Space PVP War!

Lefty said:

One possible variation on your suggestion would be to make Space optional when travelling between planets, but mandatory when moving loot between planets.

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That sounds good to.

Xane said:

This is something you should never say to a pirate. No other faction of players has heard the type extreme vile hate that gets said to us on a daily. 95% of it rolls off the back, we even learn to laugh about it. But every now and then someone finds that one thing that gets you and so a little spanking is in order. I would love to show you want people message me in game but its on that other forum that can't be mentioned.

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The notion that "spanking" some newcomer who has not offered you a fight, does not realize that honest self expression will be understood by you as offering a fight, and expresses his/her self honestly after discovering the realities of pvp - that notion gives a rather keen peek at a lot of what the human species is getting wrong in general, in real life. But that's far from the topic of the game. But on the third hand, it influences how we all play enough that it's worth mentioning, and worth keeping in mind as we game.

Every junkyard owner knows that if you want a mean dog, you beat the puppy. While I can understand some degree of eagerness to train up new players to be worthwhile opponents for you in the future, I respectfully suggest that beating the puppy may not be the most effective way to get the game you want.

I've been on all 3 sides of planetside pvp: killer, dyer, bystander. When mouthiness happens, both sides see themselves as wronged. It falls on all experienced players to ignore mouthiness and get on with the business of playing the game. Not fun, but we're able, and they aren't yet. They will be.

OP asked for us all to offer a judgement as a community. Bearing in mind that our collective judgement, while informative, is not binding, here's my little bit of it:

From available information, OP is in the right.

Support appears to have followed a normal procedure in locking first and asking questions later. Here's why:

Manique said:

afaik if Ma sees some fundament to the case they lock to investigate.

It would make sense, imagine people that exploited the system with amp bugs and such, economical advantage
How silly would it be
"hey you gonna be banned for investigation, please be ready to ditch all so we can lock"

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The real problem with space is it is still half implemented.

Eve has consequences for the bad guys, they go into 'good space' they get police ships on their back and if they commit crimes near space stations, the space stations start shooting at them, and woe betide them if they try to dock.

None of this currently exists in Entropia, although there are some signs that MA are doing something about reputation in-game, so being a bad guy may cause you difficulties (here's an idea - planet bound gun turrets start filling you full of holes for 24 hours after pirating in space or making you lootable anywhere )

As to the lock, maybe MA support finally noticed 1000 unread "exploit" support cases they hadn't spotted before - who knows?

One wants to be careful saying "it is only a pirate who cares what happens to them they deserve whatever bad thing happens to them"

When one says such things you are vulnerable to slippage of values or none at all. Is it okay to have one set of rules for those you approve of and a different set for people you dont like? In real life many nations throughout world do guarantee basic rights for all people including the worst of society. That means though someone may be incarcerated for a terrible crime they have rights to be fed, given medical care, to be treated humanely.

It may be true you dont own the currency itself the government prints but this is not same as in Entropia Universe. When you go into space or planetary lootable pvp you expressly give permission to be looted of your stackables. Furthermore if you dont want to be looted it is avoided by not bringing your lootable stuff into space or planet lootable zones.

Unfortunately as hard as some may find this to believe there are people who do find it preferable to send support cases to Mind Ark rather than to fight. Why such people would own and operate a warpship through space pvp? It really is cheaper to file a support case then to properly compensate your crew for defending your ship. What is frustrating about this is Mind Ark has to pay employees to read and respond to these questionable support cases.


Thank you Xane for bringing this issue to light.
Lets have an honest discussion about do we want human rights for all or only just those of whom we approve.
In case anyone is curious there was a time the pirates profited off me handsomely because i would forget to put into storage items i had won in auction. it would not be unusual for me to lose hundreds of ped in one shot in this way. I am more careful now to check and make sure i dont have loot.


It has been noted by one respondent to this thread that it is normal to lock accounts while investigation is underway. So my question is why is it only one account in this dispute was locked? I can tell you who would never file bogus support cases ever again if both sides were locked until resolution lololol.


Also ban hammer expected to be lowered in event of several players putting in support cases. This has been greatly cheapened by the tactic of scripts being handed out to members of organization coupled with strong encouragement to send in support cases to bolster strength of complaint against their target. It is a dirty trick used to make a case seem more real. Exagerations and lies are added for extra effect. Tears and wails of ruined gameplay are sprinkled throughout.


ZPF i have never seen the movies you referance. You mention idea of a state making all actions legal for 24 hours. Though inconvenient and constraining a player in Entropia Universe can opt out of pvp by not going in toxic zones on planets and by not travelling in pvp space. In the scenario you present do people have the option to avoid the "anything is permissable" zones?
I do agree with your statement "just because you can, does not mean you should"


It is mentioned that Xane is targeting and harassing only one ship. He could not be a pirate if he were only attacking one ship that is too heavily fortified to provide loot. As mentioned elsewhere he is a pirate so is attacking more then just one ship


I agree with Lefty. Lets approach this from a sane perspective instead of knee jerk hysterical reaction.
In my history in this game I have seen people do things they would not normally do because in their mind "this person is an asshole they deserve it"

You are only as moral as your lowest act.

Xane said:

This is something you should never say to a pirate. No other faction of players has heard the type extreme vile hate that gets said to us on a daily. 95% of it rolls off the back, we even learn to laugh about it. But every now and then someone finds that one thing that gets you and so a little spanking is in order. I would love to show you want people message me in game but its on that other forum that can't be mentioned.

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I can agree with you there. People take things a bit too far and at the end of the day, we are all humans behind the keyboard.

Yoshii Lem said:

It has been noted by one respondent to this thread that it is normal to lock accounts while investigation is underway. So my question is why is it only one account in this dispute was locked? I can tell you who would never file bogus support cases ever again if both sides were locked until resolution lololol.

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Exactly, and why is it some people say account locking while investigating isn't a punishment? I consider it a punishment, for the days or weeks that it's going to take support to unlock my account, that I cannot play the game or interact with my friends.

Also every example giving as to why it's a good idea to lock an account while conducting an investigation were fundamentally different from this situation. What would have been the potential consequences of leaving my account active long enough to ask me my side of the story about a space battle that took place days earlier? It literally took me 5 minutes to provide support all the evidence needed to see that we had dropped a warp mine with the intentions of attacking the MS.

Instead no questions are asked of me and no communications are initiated from support regarding this matter. I'm left to initiate contact with support inquiring what's going on? Then 24 hours later I'm given a very brief and contradictory reason for why my account is locked. Then I do the 5 minutes of investigative work for them and provide the logs proving I violated no rules. Now it's 48 hours later and probably will be another 48 hours before any other responses come back from support.

I can't help but feel that the way this entire case is being handled is deliberate specifically because of the MS that made the accusations and specifically because it benefits them. This is of course my opinion(albeit not solely mine) based on the fact that I've been down this road before.

Why do you come here acting like a victim? You have been harassing people for ages. Karma is a bitch.

Why dont pirates keep track of who you attack that NEVER have cargo on them in space?

My quad wing has been personally attacked by you Xane at least 8 times and now it has been taking two pirates to shoot me down. After 8 attacks on my ship in the last month and the useless loss of your weapon cells, why do pirates like you keep attacking quad wings that after 8x you know will not have cargo for you to loot? I never had loot on me when I fly in my quad wing and Im tired of constantly expecting an unwanted delay for no good reason because of pirates avarice and greed to get loot they didn't earn in the first place.

FYI, there have been problems with warp drive ships where someone would get on one ship and when departing that ship, end up somehow how actually leaving another ship they never boarded. This may be the answer...it is only speculation...if a ship is blown up enough, it gets quirky in how well it functions. In regards to what I just posted, that person ended up leaving the Kronan when they never boarded that ship and fly straight into the Arkadia training ground mobs...totally messed up the repairing route for the Kronan not to mention how much problems it caused their nonplussed departer. If you attack ships in unorthodox ways, it is very like to have unorthodox problems result.

Just some thought to consider when you and the pirates decide to be creative.

Princess Zarnia said:

My quad wing has been personally attacked by you Xane at least 8 times and now it has been taking two pirates to shoot me down. After 8 attacks on my ship in the last month and the useless loss of your weapon cells, why do pirates like you keep attacking quad wings that after 8x you know will not have cargo for you to loot? I never had loot on me when I fly in my quad wing and Im tired of constantly expecting an unwanted delay for no good reason because of pirates avarice and greed to get loot they didn't earn in the first place.

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Because the one time someone ignores you, is the time that you forget to empty your inventory.

Personally I forgot to take my eomon samples and output amps out. Got shot down. Whoever it was scored an easy--what? 300 ped...400 ped worth of my goods for my own stupidity.

Needless to say I didn't go off on them. Simply took a break from the game as I don't enjoy someone sticking their fingers into my pocket for a trip to FOMA.

If pirates keep getting locked out for being pirates of course they will get very creative to keep on being pirates (which is specific feature profession Mind Ark deliberately implemented)
That a player can get someone locked out for being a legal profession in Mind Ark should raise alarm. You may not want to defend Xane but if everyone who gets hurt you dont stand up for "becuase it does not hurt me" is nobody left to stand for you when it is your turn to be ground down by a teacher's pet who refuse to put on their big people pants when they get mad or offended. Because they run to teacher first with tears and get their friends to tell same story well guess what teacher tends to the crying baby first before anything else.

Warpships bugging out because something in code not working correct is not fault of anyone unless they know about the bug, have not reported it and use to gain advantage over other players. If you know of bugs that are affected by pirates being pirates give Xane benefit of doubt and pass along to him the information you have and to Mind Ark as well.

One can have sympathy for the anger of someone who get looted. Perhaps it would be better for blood pressure of pirates to make distinction between new player who is easily confused and has lost their stuff and someone more seasoned who is well versed in risks of game play. Save the spanking for those who should know better and let the new player vent. I myself on one occasion was so offensive in my comments it got me 3 spankings lololol. But I did not mind had already been playing for years and knew the risks.

Xane said:

This is something you should never say to a pirate. No other faction of players has heard the type extreme vile hate that gets said to us on a daily.

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And you cannot and should not ever tell other people what they can or cannot say. As stated above, the social backlash is part and parcel of the role you chose. You can react likewise and be hurt and cry, this is only human. But you will not make them stop unless you stop yourself. That it's a legitimate role to take in this game doesn't mean it won't have consequences, and here I'm repeating myself now since it's obviously not sinking in.

Velum said:

Because the one time someone ignores you, is the time that you forget to empty your inventory.

Personally I forgot to take my eomon samples and output amps out. Got shot down. Whoever it was scored an easy--what? 300 ped...400 ped worth of my goods for my own stupidity.

Needless to say I didn't go off on them. Simply took a break from the game as I don't enjoy someone sticking their fingers into my pocket for a trip to FOMA.

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Yeah that was me, earlier this week right? As I recall you congratulated me and confessed as you just did that you had forgot about those items and it was your own fault. Had I not landed every shot you would have made it into foma, It's not as easy as some like to compare pirating to shooting fish in a barrel.

Interesting Thread
You know what would make it even more interesting Arrrr!
http://www.talklikeapirate.com/howto.html

San said:

And you cannot and should not ever tell other people what they can or cannot say. As stated above, the social backlash is part and parcel of the role you chose. You can react likewise and be hurt and cry, this is only human. But you will not make them stop unless you stop yourself. That it's a legitimate role to take in this game doesn't mean it won't have consequences, and here I'm repeating myself now since it's obviously not sinking in.

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IRONY ALERT

OMG I didn't tell him what he can or cannot say, I told him that he shouldn't say this and then I went on to explain why. My point was pirates let way more roll off our backs then anyone realizes and it takes a lot to trigger a second attack. You pretty much have to be asking for it for it to happen again is my point. So for him to say that I need the ability to listen to what my opponents has to say without me taking action against it is silly, no I don't need to do that and I will chose when I do and don't want to attack someone.

Xane said:

IRONY ALERT

OMG I didn't tell him what he can or cannot say, I told him that he shouldn't say this and then I went on to explain why. My point was pirates let way more roll off our backs then anyone realizes and it takes a lot to trigger a second attack. You pretty much have to be asking for it for it to happen again is my point. So for him to say that I need the ability to listen to what my opponents has to say without me taking action against it is silly, no I don't need to do that and I will chose when I do and don't want to attack someone.

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i call big bullshit. i have never seen a pirate ignore anyway cos of any reason.
Why doesnt MA just make Areas with PVP enabled like training grounds or special zones like its the case planetside as well.
And if you like PVP that much why dont you go play in PVP 4 withotu the risk of getting banned? Maybe because you dont have the peds to buy actual PVP equipment? MA could just add different space weapons with higher skills needed. the weapon now has a lot of damage and should be something like level 60-80 ish. lowlife pirates with lowlife skills / equip wouldnt be able to shoot down a mothership instantly after becoming a pirate. its the only "profession" without a steep curve in regards to skills needed and equipment needed.
Maybe MA should just add a few more space weapons / ships / space ship armors for crafting and remove the space weapons we got now. That would create an actual profession with progression needs to be able to compete in pvp AND it would also help the crafting profession and thereby mining and hunting as well.
One could also add like vehicle steering skills where you can only drive a normal car at start and then later helicopters and then some time with higher skills finally vtols. That would create more use for Warp services / taxis if not everyone instantly can use vtols easily.

Me Really Never said:

i call big bullshit. i have never seen a pirate ignore anyway cos of any reason.

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That's a really ignorant thing to say, to call what I said bullshit just because you've never seen it? Especially when your knowledge is this areas is what a dozen interaction with pirates ever? Is it possible I know way more then you in this area?


UDPATE: My account is still locked and I still haven't heard back from support after submitting to them the logs that prove we were dropping a warp mine.

Xane said:

That's a really ignorant thing to say, to call what I said bullshit just because you've never seen it? Especially when your knowledge is this areas is what a dozen interaction with pirates ever? Is it possible I know way more then you in this area?


UDPATE: My account is still locked and I still haven't heard back from support after submitting to them the logs that prove we were dropping a warp mine.

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i honestly dont give a single shit though about the knowledge of a buguser / exploiter / cheater.

Me Really Never said:

i honestly dont give a single shit though about the knowledge of a buguser / exploiter / cheater.

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Then why do you take the time to comment on the things I'm speaking about?

Xane said:

Then why do you take the time to comment on the things I'm speaking about?

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cos i dont like people who exploit to leech money off the community?

Me Really Never said:

cos i dont like people who exploit to leech money off the community?

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LOL why did you put a question mark at the end? Are you not sure? If your asking me if I exploit to leech off the community then my answer is no...no I do not.

Every Pirate should get locked at least once a week, just because they are Pirates!!!
Never ever got lootables with me, but they are just annoying !!!
Schooting ppl down by exploiting the System for years and now crying?

Proffession:
Hunting= legal IRL
Crafting= legal IRL
Mining= legal IRL
Pirating= illegal IRL

Why should it be in EU legal?
IRL they get punished for beeing Pirates, so they should in EU too!!!

I claim a Jail for them..... 1 Kill = 1 Day in Jail

Xane said:

Yeah that was me, earlier this week right? As I recall you congratulated me and confessed as you just did that you had forgot about those items and it was your own fault. Had I not landed every shot you would have made it into foma, It's not as easy as some like to compare pirating to shooting fish in a barrel.

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Ah yes, the typical pirate mantra.

"This takes so much skill, none of you understand!!! I am a super skilled galactic space marksmen and I deserve this loot because of my superior accuracy and profound mastery of 'point and shoot'"!!!!

Xane said:

LOL why did you put a question mark at the end? Are you not sure? If your asking me if I exploit to leech off the community then my answer is no...no I do not.

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maybe you dont know this yet but it is called a rhetorical question. uneducated pirates. at least he fits into his role. and i am like 99,99% sure that you use at least the map speed exploit as ANY other pirate does too.so your ban is well deserved.

Xane said:

Four Pirates including my self attacked and almost destroyed the Kronan on 2016-08-24 at calypso space station.

They ran into the safe zone before we could completely destroy and loot them. After several more attempts they continued to run back into the safe zone before being destroyed. 15 minutes of battling wasted.

We decided that the best way to take them down would be by launching a warp mine to bring them out of warp farther away from the safezones. So I sent my crew out to the warp gate to drop the mine and wait for them. I of course had to hold them from warping while my crew got into position and drop the warp mine. Once they had deployed the warp mine I disengaged the Kronan and joined my fellow Pirates for the slaughter. This probably took five minutes.

Fast forward two days later my account is locked for disrupting their warp drive!

I don't understand why all these space PVP game mechanics are even in the game, each time I get banned I find a new way we are not allowed to use them.

The reason support gave me for locking my account was "without the intention to PVP"!!

Four pirates shooting non stop four 10 minutes while they keep running into the safe zone, that's not PVP intention!?!?!

Dropping a warp mines to bring them out of warp and loot them, that's not PVP intention?!?!

Give me a break, if anyone had any dreams of some epic space battles those dreams are being eroded. Logout all by itself has almost completely removed any intensive pirates would have to attacked a Mothership. Now we can't even do it for fun or else risk getting banned.

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If this is true, than ma should apologize, by interfacing to game.
and for people who blame "pirate" as profession and karma holder, i suggest to look to situation itself

This time "pirates" was right.

//mg

Grave Digger said:

Every Pirate should get locked at least once a week, just because they are Pirates!!!
Never ever got lootables with me, but they are just annoying !!!
Schooting ppl down by exploiting the System for years and now crying?

Proffession:
Hunting= legal IRL
Crafting= legal IRL
Mining= legal IRL
Pirating= illegal IRL

Why should it be in EU legal?
IRL they get punished for beeing Pirates, so they should in EU too!!!

I claim a Jail for them..... 1 Kill = 1 Day in Jail

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you should be locked in jail because you was a part of destroying all eomon (animal kind) , and made them to become extinct )

ZPF said:

The point is in both situations the player(s) are being specifically targetted and constantly engaged by another player(s) relentlessly. You could have simply found someone else to shoot at, but you didn't.

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if you have a team that has a purpose to take down biggest ship in eu, why need to change it to other objective?

i would gratz them even because they made a try at least.

i bet it was hell of a fun just ending both sides had to say "gg" and spread out.


//mg

matthew said:

I really like the sound of space battles and the one you talk about seems epic, but engaging in them should be optional for all parties involved.

By making the attack you are ruining the enjoyment of another participant who is trying to innocently travel to another part of the universe, which is (arguably) against the EULA.

I can't see how any pirate can make an attack without breaking this...

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pvp zone is made for this, pirates should be part of game that holds people from free traveling ,. that is why every planet economics is different, and materials cost different.

OZtwo said:

"I was robbed in a bank. Please it's not me that turned into the bank robber but the system."

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this is game, not a real life, people come to play game to do stuff where they cant do in real life because of laws.

remember GTA

mg Joda VVV said:

this is game, not a real life, people come to play game to do stuff where they cant do in real life because of laws.

remember GTA

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GTA doesnt have a real cash economy though... and also... this is not GTA is it?