Risk of Ruin - Bankroll Management

atomicstorm said:

Yes. To Rick's quote, there will always be high impact events in low downswings.. law of large numbers dictates that over the long term values will converge to their mean. How long that takes is actually in an infinite timeline (not helpful i know). If you are under the mean, it'll be adjusted. For it not to follow the LAW, leads to conspiracies and mindark (a bank) will not be allowed to do that.

You won't be able to beat my system with the OP, this gives you a chance for your markup and other fruits to catch up to your losses.

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One other point. Tt returns are logrithmic. In all the data I've collected, this has never been the case. I will end up showing that later this evening when I post my journey data.

atomicstorm said:

For 50 bucks a month.. your options are few.. mostly focus should be around building bankroll. Sweat, shoot halix or something, small mining, buying auds with small profits... maybe every 12 halix tails = you buy 1 aud. That is if you want the peds to last. Otherwise, youll be depositing and grinding until you get an equalizer

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Just, this game is skillbased (or buffbased lol) so its not a strict moneymanagement/gambling thingy. I agree that its good to have a buffer to try and sell on peakpoints but allso there isnt that big spikes in returns if youre doing what youre doing correct.

At 50 bucks per month its very doable to hunt feffoids or argonauts and bristleback (edit, bristlehog I meant ofc....bristleback is a hero in dota) etc, theres many viable L weapons and even more new such during the last year or two. I have a few friends that has started from 0 recently and they run on a very limited budget and has Went from 0 to level 40 or higher with just a few k peds to start with.

Its not like its all about having a huge pedcard, its about doing it right and in this game its hard to find the Place that works out at your level and your own gear.

So as a reply to the 50 per month question I would look for simple MU like the thyro oils was recently on feffos (113%) now its lower. Scan the market for what you can hunt at your level and not having to waste tons in defencecosts. Bristlebacks had great MU from the boardstuff thats used for housing (the still drop and still have great MU) and try to find the places/spots that can make you sustain your skilling and have fun.

Its not only endgame thats amusing or entertaining, Im actually looking alot over my shoulder and have talks with the beginners, longing back to that grinding of small stuff and trying to find a way up without blowing a huge hole in my irl pedcard

Bottomline is that if youre doing it right its not so costly this game, if you invest time enough and dedication it might not even have to cost you anything. Neither is a huge pedcard needed.

krogfan said:

So as a reply to the 50 per month question I would look for simple MU like the thyro oils was recently on feffos (113%) now its lower. Scan the market for what you can hunt at your level and not having to waste tons in defencecosts. Bristlebacks had great MU from the boardstuff thats used for housing (the still drop and still have great MU) and try to find the places/spots that can make you sustain your skilling and have fun.

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The thyroid drops on feffoid and corn were bugged/or reduced heavily which caused the mark up on it to rise. I tried feff/corn/ambu and a variety of thyroid/adrenal mobs at the time of the spike in mark up but it wasn't driven by demand but by heavily reduced drop rate. Thyroid drops and adrenal were fubar'd at that time on arkadia and calypso, the only planet that seemed to be unaffected was RT i heard but i find RT not to my taste, it's ok but just not for me.

Maybe the drops were fixed and thats why you now see the mark up tanking again, or could be same and RT drops are now supplimenting (cool cats for example which were brought in same time as the thyroid/adrenal famine on caly/ark). Can't say if drops are normal again as not played much lately.

As to why i've not played of late is due to my loot going to crap after migration 2015, nothing i did seemed to work with keeping dpp 2.9xx to 3.xx and heal/armour costs crazy low (adj bio/imp fap when i had use giving under 1% turnover armour+heal cost). I went from being ahead overall to heavily down, long runs didn't matter, changing mob didn't matter was almost like my loot switch had been turned off. Part of losses were due to devaluation of adj fap i admit, but something changed at that point.

Basically losses i endured when doing everything i could didn't add up, maybe a year long low point i don't know but has left a sour taste for now. When you heal and make 2.5k ped over hours and weeks, then lose the lot on low/mid mobs in matter of days plus more one has to reconsider playing EU. Maybe i now need xxxxxxx ped to play + 10 hours a day in game to not get fleeced, but for now i just slowly sell stuff i have in storage and wait for a change.

All in all something drastically changed at that point (end migration 2015), nothing i did could stem loss even attempting to camp mobs. Even though i had little to no armour decay, super efficient healing, and ok dpp/dps for mobs i hunted things didn't add up.

I'm not the only one btw, quite a few are in hibernation mode.

Norbert said:

Basically losses i endured when doing everything i could didn't add up, maybe a year long low point i don't know but has left a sour taste for now. When you heal and make 2.5k ped over hours and weeks, then lose the lot on low/mid mobs in matter of days plus more one has to reconsider playing EU. Maybe i now need xxxxxxx ped to play + 10 hours a day in game to not get fleeced, but for now i just slowly sell stuff i have in storage and wait for a change.

I'm not the only one btw, quite a few are in hibernation mode.

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I had to admit that I got similar situation. Was doing quite good in mining getting a nice x300 every 7-10k ped bomb drop and had stable 95% returns on longer period of time. Later those x300 multis went down to x100 multis. So my runs looks like that: 6x 1k ped drop = 75-85% return + 1x1k ped drop =115-125% return.

After 2 weeks of that Ive lost almost whole plus which I was gathering from time I start playing again after few years of break.

krogfan said:

Just, this game is skillbased (or buffbased lol) so its not a strict moneymanagement/gambling thingy. I agree that its good to have a buffer to try and sell on peakpoints but allso there isnt that big spikes in returns if youre doing what youre doing correct.

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With this I disagree. Is correct that skills play a large role, but their impact is invisible on low samples/low budget. For example, couple of days ago in two connected beast amps (i measure runs in amps) on pbp32, I couldn't see a single global and, in the second amp, only 1 mini of 20 peds and 1 mini or 8 peds. Ambu/feffoids/trox. Switching mobs of course works, but there are so many options that at some point you finish the bankroll before finding some breathing space.

Exactly this is the point where a strict bankroll management is useful. In theory, with 1400 peds starting, I should have been fine. In practice, after 3 days I have 100. That hunt and a couple of mining runs very low amped with constant 50%. In retrospect, is not alot, and a couple of good runs on a 700-1k hp mob would bring most of it back. Or maybe a couple of, also doable, kickback mining runs. Point is to afford those

Coming back to first sentence, skills play a major role. I came back for about 3 months. Second half of it, with some setup adjustments and mob choice where my skills would make a margin (e.g. under lvl 15), I downed defence expenses to about 1% from about 3%. About 7-800 ped saved. Other close to, maybe, 1k saved due to using looted weapons. But no skill will ever modify the tt of your loot (at least to my humble experience). That's where bankroll management is a requirement.

If EU smiles a bit at you, of course feffs are doable with 50 bucks a month. I was a nondepo hunter for 1 year with a budget of 1k. Problem is EU can also bite your face until there's nothing left of it.

This thread definitely speaks to my personal gameplay.
Being a trader cash flow and mark up are very important.

Some players are here for leisure and fun and this allows for others to utilize advice in this thread to break even or make some extra.















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business

I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge, this is really helpful data.

I've always been told to hunt within my budget, but I never really knew what that was. Now you've given us the tools to figure that out. I wish I could give more than one rep.


Just to make sure I'm comprehending correctly, I have tried to reverse your formula in order to figure out what size mobs I should be hunting. Math is not one of my strong points, so I'm hoping for a sanity check here:

I want a target RoR of about 2%.
My current bankroll is about 2000 PED.
Based on my logs, 80% return is a conservative low bound.

So to maintain RoR of 2%, my lower bound result needs to be -40 PED (2000 *0.02).

This means I can cycle about 200 PED per day (40/0.2).

At around 500 kills, this means I should go for mobs that cost about 40 pecs per kill (200/500).

If I play like this, it would take 50 consecutive days of 80% returns to go broke.


Is this correct, or have I misunderstood?

Detritus said:

I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge, this is really helpful data.

I've always been told to hunt within my budget, but I never really knew what that was. Now you've given us the tools to figure that out. I wish I could give more than one rep.


Just to make sure I'm comprehending correctly, I have tried to reverse your formula in order to figure out what size mobs I should be hunting. Math is not one of my strong points, so I'm hoping for a sanity check here:

I want a target RoR of about 2%.
My current bankroll is about 2000 PED.
Based on my logs, 80% return is a conservative low bound.

So to maintain RoR of 2%, my lower bound result needs to be -40 PED (2000 *0.02).

This means I can cycle about 200 PED per day (40/0.2).

At around 500 kills, this means I should go for mobs that cost about 40 pecs per kill (200/500).

If I play like this, it would take 50 consecutive days of 80% returns to go broke.


Is this correct, or have I misunderstood?

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Sounds about right. I would defer to the spreadsheet. I would probably think you could raise your risk to around 5% if you play smart. Then you are looking at about 300 to 400hp mobs... which are argonauts etc. If you want to remain area 2%, then I think you are doing mobs like halix.

You ultimately need to decide what is worth your time and what you would find fun. Then you can see what bankroll you need or what the risk is with your current bankroll. You need the reward and fun factor to make your gear investments worth while. Just buying gear just because it meets your level is like trying to catch a sharp knife. You need the rewards to prevent burn out and maybe a little feeling of regret. It's a brain chemistry thing. You can't avoid it.

So many people playing floating with over 50% ror and they play this game in despair.

atomicstorm said:

Sounds about right. I would defer to the spreadsheet. I would probably think you could raise your risk to around 5% if you play smart. Then you are looking at about 300 to 400hp mobs... which are argonauts etc. If you want to remain area 2%, then I think you are doing mobs like halix.

You ultimately need to decide what is worth your time and what you would find fun. Then you can see what bankroll you need or what the risk is with your current bankroll. You need the reward and fun factor to make your gear investments worth while. Just buying gear just because it meets your level is like trying to catch a sharp knife. You need the rewards to prevent burn out and maybe a little feeling of regret. It's a brain chemistry thing. You can't avoid it.

So many people playing floating with over 50% ror and they play this game in despair.

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More wisdom from the master. You're right, 5% is probably still a safe bet where I'm at, and I do plan to depo more soon. I should be able to do Tiaraks and the like.

I think I would like to factor in the time component as well, since I don't have a lot of time to grind. I'm thinking that knowing the HP and DPS will allow me to insert a rough "time to kill" component into the formula, from which I could calculate how much play time I would need to keep my risk manageable. Or the other way around, if I only have X time, what HP mob should I target to reach N kills. I digress.

Anyway, thanks again, this is a really cool way to think about the game.

Detritus said:

More wisdom from the master. You're right, 5% is probably still a safe bet where I'm at, and I do plan to depo more soon. I should be able to do Tiaraks and the like.

I think I would like to factor in the time component as well, since I don't have a lot of time to grind. I'm thinking that knowing the HP and DPS will allow me to insert a rough "time to kill" component into the formula, from which I could calculate how much play time I would need to keep my risk manageable. Or the other way around, if I only have X time, what HP mob should I target to reach N kills. I digress.

Anyway, thanks again, this is a really cool way to think about the game.

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http://eldslott.org/entropia/

That tool will help you with "Time to Kill" calculations.

It may also be important to note that when calculating ROR... you can use your lowest average TT return, or return after markup. I don't think using returns after markup is safe for hunting, as markup generally sucks, and UL loots can vastly improve markup in the short term.

But if you're calculating by mining for example... my 40k bankroll mining 5,000 ped per day at a low-average return of 72% gives me a 3.5% ROR in terms of TT..


However, after markup my ROR would be more like 1.88% ROR... so it's a fairly massive difference. I've always told myself that i need to stay under 4% ROR before markup when mining.. that in turn gives me a ROR after markup of less than 2%.. which seems to be ideal as $5 has mentioned.

The lesson learned is that players stuck in a state of perpetual depositing should either 1) reduce level of activities to match bankroll, or 2) depo more ped to boost bankroll so you don't go broke.

thank you for the post, much valuable information here for new players and old

Kerham said:

5. use tt fap inbetween kills IF YOU ARE NOT IN A TIMED EVENT. Use emergency fap only if the mob can kill you in like two hits+crit. If not, just tt fap.

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Thats one of worse advice you could give to hunters ( unless u have hidden purpose . Using TT fap increase time between kils during competitive with other participants hunting run on area and, therefore reducing their chances to get good loot.

DPS shall be as high as possible ( up to avoid unreasonable overkill ) and time between loot actions ( a.k.a kiling another mob ) shall be as small as possible in order to get as many kill in said period of time as possible. Preferably to reach higher kill count than other hunters.

Good loot ( equalizer, higher than average multiplier resulting in global or HoF ) is not only function of your personal probablity of getting it, but also it dynamicaly depend on similar activity in vicinity of you. MA said clearly there is no loot pool. Faster performing of loot action makes your "probing" for good multiplier and area/mob multiplier more often. Such "outDPSing" and faster " probing" for mob/area multiplier leaves you competition beaten in those fields.

shoti said:

Thats one of worse advice you could give to hunters ( unless u have hidden purpose . Using TT fap increase time between kils during competitive with other participants hunting run on area and, therefore reducing their chances to get good loot.

DPS shall be as high as possible ( up to avoid unreasonable overkill ) and time between loot actions ( a.k.a kiling another mob ) shall be as small as possible in order to get as many kill in said period of time as possible. Preferably to reach higher kill count than other hunters.

Good loot ( equalizer, higher than average multiplier resulting in global or HoF ) is not only function of your personal probablity of getting it, but also it dynamicaly depend on similar activity in vicinity of you. MA said clearly there is no loot pool. Faster performing of loot action makes your "probing" for good multiplier and area/mob multiplier more often. Such "outDPSing" and faster " probing" for mob/area multiplier leaves you competition beaten in those fields.

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that clearly depends on how loot works though.
If you do it statistically then both hunters, low and high kill rate will ultimativly get the same return. it might tbe that the hunter with high killrate gets better loot faster but it might also be the exact opposite. both have the same chance in getting the loot. lets say both do 100k kills. then both hunter will get about the same retuern depending on eco etc. the slow hunter may need a year for this while the fast hunter maybe only a month. but the result will kinda be the same.

This thread is the best entropia advertise ever. Yes the game is better than ever and i agree that we just need more players. Im back in game AGAIN like many from the new players wave mentioned by berthabot in the last report, feeling that this time I'll stay bit longer. At this moment the game has future brighther than ever.

Me Really Never said:

that clearly depends on how loot works though.
If you do it statistically then both hunters, low and high kill rate will ultimativly get the same return. it might tbe that the hunter with high killrate gets better loot faster but it might also be the exact opposite. both have the same chance in getting the loot. lets say both do 100k kills. then both hunter will get about the same retuern depending on eco etc. the slow hunter may need a year for this while the fast hunter maybe only a month. but the result will kinda be the same.

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Nope you are wrong. While doing it in same time & place faster killer will get better loot TT wise. His loot will be so much better better as number of subsidizing him slower, less experiensed and using slower DPS weapons. IF any of those slow hunter will manage to kinda " steal" that one good area/mob multiplier it will be indeed probablity flux and exception from rule.

That effect exist to some degree in mining and it is non existant in crafting.

By better loot i am not only mean that higher DPS will hoard higher TT value in same time. I mean that it will get proportionally better TT loot in gain vs loss terms.

shoti said:

Thats one of worse advice you could give to hunters

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dude, is written in caps "IF YOU ARE NOT IN A TIMED EVENT. ".

wtf, you drunk?

As for that DPS thing, sorry, for me is bs. Never saw any proof that anybody in this game does something magic to get more than 100% tt. Until then, bs.

shoti said:

Nope you are wrong. While doing it in same time & place faster killer will get better loot TT wise. His loot will be so much better better as number of subsidizing him slower, less experiensed and using slower DPS weapons.

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Of course you have solid proofs that:

1. tt size is influenced by DPS in a disproportionate manner
2. there exists a mechanism of "subsidizing" aka lootsteal and is in a pyramidal form

I will just add my 2 pec that people should keep in mind:

1. You do not compete with Mindark but against other players

2. If EVERBODY starts playing like mentioned in the OP EVERYONE will lose

Peds that YOU gain come out of the pockets of players that cry how they lost lots of moneyz here on the forum

I run a business IRL, if I give all my info on how I do it to someone with enough cash then I will make less money than now because information is the key that gives me the edge over others. Since they dont have the info they would have to start from 0 and put money on the table to learn and research. If all my knowledge would be public to all people I would lose my business...

Otherwise this thread has possibly the best info for people that want to find a way to play and profit.

True

Kerham said:

dude, is written in caps "IF YOU ARE NOT IN A TIMED EVENT. ".

wtf, you drunk?

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As for loot it is not matter if it's timed event or not. Time involved is here as we have to compare somehow who gets better loot.
If player A is 10X DSP of player B then he not only get 10x higher loot TT wise ( thats obvious ). But he will get f.e. 11x or 12x better loot , so higher than his flat DPS should be.

Reason is that he will get more beter loot multipliers in said time of comparison due to more often probing for it. I hope you are not neglecting existence of loot multipliers ? If so go and kill in field then you will noticed. I killed thousand of same maturity mobs, at same spot, with same gear, at similar as possible conditions with only variable being time & date to confirm that.

Orgin of multipliers is unknown for me, but that not prevents me for using knowledge about them to my advantage. As other mentioned participating in entropia is zero-sum game. MA is not charity, nor deepless RL economy where you can create wealth.
Here it can be only passed.

Kerham said:

As for that DPS thing, sorry, for me is bs. Never saw any proof that anybody in this game does something magic to get more than 100% tt. Until then, bs.

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Fact, that you didn't saw it is not proof that such thing doesent exist. And calling it magic is sign of ignorance in this matter. Maybe you didnyt pay attention much whats going around you?

Kerham said:

Of course you have solid proofs that:

1. tt size is influenced by DPS in a disproportionate manner
2. there exists a mechanism of "subsidizing" aka lootsteal and is in a pyramidal form

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Yes I have. Under some circumstances it's easy to prove. Take 2 hunters, with huge DPS difference, send them to some deserted LA and alow hunt simultanously. Count average loot they shall have accrding to their DPS. Let them hunt for few hrs.
Compare loot.

You will notice that higher DPS hunter will get better loot due to catching more good multipliers in given time.

You may also take 10 hunters with 1/10 DPS of that uber DPS one and send all 11 to same area and let hunt. You will notice that even that chances of getting good multiplier by those 10 low DPS ones shall be similar in their sum to that supreme DPS one , he will still get more of better multiplier than any of them even if his supremacy in that area is cut to slight above 50%. I mean slight as it is non linear fro him if you draw a function of multiplier hitting for any one of them.


As proof of above i think could record video of profitable in TT term hunting run utilising density of probablity of hitting good multiplier, but then you probabbly call it luck instead of magic. Not mentioning even reasons why i shall do that for you.

True Juan said:

[...]

1. You do not compete with Mindark but against other players

2. If EVERBODY starts playing like mentioned in the OP EVERYONE will lose

Peds that YOU gain come out of the pockets of players that cry how they lost lots of moneyz here on the forum

I run a business IRL, if I give all my info on how I do it to someone with enough cash then I will make less money than now because information is the key that gives me the edge over others. Since they dont have the info they would have to start from 0 and put money on the table to learn and research. If all my knowledge would be public to all people I would lose my business...
[...]:

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You exactly nailed how it works and showed that you understand it. Entropia wasn't zero-sum from players point of view at some point. It was around 2003 and lasted for maybe a year. It was indeed subsidized then by MA, alowing for easy TT profit by expoiting various mechisms. In short advantage in gear gear and skils was giving much higher edge then than today.

1st wave of quiting ubers was around that time when MA finally wanted some money out of their product. Lot of ppl never fit to new reality consisted of eco religion and mass competition. Don't get me wrong , even then there were ppl losing money, even it was really much easier to profit than today.

shoti said:

As for loot it is not matter if it's timed event or not. Time involved is here as we have to compare somehow who gets better loot.
If player A is 10X DSP of player B then he not only get 10x higher loot TT wise ( thats obvious ). But he will get f.e. 11x or 12x better loot , so higher than his flat DPS should be.

Reason is that he will get more beter loot multipliers in said time of comparison due to more often probing for it. I hope you are not neglecting existence of loot multipliers ? If so go and kill in field then you will noticed. I killed thousand of same maturity mobs, at same spot, with same gear, at similar as possible conditions with only variable being time & date to confirm that.

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I can't even count the number of times I jump into a spawn, get a groove on, start riding a wave of globals, and then some higher skilled better geared av pops in, shoots a couple mobs, hits an uber hof and off they go, onto the next, and my loot dries up.

Mac said:

I can't even count the number of times I jump into a spawn, get a groove on, start riding a wave of globals, and then some higher skilled better geared av pops in, shoots a couple mobs, hits an uber hof and off they go, onto the next, and my loot dries up.

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Most likely explanation is that avatar has been at the area for a while filling the pool up, took a break and you happened onto the mob and stole some loot

Key part of this game is knowing the area and the hunters on it... I will avoid mobs/servers where there is hard-core grinding going on.

shoti said:

As proof of above i think could record video of profitable in TT term hunting run utilising density of probablity of hitting good multiplier, but then you probabbly call it luck instead of magic. Not mentioning even reasons why i shall do that for you.

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Let's set some things straight: between you and me, the one confirming the common wisdom is you. You're not coming out with any secret, exactly what you (or other tens of players) are saying is what is common accepted.

Therefore seeing logs of an uberhunter having, due to this high DPS and high eco combo, an abnormal positive tt return over extended turnover would not spill any golden eggs. It would only enforce what is already publicly aknowledged.

The only problem with this is just is fake. Is only marketing, mutually fueled by owners of uber items in order to keep the prices high (as long as MA allows those prices). I don't believe in conspiracies, but I do believe in players smart enough to understand their common interest. To keep prices up for weapons (especially the silly DPS ones), rings etc

Because every couple of months a new rich sucker logs in Entropia and buys into that. And goes shooting Feffox hatchlings with fully tiered bucketful for example, believing he is the cherry on the cake. Just to give an example, maybe the person is actually a smart witty player, but seeing his selling threads I somehow doubt. Or to fool players into hunting certain LAs. Or buying other uber items only to realize they have no clue what do with them and spend months trying to sell. Only came back to game this July and already saw the scenario three times. And dozens times in past years, starting with some praised investors who got shafted for half their items.

I am not pointing at you in particular because I could not possibly know wether you do this on purpose or not. Nor do I actually care. But:

1. burden of proof relies on the one who states, not on the one who denies.
2. I can also record (if my laptop can handle that lol) all my runs in hard core hunted areas and selectively publish only those in which I profit. Shoulder to shoulder with high DPSers. Me, a silly 30-40dps. Which at 100k rolled since July to now is tt-wise at 100,2%. Because ubers feed off my loot
3. The only publicly available extended logs (5$'s and Black Caesar's) prove exactly the opposite of what you're saying.
4. It is not me who needs that proof. I have my own dilemmas and hurdles with the game, but throwing my creditcard on high DPS weps is for sure not part of them. Is you and people who say same things as you in need to justify their statements.

So, bs.

Kerham said:

[...]

So, bs.

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Hey, i just revealed outcome of known for me methodology in conection to that topic. I don't need anyone to belive me. To be honest you just give me idea that i can somehow monetize that knowledge in more exact way than using it ingame ( yup, i am thinking about selling it now ). I saw logs you mentioned, but all i see there is more or less mindless grind with special attention to eco, wchich is totally not the case ( it helps of course boost result but is not necesary to profit TT "per se"). No sign of utilising multipliers system and density of probablity there.

If I will have to deliver proof i will certainly do it in a way that it leave no doubts. So no lucky run recorded out of few, no mindless grind resulting in nice loot from time to time. It can be direct stream on twich or tv, with selected for that gear & mob & time ( up to abilities of my avatar ofc ) by non-belivers. Or even other or fresh account. Basically all I need to generate TT profit under such conditions is some minimal time, about 30 mins, and minimal budget, about 100 ped.

I am here in EU 12 years already, and have recorded by tracker I think way over 1 million peds in globals, HoF's and ATH's. And my only visible records in transaction center are withdrawals. So i seen a bit as for loot.
Only reason i am not grinding 8 hrs/day here for a living is that online poker is easier, more predictable and more profitable for me.

Aio said:

Most likely explanation is that avatar has been at the area for a while filling the pool up, took a break and you happened onto the mob and stole some loot

Key part of this game is knowing the area and the hunters on it... I will avoid mobs/servers where there is hard-core grinding going on.

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MA said officially that there is no loot pool. I think they not lied here, even what we observe seems otherwise. More complex sytem of counting out multiplier, not only relying on personal counter, but involving specific mob multiplier probablly adjusted instantly to actual activity and some other ballancing variables may give such impression for observer. All in all it's smoke and mirror in soft casino. I bet it's what they call "dynamic" only becourse it's not pure random.

shoti said:

MA said officially that there is no loot pool. I think they not lied here, even what we observe seems otherwise. More complex sytem of counting out multiplier, not only relying on personal counter, but involving specific mob multiplier probablly adjusted instantly to actual activity and some other ballancing variables may give such impression for observer. All in all it's smoke and mirror in soft casino. I bet it's what they call "dynamic" only becourse it's not pure random.

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Nah, the way it specifically works is this:

Per "zone" (don't want to explain too heavily here mob/server etc) a value is "set". The input peds then build to this value (with output peds continually for "standard" and "multi" loots - these are your classic slot machine style mechanics). When the value is hit, the system pays out a proportion of this (say 90%) and retains the remainder for MA.

The value is set to different parameters, could be high, could be low.

This is why in pockets (1 mob on 1 server during a short amount of time) the general concept of a "loot pool" works.

In the overall system, MA can say that there is no pool, for sure

shoti said:

MA said officially that there is no loot pool.

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They said there is no "personal" loot pool. As in, the system doesn't track your expenses and doesn't balance out the payouts and doesn't owe you anything. But of course there are global pools, per profession (as they stated themselves in the very first devnote), perhaps per zone, per mob, etc, depending on what you believe in. There is no way to code it any other way without making it purely random, which it's not.

Aio said:

Nah, the way it specifically works is this:

Per "zone" (don't want to explain too heavily here mob/server etc) a value is "set". The input peds then build to this value [...]

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Svarog said:

They said there is no "personal" loot pool. As in, the system doesn't track your expenses[...]

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Basicaly we facing here lexical problem. If my avatar binded counter ( or rolling algoritm) hits finally that very rare number "you are deserving multiplier now, gz" and allow me probe for it's boost to other roling stages like mob/area/overall activity, some would call it pool. I would not as in my understanding of that word it is necesarily to stack and remeber decay spendings in those areas to be it proper pool. Like in classic jackpot loteries from church picknicks where jackpot winner from predefined aready set of tickets wins actually hoarded amount.

If we call a situation, where your "hunting winning ticket" start calculating that at actual decay you spent, on actual mob and/or/maybe area, at current overall ingame ectivity it comes straight from observation of that "ticket" picker and may look like classic pool. When in fact some lucky RNG just allow that picker for higher values during that calculation.

It' is visible on Entropia Life daily or weekly figures for specific mob. Not always highest weekly spender ( understood as biggest No. of globals ) gets biggest weekly loot. Often highest daily/weekly/monthly loot goes to random person who not input so much effort, time and money to obtain it. What Svarog remebered here confirms MA statement about not recording it personal way, resulting in frustration of dedicated hunters when such situation occurs.

So to not get ruined your bankroll in game simple eco grind "long enough" might be not enough, however often works. Especialy for huge bankroll owner, huge enough to allow them stand till they hit their good multi/set of multis. MA gets its cut anyway.

shoti said:

I am here in EU 12 years already, and have recorded by tracker I think way over 1 million peds in globals, HoF's and ATH's. And my only visible records in transaction center are withdrawals. So i seen a bit as for loot.
Only reason i am not grinding 8 hrs/day here for a living is that online poker is easier, more predictable and more profitable for me.

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Kerham has been ingame a bit longer. For some reason the high rollers are put on a pedestal, but they are not always the wisest players. What Kerham states makes a lot of sense.

Mac said:

I can't even count the number of times I jump into a spawn, get a groove on, start riding a wave of globals, and then some higher skilled better geared av pops in, shoots a couple mobs, hits an uber hof and off they go, onto the next, and my loot dries up.

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You nailed it, but the thing is, you can be that guy who jumps from mob to mob, instead of mindlessly grinding the same one for hours, waiting for the return to "even out"