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Space PVP War!

Was Xane's ban justified?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 38.2%

  • No

    Votes: 36 47.4%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 11 14.5%
  • Total voters
    76
Read all the thread...lol.

So the ban has got to be about continually attacking the same target. That said I can feel the frustration of the pirates, they planned an attack and the ship runs to safe zone. So they feel cheated and want to take it down so keep pushing.

Maybe the solution is to mine the ship further out, although harder to get that right I guess. Is it worth it?

Money always talks here, I guess if a whale complains the whale wins.

Still; it was interesting to see MA's old vision of space PVP still trying to work. I'm under the impression MA is planning a big space update so in some ways this particular battle will have some experience purpose towards helping make that work.

I always thought the pirates were MA anyway.....guess I guessed wrong....or did I...lol.

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
So the ban has got to be about continually attacking the same target.
Click to expand...

What I'm gathering, too. If we're not mistaken, he has a preference for attacking this particular ship instead of spreading the love. If this is not harrassment, then I don't know what is.

Well it's a roleplaying game and MA created a role for douchebags, which serves as a honeypot for characters who are so inclined. Can't fail them for sense of realism ;) As much as pirating is part of the game, so are the social consequences for taking that route. Y'all made your bed, now live with it.
 
pontfirebird73 said:
Its this one word that makes a difference. Legal, and since its legal to loot people in pvp space...
Click to expand...

The only issue here is that EU is really the only RCE game out there so yes it may be able to get away from a lot of legal issues here.

But the issue of who owns what in game has come up before and I even voiced it. He is right, MA owns the PED and sad to say that is why if MA were to close down tomorrow they would not have to pay any of us back because we own nothing -- more or less.
 
I would think the pirate's activities were suspect if they were doing this every day, seemingly as they are, with the knowledge, because everyone knows, there isn't any payload here because it's a warp service.. except to grief or disrupt.
 
atomicstorm said:
I would think the pirate's activities were suspect if they were doing this every day, seemingly as they are, with the knowledge, because everyone knows, there isn't any payload here because it's a warp service.. except to grief or disrupt.
Click to expand...

People do things in this game just for fun, not just profit. It is a game after all.
 
Me Really Never said:
so you are saying you got warned over a year ago and still did take the risk of getting banned AND got banned now... surprising

also micjack is one of the biggest dicks in history of the earth. everyone accompaning him is rated low level scum. he is one of the main reasons why pirates are viewed as shitbags. big exploiter and cheater.
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This ^^^^^^^^^
 
afaik if Ma sees some fundament to the case they lock to investigate.

It would make sense, imagine people that exploited the system with amp bugs and such, economical advantage
How silly would it be
"hey you gonna be banned for investigation, please be ready to ditch all so we can lock"


It wasnt the first time you got banned, that doesnt help it
 
Mac said:
I suggest this is a perfect time to give space ship owners their money back, remove space, and put all planets in the FREE TP drop down list.
Click to expand...

:wise: THIS. :wise:

Space is a dud, its overall major effect being to drive away potential player interest in the game. Whatever amount MindArk gains from ammo spent in Space pales in comparison to the cost generated by generating so much disinterest from so many players over an easily repaired flaw in the game's design. The change Mac suggested is long overdue. :yup:
 
krazykat said:
No they don't say it was excessive or harassment. But just sitting there and putting in a shot every time the ship tries to warp and to continue to to do this for 5 minutes IS harassment. and as I said before, its MA's interpretation that counts, not yours
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I respectfully disagree. I see the action described as a stalling action, just another tool in the pvp toolbox.
 
RickEngland said:
So the ban has got to be about continually attacking the same target.
Click to expand...

When you say continually do you mean for minutes or days or weeks? I don't understand what your point is, ofc I continually attacked them for the duration of the battle.
 
The Jetman said:
Thing is, Space is PVP, there is a warning when your entering and that is your agreement to partake in PVP. Giving an option is the end of motherships, warp drive and space. Yeah we all hate Pirates, but they create risk that in turn helps Mothership owners, Taxis and stops all loot been taken to caly or ark and destroying small planets already weak economy.
Click to expand...

I don't know what rock you've been living under, sir, but I don't think I am alone in responding to the above scenario not by hiring warps but by shunning all planets whose economy is weak, just because I can't get a decent price for my loot in any remotely timely fashion on them. In practice, this means that I spend 90% of my peds on Calypso.

JUST because I can't afford a warp.

Let that sink in for a minute.

Piracy is not helping anyone. For the average Joe, piracy just means not transporting goods between planets, ever.

:wise:
 
Pirates play to pvp. People in transit between planets, are in space to get from point A to point B, not to pvp. Any scenario in which space pvp is not fully optional, can only result in what we all just read ten pages of.
 
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San said:
What I'm gathering, too. If we're not mistaken, he has a preference for attacking this particular ship instead of spreading the love. If this is not harrassment, then I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

In the past 30 days I have probably attacked over a dozen MS's and Privateers. Two of those times was the Kronan, and if you had taken the time to read the logs I posted you would have seen that this particular engagement wasn't even my idea. Still harassment?


San said:
Well it's a roleplaying game and MA created a role for douchebags, which serves as a honeypot for characters who are so inclined. Can't fail them for sense of realism ;) As much as pirating is part of the game, so are the social consequences for taking that route. Y'all made your bed, now live with it.
Click to expand...

I didn't decide that I was going to be a "douchebag" that's not the bed I made. That's the label you and many have decided to label us as for a multitude of untruths. As many non "pirates" have already pointed out pirates are nothing more that PVP'ers in space. If you want to attached all kinds of other negative associations with us because of our involvement in space PVP then that's on you. As I have said before I don't care about my social standing or what you think of me.
 
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Lefty said:
In sum: Pirates play to pvp. People in transit between planets, are in space to get from point A to point B, not to pvp. Any scenario in which space pvp is not fully optional, can only result in what we all just read ten pages of.
Click to expand...

You just wrote a summary that has nothing to do with what I posted about in my thread. Please don't write in summary if your not actually attempting to summarize this threads topic, its misleading to people that haven't spent the time to read it all.
 
Vadio said:
For real dont see any thing here can be consider harass
if someone realy play old stly games (ultima online , lineage 2 or something more hardcore pvp) know about safezone pvp , you can sit out safezon and wait you target many time you want , target run back to safezone to prevent get killed and looted and is going happen over hours in cases , special if you carry on valuable things (remid in entropia a joke since you can logoff with loot and dont matter) and its not consider harass

Harass usual consider if you killed one guy and keep kill same guy even you looted his multiple time in short timeframe (usual 10min) in this case he only delayed service because he want destroy kronan and kronan keep back to safe zone

Sorry mindark and pve paladins but guys are wrong its why i agree with someone in the post said remove space and put a tp with fee to hangar owners if you go do this kind crapy please dont make waste my time fly between empty space or useless content
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Just want to note that the classic workaround solution to safe zone camping is to put teleporters in every safe zone, allowing involuntary participants in pvp to teleport to a different safe zone and work from there without their camper knowing where they went. This is not the case in EU Space, which is one primary reason Space isn't working out.
 
Xane said:
Four Pirates including my self attacked and almost destroyed the Kronan on 2016-08-24 at calypso space station.

They ran into the safe zone before we could completely destroy and loot them. After several more attempts they continued to run back into the safe zone before being destroyed. 15 minutes of battling wasted.
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Ok, Kronan was too strong for you. You didnt collect the strength upfront.

Xane said:
We decided that the best way to take them down would be by launching a warp mine to bring them out of warp farther away from the safezones. So I sent my crew out to the warp gate to drop the mine and wait for them. I of course had to hold them from warping while my crew got into position and drop the warp mine. Once they had deployed the warp mine I disengaged the Kronan and joined my fellow Pirates for the slaughter. This probably took five minutes.
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Ok, you were pissed cause Kronan was too strong for you. Its legal to seek safe harbor during battle if life is at stake.

Xane said:
Fast forward two days later my account is locked for disrupting their warp drive!

I don't understand why all these space PVP game mechanics are even in the game, each time I get banned I find a new way we are not allowed to use them.

The reason support gave me for locking my account was "without the intention to PVP"!!

Four pirates shooting non stop four 10 minutes while they keep running into the safe zone, that's not PVP intention!?!?!

Dropping a warp mines to bring them out of warp and loot them, that's not PVP intention?!?!

Give me a break, if anyone had any dreams of some epic space battles those dreams are being eroded. Logout all by itself has almost completely removed any intensive pirates would have to attacked a Mothership. Now we can't even do it for fun or else risk getting banned.
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You didnt tolerate that you lost. Next time gather a larger force and go for the mine initially. Dont waste lot of players time.
 
"You're a pirate, therefore one of the lowest pieces of shit in game, and have the morals of a diseased whore, so who gives a damn if you're upset??

Only a true low life would try and weasel around rules of good conduct and gamesmanship."
Click to expand...
Xane said:
Why virtually none of the "good" people in the game step up and reprimand this kind of talk. It's like most people are either afraid or don't care to get involved.
Click to expand...
Because people in that state don't even hear feedback about that type of conduct, let alone respond to it. All we can really do is continue about our business and let them fall off their barstools... :rolleyes:

Ostracize the act, not the individual who did it.

EDITED because, to be fair, I chose the wrong example to cite. The point about good conduct and gamesmanship is an excellent one. Here is a much better example of someone who is too impaired to hear any feedback we might offer:
so you are saying you got warned over a year ago and still did take the risk of getting banned AND got banned now... surprising

also micjack is one of the biggest dicks in history of the earth. everyone accompaning him is rated low level scum. he is one of the main reasons why pirates are viewed as shitbags. big exploiter and cheater.
Click to expand...
Someone who is in the state demonstrated by the latter quote is not able to hear and respond when admonished. One can waste time trying, in which case bystanders may or may not benefit from one's efforts; or one can just move on and try to focus the conversation on its pith.

I don't like piracy. I don't like the existence of piracy nor the reasons it exists. But gamesmanship and sportsmanship, as principles, are more important. Let's all try to approach this from sanity.
 
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Xane said:
Let's not pretend that this a rampant issue. There are only two scenarios in which people get shot down twice in a short time frame. 1. Accidentally 2. You have talked so much shit that a pirate is willing to waste peds shooting you down again knowing that your empty. My point is this is a rare occurrence.
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Have to cross #2 off that list of viable reasons. If you can't take the heat, stay out of pvp. This goes for ability to hear what your opponent has to say, without harassing them for it, too.
 
Lefty said:
Just want to note that the classic workaround solution to safe zone camping is to put teleporters in every safe zone, allowing involuntary participants in pvp to teleport to a different safe zone and work from there without their camper knowing where they went. This is not the case in EU Space, which is one primary reason Space isn't working out.
Click to expand...

Off topic but what the hell...that's not a good solution as it would undermine the entire space travel industry.

I'll tell you a little know fact about space PVP, the individuals that scream the loudest most hateful things after being killed and overwhelmingly the ones that weren't carrying anything lootable to begin with. They literally at time are wishing you and your family death by cancer because you delayed them a couple minutes. Even though they would in some cases rather fly solo for 45 minutes as opposed to a couple minutes in warp flight.

So I came up with a simple solution which I submitted to MA that should make everyone happy. Implement a loot scanner, if you are carrying loot it say so and if your empty it says that. Immediately after implementation no one that's just trying to get from point A to point B without goods is stopped. Those that chose to smuggle know and accept the risks in almost all cases, as evidence when they say GZ after looting them, are the only one targeted.
 
Whenever you are in a Quad, MS, or Privateer in space, risk is part of the game...

Two things in mind. :wise:

1. Pirates in space adds realism to the game.
2. Pirates help us increase our space related skills, including repair.
 
Lefty said:
Have to cross #2 off that list of viable reasons. If you can't take the heat, stay out of pvp. This goes for ability to hear what your opponent has to say, without harassing them for it, too.
Click to expand...

This is something you should never say to a pirate. No other faction of players has heard the type extreme vile hate that gets said to us on a daily. 95% of it rolls off the back, we even learn to laugh about it. But every now and then someone finds that one thing that gets you and so a little spanking is in order. I would love to show you want people message me in game but its on that other forum that can't be mentioned.
 
krazykat said:
Actually I'm amazed that you and Micjack thought that you could get any loot out of this. Kronan was on scheduled warp service run and at the point where you and your team attacked, there would have been no one with loot logged in onboard. Both you and Micjack have been in this a long time so you'd both know that so why was Micjack blathering on about how this non-existent loot be distributed?

Sorry, off topic here. Just puzzled is all :)
Click to expand...

This leaves one or both of two possible intents:
- To disrupt scheduled warp service;
- To force Kronan to pvp while traversing a pvp zone

Bias will influence guesses as to your intentions heavily.
 
So, OP and soc entered the engagement in question with intent to pvp in a pvp zone. Kronan entered the engagement with intent to provide transportation via scheduled warp service. Is Space intended as a ground for disrupting scheduled warps? Is warp capability intended as a way to circumvent pvp in a pvp zone?

The answer we need is a clear set of "rules of engagement", determined and stated by MindArk, and supported by new in-game mechanics.
 
Xane said:
Off topic but what the hell...that's not a good solution as it would undermine the entire space travel industry.
Click to expand...

I think space should have more entry points - and maybe several orbital stations with short-range tps that allow for more cat-and-mouse than at present maybe.
I like the idea of the loot scanner, which could be active automatically as part of the ident triangle or so. It would be more of a loot indicator than scanner that way I guess....

Not got more to add on topic either right now really, except to say that I hope support quickly looks at the extended picture and makes any new rules of conduct or their interpretations clearly available.
 
atomicstorm said:
I would think the pirate's activities were suspect if they were doing this every day, seemingly as they are, with the knowledge, because everyone knows, there isn't any payload here because it's a warp service.. except to grief or disrupt.
Click to expand...

../ or to coax a reluctant opponent into pvp while in a pvp zone *fauxshock* :laugh:
 
Lefty said:
So, OP and soc entered the engagement in question with intent to pvp in a pvp zone. Kronan entered the engagement with intent to provide transportation via scheduled warp service. Is Space intended as a ground for disrupting scheduled warps? Is warp capability intended as a way to circumvent pvp in a pvp zone?

The answer we need is a clear set of "rules of engagement", determined and stated by MindArk, and supported by new in-game mechanics.
Click to expand...

Well, the space mines specifically take ships OUT of warp, so warp capability can't really be seen as MA's way of allowing pvp circumvention (unless warp gates and mines were added as an afterthought without actually thinking about it much).
On the subject of disrupting scheduled warps, MA could of course program in various solutions.... but they haven't over a very long period of time now.
 
Dave Adama said:
Whenever you are in a Quad, MS, or Privateer in space, risk is part of the game...

Two things in mind. :wise:

1. Pirates in space adds realism to the game.
2. Pirates help us increase our space related skills, including repair.
Click to expand...
... When my objective is to move my avatar from one planet to another, I really could not care less about either of those things. If I want to go play Space, be it pve and/or pvp, that's one thing. But I'm almost always up there ONLY to move between two planets. I know this is the position of a great many people, and I would not be surprised if it were the most common use of Space.

Space for Space' sake would be fun. I wish Space could offer gameplay worth the time involved in finding said gameplay. It doesn't.
 
The sole reason I would use a warp is because I lack time to go in a quad. The argument that pirates serve a purpose is flawed. There are plenty of ways to distribute goods across space without ever entering space. Pirates contribute nothing. Leeches.
They are the black fly in your Chardonnay.
 
Xane said:
Off topic but what the hell...that's not a good solution as it would undermine the entire space travel industry.

I'll tell you a little know fact about space PVP, the individuals that scream the loudest most hateful things after being killed and overwhelmingly the ones that weren't carrying anything lootable to begin with. They literally at time are wishing you and your family death by cancer because you delayed them a couple minutes. Even though they would in some cases rather fly solo for 45 minutes as opposed to a couple minutes in warp flight.

So I came up with a simple solution which I submitted to MA that should make everyone happy. Implement a loot scanner, if you are carrying loot it say so and if your empty it says that. Immediately after implementation no one that's just trying to get from point A to point B without goods is stopped. Those that chose to smuggle know and accept the risks in almost all cases, as evidence when they say GZ after looting them, are the only one targeted.
Click to expand...
One possible variation on your suggestion would be to make Space optional when travelling between planets, but mandatory when moving loot between planets.
 
Lefty said:
One possible variation on your suggestion would be to make Space optional when travelling between planets, but mandatory when moving loot between planets.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea
 
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