Right now, Entropias economy is at its lowest..

yeah they are still there on hunting, up to 10k x multiplier eventually... but mining got fucked hard with not really more than 3k per unamped ore drop... and that is far too boring imo. and i was a 100% miner before 2011 :/ good ol times :/

Unamped ore I don't think anything over 1500 PED is possible anymore ;)

Unless you're indoors, then towers are possible
 
I feel that most participants would be willing to deposit eventually but there is simply not enough fun professions to engage them until they reach that point. At the moment my sense from listening in on Rookie chat is that within a few hours/days the "insert credit card to continue" point is reached whereas in reality this point might be more comfortably reached 6-12 months down the road. For one thing some people are naturally wary about putting there card details into something they have probably only just heard about and rightly so. Younger participants (who will eventually become older participants) might also not be in a position to deposit straight away and must be retained until either they become old enough to get a card or have been ingame long enough to convince their parents to use theirs...

I've been in MMOs before EU that had at least 10 non-member (free to play) professions and then 10+ members only professions. One could enjoy the game for a good year or more and at which point having invested a lot of time into the account would feel comfortable paying in order to progress to the mid and higher stages rather that quiting. The difference being that the player feels like they have made a free choice, in their own time, rather than being forced as with EU. The free to play players still made up a large part of the community and provided valuable services to the members and the overall enjoyment for everyone.

I could quite easily imagine a handful of "zero sum" professions being introduced for new players that return only as much as they cost (or a return comparable to the current sweat value) and are fun and engaging to do, providing some skills as well. I hope this is where MA is going with the harvesting profession if this ever takes off.

My point being is to grow the community and therefore the economy there needs to be engaging activities for everyone on any budget and there needs to be more activities which sit outside the current pot luck loot pool genre. People will deposit when they are good and ready to engage in the more expensive loot pool activities but in the meantime they should be able to enjoy the universe and have a lot of fun at very little cost but also very little return.

There has been so much stuff over the years for new players to get a taste of the game and see if like it. Free vehicles, faps, guns etc.and with reintroducing of pets the price of fruit has gone up. Now MA are paying streamers to advertise the game and ND is doing some sort of thing with low level players to promote the game. At the end of the day all this free stuff comes out of someone's pocket either MA, PP or a player.

Now new players face the same problem most people face in game and that's selling their stuff to make their money last a little longer, but like atomic said they are their worst enemy. Recently on RT the gear plummeted due to people farming vixen with explosives and selling gears for less and less for quick sale.
 
There has been so much stuff over the years for new players to get a taste of the game and see if like it. Free vehicles, faps, guns etc.and with reintroducing of pets the price of fruit has gone up. Now MA are paying streamers to advertise the game and ND is doing some sort of thing with low level players to promote the game. At the end of the day all this free stuff comes out of someone's pocket either MA, PP or a player.

Now new players face the same problem most people face in game and that's selling their stuff to make their money last a little longer, but like atomic said they are their worst enemy. Recently on RT the gear plummeted due to people farming vixen with explosives and selling gears for less and less for quick sale.

I don't think he said free stuff, he said free activities...fun things players can do for free, like the platformers on Cyrene.
 
Once you see what the game started out as. And what it has become. You understand why it's failing.

playerdriven economy? Nah.
 
A fun free activity I used to do with socmates:
Fall from very high competing with others for best "splatt" when you hit the ground. :laugh:

One of many free activities. Parties come to mind also. I was busy having loads of fun when I was a poor noob. Also did grinding things like gathering free stuff laying around on ground and sweating.

For all the many free fun things I did which was great and wonderful a really big draw of this game is the challenge. Can I earn my way? Will I succeed? There is much interesting to occupy oneself until one decides "Is now the time I want to invest?"

A lucky few have managed to make success and profit with no depositing at all. Most of us will need at some point to invest who want to make a business of it. There are also those among us who after doing fun free stuff for however long it takes for us to get comfy end up depositing just to have fun after a hard days work. Others of us cycle through all of these styles of play.










[#space_flight] ~ where pilots and players find each other to travel through space to other worlds.
 
well for me the biggest thrill was that you could hit a 200k hof on mining without amps (as they were not introduced yet)

Biggest hof before introduction of mining amps was 5k.
 
I personally preferred the more volatile loot system.. Sure you probably weren't going to hit 90% TT on 500 or even 1000 ped runs... But the idea that you could 10k hof unamped or on Argo young was awesome. It kept me grinding and pumping in peds.

And eventually it all worked back around to a decent return. I'd rather have 90% return on 25k cycled with a 5k hof than 90% return on 25k cycled with a 1k hof.

But everyone is different. But as this post spins out of control from the original subject I'll just say this: we need a crafting overhaul with an assload of new bps.. Shouldn't be too hard for MA to make.
 
But as this post spins out of control from the original subject I'll just say this: we need a crafting overhaul with an assload of new bps.. Shouldn't be too hard for MA to make.

I don't know what bps do they make? the game is already flooded with L and ul weapons and armour. I might be wrong, but after explosives you got mining amps and finders as there no other way of getting them. What ever MA do they will piss someone off.
 
then pls explain the aths from around 2006...
i got myself a 7.2k igni tower unamped planetside when the first amps (oa and ma) where around

I stand corrected, the amps were introduce with vu 8.1 on 1st february 2006, while the meteor shower, change to mining system and corresponding ATHs started somewhere in october 2005.
 
eco goal:
material flow improvement = crafted tools and guns with better eco quality than the looted counterparts --> increases demand, while looted tools and guns will sold to tt more often --> raises the price of looted material --> more social interaction ingame --> motivation --> :beerchug:

atm the only connection is between miners and crafters (amps, finders) but miners deliver way more stuff than they consume after the crafting process, so the MU (ores, enmaters) is drowning. it dosen't matter for miners at all because on one side the amps and finders are cheaper otherwise better MU for loot.

short: you can not raise the return on your cycles in general but MA need to speed up the materialflow for their own good.

my :twocents: (bad english weil deutschsprachig :))
 
I personally preferred the more volatile loot system.. Sure you probably weren't going to hit 90% TT on 500 or even 1000 ped runs... But the idea that you could 10k hof unamped or on Argo young was awesome. It kept me grinding and pumping in peds.

And eventually it all worked back around to a decent return. I'd rather have 90% return on 25k cycled with a 5k hof than 90% return on 25k cycled with a 1k hof.

But everyone is different. But as this post spins out of control from the original subject I'll just say this: we need a crafting overhaul with an assload of new bps.. Shouldn't be too hard for MA to make.

100% agree. the game was fun and entertaining then... now its like work...
 
I don't know what bps do they make? the game is already flooded with L and ul weapons and armour. I might be wrong, but after explosives you got mining amps and finders as there no other way of getting them. What ever MA do they will piss someone off.

This is where creativity and *gasp* "development" comes in to play.

Create NEW items that people will want to actually use! It's really not that hard. Takes time and effort but it's far from an impossible task.
 
They would need to remove L stuff and replace with control components to craft said items.

No more LC60. You need some component like Laser Trigger Pin or something and that is used to craft them and to be honest, probably should remove ul weapons from loot pool too. Ul weapons are an extremely rare sooto from crafting that item and I do mean extremely rare. So.. while making an lc60 (l), you make an lc60 UL by chance. But that would be as rare or rarer than finding one in hunting loot now (disregard the fact it doesn't exist).
 
I personally think it would be a very bad idea to give complete control to one group of both the purchasing from and sales to every other group.

If I, as a hunter or miner, am selling my loot to the same crafters who are selling me tools, how would I ever make any profit (even with the best tools and skills) unless I made that profit from MA.

You effectively kill the idea of profitability for all but one profession... what profession are you going to choose to invest in?
 
I personally think it would be a very bad idea to give complete control to one group of both the purchasing from and sales to every other group.

If I, as a hunter or miner, am selling my loot to the same crafters who are selling me tools, how would I ever make any profit (even with the best tools and skills) unless I made that profit from MA.

You effectively kill the idea of profitability for all but one profession... what profession are you going to choose to invest in?

Because you can set the price for the materials you sell to crafters? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Everyone is going to price loot at a rate that is profitable. Crafters aren't the only consumers materials.. Tiering, end crafting, and more consumes mats.

But it might lead to markup inflations. But high markup input on a mass scale would equal high markup output provided the markup input is from crafted materials.
 
This is where creativity and *gasp* "development" comes in to play.

Create NEW items that people will want to actually use! It's really not that hard. Takes time and effort but it's far from an impossible task.

They did with quads, instance keys, portable devices etc. No it's not impossible, but what new stuff they bring into game will have effect on old stuff and also how will it effect other planets too.
 
If situation continue like this, all hunters and miners have to buy some crafters skills and all players will work in the new "Explosive Projectiles" Casino that MA is promoting. Yep, in the slot machine of grandma.... :D:yup:
 
If situation continue like this, all hunters and miners have to buy some crafters skills and all players will work in the new "Explosive Projectiles" Casino that MA is promoting. Yep, in the slot machine of grandma.... :D:yup:

Well, I don't know about YOU.. but I'm not playing slots in my grandma....
 
If situation continue like this, all hunters and miners have to buy some crafters skills and all players will work in the new "Explosive Projectiles" Casino that MA is promoting. Yep, in the slot machine of grandma.... :D:yup:

Ma promoting explosives or crafters?
So far their promotion didn't hit me.I never clicked it.
 
Ma promoting explosives or crafters?
So far their promotion didn't hit me.I never clicked it.

They're promoting turnover. Everyone think they're "due" for some big hof... So they click EP.

Personally I haven't clicked them either... But EP BPs weren't marketed towards players like myself.
 
One of the main problem is balacing the game for new players. If Mind Ark makes Entropia more eco/profitable friendly for new players. I am pretty sure all the Ubers come and hunt punies all day long leaving none for the new players. Which is why I think, the put a lock on the new players arrival Thule... only mentors can go in. Mind Ark is up to something. But takes time.
 
If situation continue like this, all hunters and miners have to buy some crafters skills and all players will work in the new "Explosive Projectiles" Casino that MA is promoting. Yep, in the slot machine of grandma.... :D:yup:

Well no, I'll just leave. If I wanted simple slot machine gambling with set stakes, I'll just go to one of the many online or physical casinos in the UK; they also have the added benefit of declared odds rather than some pseudo "success chance".

EP crafting in my opinion is targeted at US gamers who only other options for gambling are physical casinos miles away from their houses, or illegal books. The United States is identified in MA's latest financial report as their largest single market (and therefore logically would get the most thought when designing systems).

But, for the majority of the game, EP crafting is positive. It feeds MA a positive, continuous fund stream and reduces "fake" markup. The game is not meant to work on >111% markups for the vast majority of people (excluding 1-off sale items) - otherwise it turns into a deposit pyramid scheme which erodes quickest at its base.
 
Which means this game has winners and losers.

And it seems the amount of losers are increasing.

Well that's very loose statement.

"It seems" to who? You? The majority? Any backing with stats or figures? Or are you just scaremongering?

I do struggle sometimes to grasp what people expect in Entropia. Some kind of utopia where money flows from MA to participants, everyone can live off the game without creating anything.

It's an entertainment product which you pay for; the rate you pay depends on the activities you choose to pursue.
 
Those who can, profit. Those who can't, whine.
Which means this game has winners and losers.

And it seems the amount of losers are increasing.
Wrong, there are many ways to play this 'game'.
If you're here to profit by hunting, you probably shouldn't play this game at all.

For the majority here, Entropia is a game. Entertainment. It's ok to pay for your entertainment, isn't it?
If you go into a bar and buy a drink, are you a loser?
If you go watch a movie, does that make you a loser?
 
Wrong, there are many ways to play this 'game'.
If you're here to profit by hunting, you probably shouldn't play this game at all.

For the majority here, Entropia is a game. Entertainment. It's ok to pay for your entertainment, isn't it?
If you go into a bar and buy a drink, are you a loser?
If you go watch a movie, does that make you a loser?

Very valid point, but my meaning was more in how the game decides the winners and losers.

We all have to pay the bills to keep this game running and it seems the playerbase depositers is shrinking.
Also it seems more people are withdrawing.. maybe due to the economic crisis.

And buying a drink at a bar actually gets you a drink, here you would get a empty glass with a note "Nova Fragments" on it.

It will be interesting to see how this game will fare through the ongoing worlds economic crisis.
 
I've never had a problem with paying to play, but it's a two way street. I paid £100 last month and had a quite a good run on LT's, I would've liked a month, but hey ho.

I paid £100 this month and within a few hours lost total confidence to continue hunting, and switched to training pets. I doubt I will return to hunting until well into Sept. My ped needs to last to pay my pet food, so in other words I get guaranteed online time budgeting to train pets. But in reality that's boring entertainment for £100.

The issue for me is peds for cash
. £100 is a lot to me, yet it only buys around 1250 ped, and to be fair that is just not enough peds if MA has you allocated to a big hole.

I don't know how MA get around this, deposit hof would work. But what if people farmed deposit hofs. More ped per $ would suit me. The game has changed to 10 years ago not to mention the exchange rates, big HP mobs are now the norm.

Confidence is key here. I don't want to hear the hunt to your budget argument, that's just b*llocks £100 is not £20.

Still EU is what it is, I've been here long enough and still pay them.....like I say we need more peds for the value of deposits.....which is my message here. Anyway; "whatever", good luck out there.

Rick
 
Very valid point, but my meaning was more in how the game decides the winners and losers.

We all have to pay the bills to keep this game running and it seems the playerbase depositers is shrinking.
Also it seems more people are withdrawing.. maybe due to the economic crisis.

And buying a drink at a bar actually gets you a drink, here you would get a empty glass with a note "Nova Fragments" on it.

It will be interesting to see how this game will fare through the ongoing worlds economic crisis.

You do realize though that this game went gold thirteen years ago, right? It survived very good during the 2008 crisis, actually it boomed then. Also the playerbase is constantly growing. I wasn't very active last two years, but the size is overwhelming compared to, say, 5 years ago.
 
You do realize though that this game went gold thirteen years ago, right? It survived very good during the 2008 crisis, actually it boomed then. Also the playerbase is constantly growing. I wasn't very active last two years, but the size is overwhelming compared to, say, 5 years ago.

There does appear to be a new growing population. I train my pets pacing up and down Ithaca, and see a constant stream of new players running into town logging the TP.

Even more interesting is the number of level 30ish players I spot around the game now, those are the players that generally stay and push on to level 40+. I was watching a EU twitch streamer last night (Raven), and I was surprised with the confidence of the mid 30 players....even if they thought they were uber (which made me smile).

Maybe the game has turned a corner. I don't think it's anywhere near as busy though as 10 years ago, that was a different game. The days when hunting littler berys got you a screen of shogun armour, and 200 ped plus globals on little argos and drone 1's.

Rick
 
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