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Space PVP War!

Was Xane's ban justified?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 38.2%

  • No

    Votes: 36 47.4%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 11 14.5%
  • Total voters
    76
Xane said:
You know you could have saved us both a lot of time and just said from the start that you don't think I should get fair treatment from support because I honestly have nothing to say to that.
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it really looks like you are allergic to using your own brain dude... if you dont understand the basic concept of causality
 
Me Really Never said:
it really looks like you are allergic to using your own brain dude... if you dont understand the basic concept of causality
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This is my last response to you....
 
Xane said:
This is my last response to you....
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i have really no clue what you were expecting.
i mean its like this: a man robs a bank and gets 1 year in jail. after hes out he robs a bank again and now gets 3 years in jail. then after he is out he robs a bank again and thinks he shouldnt be punished for it and is surprised when he now gets 5 years in jail...
 
If anyone wants to make the claim that I broke the rules in this case your going to have to address the evidence that I've presented here, reducing this down to "you're a bad guy so you deserve to be banned" isn't going to cut it.

No more shitty analogies, no more straw man arguments and no more ignoring the facts.
 
Xane said:
So I shouldn't expect to be treated fairly by support in the future?
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Are you seriously expecting that a history of bad behaviour has no influence at all on the judgement of future incidents? It turned out you're exonerated this time, but the way the action started fit exactly into the known pattern, which led to you being reported at all. How can you believe this has nothing to do with the past and call it unfair? You received the most fair outcome possible being freed after only a short investigation.

If you want people to look differently at you, you have to change your ways in a much more fundamental way. It is within your right as well as the provisions built into this game to choose not to, but as also already pointed out several times, your choices have consequences. Everytime you play borderline on the rules, the eye on you will be sharper than the one on any other player getting ensnared in something who has no such history. Nothing about this is unfair. It is how communities work and protect themselves throughout evolution, and a direct consequence of the way you choose to position yourself in it.
 
San said:
Are you seriously expecting that a history of bad behaviour has no influence at all on the judgement of future incidents? It turned out you're exonerated this time, but the way the action started fit exactly into the known pattern, which led to you being reported at all. How can you believe this has nothing to do with the past and call it unfair? You received the most fair outcome possible being freed after only a short investigation.

If you want people to look differently at you, you have to change your ways in a much more fundamental way. It is within your right as well as the provisions built into this game to choose not to, but as also already pointed out several times, your choices have consequences. Everytime you play borderline on the rules, the eye on you will be sharper than the one on any other player getting ensnared in something who has no such history. Nothing about this is unfair. It is how communities work and protect themselves throughout evolution, and a direct consequence of the way you choose to position yourself in it.
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So having been already punished in the past for my so called wrong doings I am to be punished for things I'm not even guilty of moving forward? Have you ever heard the term justice is blind? Since you bring up community do you know why it's important to have objectivity in a community and why its not good to have bias or prejudices.

Let's not forgot I followed the rules that were giving to me. I was not exonerated of anything I was punished and then let go. There was no investigation. I posted all the responses I got from support.

I am not going to stop space pvp'ing and I don't think that I should be treated any different than any other player because of that.
 
thats good for us though. as you obviously dont understand how punishments work we will hopefully see a permaban for third strike.
 
It seems some people advocate following:
You did wrong in past and were punished.
We dont care that you were punished we want you to keep being punished and we dont care how long ago you made the bad decision.

Xane is correct there is double standard. Some players do indeed harass others over and over and Mind Ark looks the other way. Xane is speaking truth about that whatever his past may be. And it is not just pirates that are subjected to this treatment.
This sort of double standard is among reasons we need to consistently and fairly apply rules. Why justice needs to be blind.

Of course if someone has past of wrongdoing you will be wary of them and not trusting that is natural. And if they did it more then once then yes of course you will be even more cautious. But you can be cautious and reserve your judgement without denying fair treatment for all players.
 
San said:
....
If you want people to look differently at you, you have to change your ways in a much more fundamental way. It is within your right as well as the provisions built into this game to choose not to, but as also already pointed out several times, your choices have consequences. Everytime you play borderline on the rules, the eye on you will be sharper than the one on any other player getting ensnared in something who has no such history. Nothing about this is unfair. It is how communities work and protect themselves throughout evolution, and a direct consequence of the way you choose to position yourself in it.
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While I mostly agree, this is a virtual universe with two "made-up" sides which people can join. The playing field should be as balanced overall as possible. Maybe it should be stated more clearly that if you join the dark side, people are going to hate you, even support (after a while), because complaints are going to be made against you.
Being bad is what bad guys do. Sometimes they do manage to create a better "honour" system than other groups, however. "Honour amongst thieves" is a well known concept, as well as being an "honest thief" etc.

If I worked for support, I would have checked things out first and in this case not banned xane. However, I would also have put in a recommendation slip to management/devs on making certain changes to space!
 
JohnCapital said:
No, seriously. Read the story on this link
https://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html
And give it 10 seconds of quiet thought about how it may apply to you.
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I refer you to post #394, I'm tired of going down these stupid rabbit holes.

I will address this silly story, the take away from that story is someone told so many lies that no one would believe him when he told the truth. This doesn't relates to my situation unless delaying the Kronan in the past somehow makes me a liar? I'll already stated many times that I did attack the Kronan in that past for the purpose of delaying them, I never lied about that.

If your trying to judge a persons intentions and there is not much evidence to help make that determination then yes bring into account their past actions. However when there is plenty of evidence to show their intent then judge the situation based on that.


Edit: Let's make a real analogy. A guy goes to jail for stealing, he does his time and is released. He goes into a store and someone recognizes him, they call the police because they think he going to steal again. It turns out he wasn't trying to steal anything but the police are lazy and don't want to do an investigation so they just lock him up under the assumption that he was probably going to steal again. Give it 10 seconds of quiet thought about how it may apply here.
 
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the-neverending-story-ii--the-next-chapter_.jpg
 
I think it is Karma.
All the times you get away with doing bad things.
And, you get punished for maybe not doing bad things (maybe?)

Karmic debts always get paid - accept your punishment Xane & give it a rest - you can now move forward with a clean(er) slate. Its a win/win for everyone |o/
 
Ranavolana said:
I think it is Karma.
All the times you get away with doing bad things.
And, you get punished for maybe not doing bad things (maybe?)

Karmic debts always get paid - accept your punishment Xane & give it a rest - you can now move forward with a clean(er) slate. Its a win/win for everyone |o/
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Ah yes Karma! Justice for the inept.

So it's karma when I'm punished for something I didn't do because of all the "bad" I've done in the past? I assume your talking about all the pirating I've done when your say "bad things".

But what about all those people I pirated, they were having something bad happen to them just like I was having something bad happen to me when I was locked. Doesn't that mean that all those I pirated were just being punished for something bad they have done?

If that's the case aren't I just the deliverer of bad karma? Why should "karma" punish me just for being the delivery boy? Now shouldn't support be punished by "karma" for delivering my punishment?

It's a never ending cycle of bad karma if you going to subscribe to that philosophy. I don't believe in karma. I think it's just something people invent so they don't have to deal or think about certain people or subjects.
 
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jesus christ we get it. you are mad cos you chose the thug life and cant accept the consequences. just let it go man.
 
Xane said:
This doesn't relates to my situation unless delaying the Kronan in the past somehow makes me a liar?
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Way cold.

Xane said:
A guy goes to jail for stealing, he does his time and is released. He goes into a store and someone recolonizes him, they call the police because they think he going to steal again. It turns out he wasn't trying to steal anything but the police are lazy and don't want to do an investigation so they just lock him up under the assumption that he was probably going to steal again.
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Now you're getting much warmer. :) See, I had faith you'd get it soon.

Whelp, this has been fun, but gotta go now.
 
Made a poll...go vote.
 
Xane said:
Edit: Let's make a real analogy. A guy goes to jail for stealing, he does his time and is released. He goes into a store and someone recolonizes him, they call the police because they think he going to steal again. It turns out he wasn't trying to steal anything but the police are lazy and don't want to do an investigation so they just lock him up under the assumption that he was probably going to steal again. Give it 10 seconds of quiet thought about how it may apply here.
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You dirty dirty boy.. you want to get recolonized... you say... *wink*
 
This thread is bringing to light the serious problem of double standard and hypocrisy that runs rampant in the game.
"If it is someone I dont like they dont need to get justice let them suffer they deserve it"
The problem with this way of thinking and acting is when a person and or group for whatever reason get mad and hold grudge on someone applying negative labels, misinformation, bullying, lies etc. and when the wronged player calls the bully on their bad deeds the bully cries to the public "Im being picked on again!"

If players had confidence in Mind Ark and fair and impartial application of rules there would be lots less tension in this game.

It is not always about drama when a player presents a conflict to the community. Sometimes it is cry for help. Sometimes it is about "Im scared everything I have worked so hard for will be taken from me"
 
Yoshii Lem said:
This thread is bringing to light the serious problem of double standard and hypocrisy that runs rampant in the game.
"If it is someone I dont like they dont need to get justice let them suffer they deserve it"
The problem with this way of thinking and acting is when a person and or group for whatever reason get mad and hold grudge on someone applying negative labels, misinformation, bullying, lies etc. and when the wronged player calls the bully on their bad deeds the bully cries to the public "Im being picked on again!"

If players had confidence in Mind Ark and fair and impartial application of rules there would be lots less tension in this game.

It is not always about drama when a player presents a conflict to the community. Sometimes it is cry for help. Sometimes it is about "Im scared everything I have worked so hard for will be taken from me"
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Thank you Yoshii, you obviously understand the importance of this topic.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
This thread is bringing to light the serious problem of double standard and hypocrisy that runs rampant in the game.
"If it is someone I dont like they dont need to get justice let them suffer they deserve it"
The problem with this way of thinking and acting is when a person and or group for whatever reason get mad and hold grudge on someone applying negative labels, misinformation, bullying, lies etc. and when the wronged player calls the bully on their bad deeds the bully cries to the public "Im being picked on again!"

If players had confidence in Mind Ark and fair and impartial application of rules there would be lots less tension in this game.

It is not always about drama when a player presents a conflict to the community. Sometimes it is cry for help. Sometimes it is about "Im scared everything I have worked so hard for will be taken from me"
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funny though how you do the same. you are on pirate side defaming the kronan crew and the others are on the anti pirate side doing the same to you. you are the same. just on another side.
 
The only side I am on is side of fair application of rules to all.

Some people participating in this thread have been re interpreting what I have written for their own agenda of convincing the community that I am somehow bad person who supports one particular group against everyone else.
Stop pretending that I support any particular group to detriment of others.
Have said throughout this thread fair treatment for ALL players.
Xane who happens to be in pirate profession started thread on this very important topic.
He shared his personal details as example to the topic at hand.
Advocating fair treatment and application of rules to all including Xane is commitment to VALUES.
Nothing bad, nefarious or treacherous in that for all that some of you wish to make it so.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
If players had confidence in Mind Ark and fair and impartial application of rules there would be lots less tension in this game.
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I believe we're asking quite a bit too much of them here. They are a company that develops games, not one that employs a team of lawyers, judges or any form of professional arbitrators to police the community that plays them. Support should deal with mostly technical issues and not have to judge behavioural patterns, only exception to prosecute exploitation of technical flaws like the map hack. But something needs to be done. Got an idea which really belongs in an own thread, will edit and link here when ready.

Edit: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?288140-Small-Claims-Court
 
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I for myself am on the PvP side, not pirate nor non pirate ,)

One of the problems with PvP in Entropia is i think, that you just have Open PvP everyone versus everyone.
Are there even other modern MMOs that got that?
Choose faction for example where it's 1 faction against the other in a PvP zone could work.
With everyone versus everyone, just change lootable PvP like it is now to lootable PvP where players are treatet like other Mobs. Only problem there is, that you need to find a way that players don't abuse that to farm each other over and over again just for loot.

Battlegrounds with 10v10 or more would also be nice, i hope we will get something like this, MA can get alot of money from that and players have fun.
 
Hmmm

I have not read all the posts here as I skimmed through the pages.

My opinion is if it is part of EU gameplay and not an exploit,I believe there has been a 'wrong' here. To be fair, if a true engagement is involved in space,it should be exactly that,fair.
Banning anyone from their gamplay or someone complaining about is in contradiction to the rules. No matter if I agree or disagree makes no difference to outcome or how game is defined within those parameters.
I feel that Xane has a very good point and not to be slighted by personal agenda or involvement. Fair game..is fair game.

No matter if anyone agrees or disagrees,that is the game. (whether we like it or not,and yes it may suck)
 
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Carn said:
I for myself am on the PvP side, not pirate nor non pirate ,)

One of the problems with PvP in Entropia is i think, that you just have Open PvP everyone versus everyone.
Are there even other modern MMOs that got that?
Choose faction for example where it's 1 faction against the other in a PvP zone could work.
With everyone versus everyone, just change lootable PvP like it is now to lootable PvP where players are treatet like other Mobs. Only problem there is, that you need to find a way that players don't abuse that to farm each other over and over again just for loot.

Battlegrounds with 10v10 or more would also be nice, i hope we will get something like this, MA can get alot of money from that and players have fun.
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MA has a crippling fear of money and success.
 
Laying claim to any particular group as having no rights is a convenient way to remove their humanity and thus any hope for them to obtain fair treatment. By denying rights to a particular group and then throwing label of said group against those whom you do not approve of allows for mistreatment under the guise of cleansing the community.
Careful of walking down such a road lest you yourself fall into the downtrodden and nobody is there to stand up for your rights.
 
Thorns Rose said:
I have not read all the posts here as I skimmed through the pages.

My opinion is if it is part of EU gameplay and not an exploit,I believe there has been a 'wrong' here. To be fair, if a true engagement is involved in space,it should be exactly that,fair.
Banning anyone from their gamplay or someone complaining about is in contradiction to the rules. No matter if I agree or disagree makes no difference to outcome or how game is defined within those parameters.
I feel that Xane has a very good point and not to be slighted by personal agenda or involvement. Fair game..is fair game.

No matter if anyone agrees or disagrees,that is the game. (whether we like it or not,and yes it may suck)
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How dare you differentiate yourself from our approved norms - You will conform to majority bias immediately ! Remember, you do not want to be socially excluded - No to reason - logic is bad - Be like us :)

aaaand MARCH ::::::: !) - i mean SLEEP ! or dont - doesnt matter ;)

Follow :
 
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Dont think the ban was justified.

Remember a ms got a hangar to send out quads for defense purposes.

Privateers can pos backup by the stations , the warps arent done far away from the safe zones.

I know an airline prefers the easy way to profit without disturbance but thats not how pvp works.

Is the same as if someone complains that he cant pick up oil at the oilrigs without getting shot at.
 
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