and varying depth depending on skill and particular finder you are using but in general I always figured the search area was cylindrical in shape:

X


If the area is cylindrical in shape then you would think any claim in the area would be found and you would not get another hit inside this area at the same average search depth until area regenerates.

But then I thought what if it is cone shape search pattern:

X

If the search pattern is cone shaped then chances of additional claims on second or third drops would be greater because any increase in depth also increases the area of the search.

I also wonder how the terrain we are on affects the area of our search. For example, do I search more area if I drop at a low point in the terrain than if I drop at a high point?

* I spent a bit of time drawing examples but somehow they will not line up correctly when I preview the post :scratch2:
It looks good in the part of the screen I can edit but not in the post itself, so I deleted the artwork :laugh:



So what are your thoughts on the shape of the search area?
Also if we are on top of a mountain, side of a mountain or bottom of a hole does the system give us an average search area no matter the terrain, or do we loose a large portion of the search area on bad terrain because it is 'searching' air?

thanks for reading and interested to see your thoughts

Cool Fire
 
So what are your thoughts on the shape of the search area?
Also if we are on top of a mountain, side of a mountain or bottom of a hole does the system give us an average search area no matter the terrain, or do we loose a large portion of the search area on bad terrain because it is 'searching' air?

I have mined along the server border, and you never get a claim on the other side. Never.

On the other hand, the return isn't half of normal even though the search area is obviously just over half of the normal.

The same goes for mining along the edge of water - your search area is smaller than it should be, yet you don't go broke.
 
I have mined along the server border, and you never get a claim on the other side. Never.

On the other hand, the return isn't half of normal even though the search area is obviously just over half of the normal.

The same goes for mining along the edge of water - your search area is smaller than it should be, yet you don't go broke.

That's because claims aren't "pre-generated" in nodes as some people think.. They available TT of each resources is maintained in each server and seems to be refreshed every 1.5 hours in my experience.

I've tested this with a certain ignisium spot on another planet and it only has room for maybe 20-25 drops, but there's only about 45-50TT of it available to be mined every 1.5hours. If i try to get beyond that amount i just hit lyst.

It's very lucrative if I time it right.


Edit:
Basically i mine with 3 general rules: 1) avoid overlapping, 2) keep dropping even if the hit rate sucks, and lastly 3) if you're not hitting the resource you're after go somewhere else and come back in an hour.
 
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That's because claims aren't "pre-generated" in nodes as some people think.. They available TT of each resources is maintained in each server and seems to be refreshed every 1.5 hours in my experience.

I've tested this with a certain ignisium spot on another planet and it only has room for maybe 20-25 drops, but there's only about 45-50TT of it available to be mined every 1.5hours. If i try to get beyond that amount i just hit lyst.

It's very lucrative if I time it right.

It's not so cut and dry, you can as well get lyst-igni-lyst-igni sequence there. Also, everyone and his rabbit know of T***'**'*h, so there's nearly zero chance no one else mined there for 1.5 hours.

Anyway, what's relevant to the OP's question is that you don't get abnormally low tt returns mining small islands. :)
 
So what are your thoughts on the shape of the search area?

Here's another fact before I equip my tinfoil hat and get to thoughts:

On Cyrene, there are two huge spheres floating in the sky (north-west part of the planet, half-way between Miner Isles and Ngu Volcano). Those are supposed to be the homes of Tanhok nobles and yada-yada, but there are some pieces of floating terrain left inside them; if you drop below those spheres, you can get a claim mile high in the sky (well, not exactly a mile, just above 1000 m). Those cannot be summoned (obviously z coordinate counts when calculating summoning distance), and you cannot fly up to them. (I've heard of people being compensated by support but there's mostly iridium/crude in that area, and you can get that without hassle elsewhere)
 
I've hit claims that don't show up on my radar (eg: a claim at the bottom of a mountain while I was standing at the top). So altitude does not affect your chance to hit something in any way. Also, despite the claim being so far away, I was still able to summon it using the claim deed.

OP, my advice is don't think so much. Drop probes, chase markup, that's really all there is to it.

There are no great mysteries to mining (imo).. Just cycle hard and fast. Your superstitions will dissolve and patterns and loot mechanics will become clear.
 
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it is a circle... that has been proven a lot of times...

thanks for response, could you elaborate a bit?
a circle I can see, but circle all the way down to max depth has been proven many times?

I cant figure out a way to test that and just wonder if anyone has been able to find something that indicates it is a cylindrical search area.
 
I have mined along the server border, and you never get a claim on the other side. Never.

On the other hand, the return isn't half of normal even though the search area is obviously just over half of the normal.

The same goes for mining along the edge of water - your search area is smaller than it should be, yet you don't go broke.

Good points, so I wonder if this along with the other post about sky high claims indicates that the finder searches in a cylindrical pattern above and below your position.

Also in the case of server border does the system 'see' the out of bounds finds and just move them in bounds?
thanks for responses :)
 
I cant figure out a way to test that and just wonder if anyone has been able to find something that indicates it is a cylindrical search area.

Simple, mine using the "run, stop, drop, wait" method.

Within a single run you'll see whether you are hitting deep claims far to the edge of your search radius.
 
I vote for cylindrical search area.

When I first started as a noob miner I often mined along the edge of sheer cliffs, for whatever reason I found I had better hitrate under these conditions.

Along the edge of cliffs I would find claims that were (of course) within the finder's search radius horizontally, but more importantly they were far above/below the search radius vertically.

Also I have mined a ton along the shoreline of lakes/rivers, usually with the water only 1m away on one side. The hitrate is the same, despite the search area essentially being cut in half.
 
There probably is no actual search area, they simply check that you aren't dropping bombs in the same place over and over.
 
Like I said... finders ignore altitude/Z axis or whatever.

Calling it a cylindrical search radius is just unnecessarily complicated and misleading.

The X/Y Coordinates will not be outside of your finder's stated range. The Z coordinate is irrelevant.
 
Have to agree. Z coordinates are irrelevant because Mindark can't figure out how to make the algorithms take them in to consideration as the algorithms are likely based on pre-vu 10 type math, which although was 3d, was much more of a 2d type of map than what we have now (or at least are able to travel in now since back then you didn't have vtols, etc.)

If you read loot theory threads much, I suspect that the x, y coords also are linked in to the other professions' loot theories too a bit, at least by some theorists... (never could quite work out how that worked with crafting since you are standing still, but I guess if you hop around from tp to tp to find the different terminals at the 'right time, right place' it might be possible?!?...
 
I read some interesting ideas here. I had the impression that my finder range is a spherical as suppose to be :scratch2:
Now I read here that Z axis doesn't count in the algorithm. Well... is the depth in Z axis or what? I misunderstood something here?
As about near edges or rivers or water. That was a theory that follow me from Arkadia, since there I made my first steps in mining, but on other planets you will learn very soon, that habit of dropping near water it will hurt your wallet.
I remember I had an old soc buddy who thought dropping near trees was a great trick to get claims lol
Also when I started I had the crazy idea of looking for strange patterns on the ground!!! All these are supersticious nonsence :laugh:
 
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It's a circle. Depth makes really little difference. If it was a sphere the radius would have to be more than it currently is, same for cylinder.

As for actually predicting locations of deposits, do it like everyone else does, roll the dice !!
 
... (never could quite work out how that worked with crafting since you are standing still, but I guess if you hop around from tp to tp to find the different terminals at the 'right time, right place' it might be possible?!?...

That was mentioned once upon time (Marco: if you craft on right machine..) but community never figured out what it mean ( maybe right server, maybe different machines for tools, components, weapons, tailoring ect in that time Hadesheim had different crafting spots for crafting components, tools, weapons...) anyway today we have universal crafting machines / terminals.

*it can be just a story because Marco announced weapon duplicator in time first tiering system was to be introduced too...
 
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Search area is a circle, claims spawn and persist on the map for a while then despawn, and claims have no Z coordinate until you use a finder to locate them. They also don't have a mineral identity until you find them, because that is based on your search depth. So, it's not a cylinder or a cone but a flat circle.
 
Search area is a circle, claims spawn and persist on the map for a while then despawn, and claims have no Z coordinate until you use a finder to locate them. They also don't have a mineral identity until you find them, because that is based on your search depth. So, it's not a cylinder or a cone but a flat circle.

I would disagree with the type. When a deposit is found it would have to roll the value first then the type. You cannot find a 0.01 ped rock of ingi.
 
Good points, so I wonder if this along with the other post about sky high claims indicates that the finder searches in a cylindrical pattern above and below your position.

Also in the case of server border does the system 'see' the out of bounds finds and just move them in bounds?
thanks for responses :)

I'm with the 'flat circle' crowd.

Apart from that, I believe there are more 'invisible mobs' out there than there seem to be (probably at least 4...5 within search range most of the time) but the system takes care of capping your hit rate.
 
Y'all are funny.

To me a cylinder and a "circle with a variable Z axis" are the same thing. Although I think when trying to visualize it on paper or in your mind, calling it a cylinder is more accurate, since a circle is a 2D shape and Entropia is a 3D environment. But I guess you are free to call it what you want. Either way you have answered the OP's question. :D
 
Y'all are funny.

To me a cylinder and a "circle with a variable Z axis" are the same thing.

Except we're not debating grade school geometry. We're talking about the search area/search radius of a mining finder. The Z axis is not in play, so calling it a "cylindrical" search area is wrong.
 
Like I said... finders ignore altitude/Z axis or whatever.

Calling it a cylindrical search radius is just unnecessarily complicated and misleading.

The X/Y Coordinates will not be outside of your finder's stated range. The Z coordinate is irrelevant.

By using the word cylinder and avoiding the use of the word radius, instead using the word area, I was trying to take into account the various finders that search at different depths. Thus any finder could hit a claim from on the surface up or down to the maximum depth of that finder.
IF this were true then the search area would be cylindrical in nature, and could extend equal distance above and below the avatar location at time of drop. You would find a claim in that area based on the 'roll of the dice' for that drop.

However, as you state, and Neil also:

Search area is a circle, claims spawn and persist on the map for a while then despawn, and claims have no Z coordinate until you use a finder to locate them. They also don't have a mineral identity until you find them, because that is based on your search depth. So, it's not a cylinder or a cone but a flat circle.

Am I to understand that a finder will search at an average search depth that can be variable for that finder within its parameters and therefore the search area is indeed a FLAT circle 'generated' for each individual drop at the random search depth for that drop? You will only find a claim if there is one at the depth or height for that drop?

IF this were true then that would explain why you can sometimes find multiple claims in one spot but I would assume at somewhat varying depths?
 
It cannot be 100% proven, but I see it as being completely abstract. That is, I think the radius comes into play only when calculating overlap. Other than that a "search" area would presume "finding" something, while the mining tools generate the claims. Given we have various range finders (and enhancers), I would think range is akin to dpp from hunting, e.g. number of drops needed to cover a field, compared to number of shots needed to kill/regenerate a spawn.

Z-coordinate of deposit is strictly used to generate the type of resource find, in a roll counting finder, skills, amp maybe and economy balance probably. Having an in-game 3D relevance would mean a probe dropped on the bottom of a small ravine couldn't generate 10m depth claim which is actually above you (both the claim and the actual probable position of the deposit).

That being said, for practical reasons I consider the finder search area a square :)) Just because I don't wanna screw my mind with trying to cover every possible inch :))
 
well entropia might be a 3d game but im like very sure that only 2d is used here. depth is only a number that is used to check in a table which ressource you may find with which possibility. thats all... there is no 3d modell of the ground in which the ressources are like in minecraft or similar. position check finder depth check and area last checked time and then possible ressource generation... that are the 4 steps imo.
 
well someone test it about this 2d, 3d whatever resource thing :).... use like z1 finder and then in same spot drop a bomb with vrx2k for example.....
 
Good to know that you cannot get claim on other side of server border. I am occasional miner so this thread informative thanks :)













#space_flight ~ connecting pilots with players traveling through space to other worlds
 
Am I to understand that a finder will search at an average search depth that can be variable for that finder within its parameters and therefore the search area is indeed a FLAT circle 'generated' for each individual drop at the random search depth for that drop? You will only find a claim if there is one at the depth or height for that drop?

IF this were true then that would explain why you can sometimes find multiple claims in one spot but I would assume at somewhat varying depths?

No, it's not a 2D circle at a particular depth, it's a 2D circle with NO depth. Depth (and type, and size) is only assigned to the claim after using the finder. You can often find multiple claims in one circle because there were multiple claims sitting in that 2D circle (or because a second one spawned after you claimed the first).
 
well someone test it about this 2d, 3d whatever resource thing :).... use like z1 finder and then in same spot drop a bomb with vrx2k for example.....

It's already been done and no you don't find "extra" claims at other depths.
 
I just wrote a mining system for a game. If you click the finder, it search around the radius like a sphaere.
But, it don,'t really search! In the moment you click search, the algorythm find out you get a claim or not. Then the next step is, if you get a claim, the algorythm generate what you have find, and how much amount of it.
Once this is calculated, it just randomly get a place in the range of the finder. Then it place a claim there. The claim holds all data with the ores you find, generated by algorythm, in the moment of clicking finder search.

Now, if you find a claim, it generate a invisible sphaere at this, place. This sphaere block to find more claims, aslong the sphaere not disapear. The sphaere is connected with a timer and disapear after a randomly time. So you just can not find anything at this place.

I don't know, how it work in EU, but i can think, that there is not a big difference to the system i described above.
 
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