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Loot seems a little bad but I am wondering about the return of "This mob carried no loot"

C

CozMoDan

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Herco Coz Mann
It has been awful the last day or two on loot for me but the "carried no loot" has me wondering. I have got that message more the last couple of days than I have had in a long, long time. I still get the frags which I don't like but no biggie but this N/L thing has me a bit worried. I wonder if MA has made a major change in the loot structure.
 
Even if they did, loot will stay the same over the long term
 
Two all time highs are due this weekend.

One will be on Dasp and other within Mining, most likely going to me.
 
Perception, perception. I don't pay attention to all these messages, fragments etc, only look at the long term results, and those are pretty persistent.
 
Svarog said:
Perception, perception. I don't pay attention to all these messages, fragments etc, only look at the long term results, and those are pretty persistent.
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I agree, I am doing my Kerb level 4 hunting young/mature/old and last night I sat down for an hour to hunt them.
killed 267 mobs and 50 of them were non-looters...no globals (not surprised) either but a few mini's. End result...97% return on my cost for that run....not including any MU as I will sort out MU once I have finished the mission (need the high quantity for mats to sell). So again perception...a lot of non-looters and many doing multiple evades and still managed to get a decent return, even though I thought for sure I was doomed.
 
It's unlikely any greater or less than it has been, but the mind perceives patterns when it looks for them. You're in a downswing in your loot cycle and you're looking for an explanation, so you're probably noticing them more.
 
It seems like I have noticed a few more no loots here lately but if it brings back bigger HOFs for smaller creature' s I am all for it.

I am still waiting on my 5 digit Hof
 
mofastman said:
It seems like I have noticed a few more no loots here lately but if it brings back bigger HOFs for smaller creature' s I am all for it.

I am still waiting on my 5 digit Hof
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I agree, I liked the old way of N/L and bigger HOFs. For the other replies I do understand the long haul and I have had these days before but without the N/?s, just more frags. That was the only point I wanted to make. Oh and BTW I did almost mention, as you did about the bigger HOFs :).
 
Noting changed at me. Always getting 50-60% payback in 9 of 10 hunt runs. Since more as 2 months. Thats why i play less and less, and the day is in sight, where i stop to play, if noting change at this sad loot system. It feels to greedy!
 
trance said:
Noting changed at me. Always getting 50-60% payback in 9 of 10 hunt runs. Since more as 2 months. Thats why i play less and less, and the day is in sight, where i stop to play, if noting change at this sad loot system. It feels to greedy!
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Ahhh... the 50% returns... that im yet to see any proof (=log) of not just made up numbers
 
Piotr said:
Ahhh... the 50% returns... that im yet to see any proof (=log) of not just made up numbers
Click to expand...


Yeah, I know that :D Meet a guy who whas complaining that he get like 40% misses, cyring that he had 50% returns. We advice him to install tracker and send us logs to prove that he go to much misses. Ask him to take the invite to the team to see his loot when he is on hunt. And guess what? :D He was explaining that he dont know how to install tracker and will not go to team with us because his loot will be worst than now it is :D

One Big Bullshit :)
 
Svarog said:
Perception, perception. I don't pay attention to all these messages, fragments etc, only look at the long term results, and those are pretty persistent.
Click to expand...

^^^ What he said in my opinion. I add up my peds and inventory at the end of the month. It has been steady with some positive surprises since I started serious hunting. I think if I tried that daily or per run it would ruin the fun for me.
 
Iceman2003 said:
Yeah, I know that :D Meet a guy who whas complaining that he get like 40% misses, cyring that he had 50% returns. We advice him to install tracker and send us logs to prove that he go to much misses. Ask him to take the invite to the team to see his loot when he is on hunt. And guess what? :D He was explaining that he dont know how to install tracker and will not go to team with us because his loot will be worst than now it is :D

One Big Bullshit :)
Click to expand...

To be fair, the game has been rough this last week or so, but in the long term, yes, it's impossible to get 50% returns unless you're wandering into PVP and shooting every other shot into the sky.
 
Just to say, i'm not alone getting such bad. Believe me or not, thats your problem, but i see how fast my money go away. This was way better some years ago.
 
Piotr said:
Ahhh... the 50% returns... that im yet to see any proof (=log) of not just made up numbers
Click to expand...

I had a stream on Scipulars that was 44% return, was posted here in forum, and link given.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...return-on-hunting/page2&p=3462238#post3462238

Links expired now tho, as I never bothered to keep it.
FYI was the daily mission, 100 killed only, to have carried on would have wiped my ped card.

For those that say 50% return is impossible, just because it's not happened to you, does not mean it's not happened to others. This was pure tt return, the decay I class as another loss, that's to be expected.

Edit
I'm not a believer either, of, oh, you should try killing 200, 400, 800 and loot will balance itself out.
 
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StarGlider said:
I had a stream on Scipulars that was around the 50% return, was posted here in forum, and link given.
Links expired now tho, as I never bothered to keep it.
FYI was the daily mission, 100 killed only, to have carried on would have wiped my ped card.

For those that say 50% return is impossible, just because it's not happened to you, does not mean it's not happened to others. This was pure tt return, the decay I class as another loss, that's to be expected.

Edit
I'm not a believer either, of, oh, you should try killing 200, 400, 800 and loot will balance itself out.
Click to expand...

I killed one mob once and it was a no-looter. If I'd have done another 1000 mobs and they had the same returns, it would've wiped my ped card. Absolutely horrible loot, it was never like this in the past.

0% returns confirmed, sky is falling, MA are 1 day from bankruptcy.
 
Aio said:
I killed one mob once and it was a no-looter. If I'd have done another 1000 mobs and they had the same returns, it would've wiped my ped card. Absolutely horrible loot, it was never like this in the past.

0% returns confirmed, sky is falling, MA are 1 day from bankruptcy.
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Odd, not one of those scips was a no looter.
Not one of them had more than 3 ped in loot either.

Just please don't post saying it's impossible to get 50% loot, when in fact it's possible to get even lower.
 
StarGlider said:
Odd, not one of those scips was a no looter.
Not one of them had more than 3 ped in loot either.

Just please don't post saying it's impossible to get 50% loot, when in fact it's possible to get even lower.
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I don't even know where to begin.
 
I had some decent runs during summer but the bad hunting runs were persistent for very very long and often.
Already stopped for now and I'm consider my future in this game. Maybe 90% return it is for some ppl verified but for me isn't ( and it is for for about a year now). I know some what they gonna say (need more eco setup, hunt another mob etc) I think for me isn't just this.
Making this game hard to survive financial or very very expensive for individuals in favor of shared looters (sometime freeloaders) or for advertising events, it's bad strategy and it will be "paid back" soon with many quits.


edit: ofc I'm not talking for 50% returns here! But 70%-80% is still bad when MU is so low and you can't break even!!!! even if you are realy smart trader :) 90% of your loot become TT food most of the time if you wan't to keep hunt by recycling your PED's.
 
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shoti said:
Funny how some can be sure about uncertain things. Especially proven wrong in the past.
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Proven where? Anyhow, some can be 'sure' as they have played the game, tested things and not stopped playing after 30 mins (thats how much time 100 mobs takes for me) and saying loot will be same all the time :D
 
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You said it "will" stay same with surnes of MA owner or at least loot formula programmer. In fact loot was changed so much in the past that any tests that are not recent can't prove anything right now. It takes more time to test properly anything than changing it overnight by MA.
 
shoti said:
You said it "will" stay same with surnes of MA owner or at least loot formula programmer. In fact loot was changed so much in the past that any tests that are not recent can't prove anything right now. It takes more time to test properly anything than changing it overnight by MA.
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AFAIK loot hasnt been changed (TT return wise), only volatily wise (or whoever its spelled). Now with buffs some ppl gets better returns some gets worse but from MA point, loot is same, how its distributed is what changed
 
Piotr said:
AFAIK loot hasnt been changed (TT return wise), only volatily wise (or whoever its spelled). Now with buffs some ppl gets better returns some gets worse but from MA point, loot is same, how its distributed is what changed
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Ya.

As far as I'm aware, the last loot changes were no looters (2004) and nova/blazar (first tiering, dunno when). Shrapnel is looted as if it were ammo. The returns logic is highly likely to be the same as inception.

It is counter intuitive for MA to "allow" 50% returns. If you go play any gambling game, the model is a steady loss (but not extreme) followed by perceived profit (hofs) which are far more than the cost to create the chance, but in the long term are not loss leaders.

The key dynamic of entropia is where the dpp floating point lies. Before, it was definitely below a vanilla imk2. Now I don't have a clue where this floating point lies but I'm sure a (non-MU based) profiting uber could point it out.
 
Aio said:
To be fair, the game has been rough this last week or so, but in the long term, yes, it's impossible to get 50% returns unless you're wandering into PVP and shooting every other shot into the sky.
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FYI personally I'm talking for 1000-10000 clicks on crafting (QR 80 to max)
as about my hunting runs I can predict my returns before even started

all are for 1 hour or more hunting ( I'm not such uber so it's more than enough for me )

200 PED run -> 130-140 PED returns
300 PED run -> 220-250 PED returns
500 PED run -> 380-420 PED returns

after 10 or so runs maybe a positive run it will come( +70 to +90) but that's it.
Decay not included (100-200 PED run mean I'm hunting low lvl mobs so I'm naked).
I'm not going to mention my "RT common Sundays loot" because those results can make a great number of you my fellow entropians, to take a loooong break if they experienced in long term.
For me all the above mean the "sinewave" for multiplier is a long straight line now with a very short pick like cardiogram. If you miss that pick you #$cked

I'm still playing because I keep trying until I find my pick :)

PS. as I said before i'm not talking about % returns, -50% it is very extreme number anyway.
 
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Piotr said:
AFAIK loot hasnt been changed (TT return wise), only volatily wise (or whoever its spelled). Now with buffs some ppl gets better returns some gets worse but from MA point, loot is same, how its distributed is what changed
Click to expand...

Aio said:
[...]
It is counter intuitive for MA to "allow" 50% returns. If you go play any gambling game, the model is a steady loss (but not extreme) followed by perceived profit (hofs) which are far more than the cost to create the chance, but in the long term are not loss leaders.
Click to expand...

I idin't mean diference visible from run to run , or between hunters with varius gear. I mean loot component in form on common factor for everyone, changed by MA over years. Like Aio said that "house cut" is changing. Worse MA results in annual report, greater next year cut. Basic components on quantity crafters noticed that clearly that 2013 and 2014 was real dip in such results. And i think crafting basic components is great indocator as you can make thousands of tries everyday on same bp actually for over 10 years now for small costs, and in comparison to mining or hunting you have greatly reduced many other factors playing roles in other profesions.


Aio said:
The key dynamic of entropia is where the dpp floating point lies. Before, it was definitely below a vanilla imk2. Now I don't have a clue where this floating point lies but I'm sure a (non-MU based) profiting uber could point it out.
Click to expand...

IF it is like most ppl feel it is , and i mean here moving average eco from somwhere 2,8 to over 2,9 now, then loot for average hunting joe changed. 2,8 and 2,9 is huge diference. And change will not be in quantity if goods received in loot but in cost to obtain it .
 
StarGlider said:
I had a stream on Scipulars that was 44% return, was posted here in forum, and link given.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...return-on-hunting/page2&p=3462238#post3462238

Links expired now tho, as I never bothered to keep it.
FYI was the daily mission, 100 killed only, to have carried on would have wiped my ped card.

For those that say 50% return is impossible, just because it's not happened to you, does not mean it's not happened to others. This was pure tt return, the decay I class as another loss, that's to be expected.

Edit
I'm not a believer either, of, oh, you should try killing 200, 400, 800 and loot will balance itself out.
Click to expand...

:lolup: law of large numbers?

try to kill 10000 and show me the 50% cycle return and I believe you :)
 
Nargon said:
:lolup: law of large numbers?

try to kill 10000 and show me the 50% cycle return and I believe you :)
Click to expand...

agree, on my log i have 1 (oratan) with over 1k kills sitting under 80% (78% to be precise), above 5k the lowest is 89% over 6k kills and average of 94% (over 5k kills only) it does balance in the end, all my 105%+ and 80%- are low number of kills and more volitile to the next hunt
 
Nargon said:
:lolup: law of large numbers?

try to kill 10000 and show me the 50% cycle return and I believe you :)
Click to expand...

Most people simply dont have the time to do 10k. They got work kids etc and by which time any money they have pumped or lost into a mob would be looong gone by the time they even do the 10k to = out.

Simply stating you need to do more is completely pointless if your doing a few a time. If anything my loot has been terrible doing short runs like these compared to long runs, hours on end, And to say otherwise oh you might still hit the = would imply theirs a personal loot pool which their aint. Theirs a reason why these people say you need to do more, means more money in their pocket as they got the time to squeeze the peds out the mob analyse entropia life for hot servers etc etc.
 
slick27 said:
Most people simply dont have the time to do 10k. They got work kids etc and by which time any money they have pumped or lost into a mob would be looong gone by the time they even do the 10k to = out.

Simply stating you need to do more is completely pointless if your doing a few a time. If anything my loot has been terrible doing short runs like these compared to long runs, hours on end, And to say otherwise oh you might still hit the = would imply theirs a personal loot pool which their aint. Theirs a reason why these people say you need to do more, means more money in their pocket as they got the time to squeeze the peds out the mob analyse entropia life for hot servers etc etc.
Click to expand...

I strongly believe there is just a RNG loot system. why would you as a developer invest so much time in a personal/wave/ whatever loot-system? you just need to ad RNG and some people start to believe in things they dont exist.
 
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