Space PVP War!

Xane said:

Seriously though can anyone look at supports last response and tell me if I'm allowed to delay a warp in order drop a mine?

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Looks like "yes" to me but I'm just one man.

I also think your ban was justified, because it allowed Support to head off any potential aggravation of the situation while they took whatever time they needed to evaluate the situation.

I don't see wrongdoing on any of the sides of this. Ship happens.

Lefty said:

because it allowed Support to head off any potential aggravation of the situation while they took whatever time they needed to evaluate the situation.

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That's some really terrible reasoning there. "potential aggravation" WTF does that even mean? Show me where an evaluation was done, there was no conclusion there was only a punishment for something that as you just said I should be able to do in the future.

Your just saying what others have also said just in a more polite way and that is "your a pirate who cares about your rights". This has been the problem that Yoshii and myself have tried to point out.

If you support a system that treats some players unfair then your opening the door to systemic corruption. This has a trickle down effect to how the players treat each other. Kind of like if the system can abuse me then I can abuse others, if the system cheats me then I can cheat others. It's a very bad example to set for your player base.

Xane said:

That's some really terrible reasoning there. "potential aggravation" WTF does that even mean?

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Its almost like a group of people continuously and systematically harassed and delayed warp ships over the course of months (years?) until MA was forced to step in and start warning/banning players.

Pirates shit in the pot and now they are upset that its covered in shit when they decided to go use it.

Xane said:

Your not forced to travel is my point...it is a choice as much as you are not forced to mine those ores in land pvp.

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The other way to see more than one planet is to make more than one avatar.

Svena said:

Its almost like a group of people continuously and systematically harassed and delayed warp ships over the course of months (years?) until MA was forced to step in and start warning/banning players.

Pirates shit in the pot and now they are upset that its covered in shit when they decided to go use it.

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and by shit in the pot you mean we pvp'd in a pvp zone? But because some people don;t want to pvp in a pvp zone they cry and MA says we'll take care of that.

Yeah your logic is flawed as well.

Yoshii Lem said:

It seems some people advocate following:
You did wrong in past and were punished.
We dont care that you were punished we want you to keep being punished and we dont care how long ago you made the bad decision.

Of course if someone has past of wrongdoing you will be wary of them and not trusting that is natural. And if they did it more then once then yes of course you will be even more cautious. But you can be cautious and reserve your judgement without denying fair treatment for all players.

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Agreed. And there is an additional point.

Look at this from MindArk Support's perspective. From that perspective, is Support's role more similar to that of adjudication and punishment, or to that of limiting the spread of a fire?

From the latter perspective, assuming that a ban is a punishment will significantly warp one's view of Support's actions, if Support maybe just wanted to help the overall situation cool down.

And there is the matter of OP's habits of focusing preferentially on semantic details rather than on the intent of what is said - perhaps linked to an advantageous approach to pvp in which one inspects one's environment for every possible advantage and uses it - and second, of embracing answers which closely match his own point of view but vigorously invalidating the plausibility of answers which do not - which brings into question the potential benefit to him of making this thread at all (why bother us asking for responses he's not going to take and use?)

I'm glad his ban's over, hope Space gets improved, and hope everyone can let water go under the bridge and listen.

Xane said:

Made a poll...go vote.

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No. Because your poll's question is, in my view, not applicable to your situation. Does MA have the right to ban you? You're playing their game, so yes. End of justification. Was a ban the best solution to this situation? We don't have a way to know. Did you follow the rules? Again, no way to know, but from all the data in this thread up to your post I'm currently replying to, looks like you stayed well in the zone labelled "OK". So did Support.

With all due apologies, a simple two-choice question that boils down to "which one of the two of us is wrong?" just isn't applicable here.

Lefty said:

And there is the matter of OP's habits of focusing preferentially on semantic details rather than on the intent of what is said

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That's completely the opposite of what I've said here. I have addressed this issue over and over in this thread. The foundation of my argument against my ban was the fact that my intent was PVP and that was what support clearly said was needed in order to delay a warp. For you to say the complete opposite of this means you either have no comprehension of what was being discussed here or you like to make false truths so you can easily shoot them down?

Lefty said:

No. Because your poll's question is, in my view, not applicable to your situation. Does MA have the right to ban you? You're playing their game, so yes. End of justification. Was a ban the best solution to this situation? We don't have a way to know. Did you follow the rules? Again, no way to know, but from all the data in this thread up to your post I'm currently replying to, looks like you stayed well in the zone labelled "OK". So did Support.

With all due apologies, a simple two-choice question that boils down to "which one of the two of us is wrong?" just isn't applicable here.

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I have provided every possible piece of evidence in this case and yet you say "We don't have a way to know". In my opinion the reason you won't go against support has to do with your lack of objectivity and not the lack of information.

It is reassuring however to know that about 50% of the people that contributed to this thread could easily see the double standards that were being applied here. It is quite entertaining though to see the other half try so hard to argue against me while trying to maneuver around all the facts of this case.

A good way to solve this kind of problem is to temporarily ban both sides and not just the accused one, as in this case.. temporarily ban the mothership and its crew as well as to ban the pirate during the investigation.

Another advantage of this method is that it would probably reduce the number of supportcases when it also affects the "accuser" during the investigation.

Flash said:

A good way to solve this kind of problem is to temporarily ban both sides and not just the accused one, as in this case.. temporarily ban the mothership and its crew as well as to ban the pirate during the investigation.

Another advantage of this method is that it would probably reduce the number of supportcases when it also affects the "accuser" during the investigation.

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This would achieve what you said but would also punish the one making the support case. Maybe punish the person making the support case if it turns out not to be true.

Xane said:

and by shit in the pot you mean we pvp'd in a pvp zone? But because some people don;t want to pvp in a pvp zone they cry and MA says we'll take care of that.

Yeah your logic is flawed as well.

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Stop trying to erase history man. Your soc specifically was very well know for NOT trying to pvp and just purely harassing warp ships just because you could not kill them.

Its just like mob trains. They have their place in pvp but they were so widely abused that MA started handing out bans. Sure in specific instances you can justify their use but more often than not you will end up on the wrong side of support.


Stop exploiting space and maybe you guys can find some moral high ground, until then keep your support responding fingers ready to go.

Svena said:

Stop trying to erase history man. Your soc specifically was very well know for NOT trying to pvp and just purely harassing warp ships just because you could not kill them.

Its just like mob trains. They have their place in pvp but they were so widely abused that MA started handing out bans. Sure in specific instances you can justify their use but more often than not you will end up on the wrong side of support.


Stop exploiting space and maybe you guys can find some moral high ground, until then keep your support responding fingers ready to go.

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Only in Entropia can you shoot a space ship in space in a PVP and be considered harassment.

Just a simple Radar!!!

...can solve all this arguments...

Implement Radars in every ship and give eyes to pilots...let the space to be a funny place and make ppls life more interesting and with capability to avoid space predators...

Faceof is Dynamic...
Faceof...

Xane said:

I have provided every possible piece of evidence in this case and yet you say "We don't have a way to know".

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True. I have no way to know whether anything you say is true.

Xane said:

In my opinion the reason you won't go against support has to do with your lack of objectivity and not the lack of information.

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False. The reason I support Support's actions in this case is that I see no problem with the way they handled this. In their seat, even without past history with you, I would likely have done the same.

Please do us all the favor of growing up.

Lefty said:

Your poll's question is, in my view, not applicable to your situation. Does MA have the right to ban you? You're playing their game, so yes.

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Inside every pirate is a child with a chip on his/(cannot be a her) shoulder & a feeling of injustice against society & an unwillingness to just STFU.

Go and harass some more ships Xane, get the crankiness out of your system that way.

Got to admit thou this thread is of more interest than threads re buying/selling stuff I can neither use or afford.

Lefty said:

The reason I support Support's actions in this case is that I see no problem with the way they handled this. In their seat, even without past history with you, I would likely have done the same.

Please do us all the favor of growing up.

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Xane said:

It is quite entertaining though to see the other half try so hard to argue against me while trying to maneuver around all the facts of this case.

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Thank you for not addressing any of the evidence I have provided, I know the only thing you can attack is me and not the things I have said.

Faceof said:

Just a simple Radar!!!

...can solve all this arguments...

Implement Radars in every ship and give eyes to pilots...let the space to be a funny place and make ppls life more interesting and with capability to avoid space predators...

Faceof is Dynamic...
Faceof...

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this is entropia, arguments and drama are part of the game

Xane said:

Thank you for not addressing any of the evidence I have provided, I know the only thing you can attack is me and not the things I have said.

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Do me the favor of demonstrating how any of the evidence you provided affects whether an MMO's support staff have the right to suspend or ban any player for any or no reason?

Lefty said:

Do me the favor of demonstrating how any of the evidence you provided affects whether an MMO's support staff have the right to suspend or ban any player for any or no reason?

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Again your just making a false argument so you can easily shoot it down. This was never a thread about what MA CAN do, it was always about what they SHOULD do. MA CAN do whatever they want but they SHOULD only do things that are fair and ethical.

The whole reason for this thread was to point out something that I believe MA is doing wrong. For you to say yes MA is totally in the right to ban you because they can has nothing to do with the questions I posed in this thread. In fact your not even opposing what I've said.

Xane said:

Seriously though can anyone look at supports last response and tell me if I'm allowed to delay a warp in order drop a mine?

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You have the reply right here, as you posted it:

Xane said:

"Either you are allowed to disrupt a MS's warp in order to buy time to drop a warp mine, or your not?"

This is not what we are discussing, I've already told you that this was fine and even commended you on a good fight.

Our question which you did answer now in a better way was that when the fighting was over and that means towards the end of the fight regardless of which end it was, them escaping or you leaving to remain then to disrupt the warp is not allowed.

Hence you may understand that it is indeed a complicated issue as it is not easy to define what is what just as you said when it comes to who defines when the fight is over.

As you've stated you've already met the lock duration and we will now unlock your account and we've informed you in regards to this, so if a similar situation should occur you will be aware of that you are allowed to stall but when the fighting is done there shouldn't be any reason to call harassment.

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Practically, your Group have a history of delaying warps Before, and as support can't read your mind, this looked just like Another try to prevent a warp from leaving. After you did explain clearly what you were doing, you got unlocked a few Days later.

As a sidenote, whenever I see a thread "I got locked???" I Always wonder, is there something that the original poster didn't mention. Like, picking up a stack of PEDs under a bridge, buying 1000 sweat for 200 ped or using their spouses paypal account. Answers that has to be pulled out using a pair of pliers.

Xane said:

Me Really Never said:

then explain me the physics besides that please. when object a flys a straight line at a certain speed and object b can fly with up to maximum the same speed as object a and object b is behind object a considering obejct a's destination then it is impossible for object b to ever reach object a without increasing its speed. if you do know other physics then me please explain it to me.
you may not know this but a straight line is the shortest connection between 2 points.
so yes. without exploits it is not possible.

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Knowing how to do these things is what makes me good at my craft. I'm not obligated to share the details with you, besides it wouldn't be in my best interests to give up my secrets

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Players are noticing that it seems some "special" people are allowed to use bots and others not as one example.
If some people are caught over and over and being reported for using exploits and they are allowed to continue this behavior then there is a problem of players having loss of trust in the game.
Some of us notice people using one advantage or another and the playing field is not even and it is that much harder to avoid loss. When a player uses exploit it is the honest players who must pay for it.

It becomes a thing unpredictable. People start feeling like they do not know what the rules are anymore.

"If some big mucky muck gives me hard time will I be ignored when I ask for help"

"Should I invest my money in a game where I have disadvantage because I have to follow rules that others do not"

"Im tired of hunting/mining, crafting where it costs me more then the cheaters"

These are questions and concerns that players have.

Forget for the moment who asked the question first in this particular thread.

Do you want to be treated fairly or not?
YES for me on this question.

Yoshii Lem said:

Forget for the moment who asked the question first in this particular thread.

Do you want to be treated fairly or not?
YES for me on this question.

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The OP did get unlocked after 4 days.

If you really are into fair rulings, read about this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/super-court?utm_term=.ujb4DjDXe7#.fkp26Y6OKa .

I Think support did the best they could, during the circumstances. It's a good move they strive to keep harassment out of space, because it's a pvp zone most people don't go to for the purpose of experiencing pvp, but rather a zone most people have to pass through to travel from one (mainly) non-pvp area to Another non-pvp-area. It's also a pvp zone (the only lootable pvp zone) you don't automatically leave when haven gotten killed by Another player.

aia said:

After you did explain clearly what you were doing, you got unlocked a few Days later.

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OK can you point to their reply where they said "after a careful review we have determined you've done nothing wrong and we have unlocked you account, sorry for the inconvenience."?

In my opinión, pirates should not exist. In the game the money is real. Therefore, it is only a school for criminals and delinquents.

Xane said:

OK can you point to their reply where they said "after a careful review we have determined you've done nothing wrong and we have unlocked you account, sorry for the inconvenience."?

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Can you Point me to a reply telling you have done *nothing* wrong at your side. I don't mean things that MA staff has dectected on and decided to act on. I don't (only) mean things like hacking with a hexcode editor into game, but also done things through the UI that can be seen as "bug abuse".

Just to give an example, I Heard a story from a space combat where one of you in the middle of a fight left the quad, in space, started to repair it, and then stepped back into the quad. (I didn't see it myself so I don't know if it's true or not.)

Can you point me to a reply, showing how "you" have been able to travel faster than me sideways even while I've been travelling in a straight line?

If you did find out or you Heard from Another player a way to travel faster than a normal quad in a straight line; did you report the bug/glitch to Mindark and ceased to use it to gain an in-game unfair advantage?

Can you Point me to a reply with an apology for the history with beginners being summoned into a privateer and shot in space (and left at space station), causing the now ongoing inconvenience with the summoning window disappearing after 10 seconds so I have to stay glued to my monitor waiting for (a possibly delayed) scheduled ride to summon me up? Before that, after motherhips sent their "first summon" the summon box would remain on screen, so even if I wasn't glued to monitor, I could see it a few minutes later and accept it.

Can you Point me to an apology to the passengers who were passing past Rocktropia, for the times when you delayed warps there; possibly as revenge because of passengers logging off? (Note: I didn't log out. However, I often missed the opportunity of going down on planets like Next Island and Cyrene because of the delay which that caused.) I don't expect you to apologize to the mothership service; but those who you owe an "apology for the inconvenience" are the passengers who you were delaying.

aia said:

Can you Point me to a reply telling you have done *nothing* wrong at your side. I don't mean things that MA staff has dectected on and decided to act on. I don't (only) mean things like hacking with a hexcode editor into game, but also done things through the UI that can be seen as "bug abuse".

Just to give an example, I Heard a story from a space combat where one of you in the middle of a fight left the quad, in space, started to repair it, and then stepped back into the quad. (I didn't see it myself so I don't know if it's true or not.)

Can you point me to a reply, showing how "you" have been able to travel faster than me sideways even while I've been travelling in a straight line?

If you did find out or you Heard from Another player a way to travel faster than a normal quad in a straight line; did you report the bug/glitch to Mindark and ceased to use it to gain an in-game unfair advantage?

Can you Point me to a reply with an apology for the history with beginners being summoned into a privateer and shot in space (and left at space station), causing the now ongoing inconvenience with the summoning window disappearing after 10 seconds so I have to stay glued to my monitor waiting for (a possibly delayed) scheduled ride to summon me up? Before that, after motherhips sent their "first summon" the summon box would remain on screen, so even if I wasn't glued to monitor, I could see it a few minutes later and accept it.

Can you Point me to an apology to the passengers who were passing past Rocktropia, for the times when you delayed warps there; possibly as revenge because of passengers logging off? (Note: I didn't log out. However, I often missed the opportunity of going down on planets like Next Island and Cyrene because of the delay that caused.)

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Quizz Time : Which one of these Evasive Positioning Strategy did Aia employ above.

"A. The Do-Nothing Behavior: “Let me make broad statements as if I know what I’m talking about to shut you down, but I don’t actually have the details to solve the problem.”

B. The Self-Protection CYA Behavior: “Let me tell you why the problem I am bringing to your attention is a result of something that happened before, and so is not my fault.”

C. The Self-Promotion Behavior: “Let me point out to you how everything’s all messed up, and I’m the hero because I’m going to fix everyone else’s mistakes.”

D. The Undermine-You Behavior: “Let me roll my eyes when you speak, so you and everyone around us knows that I don’t respect what you’re saying.”

E. The Patronizing Behavior: “Let me talk down to you, or over you, so you don’t threaten me with your new ideas.” (Especially common around women.)"

Xane said:

OK can you point to their reply where they said "after a careful review we have determined you've done nothing wrong and we have unlocked you account, sorry for the inconvenience."?

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Somewhat lightheartedly, have you seen one of the short video clips of Jack Sock, the tennis player, saying his opponent should challenge the linesman's call?

Have you ever said sorry to support for the work involved in checking things and banning you on previous occassions?

However, I also wonder whether support have ever received an apology from their bosses at MA, that features are poorly thought through/implemented and support ends up with the flack and extra workload?

Ok, I will apologise to support on the offchance that they ever get to read any threads such as these, for often not having as much understanding for them as they may deserve in their position (working at MA support).

edit: just seen Daisy's post squeeze in. Could you maybe remove the sexism at the end there? Also I disagree with this particular post, but thought your recent post on the "evolution of space strategies " was really, really good. It shows that even with a fixed environment, behaviours can change over time and in waves etc.

DaisyColdFinger said:

Quizz Time : Which one of these Evasive Positioning Strategy did Aia employ above.

"A. The Do-Nothing Behavior: “Let me make broad statements as if I know what I’m talking about to shut you down, but I don’t actually have the details to solve the problem.”

B. The Self-Protection CYA Behavior: “Let me tell you why the problem I am bringing to your attention is a result of something that happened before, and so is not my fault.”

C. The Self-Promotion Behavior: “Let me point out to you how everything’s all messed up, and I’m the hero because I’m going to fix everyone else’s mistakes.”

D. The Undermine-You Behavior: “Let me roll my eyes when you speak, so you and everyone around us knows that I don’t respect what you’re saying.”

E. The Patronizing Behavior: “Let me talk down to you, or over you, so you don’t threaten me with your new ideas.” (Especially common around women.)"

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I'm going to say all of the above but yeah the common argumentative tactic here is to avoid the facts and for the love of GOD don't answer direct questions.

This guy implies in post #441 that not only did support unlock my account because of my evidence I provided but that support had no way of knowing my intentions without the ability to read my mind. Reading the replies from support nothing could be further from the truth. Not only did they tell me my supplied chat logs were irrelevant but they also indicated that the reason i was unlocked was because I had met the unlock time requirement. Also they warned me about harassment in the future.

I tried to point this out to aia as this contradicts his opinion of supports actions and he runs away throwing up straw man arguments behind him as fast as he can.

The point is MA has no way of knowing intentions so they base banning people off of he said/ she said crap.
Its my opinion that the second you venture into PVP space, prepare to get shot at. I don't care (and neither should MA) about harassment. Everything goes. The fact that people use a bug in space is MA's fault as they are more than aware of it yet do nothing to fix it.

Need to go in space? Don't carry lootables
Need to carry lootables? take a MS
Afraid of the MS getting shot down? take one that actually fights back

Normandie rarely sees pirates attacking and do you know why?
Because we have a crew thats more than happy to shoot the buggers down!